Who's the better character?

[Radiant Dragon]

I think my biggest problem with him, is how nothing he really does adds up with how antagonistic he was in PoR.

I have to agree with this as well, his character is almost completely different in RD. The reasoning I came up with was that he was trying to play the part of a Daein general so no one would suspect him of playing two sides. As for Greil, remember that Zelgius did not expect him to lose so quickly. I don't know if he intended to fight Greil to the death but we do know that he had no idea the fight would be so easy.

[Rapier]

Ike, because his character development in FE9 is simply amazing. From a fresh mercenary to someone who has to take the reins while knowing nothing about leadership, lead a group that follows him only because of their loyalty they have to his father, keep Elincia from Daein's grasp while he's clearly underpowered, and eventually earn respect and prestige from his accomplishments. I'm not surprised most characters like him, with all the shit he's done in FE9. He had to go through a long and hard path to become the renowned badass he is in the end of the game.

I couldn't express my idea very well, but yeah, I like Ike the most. FE10!Ike wasn't all that bad, but his character development was null, and he just went and stole the spotlight with his sheer awesomeness. Zelgius and the BK are mere puppets. The characterization of the BK is cool, and I like this stereotype no matter how much it is overused, but it ends there.

[Sentacotus]

Ike, because his character development in FE9 is simply amazing. From a fresh mercenary to someone who has to take the reins while knowing nothing about leadership, lead a group that follows him only because of their loyalty they have to his father, keep Elincia from Daein's grasp while he's clearly underpowered, and eventually earn respect and prestige from his accomplishments. I'm not surprised most characters like him, with all the shit he's done in FE9. He had to go through a long and hard path to become the renowned badass he is in the end of the game.

I couldn't express my idea very well, but yeah, I like Ike the most. FE10!Ike wasn't all that bad, but his character development was null, and he just went and stole the spotlight with his sheer awesomeness. Zelgius and the BK are mere puppets. The characterization of the BK is cool, and I like this stereotype no matter how much it is overused, but it ends there.

The thing with Ike and why I think he would have been a hard character to write in RD is because by that time he is already the Hero. He is already a capable leader who has already developed. Its kinda like take your pick who is more interesting Smallville Clark Kent or Superman in the old cheesy movies. Of course its Clark Kent since you see him grow up and struggle with trying to be a normal kid while learning to use his superpowers. But I still think he's a good character overall since in FE9 you see him develop from a kid to a leader and FE10 is effectively a demonstration of his maturity and competence.

Edited May 30, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Augestein]

The thing with Ike and why I think he would have been a hard character to write in RD is because by that time he is already the Hero. He is already a capable leader who has already developed. Its kinda like take your pick who is more interesting Smallville Clark Kent or Superman in the old cheesy movies. Of course its Clark Kent since you see him grow up and struggle with trying to be a normal kid while learning to use his superpowers. But I still think he's a good character overall since in FE9 you see him develop from a kid to a leader and FE10 is effectively a demonstration of his maturity and competence.

I don't think it's hard to write him, the issue is that the story is bigger than Ike in RD, and making him take even more screen time just comes across as bizarre, unneeded (and a lot of it already was), and pointless. Ike doesn't even start the game with much motivation outside of "it's a job." It'd be like having someone like Dieck be the main character of Fire Emblem 6. He really doesn't have a ton of personal investment even if he IS there to help.

[HeroMystic]

Tbh though, Ike isn't that much better in RD. In PoR IS wrote both characters fantastically, Ike especially. They completely botched everything up in RD.

This is mainly due to writers stretching themselves too thin with trying to give everyone spotlight. It's part of the reason why I think the developers originally intended for DB to be the main characters and you would follow them the whole game, but ultimately Ike was far too popular of a character to brush aside, which is why we jump around so much and the plot becomes a mess as a result.

Ultimately though I see RD!Ike as The Big Damn Hero, and what we see in this game is what his growth resulted into. Of course, this also means he stopped growing. The only plot that was left for him is finishing off Zelgius.

Zelgius overall was pretty awkward when I think about it. I think he was well done in PoR as a mysterious combatant that put fear in his enemies, and you didn't really know his intentions besides wanting to prove he's better than Greil. Which begs the question, why did he wanted to prove that anyway? When he revealed his scheme to Ike in RD, he never answered that question either. As a result I'd say Zelgius got the shorter end of the stick in terms of development. Nothing really surmised to anything.

[Anacybele]

But Ike wasn't popular in Japan... Only in the west. I think IS just has favoritism for Ike. They gave him two games, and suggested that he be added to Smash. Then they made him the only lord not named Marth with a confirmed descendant in Awakening. The DLC map that awards you with his Einherjar for your party is the last one in the first set too (save the best for last). Also, PoR and RD were the games that they apparently REALLY wanted to make and that the GBA games were mostly just to get profits so they could make the Tellius saga.

But like I can complain about that if this is the case.

Although, I also think it wouldn't make sense to have a PoR sequel that doesn't include Ike in some way (a sequel that takes place in the near future, anyway). By the end of PoR, he commands respect from all parts of the continent sans Daein. And even a few Daeins respect him too (Zihark and Jill for instance). He's now famous and a great hero and warrior.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Anacybele

[HeroMystic]

It would be pretty silly to not have Ike at all, but I was particularly talking about DB being main characters and Ike filling the role as a supporting character.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, but he still wouldn't be able to show up until later because out of the DB, only Sothe has any admiration for Ike at the start. Micaiah is annoyed at him repeatedly talking about Ike and the others haven't even met the guy. They also probably don't like him much either.

And for Ike to not show up until late in the game and only as a supporting character that won't give you a game over or anything if he dies would just feel awkward, imo. I mean, not that I really want Ike to steal the spotlight, he and Micaiah should've just shared it equally.

[Augestein]

Yeah, but he still wouldn't be able to show up until later because out of the DB, only Sothe has any admiration for Ike at the start. Micaiah is annoyed at him repeatedly talking about Ike and the others haven't even met the guy. They also probably don't like him much either.

And for Ike to not show up until late in the game and only as a supporting character that won't give you a game over or anything if he dies would just feel awkward, imo. I mean, not that I really want Ike to steal the spotlight, he and Micaiah should've just shared it equally.

Literally Ike could have been like Lyn. There, but not overbearing. As much as people gripe about Lyn, at least she wasn't stealing the spotlight.

[Bankai]

I really don't like ether character mostly because I've seen both character types done so many times before actually written better to.

But if I have to choose I would have to say the Black Knight.

[Radiant head]

Literally Ike could have been like Lyn. There, but not overbearing. As much as people gripe about Lyn, at least she wasn't stealing the spotlight.

They would never do that though, because unlike Lyn, Ike was in the previous game, and they're using his character and people's familiarity of PoR to sell the game. Similarly, Eliwood is basically playing on people's familiarity with Roy.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Radiant head

[Jave]

They would never do that though, because unlike Lyn, Ike was in the previous game, and they're using his character and people's familiarity of PoR to sell the game. Similarly, Eliwood is basically playing on people's familiarity with Roy.

How? Ike is nowhere to be found on FE10's cover artwork, the back cover, or even the whole manual. The original trailer didn't feature him either. Unless you were spoiled from the Japanese version on the Internet, you're not even supposed to know Ike is in the game, and it's not like Nintendo heavily promoted this game.

[Sentacotus]

I might be in the minority here but I actually got the game to see where Ike came from when he was confirmed in Brawl since I never had the chance to get PoR when it came it out.

[Anacybele]

How? Ike is nowhere to be found on FE10's cover artwork, the back cover, or even the whole manual. The original trailer didn't feature him either. Unless you were spoiled from the Japanese version on the Internet, you're not even supposed to know Ike is in the game, and it's not like Nintendo heavily promoted this game.

There was a trailer with Ike in it though. I saw it on Youtube.

[Radiant head]

How? Ike is nowhere to be found on FE10's cover artwork, the back cover, or even the whole manual. The original trailer didn't feature him either. Unless you were spoiled from the Japanese version on the Internet, you're not even supposed to know Ike is in the game, and it's not like Nintendo heavily promoted this game.

Just knowing it's the sequel to Path of Radiance, really. I didn't need to look at a cover to know he's in the game.

Though I guess that would explain why the game flopped.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Radiant head

[Jave]

Just knowing it's the sequel to Path of Radiance, really. I didn't need to look at a cover to know he's in the game.

Though I guess that would explain why the game flopped.

Because you knew beforehand. Average Joe walking to the store has no way of knowing Ike is in the game or not. Specially since the cover and back cover of the game make no mention of anything PoR-related either.

Your second point doesn't explain why PoR flopped too.

[Radiant head]

"Average Joe" is way too random and hypothetical to really know what he does or doesn't know. There's more ways than a cover to know information, especially if Path of Radiance was played beforehand.

[Jave]

"Average Joe" is way too random and hypothetical to really know what he does or doesn't know. There's more ways than a cover to know information, especially if Path of Radiance was played beforehand.

You're completely missing the point. Nintendo did absolutely nothing to tell you that Ike was even in this game. In fact, Japan didn't find out until the game was actually out.

Sure, there are "more ways" to find out stuff, but what are these ways you talk about in the specific case of FE10? There was one teaser (E3 2006), one trailer (E3 2007), and... anything else? FE10 was basically sent out to die, as it was definitely not the type of game the Wii audience wanted. I guess you could say they were looking at Japanese footage, but even fans on this board don't do that much because, you know, spoilers.

[Radiant head]

So nobody knew it was a sequel to Path of Radiance? Sorry if I don't buy it.

I mean how poorly they marketed the game doesn't change the simple fact that Radiant Dawn was always going to play up the characters who players are already familiar with.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Radiant head

[Jave]

So nobody knew it was a sequel to Path of Radiance? Sorry if I don't buy it.

I mean how poorly they marketed the game doesn't change the simple fact that Radiant Dawn was always going to play up the characters who players are already familiar with.

Of course people knew that, but in Japan, what people didn't know was if Ike and the Greil Mercs were returning. With how he first shows up at the end of Part 2, Ike's appearance was supposed to surprise players. But where did you get "Nobody knew" from my post? Come on, you're resorting to really childish arguments here.

But my point was in response to your initial post that Nintendo used people's familiarity with Ike to sell FE10, which wasn't true because Ike was barely featured in FE10's promotionals.

[Radiant head]

Yeah what I said earlier was incorrect. I just think it's fairly common sense that the GM characters would take up the spotlight. It sounds like they were awful about making that clear in promoting the game, but the game itself is clearly pandering to PoR players.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Radiant head

[Zhadox]

What was the better game PoR or RD? I've only played PoR.

[HeroMystic]

PoR had the better story and better pacing in terms of gameplay. RD had a good story with a really questionable plot, and incredibly wonky pacing, but has great gameplay that I feel trumps PoR's.

[Augestein]

What was the better game PoR or RD? I've only played PoR.

Mechanically, I feel that RD is the superior game. The handling of skills in RD was much better than PoR. If a character starts with an innate skill, they keep that skill for free and can equip more skills as well. It has more weapons (although, this may not actually be a good thing as some of the things were still too limited, and expands upon things in PoR, for instance, there are more types of knives in RD than PoR, which means they spent more time giving thief units more weapon variety and progression than they initially had before.

Fixes skills that were overpowered or underpowered to make them have more/better usage, and also makes supports more heavily customized by the player instead of the set supports given in PoR. This means that teams can be crafted based purely on what the player wants instead of what helps. IE, because Ike has a support with Oscar, you'll use Oscar instead of ... Someone else etc.

The problem is that RD is an incredibly rushed game. Unit strengths are all over the place, and it's bad. Really bad. Most of this is because of how the units are distributed over the course of various parts... The scenario for RD is a mess and does not lend itself well to playing through. The first time through, you have no idea who you are really "allowed" to use because of how people come and go at moments. Some units join at times with strengths the are nearly impossible to even train them, let alone USE THEM. Overall, RD WOULD be better if it had its problems under control, but as it stands, I believe PoR to be the superior game.

[ShinyCatnip]

My favorite game in the series is PoR. RD is a very strong game as well, and is very mechanically sound and "organized" (such as thieves and Laguz having their own weapon types, for example), but the way the game is split up into parts really hinders the ability for many characters to be useful or have any interesting character development. The Support system in RD is focused more on gameplay bonuses, but it misses a huge part of one of my favorite parts of past FE games in that the conversations are bland and scripted.

I prefer PoR because it's slightly smaller in scale, which allows everything to be much more fleshed out. Its plot is superior and its character development is wonderful to watch. However, RD is an excellent game with incredible replay value, as well!