Secret Apotheosis "challenge*" Run Advice

[Xos]

Stahl!Laurent@Sage has 69 with 5/3 Celica's as support and doesn't give extraordinary speed to Morgan, but Morgan is the only one who can still keep up with the fastest even without 5 speed from Berserker pair-up.

I know Laurent is holding her back, but I couldn't find a way to turn Laurent into a usable Berserker (without hurting others in my team), and my Morgan is the only one who can still perform admirably even while carrying this Laurent.

I could do the same with my Olivia!Lucina!Morgan but only as an assassin, I guess that frees up a faster support for someone more in need(and I sorta like silly wwii references).

Noire deserves honorable mention for having Hex, Anathema and Hit+20 all at base.

The calcs I've done for Noire were sort of surprising, for some reason I never took her too seriously. That said, this noire is stuck(?) with ricken as a father, does that make noire@sage preferable to noire@sniper? or is it too early to tell?

Don't use Sorcs. They fall into the same bin as Swordmasters with regard to Sages: Sages have more Mag, Skl, Spd, and weapons. Sorcs have an edge in defenses but everything's going to be 2HKOing you either way so it makes no difference.

Yeah that was a typo (hes currently a sorc but my plan for him was sage). Though now that you mention it, I have seen apo sets with him as a sorc, what is the reasoning behind that?

And now you begin to see what you're up against :p

lol yeah. I've definitely grown over the course of this thread in terms of my understanding and readiness (obviously I have you guys to thank for that).

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah that was a typo (hes currently a sorc but my plan for him was sage). Though now that you mention it, I have seen apo sets with him as a sorc, what is the reasoning behind that?

Sometimes it's because a) aesthetics or b) they're making the team for all of postgame and don't want to bother reclassing twice just for Apo. But the most common reason is that Sorcs work ingame as Vantage Nostanks, so people assume they'll work like that in Apo too (Nos works so badly in Apo that it's actually where Apo's reputation for difficulty came from) and don't know any better. I haven't seen anyone on this forum who's gone through the whole teambuilding process and is still using a Sorc for general combat in Apo (there have been one or two that have some specific role in mind, though- notably Waste is slightly stronger than a Sage@Celica's Gale, though the terrible Hit usually makes it not worth it).

Noire: you'll have to just do some calcs and see which class works better for her.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Knusperkeks]

I actually considered waste in my setup on Laurent, but gave up on it for reasons stated by Czar_Yoshi.

Think of it like this:

Waste has 10 Mt and 45 hit.

To gain this much, you need 10/1=10 forge points in Mt and 45/5=9 forge points in hit, so 19 points total. 19 units of raw power.

Celica's Gale has 4 Mt, 80 hit. That's 4/1+80/5=4+16=20. 20 units of raw power.

Celica's Gale is actually more powerful in this regard.

It's only when the unit has dozens of hit rating which entirely go to waste (sry lol) that the Waste tome pulls ahead of Celica's Gale.

Waste has potentially 6 more mt than Celica's, if you consider that your unit can reclass to sage instead, which has 2 more magic, that advantage of 6 mt shrinks to 4 mt only. But you lose 35 hit rating.

Do you think it's worth losing 35 hit for 4 mt? That's a really bad trade in terms of opportunity cost. That's why sages are better at dealing damage objectively.

Edit: What's the point of Demoiselle on Nah?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Vascela]

When I was planning out no dlc/no rally 100% I was fiddling with Aversa!Morgan. An untouched Waste still has more MT than a 5 forge Celicas, so I could scavenge for hit skills instead of damage skills.

In the end, I opted out of it, but it was definitely a viable option on paper.

edit: but this is ignoring one of Celcia's top value in effective damage

Edited April 3, 2015 by Vascela

[Czar_Yoshi]

On top of that general Hit difference between Waste and Celica's, keep in mind that Sorc has 5 less Skl than Sage. That'll make a Hit difference too.

Demoiselle is one of those Aura skills that works from the back and even affects partners- in her case it should give her husband +10 Avo.

[Knusperkeks]

On top of that general Hit difference between Waste and Celica's, keep in mind that Sorc has 5 less Skl than Sage. That'll make a Hit difference too.

Right, that's another 7.5 hit, so we're at 42.5 hit for 4 mt. Thanks for pointing it out, I forgot.

Demoiselle is one of those Aura skills that works from the back and even affects partners- in her case it should give her husband +10 Avo.

I know what Demoiselle does and how it works.

My inquiry was towards the purpose of giving Sorcerer Laurent 10 more avoidance and crit avoidance, it literally makes no difference whether he has that or not.

[Xos]

Edit: What's the point of Demoiselle on Nah?

I messed up and didn't pass down underdog, and figured it would give some utility if I ended up needing someone to dodgetank. Is there an obviously better option? (Assuming I put Nah with another sage and stick Laurent as support for Morgan)

[Knusperkeks]

I messed up and didn't pass down underdog, and figured it would give some utility if I ended up needing someone to dodgetank. Is there an obviously better option? (Assuming I put Nah with another sage and stick Laurent as support for Morgan)

Demoiselle is an awesome skill for avoid tanking, but you need to know exactly what you're going to use it for. Ideally, it would bring the enemy's hit to zero, or close to that. Too bad it works only on male units... Who do you plan to use it on? Without a concrete strategy, the skill will be worthless.

Next best options for Nah are probably Speed+2 or Deliverer.