Marriage and Romance Speculation and Discussion Topic

[B.Leu]

Well, there is the fact that this is still a touchy subject, and that even in Bioware, it's not done that well.

Tales of ? Same sex couples ? I'm surprised. I wonder how it's done.

[GinRei]

If you're going with "not outright stated, but all but proclaimed", then Fire Emblem did this back during 9/10 with Ike and Soren.

And when we get children who look very similar to core Awakening characters... yes, designing replacement kids might be too much effort to ask for.

Tales of ? Same sex couples ? I'm surprised. I wonder how it's done.

Bromance to the max.

Edited June 18, 2015 by GinRei

[capmalachi]

Not all writers are against using those in writing.

Fair enough. Almost never want to use magic for making kids. I'm not familiar with the fate/stay night lore and can't think of any other examples of it happening, but you're right that it's surely happened once or twice by simple virtue of just how many stories involve magic.

[UnknownUber]

Updated Op.

Also, Felica's confession image.

I almost died due to the cuteness...

[Nanima]

If you're going with "not outright stated, but all but proclaimed", then Fire Emblem did this back during 9/10 with Ike and Soren.

And when we get children who look very similar to core Awakening characters... yes, designing replacement kids might be too much effort to ask for.

Bromance to the max.

Were denied by the existence of Priam.

Also remind me if I am wrong, but did they have convos like this:

http://lookiamnotcreative.tumblr.com/post/113686872927/an-alternate-translation-to-this-skit-correcting

Anyway, my point stands: if they have enough character spaces to fill them with Awakening expies, we could have had adoptive kids.

[B.Leu]

Bromance to the max.

Eh, I guess that if you look deep into it you can see Ike/Soren, but ah... it's open enough to interpretation...

But I want to ask for Zestiria: Is it really a same-sex romance, or is it just your common shonen friendship ?

Edited June 18, 2015 by B.Leu

[gadaursan]

Kay. Let's take a japanese game then. Tales of Zestiria is the first Tales game to feature a gay main couple. It's not stated outright, but it's all but proclaimed.

And what about Fire Emblem makes it impossible to include same-sex couples? The kids? Please, there is adoption, and if you want to say: "That takes too much effort with everything involved", come on in a game filled with so many characters would it have really been so difficult to design replacement kid orphans?

FE4 had replacement kids if your units died on you. That's clearly no excuse.

Yay, someone mentioned Tales of Zestiria! The main couple was strongly implied, but wasn't there a big outrage in the fandom over that? Part of it was because Bandai Namco sorta misled people about the heroine/love interest for the game, but also part due to some degree of homophobia. I'm not sure how much that has hurt Bandai, but thankfully they haven't faltered from their position about the subject, and they seem to be doing okay.

There are some other big Japanese games that have given the player the option to romance characters of the same gender (Tales had a gay option before Zestiria), but I'm not sure how it could be handled if it happened to a Fire Emblem game. I'd love to see more options, but I can't imagine the outrage could be easily quelled as easily, not to mention that Fire Emblem is trying to reach a more mainstream audience.

[Crooks]

Were denied by the existence of Priam.

Also remind me if I am wrong, but did they have convos like this:

http://lookiamnotcreative.tumblr.com/post/113686872927/an-alternate-translation-to-this-skit-correcting

Anyway, my point stands: if they have enough character spaces to fill them with Awakening expies, we could have had adoptive kids.

Eh, Priam states that he's related to Ike. Both English and Japanese, too. There's more ways to be related to someone than direct descendant. Could be a nephew or something. Or, Ike could've had a surrogate mother. Or, one of them could've been transgender (probably Soren if at all). Unlikely, but, it wasn't stated that he's Ike's child, anyways.

If I can't get with a guy while playing as a guy, IDK if I'll get married in my male runs. That's just me, though. ...also assuming it's not required, like Chrom.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Crooks

[Iron Griffin]

*Eats another bag of popcorn*

I don't think Zestiria was optional. I thought that was the main couple?

[Nanima]

Eh, I guess that if you look deep into it you can see Ike/Soren, but ah... it's open to interpretation, let's say.

But I want to ask for Zenitiria: Is it really a same-sex romance, or is it just your common shonen friendship ?

See previous page. But it's pretty clear, the developers went out of their way to say that pairing sorey with the girls in the game "would not work", and that mikleo is sorey's "one and only". The story itself places Mikleo in scenes usually reserved for the heroine. Then there is official art like this: http://i.imgur.com/UXilgE4.png, https://twitter.com/hikaruufo/status/568314633821364224.

I could go on, but I don't want to derail the thread.

Suffice to say, it's more than just friendship that people are interpreting too much into.

There will always be backlash on same sex romantic relationships, but guess what people still buy games that include them. Bioware is raking in loads of cash. Japanese games have had gay options before with no reprisal from their audience. Japan's attitudes towards homosexuality are different from the west. Instead of outright homophobia it's usually seen as a "phase". Something you outgrow.

I don't think it would harm the series.

[GinRei]

Eh, I guess that if you look deep into it you can see Ike/Soren, but ah... it's open to interpretation, let's say.

But I want to ask for Zenitiria: Is it really a same-sex romance, or is it just your common shonen friendship ?

Actually meant the bromance for Zestiria. To the point that all of one of the character's lines could be said by a female and be one of the strongest ships since Abyss.

Yay, someone mentioned Tales of Zestiria! The main couple was strongly implied, but wasn't there a big outrage in the fandom over that? Part of it was because Bandai Namco sorta misled people about the heroine/love interest for the game, but also part due to some degree of homophobia. I'm not sure how much that has hurt Bandai, but thankfully they haven't faltered from their position about the subject, and they seem to be doing okay.

I've been following the Zestiria debacle and not a single iota of it is about the bromance. It's all about shady marketing and the removal of a character who was promoted (both in terms of merchandise and official description of the game and her character) as the main heroine, and the subsequent cover-up of said promotion to try to act like it never happened. She was also in the original trailers in boss battles that occurred long after she left the party, and the stores continue selling her weapons as they would any other character long after she leaves. The story also apparently abruptly drops her with poor reasoning and no real reaction from the rest of the cast while bringing in another female character who is above all story rules that they had previously built up.

[The DanMan]

If you're going with "not outright stated, but all but proclaimed", then Fire Emblem did this back during 9/10 with Ike and Soren.

And when we get children who look very similar to core Awakening characters... yes, designing replacement kids might be too much effort to ask for.

Bromance to the max.

There's a difference between that. With Zestiria, every single other pairing was shot-down pre-release by the director of the game, before it was said that there was something "special" between the two characters, and it even became something of a plot-point. They're implied to even sleep in the same bed.

With Ike/Soren there's still the subtext of close childhood friends, but no official word or outside hints nudging it one way or the other.

But anyway: as formerly Leon of Nohr, I'm not mad about this anymore; I'm just thoroughly dissapointed. I'll still probably buy the game and enjoy it, but IntSys: way to put a damper on my (and many other's) hype.

[B.Leu]

Why would it not work ?...
Eh, this look like your usual shonen friendship, but if they're doing some official art about it, I guess that yes, it is pretty special...

That, or Namco is trying way too hard to make their games smarter, or they're just trying to get attention. Wouldn't be surprising considering how their writing sucks. Well, I say that judging for the games just before Zestiria, such as Abyss and Vesperia, since I obviously don't even know anything about Zestiria.

...This topic sounds like a hot spot, we should stop talking about it, and I'm sorry for bringing it up. :/

EDIT: Oh ? They sleep in the same bed ? All the time ? That's actually 'special'.
Of course it could be a childhood thing, like I said, I don't know much about Zestiria.

Edited June 18, 2015 by B.Leu

[gadaursan]

*Eats another bag of popcorn*

I don't think Zestiria was optional. I thought that was the main couple?

I think it was Tales of Symphonia. If you stacked up enough relationship points with a certain male character in your party, he replaces the love interest role for the rest of the game.

Sorry, but this might be getting off topic. I think our original point was that there are other games with a gay option, so why not in Fire Emblem? I'm not really minding the implications of the marriage mechanic very much anymore now, though it is a bit disappointing. It's something that happens a lot now, so I just resignedly accept it.

[Nanima]

I think I am just going to stay celibate in the game out of protest. Rinkah will too damnit. It's the only thing I will use the amie feature for. That and pinch Takumi's/Leo's cheek like an annoying aunt,

Edited June 18, 2015 by Nanima²

[egobarrier]

I'm sorry, but if you're going to continue this Zestiria detail could you stick it in spoiler tags? I've tried hard to remain in the dark... :(

[AnimusMage]

It sucks when a game series I love basically tells me "Nope sorry, people like you don't exist. Now let me explain how the dragon transformation is going to work and then I'll show you ten different kinds of flying pegasi!!"

I'm not even asking for adoption. Just the abilty to have my avatar share my sexual orientation and have at least one or two people to be happy with.

Guess, Bioware just spoiled me.

Same here. It's most of the reason I was bitter about kids returning in the first place, really. What if I want my avatar to never romance anyone without feeling like I'm missing something important?

[gadaursan]

Same here. It's most of the reason I was bitter about kids returning in the first place, really. What if I want my avatar to never romance anyone without feeling like I'm missing something important?

Children have been and will likely be optional, so I don't think we'll be missing out on very much aside from extra support conversations. I can't really see the existence of children really changing the narrative of the games, which was making a choice between your families and either defending or reforming your country. Perhaps having actual children of your own, or knowing that you will have children, could strengthen you resolve to do what you need to do, but it probably won't be that major.

[noakai]

Since someone mentioned it, I would find it amusing if Nohr is the kingdom where the popular Awakening kids show up as adult party members and Hoshido was the one where the other popular Awakening kids showed up as your new child. I bet that would make picking a game harder for some people lol.

[Iron Griffin]

I wont lie I go to the Bioware forums sometimes just to watch the salt flow on all sides. I could not believe how many straight guys lost their crap when they only had Cassandra and Josephine because straight women had 4 options to their 2 options even though they were in the same boat as the folks of LGBT community who had the same number(Except Bisexual characters for obvious reasons).

Then there were the folks on lesbian side who were angry that the rude elf was their main option and that very character became a sort of scrappy within the fandom.

Bioware can be a storm of sadness for all.

My fond memories aside it does really suck that there are no same sex pairings but I would be lying if I said I wasn't kind of hoping that the game returned to its roots a bit in general and sort of drop the system for now although at the same time I happy its sticking around..

Edited June 18, 2015 by Iron Griffin

[AnimusMage]

Children have been and will likely be optional, so I don't think we'll be missing out on very much aside from extra support conversations. I can't really see the existence of children really changing the narrative of the games, which was making a choice between your families and either defending or reforming your country. Perhaps having actual children of your own, or knowing that you will have children, could strengthen you resolve to do what you need to do, but it probably won't be that major.

True, Chrom is literally the only person in Awakening who has to get married, but doesn't Lucina mention having traveled with others even if nobody else gets married? And you'd end up missing out on a lot of characters.

The romance in Awakening just felt really pushed, is what I'm trying to say.

[Nanima]

I'm sorry, but if you're going to continue this Zestiria detail could you stick it in spoiler tags? I've tried hard to remain in the dark... :(

Sorry for the derail. I'm done now.

Same here. It's most of the reason I was bitter about kids returning in the first place, really. What if I want my avatar to never romance anyone without feeling like I'm missing something important?

Another good point. I know a lot of peple are happy about the kids existing, but for me they are a disappointment in more ways than one.

If they are truly optional then it's fine I guess. I'll live.

But they really shouldn't affect a plot that is more about sibling relations and complex (by FE standards) political maneuvers anyway. Awakening had a bare bones plot which the kids added to in their own way. (I actually liked Awakening kids mechanic, minus exclusion obviously)

Kids just don't seem to fit Fates. Maybe it will make sense once it's out but..

Edited June 18, 2015 by Nanima²

[Iron Griffin]

Maybe things will take a dark turn and kill off the first generation for the next?

[EJ107]

Sorry, but this might be getting off topic. I think our original point was that there are other games with a gay option, so why not in Fire Emblem? I'm not really minding the implications of the marriage mechanic very much anymore now, though it is a bit disappointing. It's something that happens a lot now, so I just resignedly accept it.

It's not even the lack of same-sex options for Kamui that bothers me, since I honestly don't mind too much about that, it's that out of the 60+ characters and numerous romantic relations you can foster among your troops there is not a single same sex relationship or gay/ lesbian person. Even if it was just two guys/girls who can't S rank with anyone but each other and have no kid I would be happy. Hell, i'd settle for one forever alone unit who simply wasn't interested in the opposite gender, since in Awakening literally every single unit could marry the opposite gender protagonist. Why do our armies consist entirely of straight single people?

Edited June 18, 2015 by EJ107

[DualMix]

True, Chrom is literally the only person in Awakening who has to get married, but doesn't Lucina mention having traveled with others even if nobody else gets married? And you'd end up missing out on a lot of characters.

The romance in Awakening just felt really pushed, is what I'm trying to say.

At that point, it's personal opinion. I never thought romance was pushed, it was fun to do. I liked the supports. The children... eh. I eventually got them for getting all the supports but I never felt like I needed to get them. Sure I miss out on a few characters but I liked the characters I had already and I didn't want to go through the trouble.

Except for Morgan. Cause she's Daddy's Little Girl.