The Duel System

[nhaer042]

So, I was thinking about how the Dual System is returning in this game. While I did like it in Awakening, I admit that it does have its flaws. While IS seems to be addressing this by letting enemy units utilize it and seeming to nerf some of the bonuses your units get, I was thinking of some other ways they could balance the system out.

1) Get rid of Pair Up. While reclassing does do a lot to make units OP, Pair Up is just as big an offender. It made Awakening way too easy on normal difficulty and even if they reduce some of the bonuses you get in If, I still think Pair Up might still make your units too strong.

2) Mitigate grinding out supports. I think Path of Radiance had a pretty good system of building supports (units only needed to be participate in a certain number of chapters together to build support). If they did that here, it would make it a lot harder to abuse the Dual System by grinding out support levels. To address the issue of an open world map like Hoshido seems to be having, perhaps have characters only be able to build support once per level? I mean that encounters caused by Reeking Boxes (or whatever If's equivalent will be) or non-story DLC wouldn't contribute to building supports. I dunno, I admit this suggestion has the most issues.

3) Bring back the 5 level of supports only feature. Limiting the number of supports a character could have would also help keep them from abusing the Dual System. If "S" ranks are still a thing, maybe the limit could be boosted to 7 or 8.

4) Have the allied character in a paired up battle not be as strong as if they were the attacking character. This should apply to enemies too.

I doubt these ideas would make it in the game and I also admit they may have their flaws but I think they'd help. I don't hate the Dual System nor do I think it should be removed. However, serious tweaking is needed to make it a valid mechanic.

Anyhow, that's my two cents. Anyone else have some ideas?

[Draco]

I think the 5-support-limit might've been so characters didn't get 2 A ranks, therefore only one paired ending.

They probably took it out because of S ranks.

[nhaer042]

Yeah, I knew that. I just thought it'd be helpful here too in terms of mechanics. Not so much story endings.

[Aethin]

I'd be in favor of:

• Limit the amount that pairing up can boost stats to, say, no more than +2 (plus innate class bonuses).
• Make it so the carried character can get hurt when attacked during dual guards. (To prevent getting screwed by this, dual guard must not trigger if it would kill the guarder.)
• Greatly nerf the amount of damage dual attacks can do. Say, half of normal damage.

And possibly:

• Enemies can freely attack either unit, though with a penalty if they choose the carried unit.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Aethin

[nhaer042]

I dunno about enemies being able to attack either unit. However, the allied unit taking damage while guarding seems like an interesting idea. I was also thinking the type of attack might affect if the other unit attacks or defends. Allied mages would be more likely to block a magical attack or an allied unit with a sword would be more likely to attack if the enemy is using an axe for example.

[Walker]

Why does everyone think Pair Up is returning? This I do not understand.

Obviously, Dual Support (strike / guard) is returning, however, enemies can use it too.

The Pairr Up feature was fun, but it's essentially required on Hard / Lunatic / Lunatic+ difficulties, which takes the fun out of fielding a 15-20 unit army, and instead running around with half a dozen superunits.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Why does everyone think Pair Up is returning? This I do not understand.

serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/dancer2.jpg

Because that. (Ignore the circle)

[Walker]

Wow. Missed that. But my arguement still stands

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I wasn't addressing your argument, I was answering your question...

[Awakener_]

I really don't care that much about nerfing pair-up, as essentially all pair-up is for simply grinding supports. As long as it there I am good. While enemy has access to pair-up, it is too insignificant imo beside the minor annoyance of dual-guard to do any major difference. Our pair-up scale with support and they don't, therefore our pair-up will always be better than enemy's. Though I am thinking the potential of baiting enemy into a pair-up so they won't attack weaker/lower health units or whatever exploitative stuff. A example such as enemy Knight is gonna attack my mage (since I move it in the range of the knight), the Knight pair-up with a Pegasus Knight for extra resis and attack. Bait, kill and repeat; this can be the ways to do around higher difficultly (lunatic and lunatic plus) since with pair-up they will be fielding less enemy. I am really looking forward to all the crazy stuffs we can do with it.

[Neoleo21]

Pair up was confirmed to be nerfed by the newest trailer, we don't know by how much exactly but its there and enemies also apparently use the dual system so they probably nerfed to prevent them from being a pain to fight. I think pair up won't be nearly as broken as it was in Awakening as enemies now use it too.