FE9 Tier List

[CGV]

Volke doesn't need supports, he won't fight.

I agree he isn't strong for quite some time. But later on with a Stiletto he can actually do some damage, but until then you're right

He'll fight from time to time just to get some EXP, although his EXP gain will be minor. He gains most of his EXP from stealing and BEXP, but his main job is to steal and pick. He is not a fighter

For once, I agree with Tino 100% on this one

To start a flame war.

lawlz

[Don Draper]

Kieran>Oscar. Seriously

Oscar is better at living, while Kieran is better at killing stuff. Kieran doesn't die easily (Oscar's support helps), but Oscar has trouble killing, while Kieran kills easily.

Kieran's lead is more important. Plus he has excellent base stats, and axes pre-promotion.

[Meteor]

Gyppy = wtf??

[Tino]

Gyppy is one of the members on FEE -_-

Oscar is immortal after some time, Kieran never is. Both Oscar and Kieran kill everything. Oscar wins.

[Don Draper]

But this tier list isn't a "Tier List for characters after some time", its a Tier List for the entire game. Kieran will have superior offense before promotion, while Oscar will have problems killing.

Not to mention if Oscar and Kieran each get an A Support, while Oscar gets B Ike, and Kieran B Marcia, Kieran gets +15 Avoid, while Oscar gets +35. It seems like a big difference, but it still won't make Oscar immortal.

[Tino]

Oscar has Tanith and Ike for Earth x Earth and Earth x Earth, which gives 50 Avoid, which gives him well over 100 Avoid, making him immortal. Immortal > not immortal, killing everything = killing everything. Oscar wins.

And Oscar gets axes, and his strength is good, so he has no problems killing things save for the very early game. But Kieran also has his problems in his early chapters, so that doesn't matter a lot, if anything at all.

[Swordsalmon]

Kieran>Oscar. Seriously

Oscar is better at living, while Kieran is better at killing stuff. Kieran doesn't die easily (Oscar's support helps), but Oscar has trouble killing, while Kieran kills easily.

Kieran's lead is more important. Plus he has excellent base stats, and axes pre-promotion.

But this tier list isn't a "Tier List for characters after some time", its a Tier List for the entire game. Kieran will have superior offense before promotion, while Oscar will have problems killing.

Not to mention if Oscar and Kieran each get an A Support, while Oscar gets B Ike, and Kieran B Marcia, Kieran gets +15 Avoid, while Oscar gets +35. It seems like a big difference, but it still won't make Oscar immortal.

I will say that Kieran does have better overall offense, but it's still only slightly better than Oscar's. Both can use Silver weapons after promotion and one-round everything. Oscar's durability is literally immortal, getting at minimum +45% Avoid from Ike A, Kieran B. Also, Oscar has early-game use.

Support-wise, Ike wants Oscar A for some durability, and Marcia wants Kieran B for a slight Avoid boost. Reyson gets Tanith A.

[Tino]

Meh, this works best for supports in my opinion.

Ike: Titania B, Reyson A

Titania: Ike B, Boyd B, Rhys C

Oscar: Tanith A, Kieran B

Boyd: Brom A

Rhys: Titania C

Ilyana: Mordecai A, Zihark B

Marcia: Kieran A, Tanith B

Mist: Jill A, Mordecai B

Mordecai: Ilyana A, Mist B

Kieran: Marcia A, Oscar B

Brom: Boyd A, Zihark B

Zihark: Ilyana B, Brom B

Jill: Mist A

Astrid: Makalov A

Makalov: Astrid A

Reyson: Ike A

Tanith: Oscar A, Marcia B

[Meteor]

Gyppy is one of the members on FEE -_-

I realize Gyppy is a user, hopefully different than the one who posts on IGN. I was more concerned with her/his placement on the tier list.

[Swordsalmon]

Meh, this works best for supports in my opinion.

Ike: Titania B, Reyson A

Titania: Ike B, Boyd B, Rhys C

Oscar: Tanith A, Kieran B

Boyd: Brom A

Rhys: Titania C

Ilyana: Mordecai A, Zihark B

Marcia: Kieran A, Tanith B

Mist: Jill A, Mordecai B

Mordecai: Ilyana A, Mist B

Kieran: Marcia A, Oscar B

Brom: Boyd A, Zihark B

Zihark: Ilyana B, Brom B

Jill: Mist A

Astrid: Makalov A

Makalov: Astrid A

Reyson: Ike A

Tanith: Oscar A, Marcia B

I don't think that's too great. Many characters are weakened by waiting for their supports. I'd rather think a better support list would be like this.

Ike; Oscar A, Titania B

Oscar; Ike A, Kieran B

Titania; Rhys A/B, Ike B, Boyd C

Boyd; Brom A, Titania C/Ulki B

Rhys; Titania A/Mia A, Titania B

Ilyana; Mordecai A, Zihark B

Marica; Kieran A, Tanith B

Mist; Jill A, Mordecai B

Jill; Mist A

Mordecai; Ilyana A, Mist B

Zihark; Brom B, Ilyana B

Reyson; Tanith A, Tormod B

Tanith; Reyson A, Marcia B

Kieran; Marcia A, Oscar B

ReysonxTanith gives the same bonuses as IkexReyson, but allows Ike to gain bonuses from Oscar much longer.

I realize Gyppy is a user, hopefully different than the one who posts on IGN. I was more concerned with her/his placement on the tier list.

They're probably the same...Gyppy is just a bit passionate about her favourite characters. One of my favourite people at FEE. :)

[Don Draper]

I will say that Kieran does have better overall offense, but it's still only slightly better than Oscar's. Both can use Silver weapons after promotion and one-round everything. Oscar's durability is literally immortal, getting at minimum +45% Avoid from Ike A, Kieran B. Also, Oscar has early-game use.

Support-wise, Ike wants Oscar A for some durability, and Marcia wants Kieran B for a slight Avoid boost. Reyson gets Tanith A.

Oscar probably won't A Rank Axes for awhile, so Kieran will continue to one-round what Oscar can't.

Ike A, Kieran B is a bad idea. If Soren is fielded, he'll have much worse durability. Plus, Ike's low movement means Oscar has to stick back more often, meaning Kieran will have to stick back more often. It hurts everyone. Honestly, Ike A is not the best choice. And WTF with Reyson? What does that have to with anything?

[Swordsalmon]

Oscar probably won't A Rank Axes for awhile, so Kieran will continue to one-round what Oscar can't.

Ike A, Kieran B is a bad idea. If Soren is fielded, he'll have much worse durability. Plus, Ike's low movement means Oscar has to stick back more often, meaning Kieran will have to stick back more often. It hurts everyone. Honestly, Ike A is not the best choice. And WTF with Reyson? What does that have to with anything?

Oscar can use Silver Lances at promotion, which is still enough while building Axes. Even with Silver weapons, both characters are one-rounding, but Oscar won't recieve damage ever.

It's doubtful Soren will be fielded, since IkexSoren makes Ike considerably weaker and Soren isn't that great. Besides, Oscar and Ike can easily stat in support range. OscarxIke is the fastest and overall best support in the game.

ReysonxIke is another support option, but he's better with Tanith A, Tormod B.

[Don Draper]

Oscar can use Silver Lances at promotion, which is still enough while building Axes. Even with Silver weapons, both characters are one-rounding, but Oscar won't recieve damage ever.

It's doubtful Soren will be fielded, since IkexSoren makes Ike considerably weaker and Soren isn't that great. Besides, Oscar and Ike can easily stat in support range. OscarxIke is the fastest and overall best support in the game.

ReysonxIke is another support option, but he's better with Tanith A, Tormod B.

You need to replay hard mode. Oscar still has trouble against some enemies after promotion, and definately can't ORKO at 2-Range. And Oscar with A Kieran and B Ike has a mere 15 Avoid over Kieran with A Oscar, B Marcia. Not enough to make him "invincible".

Soren isn't that great? Being the best Sage in the game isn't great? And trading 7.5 Avoid for 1.5 Attack makes Ike "considerably weaker?" LOL

Edited September 23, 2008 by IOS

[Swordsalmon]

You need to replay hard mode. Oscar still has trouble against some enemies after promotion, and definately can't ORKO at 2-Range. And Oscar with A Kieran and B Ike has a mere 15 Avoid over Kieran with A Oscar, B Marcia. Not enough to make him "invincible".

Soren isn't that great? Being the best Sage in the game isn't great? And trading 7.5 Avoid for 1.5 Attack makes Ike "considerably weaker?" LOL

I'm playing another HM. -_- A level 20/1 Oscar has 31 Atk and 17 AS with Silver Lance. Kieran actually has less reliable offense at this point, considering there is only one Silver Axe at promotion (Which could also be used by Boyd and Titania, both with better Attack and AS), while there's two Silver Lances virtually exclusive to Oscar, as his only competition would be an unpromoted Brom.

OscarxKieran A won't happen. At Kieran's joining, Oscar and Ike will have a B support. You're weakening Ike by not giving him Oscar A. Kieran has Marcia A as such. So, Oscar still has a 30% Avoid lead on Kieran.

Ilyana is clearly better than Soren, and Tormod might be as well. Soren is atrocious for quite a while, and never has good durability. Also, SorenxIke is a very slow support, so Ike is being deprived of that Avoid for virtually the entire game.

[Don Draper]

I'm playing another HM. -_- A level 20/1 Oscar has 31 Atk and 17 AS with Silver Lance. Kieran actually has less reliable offense at this point, considering there is only one Silver Axe at promotion (Which could also be used by Boyd and Titania, both with better Attack and AS), while there's two Silver Lances virtually exclusive to Oscar, as his only competition would be an unpromoted Brom.

OscarxKieran A won't happen. At Kieran's joining, Oscar and Ike will have a B support. You're weakening Ike by not giving him Oscar A. Kieran has Marcia A as such. So, Oscar still has a 30% Avoid lead on Kieran.

Ilyana is clearly better than Soren, and Tormod might be as well. Soren is atrocious for quite a while, and never has good durability. Also, SorenxIke is a very slow support, so Ike is being deprived of that Avoid for virtually the entire game.

Boyd and Titania don't need a Silver Axe to one-round. A level 20/1 Kieran has 34 Atk and 17 AS with Silver Axe and B Marcia, which makes a difference. Not to mention he can reliably kill from 2-Range, where Oscar can't.

You're weakening Ike by giving him an A support with a character who won't be in range all the time. -_-

Soren is atrocious for awhile? His stats at Level 6 (Ilyana's Joining Level) are better, and Ilyana has worse durability due to low speed plus no avoid supports. Ilyana also has worse Magic and Speed, which are essential for a Sage. You're probably the only person I know who thinks Ilyana>Soren. Kieran+Oscar happens incredibly fast, and Ike and Oscar still get a B, so he's still getting enough avoid until A support with Soren kicks in. Kieran and Oscar will always be in range of each other too.

Edited September 23, 2008 by IOS

[Swordsalmon]

Boyd and Titania don't need a Silver Axe to one-round. A level 20/1 Kieran has 34 Atk and 17 AS with Silver Axe and B Marcia, which makes a difference. Not to mention he can reliably kill from 2-Range, where Oscar can't.

You're weakening Ike by giving him an A support with a character who won't be in range all the time. -_-

Soren is atrocious for awhile? His stats at Level 6 (Ilyana's Joining Level) are better, and Ilyana has worse durability due to low speed plus no avoid supports. Ilyana also has worse Magic and Speed, which are essential for a Sage. You're probably the only person I know who thinks Ilyana>Soren. Kieran+Oscar happens incredibly fast, and Ike and Oscar still get a B, so he's still getting enough avoid until A support with Soren kicks in. Kieran and Oscar will always be in range of each other too.

...Which is only 3 higher per attack, while Oscar's durability is still much higher. Also, all enemies but Armour Knights are being one-rounded by both, so Kieran's offensive lead really isn't a massive advantage. :/ Also, both characters two-round with Short Spear/Axe.

Ike is usually running to the Gate or Throne, and thus moving first. Support range is three, while their movement difference is two.

Soren is the biggest hindrance in Chapters 4-8, since he's killing like, nothing, and has Rhys-esque durability without the healing. Ilyana has Mordecai A, Zihark B, giving +4 Defense, +1 Attack, and +10% Avoid. Also, Soren's leads on Ilyana in Magic and Speed are around 2-3 for the entire game, which Ilyana makes up for by using Elthunder without AS loss after promotion. Soren can't use higher tomes without losing Avoid, his only way of defending himself.

By around Chapter 15, Ike and Oscar can get their A support. Both characters are getting better bonuses for a longer period of time. IkexSoren A activates around Chapter 26, which is hugely late. At best, Soren will get Ike B.

Finally, it's doubtful that mounted characters will be using their full Movement each turn.

[Don Draper]

...Which is only 3 higher per attack, while Oscar's durability is still much higher. Also, all enemies but Armour Knights are being one-rounded by both, so Kieran's offensive lead really isn't a massive advantage. :/ Also, both characters two-round with Short Spear/Axe.

Ike is usually running to the Gate or Throne, and thus moving first. Support range is three, while their movement difference is two.

Soren is the biggest hindrance in Chapters 4-8, since he's killing like, nothing, and has Rhys-esque durability without the healing. Ilyana has Mordecai A, Zihark B, giving +4 Defense, +1 Attack, and +10% Avoid. Also, Soren's leads on Ilyana in Magic and Speed are around 2-3 for the entire game, which Ilyana makes up for by using Elthunder without AS loss after promotion. Soren can't use higher tomes without losing Avoid, his only way of defending himself.

By around Chapter 15, Ike and Oscar can get their A support. Both characters are getting better bonuses for a longer period of time. IkexSoren A activates around Chapter 26, which is hugely late. At best, Soren will get Ike B.

Finally, it's doubtful that mounted characters will be using their full Movement each turn.

Enemy Stats time!

Let's use average stats at 20/1, Chapter 18. I'll even give you the inferior supports

Oscar: 38 HP, 31 Atk, 124 Accuracy, 89 Avoid, 17 AS 16 Def, 8 Res

Kieran: 38 HP, 34 Atk, 112 Accuracy, 66 Avoid, 17 AS 15 Def 6 Res

Weakest Wyvern Riders: 32 HP, 24 Atk, 93 Acc, 15 Def

Strongest Wyvern Riders: 33 HP, 24 Atk, 97 Acc, 16 Def

Oscar can't ORKO every Wyvern Rider, while Kieran can

Knights: 32 HP, 20 Atk, 91 Acc, 17 Def

Oscar can't ORKO, while Kieran can

General: 33 HP, 22-24 Atk, 93 Acc, 18 Def

Oscar can't ORKO, while Kieran can (Weapon Triangle)

Out of 21 non-boss enemies, Oscar can't ORKO 6 of them. That's almost a third of the enemies he can't ORKO. Not to mention that both character's durability is overkilled (The Highest Hit Rate any enemy has is an Archer, with 107 Hit. Kieran has 41 Listed Hit, and he takes 4 Damage. LOL). Almost every enemy has Lances, so he'll be dodging everything anyways (Even Wyvern Riders have 21 Hit and deal 9 Damage) So they both have overkill durability, but Kieran is killing everything in one round. He does this even more so before promotion. Kieran>Oscar. Plus, Paladins should be getting Sol (Who else besides Ike needs an Occult anywa

And seriously, Oscar will not always be in range of Ike. If we're going for max B-Exp, and max efficiency, Oscar won't be in range of Ike AT LEAST half the time. He WILL be using as much movement as possible, as well as taking advantage of Canto. Plus, Soren (The superior Sage, more on this later) needs the durability from Ike.

Now Soren. He needs a bit of babying when you get him, but so do Makalov and Astrid, should we knock them down? Plus Ilyana needs perhaps more babying due to never doubling. Ilyana has similar defense and worse offense then Soren because of mediocre speed throughout. Soren can reliably double, while Ilyana cannot. Because of that, Ilyana being able to use heavier tomes is irrelevant, Soren can just switch to heavier tombs if he goes against an enemy with low AS. The only thing Ilyana really has over Soren is supports.

Ilyana can use Elthunder with no AS loss at promotion? Big deal. If they promote at Chapter 18, Ilyana @ 15 AS and Elthunder and Soren @ 18 AS and Elwind, Ilyana can't double nearly any Soldier, the Halberdier, Archers, Fighters, Sages, or Cavaliers. Soren doubles all of them, ORKOing nearly everything except Sages.

I really don't understand why you just shrug off 2-3 point advantages, when they make the difference between doubling, or killing.

Edited September 23, 2008 by IOS

[Masu]

*facepalms*

ONCE AGAIN, how can you make a tier list for a game with RANDOM stat growths!?

[Tino]

Already answered it. If you have nothing to add, please don't post.

[Rehab]

You have Astrid higher than Nephenee. That's odd.

[CGV]

*facepalms*

ONCE AGAIN, how can you make a tier list for a game with RANDOM stat growths!?

I think they try to do the best they can with averges, which personally I think is still a little vague especially for the longer games because stats can spread out more and more, but I don't think it's not a completely bad idea to try and use averages, I just think it will only get you so far

[sandmanccl]

All averages do is tell you who's more likely to gain any given stat than some other unit. That's all. Fun thing about actually playing Fire Emblem is that more often than not, a guy with good growths in some area gets screwed so you have to dump him in order to use someone else once that character gets pigeon-holed into mediocrity at best.

My current POR file, I was planning on using all 3 of the brothers, but Oscar only had 9 speed at level 14 and was getting double-attacked by enemies with axes. Sorry, mate. Not gonna use you. I'm fielding Mordecai, Brom, Makalov, and Astrid because none of them take any damage from enemies. Rhys and Mist rarely have anything to do other than push Reyson around for fun.

Tier lists are useless in a random environment because my current playthrough doesn't match up with the tier list at all. If it was indeed something iron-set in fact, that wouldn't be the case.

add: Also Soren is beating Ilyana in literally every stat but Luck. Not that Ilyana is bad, but Soren is hardly "crappy". Anyone that starts out automatically with Adept (arguably the best non-Occult skill in the game) cannot be bad.

Edited September 23, 2008 by sandmanccl

[Reikken]

All averages do is tell you who's more likely to gain any given stat than some other unit. That's all. Fun thing about actually playing Fire Emblem is that more often than not, a guy with good growths in some area gets screwed so you have to dump him in order to use someone else once that character gets pigeon-holed into mediocrity at best.

Cool fact: This game has a mode in which stat deviation from the average is extremely limited. It's accessible after completing the game once.

Anyway, you seem to have the wrong idea about tier lists. Tier lists reflect who's more likely to be better than whoever else.

Oscar can use Silver Lances at promotion, which is still enough while building Axes. Even with Silver weapons, both characters are one-rounding, but Oscar won't recieve damage ever.

Receiving damage isn't a bad thing. Dying is what you want to avoid. Sure, Kieran will take damage, but he won't take enough of it to have any significant negative impact.

And they do indeed both one-round things. However, Kieran one-rounds more things than Oscar does.

It's doubtful Soren will be fielded, since IkexSoren makes Ike considerably weaker and Soren isn't that great. Besides, Oscar and Ike can easily stat in support range. OscarxIke is the fastest and overall best support in the game.

Ike is better off supporting Soren than not. That +1 atk comes in handy.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Reikken

[CGV]

Cool fact: This game has a mode in which stat deviation from the average is extremely limited. It's accessible after completing the game once

Anyway, you seem to have the wrong idea about tier lists. Tier lists reflect who's more likely to be better than whoever else

I'm not sure we're talking about fixed mode. Come to think of it, have the debates even mentioned what mode it is? It probably has, but I've been going off of random mode

THANK YOU!!! You said "more likely" and not "are"

(to everyone) I don't care if a tier list that's aiming at units being "more likely" ends up having a lot of units over Rolf, Mia, Soren, or whoever else is getting a lot of hate that I like. (Just an example) If Makalov will "more likely" end up better than Mia on a list that puts together averages/supports/weapons/whatever I honestly will be cool with that. Sure, he'll probably end up better, but that still doesn't mean Mia sucks. Makalov is just "more likely" to turn out gooder (yes, i said "gooder")

[Liz]

tier lists are just that, suggestions.

just because there's a unit that's high tier doesn't mean he will be automatically a "God unit" or that a low tier will automatically be a "trash unit"