ya know, alot of stuff in this game is optional

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

don't get me wrong, i don't like the game, but i remember hearing so many "well that's optional" statements that it led me to think...how much of this game IS Optional to beat it?

well, if i am correct, if i am wrong please correct me, this includes all of side missions, all of the DLC, all of the supports, spotpass teams and boxes, map encounters, marriage by extension of optional supports, which also means all the children characters are completely optional, also pair up.

i'm not saying choice is bad, infact choice is good, more choice is good, but alot of it being optional...i dunno how to feel about that.

for example, i think the DLC this game had is the best part and there could've been an entirely different game just revolving around it, but on the other hand, i feel like the main game itself is very bare bones, which leads to this circle of discussions I've seen before on other places.

"not a bad game, but the main part feels lacking"

"well there's all sorts of other stuff you can do, like ________"

"but i don't think some of this was handled very well so i have some criticisms about it."

"omg its optional anyways it doesn't matter."

i guess what i'm asking, which is the entire point of this topic, how much of a game's content should be required and how much should be up to the player? more so with this game franchise. also, is the "its optional so who cares?" statement legit in some cases or problem some in other cases depending on how much is actually optional and if its a good thing or not?

[Knusperkeks]

don't get me wrong, i don't like the game, but

Stopped reading after this. Not sure if troll post or not. Not gonna risk it.

[Knight Falchion]

It depends on the kind of optional content, I guess. When it comes to Awakening, I'd still say that the density of the content pre- paid DLC is still in the main game, and for me at least, the main game is good enough that slightly inadequate optional content doesn't bother me. Some of the aspects of the Spotpass chapters do annoy me, but that has been discussed before and by people more articulate than I.

Honestly, I think that amount of content that is required, at least for a Fire Emblem game, should outweigh the amount of content that is not required. The main game should always be the priority since it is supposed to be the finished product that the developers have promised; using optional content not included in the initial package to fix everything that the game got wrong is a cop-out.

With the regards to the question of whether "it's optional so who even cares" is a legitimate response, I think it tends to be less correct than more so. If you're talking about grinding, yes, I think it is reasonable to respond to people who say a game has too much grinding/can be made easier by grinding with "it's optional." Stuff like the paralogues and xenologues, actual chapters that can have an effect on the story and have designs that can be criticized, cannot be defended with "it's optional." Even though it's optional, it's still something the developers thought players would enjoy and therefore decided to include it from the get-go- the paralogues especially so.

The DLC is also not free from criticism, but it should be criticized separately from the main game considering its time of release.

If any of that makes sense and if I didn't contradict myself. Granted, I liked most of the optional and main content, but I also understand issues people have with both of these things.

It's a good question, and I'm interested to see where the discussion ends up going.

Stopped reading after this. Not sure if troll post or not. Not gonna risk it.

Don't assume that just because he dislikes the game he's trolling. It seems like he's being honest and actually wants to discuss this, so if you have something to add, I know I'd like to see it.

Edited April 24, 2015 by The Legendary Falchion

[Czar_Yoshi]

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from Skyward Sword taking stuff that's obviously meant to be optional and forcing you to do it at strange moments as part of the main story. Awakening is awkward when it prompts/allows you to go to Paralogue 4 to fight some random bandits in Ferox in the middle of escaping from Gangrel, imagine how much more awkward it would be if that little expedition was forced.

When considering how full the main game (what's strictly required to reach and beat Grima) is, it's fair to compare it to other, past FEs (aside from Gaiden and Sacred Stones) that had similar linear paths to the finish, but also didn't have much for you to do aside from those paths. Is Awakening's more lacking? Its story certainly is (granted, watching cutscenes also falls into the bin of being optional), and it certainly takes less time to complete (partially due to the engine and menus simply being really good), but how does it stack up to the campaigns of past FEs? I'm not in the best position to answer that (having only played a limited number of past installments) but at face value it seems fairly similar.

Regarding "it's optional so who cares"... In limited amounts I can agree with this (for example, I'd totally say it to a shipper who is mad that other waifus besides their own have confession scenes too, and I completely feel this way about Double Duel), but if it's used against things that you would actually notice skipping...

I mean, saying pairup is optional may technically be true (you can beat the game without it) but the game is definitely balanced around it and it's kind of expected that you use it. I can beat 99% of OoT without using my sword, but does that mean if someone thinks the sword controls are bad or something they can just say, "hey, the sword is optional so who cares"? I don't think so.

The same applies to when it's used to brush off dud aesthetics. The support conversations may be entirely optional, but they're a pretty big part of the game and have (or are supposed to have) the bulk of the units' characterization riding on them, which is important in a character-driven game (again, not necessarily what Awakening is, but something it wants to be). Pick and choose which ones you see? That's a good example of optional. You shouldn't have to (and sort of can't) see all of them in one playthrough. See none of them because "they're optional"? Nope. If they all stank (there are a few good ones), I couldn't just brush them off as optional- I'd be really miffed that such a large part of the game was bad.

Anyway, I think the best way to integrate some structure into the optional content would be using a similar structure to Part 2 of the (real) Mystery Dungeon games: after the main story is over and the world is saved, you've got generally free reign to do what you want with minor/random things, and there's also a way to progress a second plot which isn't all grandly linked together story-wise but presents you sequentially with larger missions with greater rewards and more intricate, if self-contained, stories. And one finale at the end. Between the Scramble, Challenge and Future Past packs Awakening has a lot of material to make something like that work, and if all the DLC were made at launch so it could be properly integrated into the game I would have loved to see something like that happen.

[Knusperkeks]

Don't assume that just because he dislikes the game he's trolling. It seems like he's being honest and actually wants to discuss this, so if you have something to add, I know I'd like to see it.

I'll come up with something.

how much of this game IS Optional to beat it?

Anything that doesn't have completing prologue through endgame as it's primary objective is optional.

well, if i am correct, if i am wrong please correct me, this includes all of side missions, all of the DLC, all of the supports, spotpass teams and boxes, map encounters, marriage by extension of optional supports, which also means all the children characters are completely optional, also pair up.

Correct.

i'm not saying choice is bad, infact choice is good, more choice is good

Contingency is good. Thus, coercion is bad.

but alot of it being optional...i dunno how to feel about that.

It is optional precisely because it's not mandatory. Per your own definition, options are good. If you force people to endure certain aspects of the game, that's bad. I don't see any logic.

for example, i think the DLC this game had is the best part and there could've been an entirely different game just revolving around it, but on the other hand, i feel like the main game itself is very bare bones, which leads to this circle of discussions I've seen before on other places.

Some game developers can take their sweet time with game development. Most can not and are forced to produce results asap. The dlc was added after IS realized that the game is very successful. You're just complaining about the game because of personal bias.

"not a bad game, but the main part feels lacking"

"well there's all sorts of other stuff you can do, like ________"

"but i don't think some of this was handled very well so i have some criticisms about it."

"omg its optional anyways it doesn't matter."

Nothing but personal complaints. Not a single line here is praising the game for something it did right, blatantly implying it did nothing right at all.

i guess what i'm asking, which is the entire point of this topic, how much of a game's content should be required and how much should be up to the player?

All parts of the game which directly propel the plot should be required, everything else is optional.

more so with this game franchise.

I have no clue what this means.

also, is the "its optional so who cares?" statement legit in some cases or problem some in other cases depending on how much is actually optional and if its a good thing or not?

Your own definition is this: Contingency is good. Thus coercion is bad. There are no circumstances involved.

[Irysa]

the entire game is optional

it's a unsubstantial rebuttal to criticism.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Irysa

[Crysta]

My first playthrough I sped through it and didn't do much grinding.

Didn't bother with like 90% of the DLC. I still don't have it and don't intend to get it.

Not ever gonna get 100% of the support conversations.

Still had a decently good time.

It's perfectly legit to say optional things are optional. The same way saying fire is hot is indeed true.

Does the game totally dangle a carrot in front of you? Yep. It doesn't hold a gun to your head, though.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also don't bother with all the kid characters.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Crysta

[saifors]

Well technically picking up the game and playing it is also optional.

If I hadn't done all the optional stuff I would've probably been able to beat the game in a day.

(Also there's no option to completely turn off pair-up, so it isn't really optional, unless you go through the "optional" trouble of making sure not a single unit is next to another).

Really, optional stuff wouldn't bother me if it didn't affect as many thing as it does, you can say marriage and waifus are optional, but it still affects the game and makes the support system work different, also it's kinda necessary for 100%ing the game.

What would you be left with if you didn't do all the optional things in this game? A pretty boring and watered down playthrough of the game, in a way half of the entire game is optional.