Nerfs and Buffs you feel should be in the next Patch

[Jedi]

Upcoming on the 15th along with early Mewtwo, is a new patch which claims to alter things. What do you personally feel should be altered.

I personally feel that Diddy, Yoshi both need some nerfs on some of their moves considering how easy it is to currently play both characters, they aren't unstopable, but they remain two of the easist characters to pick up.

Sonic I feel shouldn't have 3 kill throws either.

Marth, Lucina, Robin, Charizard, Zelda and Samus are in the most dire need of some buffs, but what exactly I'm not 100% sure other than giving Zelda an approch option.

[Anacybele]

^If those guys need buffs badly, which they kinda do, then so does Ike. He's even lower on the tier list than a few of them. But I think he does anyway. Re-buff f-air so it has its godly Brawl range and change Quick Draw so it doesn't leave Ike helpless. Buff Paralyzing Counter so the paralysis lasts a bit longer. Then it'd actually be useful for combos other than following it up with Ike's jab. Other than that, I can't think of anything significant he should get, though he's still slow. It's not like I want him to be OP though.

Make Robin run a little faster. Seriously. Like, his running speed is so slow it's hilarious. And he looks ridiculous trying to run. xP

Nerf Diddy. Nerf Rosalina. Nerf ZSS. Nerf Palutena's customs. That's all I can think of for significant nerfs.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[Knight]

Make Marth and Lucina's sword longer, please. All my mains are in dire need of buffs (Marth, Samus, Charizard)

I hope Mewtwo is good too.

[Ice Sage]

Agree with you all the way bro.

Marth, Lucina, Robin, Charizard, Zelda and Samus need buffs. Using Marth/Lucina in this game makes me sad :(

[Comet]

marth and lucina need a bit more range, less extention when they swing their swords, and a bit less endlag on their aerials. jigglypuff's up air should be adjusted to let it combo into rest a bit more. ike's moves should have just a little bit more strength to give him that threatening stature he had in brawl. i don't know about the other characters but everyone except sheik, diddy, pikachu, fox, rosalina, and two or three others that i don't care to remember should be buffed.

also worse shields would be nice.

edit: marth and lucina deserve their brawl down aerial as well. doc having mario's cape or at least the properties it had in melee should help him. zelda's kicks should have less lag and her down smash should have a little more range. having zelda's jab come out faster would be give her a good panic option other than down smash.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Comet

[Tsunami922]

I want Palutena to get buffs. A little less ending lag on her ground moves would be nice. And more damage and knockback.

I hope Rosalina and Peach don't get hit.

[Generic General]

Even though Samus is already pretty bad, I still wouldn't be surprised if she's nerfed due to For Glory "complaints" (See Little Mac). That's why I dislike balance patches sometimes..

Sakurai: *laughs* She's already the best character in the game, right? *buffs ZSS*

[Jedi]

^If those guys need buffs badly, which they kinda do, then so does Ike. He's even lower on the tier list than a few of them. But I think he does anyway. Re-buff f-air and change Quick Draw so it doesn't leave Ike helpless. Buff Paralyzing Counter so the paralysis lasts a bit longer. Then it'd actually be useful for combos other than following it up with Ike's jab. Other than that, I can't think of anything significant he should get, though he's still slow. It's not like I want him to be OP though.

Make Robin run a little faster. Seriously. Like, his running speed is so slow it's hilarious. And he looks ridiculous trying to run. xP

Nerf Diddy. Nerf Rosalina. Nerf ZSS. Nerf Palutena's customs. That's all I can think of for significant nerfs.

Ike is better then all the characters I listed, PKL even agrees with me. He is also better than a number of others too, from my experience of having him as a secondary

He needs buffs somewhat yes, but with skill one can dominate with him, like Ganondorf. Alot of other characters need work first.

[Florete]

Nerfs:

Diddy Kong in general, but especially the down/up throw -> up air combo.

Ness' back throw.

Sonic's kill throws (a character this fast should not have such powerful throws).

Captain Falcon's forward smash (not by too much, but it feels way too powerful as it is given his speed and options in general).

Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash.

Villager's Counter Timber + Exploding Balloons (just something to not make this combination so dumb).

I feel like Sheik could also use a nerf somewhere, but I don't know where.

Buffs:

Dr. Mario's recovery (it's practically Little Mac levels of awful).

Marth and Lucina's sword length (they're the only sword users for whom I feel like their sword length isn't right). Less cool down on down air would also be really nice.

Wii Fit Trainer's hit boxes and cool down on smash attacks. Seriously, they suck.

Zelda should be able to act of Din's Fire. What the fuck, Sakurai? Fox and Falco can act out of side B but not Zelda?

I feel like some other characters could use buffs but I don't really know where (even on characters I use like Ike and Samus). I'm not really thinking strictly of tier lists, either. Like, I think Little Mac sucks, but I also feel like he is exactly as he should be and doesn't need to change.

[Anacybele]

Ike is better then all the characters I listed, PKL even agrees with me. He is also better than a number of others too, from my experience of having him as a secondary

He needs buffs somewhat yes, but with skill one can dominate with him, like Ganondorf. Alot of other characters need work first.

Dude, Ike is like 41/50 on the tier list on average. And just about every tier list I've seen places Marth, Lucina, and Robin above Ike.

[Ein]

Make everyone who isn't as fast as Mario as fast as Mario.

[Florete]

Dude, Ike is like 41/50 on the tier list on average. And just about every tier list I've seen places Marth, Lucina, and Robin above Ike.

Sakurai can't just look at the tier list and decide who to nerf/buff based on that alone (especially since there isn't a concrete tier list for this game yet). I agree that Ike could be buffed a bit, but I don't think he needs much and that he largely is where he should be. I think the only real problem I have with him is his forward smash, which I think could come out a bit faster and have less cool down (even if it's at the cost of some knockback).

Ike is going to get walled out by someone like Robin just by the very nature of their styles, though. RD Ike just doesn't have good resistance.

[Carter]

Zelda should be able to act of Din's Fire. What the fuck, Sakurai? Fox and Falco can act out of side B but not Zelda?

I've always wanted this. Project M gave me unrealistic hopes for Smash 4 XD.

But seriously, what the hell? It's ridiculous. We've already been through a balance patch or two, yet Sakurai fails to realize the problem Zelda, Sheik, and Ike have.

I agree with all your other nerfs / buffs, Red Fox, but I wanted to focus on Zelda and her Din's Fire issue.

I'm not exactly sure if I'd want to nerf Ness's back throw, simply because I like using Ness, but I do think it would be for the better to nerf it. I'll admit, it does have CRAZY launching power. Still keep it stronger than other back throws though, pls. Just not like KO from the other side of the stage at 100% XD

[Jedi]

Dude, Ike is like 41/50 on the tier list on average. And just about every tier list I've seen places Marth, Lucina, and Robin above Ike.

Thats simple, those lists you've seen are wrong.

[Comet]

i'm not sure if it would be wise to buff sheik more (she's generally considered to be the best already), and i'm pretty sure she has a sort of ledge cancel thing with the grenade that she can already do.

tbh i'd rather not have nerfs other than little changes to the mechanics that would make it run smoother (unlikely but w/e) and give characters more strengths to encourage some offensive play rather than stuff like what happens when dabuz picks up a controller.

[Anacybele]

Sakurai can't just look at the tier list and decide who to nerf/buff based on that alone (especially since there isn't a concrete tier list for this game yet). I agree that Ike could be buffed a bit, but I don't think he needs much and that he largely is where he should be. I think the only real problem I have with him is his forward smash, which I think could come out a bit faster and have less cool down (even if it's at the cost of some knockback).

Ike is going to get walled out by someone like Robin just by the very nature of their styles, though. RD Ike just doesn't have good resistance.

It's more that it seems to be generally agreed that Ike is bad in this game, seemingly just as bad as he was in Brawl, if not worse. Yeah, he got some buffs, but he also got nearly just as many nerfs, putting him right back where he started. He got a few more buffs with that one update, but it appears that that wasn't enough.

I'm not saying Ike is as buff needy as other characters people listed here, Zelda, Charizard, and others definitely need them more than he does. I don't think Ike needs to be buffed a LOT either, otherwise he'd likely be OP. I just think he needs to be buffed more than Marth, Robin, and Lucina. Well, maybe not Robin. Robin is still kind of bad to me too.

Thats simple, those lists you've seen are wrong.

And who made you the official expert on who is good and who is bad?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[Elieson]

jedi when ike makes the top 5, call me. Until then, he could use a buff. If you're destroying your opponent as ike, you're probably just a better player than they are

Do you agree with my group to buff
[10:30:23 PM] Elieson: only somewhat
[10:30:28 PM] Elieson: like
[10:30:35 PM] Elieson: i feel as though a lot moer need buffs
[10:30:38 PM] Elieson: for standard play
[10:30:44 PM] Elieson: kirby
[10:30:45 PM] Jedi: True
[10:30:47 PM] Jedi: Well
[10:30:48 PM] Elieson: Dr mario
[10:30:51 PM] Jedi: Metaknight
[10:30:53 PM] Elieson: Palutena
[10:30:54 PM] Jedi: too
[10:30:57 PM] Elieson: Meat Knight
[10:30:59 PM] Jedi: Palutena is fine with customs
[10:39:05 PM] Elieson: well
[10:39:07 PM] Elieson: /with/
[10:40:08 PM] Elieson: but still
[10:40:20 PM] Elieson: her attacks themselves are a little wonky with hitboxes IMO
[10:40:30 PM] Jedi: I just hope they don't mess anything up
[10:40:33 PM] Jedi: but yeah I agree

Edited April 5, 2015 by Sara.

[DreadFighter]

Diddy and Yoshi need to be less braindead and Ganon needs fair to auto cancel from a full hop, Diddy needs his up air's knockback reduced and that of his up throw increased as well. Ness's B throw should kill 10% later and Sonic needs more end lag. A lot of Low Tiers like Ike and Marth (Swordusers) need increased range as well so Shulk isn't so obviously practical.

Oh yeah... and Greninja

Edited April 5, 2015 by Le FalconDorfMaster

[Zkirsche]

Increase the knockback of shiek's fair so she can't chain kill all the heavies with it. Nerf Diddy's fair too (HOOHAH is fine).

[euklyd]

melee fair let's go

tbh I'd like basically the entire cast buffed

buff everyone to the point where you'd need to buff sheik to make her top tier again, but everyone was still viable

then buff sheik

that would basically be my ideal

[FrostyFireMage]

Captain Falcon needs less kill moves - particularly his side-B and aerials besides the knee

Zelda's side-B leaving her helpless is stupid and needs to be changed

Rosalina should be more helpless without Luma rather than good without and great with

[Misses Elise-chan!]

I want Palutena to get buffs. A little less ending lag on her ground moves would be nice. And more damage and knockback.

I hope Rosalina and Peach don't get hit.

Palutena's neutral special is just sad, needs fixing.

Also, Palutena's customs suck, vanilla Palutena is the only way to go.

Little Mac needs the most buffs, even more than Ike.

Ness needs to be nerfed, as much as I like him. He is my main, but I won't use that to justify my bias.

Any thoughts on nerfing the combo passed down from generation to generation from Ness main to Ness main (Grab->Down Throw->Foward Air x 9000)? I would hate to see that combo be ruined, although I do agree with nerfing back throw.

[DreadFighter]

Captain Falcon needs less kill moves - particularly his side-B and aerials besides the knee

Zelda's side-B leaving her helpless is stupid and needs to be changed

Rosalina should be more helpless without Luma rather than good without and great with

Falcon needs no nerfs tbh. His horrible recovery makes him a perfectly balanced character.

Almost forgot to say that Sheik's fair could use more base knockback.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Mega Man's neutral special is really lacking considering his character is basically a projectile spammer (Not that it's a bad thing for him, he is Mega Man). Leaf shield should last longer, greatly extended duration is needed, and he should be able to use other attacks while down special is active. If possible I would like his leaf shield be buffed into a reflector. Maybe his lemons could reach a littler farther. Am I making this too OP?

Olimar's up throw with blue pikmin should kill earlier too.

[Elieson]

Samus not losing her charge shot when interrupted while firing. Rob doesn't lose his, why should samus lose hers?