Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)

[Irysa]

Go with Bow Knight, mov bonuses are just seriously clutch, esp when she could galepair with Robin as well for a triple 9 mov. Deliverer would be cool but the lack of P.Falchion access kills it.

EDIT: Also, if you're doing this now, add recruiting every first gen char to the to-do list and get Tiki's paralogue done as well, since it's doable with Galeforce Robin, Morgan and Lucina, Olivia, and various rescue staffers. Although I suppose you'd have to blow a lot of extra money on rescue staves to hit the mag requirements via staff grinding on maps like Chapter 15 where you can just fly your staffbots over the water until the coast is clear and there's just the boss, then spam rescue forever.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Irysa

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, the original plan was to do all that minus Tiki, anyway. It just happened to be a yolo run with deaths that made it to the end first (and the more I think about it, the more I think yolo overall was more likely to get there first, anyway). I'll have to do some thinking about the whole Tiki thing because of the extra resource investment.

And since I give the Boots to Robin, that'd actually be 11->9->11 Move. >.>

Oh, so you're distributing exp now. When does the next run start?

Yeah, because the easy training method will help stabilize the run instead of giving it another significant point of vulnerability. As for when the the next runs will start, well, this is still theory. I mean, I've trained Lucy and Morgan enough to know it's pretty much going to be viable, but I want to still blitz a test run to make sure I'm not missing anything major involved in utilizing them in this particular run. Friday will involve routing C5 for sure, hopefully such that I can find a break-through, like I did with the two new C3 strats. I'll attempt to offline up to the end of C13, so that Sunday I can begin testing the new C14-P12-C15 sequence, but I can't really make any promises there, since this weekend is actually demanding my attention. Chances are I'll include Tuesday in routing to avoid rushing things (given the current length of the run, I'm still seriously considering having Tuesday as a dedicated practice/break game day), so... I'm probably looking at starting runs again May 1, 7PM PST.

[Cat1803]

I'd recommend Bow Knight unless Morgan's in dire need of Hero's +Def. +Mov is nice, as avoiding WTD/breaker whiffs. Bowbreaker is also neat if she spends time upfront - enemy Snipers tend to be annoyingly accurate regardless of Hawkeye, and Bowbreaker helps mitigate this beautifully.

Still working in C5. I think I'm actually coming close to multiple solutions depending on how Robin's stats are, but just when I think I have something reliable the enemies move differently than I expected them to.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Hmmm, yeah. I mean, Hero still avoids most of the important Breaker issues in that Axebreaker will generally let her keep Paralleling them (there's just a handful of Lance-using Wyvs in C24, IIRC) and then enemy Heroes get pretty rare, so she could just use axes otherwise. The +Mov is really doing a lot to sell me, though, since Morgan will only be a 6 Mov unit. I don't think Lucina will frontline very often if she's a Bow Knight (as a Hero would be a maybe), aside from to blast someone into the ground, Galeforce and then swap back to Morgan.

And yeah, that was my main issue with coming up with reliable C5 strats. I only have 3 arrangements that work because melee move randomly where they will often leave a 2-range tile open for Fred to get mauled from unless there's something like 6-7 enemies all trying to cram into the space. That's why I sometimes comment about that one Dark Mage bullying his allies into position, because the way he's manipulated, the melee have to move forward and fill those spots so that the Dark Mage can move his max movement. My general rule is to repeat it 10 times and if there's no issues, it's reliable. If the movement screws up once, then I do another 10 trials. If it's still only 1 mess-up after 20 trials, then I'm okay with that. Any more randomness and I toss the strat out.

[Knusperkeks]

My general rule is to repeat it 10 times and if there's no issues, it's reliable. If the movement screws up once, then I do another 10 trials. If it's still only 1 mess-up after 20 trials, then I'm okay with that. Any more randomness and I toss the strat out.

95% confidence interval?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I guess it's something like that, except I do it all helter-skelter and the sample size is tiny. Probably more like a "close enough, it'll have to do", though, since, while it's been a while, I think there's more to that analysis than what I'm doing. >.>

[Cat1803]

I'm throwing out the sniping-melee strat. It works ten times in a row and then doesn't five times in a row. I found my old notes from when I got it more consistently and I found the problem: my Robin was so Res-screwed that she, after reclassing to Merc and taking the Res hit, was a more desirable target than Fred as far as the Mages were concerned. This is really disappointing considering I thought I actually had something.

With this in mind, if the barbs attacking Fred aren't the scariest things ever, a similar situation could be manipulated by Fred taking Sumia for the +Res (her +Spd should help him dodge non-Hawkeye things too) and having Robin clear out some enemies at range until some Mages move in. I've had some success with this, but the main problem arises if the Barbs and Mages have high Hawkeye/Luna+ density. I might be able to spitball some ideas in the chat but what I thought was solid looks to be falling apart.

I'm finding a lot of C5 is "adjust based on the circumstances", but I haven't come up with anything solid to deal with high Luna+ density. The best I've been able to come up with is sending Robin in YOLO-mode with a crit-forge to distract (especially nice if Counter density is low), but she quickly becomes overwhelmed by Luna+ if it connects.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yikes, Robin's Res must've been really terrible, since Fred's got a whole base 3. Sucks that it didn't work out, though. And thanks for sharing your findings, anyway.

If Robin's Def is low enough, the melee will both tend to target her. If her Avoid is high enough and there's no Hawkeye/Luna+ combos, she tends to do all right (Lissa has her work cut out for her if Robin is facing two vanilla Hawkeye, though). Ironically, I have to hope Robin's Def stays below 15 overall, since scary Barbs targeting Fred are the real main run-ender. Because otherwise, his HP is so high that he can just face tank all day (provided Lissa's free to heal him).

One thing I'm thinking is moving the Bronze Sword I normally have Chrom (uselessly) holding to Fred. If Fred absolutely has to face a Luna+ Barb that also doesn't have Counter (or Hawkeye, I guess), he could equip the sword. At the very least, it would buy him a couple turns of extra Avoid before I need to pull it off again so he doesn't kill the barb. Or, in a more ideal scenario, the 15 Hit drop causes the Barb to decide Fred's not worth targeting and switches to attacking Robin.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

So Goombella!Robin can be a run killer, eh?This sounds crazy but if your getting insane level up's would delaying SS'ing to Dark Mage be a worthwhile look to deny a level or so? Or is Anathema that vital that she can't wait for it regardless of stats?

I was thinking perhaps in the middle of paralogue 1, as opposed to before. That is when you normally SS her, no? There's a point when enemies stop moving and you wouldn't deny Robin too too hard but still enough that it could matter.

Edited April 25, 2015 by AnUnculturedLittlePotato

[Czar_Yoshi]

It's not for Anathema, it's for getting the DF reclass in Par.4. Also not being a DM in Par.1 means no forged Flux which in turn means no Barb OHKOes, which means there's a much bigger chance for 1-range Counter to sink the run (or at least cost you the Killer Lance).

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Apologies, it's just I'm not sure what options even exist if we end up with another Goombella!Robin. Turtleing seems to be the only workable strat and if that can't work then I'm not sure what can be done. The only thing I can think of if we can't make robin less scary is to make Fred more scary but I'm not knowledgeable enough about the AI to know how that could go down. A Fred Sumia C/B might give him enough speed and res that the mages don't like him over robin but I dunno.
It's a toughie.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

The forged Flux actually doesn't OHKO Barbs. It helps me get an early foothold in the starting position if the nearest Barb has Aegis+ (since he can reach almost all the squishies). Two hits from it, plus Chrom Glass Sword Dual Striking will do enough damage to cut through. Bonus is that this will do the same if the Archer has Aegis+. On top of that, if Robin is doing poorly with Mag, it ensures kills on non-Aegis+ Barbs if Chrom is feeling lazy. However, if Robin is Mag-blessed, it is possible she will be one-shotting the Thieves.

As for Robin being too good sinking the run, no, it's not an automatic sinker. It makes things more risky, since the AI manipulation is dicier, but it's also possible to not need the AI manipulation. If Robin is strong enough and the AI is a bit short on Counter in their roster, it's possible for Robin to just plain fight them all as they come. A Sumia C with him might help, but it's doubtful. While 6 more Avoid is pretty significant at this point in the game, 4 more Res is only going to bring the Nos damage down to 14, while allowing a Luna+-less Barb to do 14. If the Barb has Luna+ and hits him, he's still done for. Even if the Barb doesn't have Luna+ and hits, though, the Elfire Mage won't be discouraged from roasting him.

At the moment, I think the best solution will be to try to have Robin fight it out with the enemy and if there's too much Counter and I absolutely have to turtle, I can swap Robin's and Fred's positions. It'll be really ugly when the Wyverns arrive, but it's still better than guaranteed death (and the most dangerous Wyv will home in on Vaike over Fred). Hopefully something more interesting will turn up during the stream, though.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Chapter 5 is looking more and more like it's very situationial, with the way to deal with it dependent on skill layout, skill amount, stat gains that you do and do not have, thresholds here there and everywhere. It's looking more and more like that and chapter 2 are the hardest chapters for this run considering how many things they rely on.

Edit: Not that I'm surprised, early game tends to be the hardest part but still quite shocking at how hard.

Edited April 25, 2015 by AnUnculturedLittlePotato

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Chapter 2 isn't as bad anymore with the new strat, but yeah, 5 is still pretty rough and I expected it to be that way from the start. Hilariously enough, I think I've lost more runs to freak bad luck in 6 than 5. Granted, it's usually 5 that puts 6 in such a terrible position. And actually, I think until the last routing session, 3 was in a better position to ruin the run than 2.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Speaking of C5 routing... http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, time to completely derail all the previous post-C13 routing with Pegasus Knight!Lucina shenanigans.http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Holy crap that Lucina and Morgan tho. Level 5 dark flier at chapter 14? Morgan a warrior at yenfey after going through Hero?
PS if you missed the chat shenanigans you missed the birth of a legend.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Hehe, yeah, training in P12 and C14, especially, ended up being way more lucrative than I thought. Tome-using Lucina being viable is probably the most hilarious part of it.

I do have some concerns about Chrom's offense, though. I think there shouldn't be a problem against Aegis+/Pavise+ enemies, but there might be when it comes to ones that Chrom won't be using effective weaponry against. This will largely come up with semi-beefy enemies like Heroes and Warriors in C20, C23 and C24. I considered making use of that C13 EXP that I left behind by promoting Chrom to Great Lord and then reclassing to Paladin later, but I've been crunching numbers and another 4 levels of stat gain is probably not worth giving up Outdoor Fighter. For Grima, Chrom only needs Str in the 31-33 range, so more levels is largely for extra hit. Outdoor Fighter gives him what's essentially 5 Skl and 5 Luk more of that. The aforementioned chapters may still be a problem, but I think I can make up for that with forges, if necessary. One big sticking point might be Validar if he gets an especially tanky build. With Morgan and Lucina present, though, I could possibly compensate by bringing Vengeance and being a bit less aggressive when fighting with Robin.

Oh, and Robin still being a Hero in C19 is a bit of a problem, but I think it's not as big a deal as I originally thought because of Chrom's arsenal of effective weaponry. Should easily get her to Dark Knight by C20, anyway. I won't have Lifetaker for C21, but I shouldn't need it. I can just move a little slower with Robin and Morgan cleaning up the Counter enemies more methodically.

And yeah, I saw some of the stuff surrounding the impromptu fanfic, but I couldn't keep up with too much of the details. I hope you guys will keep me posted.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

What about SS on chrom and grab the one in Morgan's chapter for Luci then chapter 14 for morgan?
And to think it all started by me accidentally mentioning Stahl!Luci.

Edited April 27, 2015 by AnUnculturedLittlePotato

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Stahl!Lucina? How did that come about? >.>

I considered that, but I don't think know if Lucina's Str will be high enough without Morgan's Fighter pair-up bonus. With a tonic, it was 1 point of overkill, but Tactician will provide 2 less. Morgan needs to work on his Axe rank too. What I might try to do is give Chrom a few of the C14 kills to get him to 10 quicker. As long as Morgan also gets to 10, it should be fine (I might need to try harder to get more P12 EXP into the kids).

[Czar_Yoshi]

That would push Robin into Hero during Cht.20. Getting Hero over with is probably more important than Chrom.

Especially since with two more combat-capable units, Chrom now has 12 DS chances on player phase against Grima. On the successful run he went down to five hits, so that's a ton of leeway for him. If Morgan is a Warrior then he'll likely be damaging Grima too to reduce Chrom's workload even further, and there's always the possibility of a lucky non-DG on Robin for more Venegance damage too. I think Grima is so in the bag thanks to the children that really Chrom's DS performance for earlier chapters (netting Robin kills for GF) is a bigger concern.

Speaking of GF kills, early in training hitting PavGis pretty much required two DSes to get the kill (especially in Cht.17). You never got imperiled by missing one but it's still sketchy and might be worth checking if a Forge could make a difference.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I tend to ask yoshi in chat about certain pairings and kiddos and I ended up asking about Stahl!Luci.
That stat threshold is a weird one though. You can have a luci who is way over the str requirement or way behind.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, Grima is handled. That Chrom did have super-exceptional Str, though, since he was dealing 21 per hit. Also, it was five hits, but required Robin to do six attacks because Chrom didn't Dual Strike the fifth hit. Still, the new route does have a tone of back-up damage, which is why I'm not as concerned.

As for early Galeforcing, yeah, enemy promoted unit Pavise+ durability is a bit of a concern for needing a second Dual Strike. I think it's not a huge deal overall because I can avoid fighting them on PP, as well as the fact that for those stages, I tend to do a lot of EP fighting. I'm looking at the numbers now, though. Warriors have 64 HP and 17 Def, while Heroes have 59 and 19. Both can have HP+5, though. Robin can be expected to have maxed Str by this point, so she's looking at 41 + 5 + 2 = 48 Attack. That leaves Warriors with 34 HP and Heroes with 31. Chrom would somehow need 51 Attack to make the kill on one Dual Strike. Considering he was at 31 Attack with a Steel Lance, I'm not sure if forging would make enough of a difference. Using a Silver Sword would push him to 36, but there's no way for me to forge for +13 mt (I can throw in a Tonic for 2 more). I could break out a Killing Edge, but I think avoiding attacking them to trigger Galeforce is just the better option. I can always fight them on EP and if they're Counter/Pavise+ and isolated from any other Counter, I can just attack them on my second turn to weaken them and render Counter harmless.

Morgan will have to be comparatively more careful, but he'll also have the benefit of Anna Rescue tailing him to help bail him out if he fails to get the kill. Once again, though, just avoiding going against Pavise+ on PP is generally the better idea.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Robin was fine, it's Morgan I'm worried about.

How much Str, exactly, did Chrom have on the successful run?

He needs 93 Atk to get an unassisted 5HKO in Grima. Falchion is 48, and he gets +6 more from Tonic/Rally, so he should need 39 Str to do the deed. How rare is that?

Actually if Morgan caps Str as a Warrior and quads with a +5 Brave Bow and Paladin support, he could be doing 52 damage on his own. Even if Chrom does nothing, Morgan being danced and attacking 8 times might be a guaranteed 2RKO. So I don't think Chrom even matters on Grima.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

But Kuroi what happens when a fighter support doesn't give Luci the kill? What do we do if +6 str isn't enough? (4 with fighter and 2 with tonic, right?)
These are kid units, so it's possible. Improbable, yes but plausible none the less.