Chapter 6 choice too early?

[warchiefwilliams]

Something has been bothering me about the in-game decision regarding whether to support Hoshido or Nohr, and that is the timing of the decision.

According to the information we have, the choice whether to support either Hoshido or Nohr occurs within chapter 6. While this may make sense from certain standpoints (because the game is being shipped in two versions, "we need to differentiate the two quickly so consumers don't feel cheated") to me at least, this seems way too early in the game. For the sake of comparison, in Awakening, Chapter 6 was the assassination attempt on Emmeryn. At this point in the game, we have yet to meet the full cast of 1st gen characters, nor have we, as the avatar, made it very far in our support convos, so we know little about the characters we do have. If Robin were forced to pick between Chrom and Validar at this point, it is quite obvious who he/she would side with baring some magic trickery from Validar.

For If, assuming the 1st 6 chapters flow similar to the ones in Awakening, Kamui will likely be trying to right wrongs (i.e the usual bandit problem every Fire Emblem beginning seems to have) in Nohr with his adopted family. I could potentially see IS introducing the Honshido (Honshidoan?) family during this time, but if so, how would they do it and convince the player to bond with them enough to betray their adoptive family in the short time before chapter 6? The fact that the cutscene in the trailer that appears to shows Kamui making their decision takes place with the two families standing in front of their respectful armies suggests to me at least that the situation was tense enough, if not downright hostile, prior to this event that Kamui would not have had time to really get to know his/her true family, as any request for the two families to meet probably would have been viewed by the other as a great way to assassinate the entire royal family in one strike.

I guess overall, I feel like the biggest choice in this game occurs way to early to make narrative sense. If I was in Kamui's position, I know who I would side with; the people who welcomed me into their own family despite my heritage and treat me as one of them. Not some mooks who claim to be my true blood family. Then again, I suppose we will know more once the game comes out in Japan and someone lets us know what happens.

If i have gotten some information wrong, or if you see flaws in my argument, please point them out.

[nordopolica]

Something has been bothering me about the in-game decision regarding whether to support Hoshido or Nohr, and that is the timing of the decision.

According to the information we have, the choice whether to support either Hoshido or Nohr occurs within chapter 6. While this may make sense from certain standpoints (because the game is being shipped in two versions, "we need to differentiate the two quickly so consumers don't feel cheated") to me at least, this seems way too early in the game. For the sake of comparison, in Awakening, Chapter 6 was the assassination attempt on Emmeryn. At this point in the game, we have yet to meet the full cast of 1st gen characters, nor have we, as the avatar, made it very far in our support convos, so we know little about the characters we do have. If Robin were forced to pick between Chrom and Validar at this point, it is quite obvious who he/she would side with baring some magic trickery from Validar.

For If, assuming the 1st 6 chapters flow similar to the ones in Awakening, Kamui will likely be trying to right wrongs (i.e the usual bandit problem every Fire Emblem beginning seems to have) in Nohr with his adopted family. I could potentially see IS introducing the Honshido (Honshidoan?) family during this time, but if so, how would they do it and convince the player to bond with them enough to betray their adoptive family in the short time before chapter 6? The fact that the cutscene in the trailer that appears to shows Kamui making their decision takes place with the two families standing in front of their respectful armies suggests to me at least that the situation was tense enough, if not downright hostile, prior to this event that Kamui would not have had time to really get to know his/her true family, as any request for the two families to meet probably would have been viewed by the other as a great way to assassinate the entire royal family in one strike.

I guess overall, I feel like the biggest choice in this game occurs way to early to make narrative sense. If I was in Kamui's position, I know who I would side with; the people who welcomed me into their own family despite my heritage and treat me as one of them. Not some mooks who claim to be my true blood family. Then again, I suppose we will know more once the game comes out in Japan and someone lets us know what happens.

If i have gotten some information wrong, or if you see flaws in my argument, please point them out.

Chapter 6 was halfway through 4. 7 did a pretty good job of establishing Lyn's story quickly. Awakening's chapters were relatively short and the maps were relatively small. If if has larger maps on which you will spend more time, a more streamlined story that gets to the point, and characters that are easily introduced and engaging, I see no problem with the Chapter 6 split as of yet.

[Rawkstar]

I understand your point, but here's the thing: if it was any later in the game, there would be so much less variation between the two versions. They're ultimately trying to tell two entirely different stories, not one story with a choice, so the sooner the option is made, the better and more actual story we'll get out of it.

[nordopolica]

I understand your point, but here's the thing: if it was any later in the game, there would be so much less variation between the two versions. They're ultimately trying to tell two entirely different stories, not one story with a choice, so the sooner the option is made, the better and more actual story we'll get out of it.

Also this. An average fire emblem game usually has 20-25 chapters so you need to make the choice snappy for it to feel like a complete game and thus warranting two separate versions.

[warchiefwilliams]

Perhaps my paranoia is getting the better of me. Too many games as of late that I have gotten excited for have flopped horrendously (Rome II I am looking at you!) and I have learned to be wary. Trust me though, I understand why the split is occurring so early on from a business sense. I just hope it doesn't compromise the narrative of the game as a whole.

Out of curiosity though, how do you people think they will set the run-up to the campaign split.

edit: fixed the spelling for excited. I can english... somedays.....

Edited April 8, 2015 by warchiefwilliams

[nordopolica]

How will they set it up? Well from what we have seen it looks like you become acquainted with both sides of the story early on. Im not sure whether you will move between factions chapter to chapter or if, say, chapters 1-3 are Nohr and 4-5 are Hoshido, but I think you will be with Hoshido until the Nohr forces strike and force you to choose a side.

[goodperson707]

Prologue and 1 or 2 chapters in Nohr 2 or 3 chapters in hoshidio, one of those chapters presumably involving dancer chick. And chapter 6 of couse.

[Five5]

They must be confident that its enough if its already anounced, perhaps the first six chapters have long cut scenes and alot of dialogue to get the whole story

[NekoKnight]

I thought so too. There are 4 characters from each faction that you need to meet and bond with in such a short span of time, it will be difficult to manage. Perhaps the first few missions will be wit Nohr and in the process you will have some minor clashes with Hoshido. In the process you will see/participate in some of Nohr's dickishness to bring your own morals into question. Of course the biggest bomb to drop (assuming he doesn't know already) is that Kamui is from the Hoshido royal family. If it's delivered well, then Kamui will realize he was just a tool to Nohr and was stolen from his real family. If it's not delivered well, Kamui will see some new faces that claim to be his family but have no real reason to betray his adoptive family.

[Aurath8]

My best theory is that Prologue Ch1 and Ch2 will be Nohr-focused.
The scene where Sonic the Swordmaster gets executed is some sort of dream the Avatar has before being awoken by the maids.
Prologue gets you acquainted with Nohr's family. Bandit problem is a typical opening, so I guess they send Kamui and co. to fend them off and give him some proper battle experience.

Story scene with Garon, Marx etc. setting up strained relations with Hoshido.

Ch1 could be the first clash with Hoshido. I wouldn't want to involve morals too strongly at this point, but maybe towards the end the Hoshido captain gets executed rather than taken prisoner after being defeated. I realise the two factions aren't technically at full-on war yet (probably) so perhaps this Hoshido battalion was in fact aiming for something different and Nohr didn't appreciate soldiers moving about so close to the border.

Ch2 Somehow during this Chapter I think Kamui should be separated from the Nohr army. It seems like a good time to give a preview to the monsters, as that would take Nohr by surprise somewhat. I think a herd of Nosferatu or whatever could cause enough chaos. For this.

Ch3 Kamui is found by Hoshido. Reunion happens. Le backstory is explained. Unsure how a battle results from this, but let's just say thieves/bandits looking to catch Ryouma off-guard. Either way, we could make our way to Hoshido barracks for the first time after this battle.

Ch4-5 I'm not sure what to do here, but Kamui has to get back to Hoshido City(?), and meet with the Ruler at some point. Since Hoshido appears to worship dragons Kamui could get a Dragonstone too somehow. Of course, with Kamui appearing in public, Nohr will notice that he was kidnapped. Furthermore, if they teach him about his Dragon origins, that could really motivate Garon to launch an offensive against Hoshido. If we assume that trailer scene is when he takes Baby Kamui, judging from the translations he may now how significant Kamui's abilities are.

Ch6 Nohr declares war, with Hoshido kidnapping Kamui as some kind of last straw for a strained relationship. Blame could also start flying for the resurgence of monsters idk.

Either way, The Big Confrontation happens. The Big Decision happens. The rest of the game happens.

Oh and somewhere in this big messy headcanon, the Dancer just sorta shows up. I think it'd have to be after Kamui gets separated from Nohr, but really we have no idea the Dancer is, except that she seems important and is prime waifu material.

[nhaer042]

Six might be a bit early but I'd rather have to make the big choice early in the game and deal with the repercussions for the majority of the story rather than wait halfway through and have less time to really let the weigh of the choice sink in.

[Vitezen]

I haven't played the game yet so I don't know how it flows, so I can't make an arbitrary judgement like that.

[Ambulz]

I think it's a good place to put it. I'd rather have it then than anytime else. I just hope we get an equal amount of time (as in cutscenes) to develop our relationships with both of our families. I want to feel torn when the fateful time comes.

[Eveangaline]

Maybe there will be some kind of prologue that adds a few chapters before chapter 6?

[ckc22]

Personally - I think if they were planning on versions they shouldn't have even implemented a choice - just start you out on completely different paths for the entire game.

[Thief]

Perhaps every chapter is super-long, and Chapter 6 is actually the penultimate chapter.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Personally - I think if they were planning on versions they shouldn't have even implemented a choice - just start you out on completely different paths for the entire game.

This would've been the best way to go about it, under the current situation anyway.

[Trickster]

Nah I think chapter 6 is the best way to start so that we get to maximize the amount of potential differences we get between the two.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Nah I think chapter 6 is the best way to start so that we get to maximize the amount of potential differences we get between the two.

Well, if the first 6 chapters were different there would be even more differences.

[NekoKnight]

My best theory is that Prologue Ch1 and Ch2 will be Nohr-focused.

The scene where Sonic the Swordmaster gets executed is some sort of dream the Avatar has before being awoken by the maids.

Prologue gets you acquainted with Nohr's family. Bandit problem is a typical opening, so I guess they send Kamui and co. to fend them off and give him some proper battle experience.

Story scene with Garon, Marx etc. setting up strained relations with Hoshido.

Ch1 could be the first clash with Hoshido. I wouldn't want to involve morals too strongly at this point, but maybe towards the end the Hoshido captain gets executed rather than taken prisoner after being defeated. I realise the two factions aren't technically at full-on war yet (probably) so perhaps this Hoshido battalion was in fact aiming for something different and Nohr didn't appreciate soldiers moving about so close to the border.

Ch2 Somehow during this Chapter I think Kamui should be separated from the Nohr army. It seems like a good time to give a preview to the monsters, as that would take Nohr by surprise somewhat. I think a herd of Nosferatu or whatever could cause enough chaos. For this.

Ch3 Kamui is found by Hoshido. Reunion happens. Le backstory is explained. Unsure how a battle results from this, but let's just say thieves/bandits looking to catch Ryouma off-guard. Either way, we could make our way to Hoshido barracks for the first time after this battle.

Ch4-5 I'm not sure what to do here, but Kamui has to get back to Hoshido City(?), and meet with the Ruler at some point. Since Hoshido appears to worship dragons Kamui could get a Dragonstone too somehow. Of course, with Kamui appearing in public, Nohr will notice that he was kidnapped. Furthermore, if they teach him about his Dragon origins, that could really motivate Garon to launch an offensive against Hoshido. If we assume that trailer scene is when he takes Baby Kamui, judging from the translations he may now how significant Kamui's abilities are.

Ch6 Nohr declares war, with Hoshido kidnapping Kamui as some kind of last straw for a strained relationship. Blame could also start flying for the resurgence of monsters idk.

Either way, The Big Confrontation happens. The Big Decision happens. The rest of the game happens.

Nice ideas. Here's how I imagine it starting from chapter 3. Kamui is doing some patrol of the border when he notices a large group of monsters attacking a Hoshido village. The Nohr people don't care but Kamui wants to protect the villagers so he sneaks out with his butler and maid to fight the monsters. Leading the defense from the Hoshido side is the white haired archer that recognizes Kamui. He questions Kamui's identity and tells him that they met many years ago as children. He gives Kamui an invitation to visit the Hoshido capital to meet his brother Ryoma. Kamui finds it hard to believe at first so he goes back to Nohr to mull it over. All the while he's starting to remember things from his past that couldn't possibly have happened in Nohr.

Chapter 4, Kamui wants his doubts answered so he travels to Hoshido where they tell him about his true heritage and give him a Dragon Stone. Kamui's absence doesn't go unnoticed and Nohr sends a battalion disguised as bandits to "rescue" Kamui. The leader of their group contacts Kamui and tells him to return to Nohr. Nohr soldiers start burning Hoshido villages to create a diversion for Kamui but Kamui won't allow it and is forced to fight them.

By chapter 5, tensions between Nohr and Hoshido are at their highest, especially after the Nohr raid. I'm not sure what battle would go on here but by the end of the chapter, Kamui confronts Marx about his true heritage. Marx admits that he knew they were not blood related but he still considers Kamui nothing less than his brother/sister. Marx doesn't know why Garon kidnapped Kamui but tells Kamui that it's all in the past and he is a Nohrian, regardless of his birth.

Chapter 6, Nohr is set to invade Hoshido and Kamui must choose between the family and culture he knows and the more sympathetic country and blood family that are being invaded.

Edited April 9, 2015 by NekoKnight