i'm feeling pretty mixed about the face rubbing thing

[BrightBow]

And what's wrong with that blanket?

Someone could tell me they're a big fan of Hyperdimension Neptunia and just want to play a game about sexualized, questionably-aged anime chicks without being judged as a creep. But... that sort of thing is creepy, and liking creepy things implies you might, well, be a creep.

Same applies to face-touching. It's one thing to enjoy it ironically, but if you're getting genuinely excited over the prospect of calling up a fictional love interest to your private quarters and feeling them up to build support points, a little judgment seems perfectly acceptable.

I am really not a fan of that label in this context. Being called creepy implies that what you are doing is wrong and that you should feel bad about it. And that's not a thing that I would say about something that only involves fictional characters awkward as it may be.

Besides, people are into all kinds of stuff. And the mainstream's arrogance to decide what is normal and to belittle all alternative tastes is a large reason why I am in opposition to the current direction of the franchise in the first place, because it should be okay to be different and unique and there should be products for all kinds of tastes.

[Swirl-Theory]

And what's wrong with that blanket?

Someone could tell me they're a big fan of Hyperdimension Neptunia and just want to play a game about sexualized, questionably-aged anime chicks without being judged as a creep. But... that sort of thing is creepy, and liking creepy things implies you might, well, be a creep.

Same applies to face-touching. It's one thing to enjoy it ironically, but if you're getting genuinely excited over the prospect of calling up a fictional love interest to your private quarters and feeling them up to build support points, a little judgment seems perfectly acceptable.

That's just really insulting to people who are actually looking forward to this feature. You don't have to be some basement-dwelling otaku to like this simple face-rub mechanic.

Look, I know that going up to a person in real life and stroking their face is extremely creepy if they're strangers/don't want you to touch them, but this is a game. The characters you will be doing this to already know you and are apparently perfectly fine with you doing this sort of thing, if it bothers you so much.

Why are you getting so worked up over a simple mechanic in a game? Yes, it's a new thing in FE, but it is by no means a creepy feature in itself.

And also, "feeling them up"? You're literally just touching their face, nothing else.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Swirl-Theory

[BrightBow]

That's just really insulting to people who are actually looking forward to this feature. You don't have to be some basement-dwelling otaku to like this simple face-rub mechanic.

Look, I know that going up to a person in real life and stroking their face is extremely creepy if they're strangers/don't want you to touch them, but this is a game. The characters you will be doing this to already know you and are apparently perfectly fine with you doing this sort of thing, if it bothers you so much.

Why are you getting so worked up over a simple mechanic in a game? Yes, it's a new thing in FE, but it is by no means a creepy feature in itself.

And also, "feeling them up"? You're literally just touching their face, nothing else.

Well, sure, it's insulting to call other people this and therefore one shouldn't do that, but everyone else is perfectly in the right to be creped out by this and this perspective is just as valid as the opposite.

And I don't think anyone minds it because it is "new" but because they think it's a really shitty way to bound with someone. For crying out loud, you are petting them. That's not how you treat friends, comrades or lovers. Or really any human being.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BrightBow

[Random Person]

I, for one, will punch your lights out if you touch my face, and I didn't give you permission to do so.

Because of this, I know I'm inherently biased against it. I don't like being touched/touching others unless I know you very, VERY well, and this is one of those things that transfer over to anything (whether it be cringy moments in movies or forced-touching in a video game). However, if this is how other people bond. . .so be it. I'll probably ignore this feature.

Isn't what basically happened in trailer?

They know each other very well, they like it (commentaries from Joker and Felicia) and they happy with it.

On topic of whole skinship thing - i'll use that just to see character reaction.

[Swirl-Theory]

Well, sure, it's insulting to call other people this and therefore one shouldn't do that, but everyone else is perfectly in the right to be creped out by this and this perspective is just as valid as the opposite.

And I don't think anyone minds it because it is "new" but because they think it's a really shitty way to bound with someone. For crying out loud, you are petting them. That's not how you treat friends, comrades or lovers. Or really any human being.

Which is why I clearly stated that it was a game. There really is no need for people to get so disturbed over a feature that was probably meant as something innocent.

It's a way to bond with someone in the game, that's it, not a big deal.

[EJ107]

I don't see how this is "An inevitable extension of Awakening" or "Trying to appeal to the Awakening crowd". I found Awakening's relationship system incredibly fun and really enjoyed it, but what I liked about it was pairing the different characters with each other and seeing how those relationships played out. That was what made it so engaging for me, not projecting myself onto the pre-defined Avatar.

So while I don't mind the new amie mechanic and will likely use it for laughs and the support bonuses, It's hardly a feature I'm particuarly excited by, despite being a fan of Awakenings relationship system.

Edited June 1, 2015 by EJ107

[Saleh]

A lot of the "creepiness" factor comes in with context? Like if it's limited to your siblings and people you have A rank(s) with than its fine but it kind of gets weird if you can rub like. everyones face not to mention that you are a royal and touching some random mercenary's face in your room would probably cause a huge scandal.

It's not that I'm against the face petting thing, but it just seems really out of place in a Fire Emblem game. I'd rather they put this in DLC or a spin off or something, but at least it's optional.

[Wyvern_Lord]

not to mention that you are a royal and touching some random mercenary's face in your room would probably cause a huge scandal.

A noble or prince of a higher class marrying some random Low born Woman/man with no consequences is hardly new for fire emblem

[BrightBow]

A noble or prince of a higher class marrying some random Low born Woman/man with no consequences is hardly new for fire emblem

A Lord telling one of their servants to come to his room to touch her... is rather new.

It's a completely unequal relationship. Not just in player x character interaction (obviously the characters can't actually touch the player back. They are entirely passive, simply existing to please the player with their body and their cute reactions to getting touched in her sensitive spots. That's not really bonding.) but also in the interactions between the actual characters. Kamui doing things like this to his own servants would even be messed up in-universe.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BrightBow

[Blue Sun]

Opinions: can't stand them, can't live with without them.

[Wyvern_Lord]

A Lord telling one of their servants to come to his room to touch her... is rather new.

It's a completely unequal relationship. Not just in player x character interaction (obviously the characters can't actually touch the player back. They are entirely passive, simply existing to please the player with their body and their cute reactions to getting touched in her sensitive spots. That's not really bonding.) but also in the interactions between the actual characters. Kamui doing things like this to his own servants would even be messed up in-universe.

Royalty inviting people into their room to "touch them" sounds like the most realistic Royal to commoner relationship we've had in this series yet

[IceBrand]

Come now people, don't be one sided and put another down to feel better about yourself. You say someone playing a game with lots of sexuality is for perverts and creeps, but yet if they play a game with ultra violence , not a word is said.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Noble Rapier

[BrightBow]

Royalty inviting people into their room to "touch them" sounds like the most realistic Royal to commoner relationship we've had in this series yet

Yes. That is exactly what I wanted to say.

[xaszatm]

Honestly, this thing is completely harmless. It's probably going to be completely optional as since your avatar will be in every mission given his main character status, he/she will probably raise supports naturally with the other characters. So unless you really want a certain character to be S supported as fast as possible, I don't see the face rubbing thing ever used.

As for the face-rubbing itself...there's been so much worse in both eastern and western games that I don't understand the complaints. We've had sex QTEs and "massage" minigames and straight up fortification in both western and eastern games that this "face-rubbing" is quite honestly innocent by comparison. I can't really build up any outrage on the subject. It's not even creepy.

[capmalachi]

simply existing to please the player

That's generally what characters in video games are for, yes.

Honestly this whole thing is silly. It's a harmless mini-game.

I do like how people who want to think of it as creepy keep describing it in terms of male Kamui inviting female characters to his room, no mention of inviting male characters or female Kamui at all. I don't think it's a concious decision, I just find it interesting.

Besides, we don't even know what's actually happening when Kamui 'touches' their soldiers. There's probably more to it than 'come to my room so I can rub your face'.

Edited June 1, 2015 by capmalachi

[Wildshot]

12 hours ago I was thinking: "You know, I can rest easy knowing IS will not waste resources on a mode where you bring your unsuspecting comrades into your room and rub them in the face as if they were animals."

At this point nothing is impossible.

I will be impressed if you actually had those exact thoughts at that time.

Blame the so-called "true fans" for not buying enough pre-Awakening FE games, there a reason why IS decided to cater to a broader audience instead of just old-schooler. Nearly 2 millions sold, fans voted with their wallet on the direction of the series. Awakening fandom like waifus and they will get waifus stuffs.

P.S the husbando as the well.

Sounds like Endgame.

This is not a good thing.

Don't let it rub you the wrong way

YARHARHARHAR

I know what you mean. The ones that are really getting to me are the "This should have been Hoshido only" comments. Why do people like me, who want a new experience and play new classes after 13 games of the exact same thing, get this weaboo stigma thrown in our faces?

Androgynous characters? Better be Hoshido only! Thats the weaboo version.

Face rubbing? Better be Hoshido only!

It pisses me off

I haven't even heard this crud on GameFAQs. Where've you been getting this?

Finally the years of playing TokiMemo will pay off.

But so long as this is a side thing, or treated like in the series mentioned above, it should be fine. Though luring people to your room to touch them IS a bit creepy.

On that note the fact the feature doesn't seem to be gender locked is intriguing. Now if that carries over to actual supports is a different story. A story that could send tumblr and other horde-minded sites into a frenzy considering the bait they were just tossed.

That's one of the biggest beefs that I have with this. Why are you specifically calling somebody into your room to do this? Also, why stroke the face of somebody you're not... romantically involved with?

I, for one, will punch your lights out if you touch my face, and I didn't give you permission to do so.

Because of this, I know I'm inherently biased against it. I don't like being touched/touching others unless I know you very, VERY well, and this is one of those things that transfer over to anything (whether it be cringy moments in movies or forced-touching in a video game). However, if this is how other people bond. . .so be it. I'll probably ignore this feature.

Seriously, this is another thing. I can see Elise or Sakura being into this sort of thing, but... Rinka? Harold? Gunter? How many of these characters, realistically speaking, are going to want you stroking their faces?

When this was first revealed, I was thinking "Yeah, this sounds so adorable and fun!" Now... I'm considerably less optimistic. My hope is that they'll pull some schtick that makes it that you can only do this with somebody you've S-Ranked... or, barring that, that you lose the ability to do this once you've S-Ranked (save to the person who you S-Ranked).

Edited June 1, 2015 by Wildshot

[feplus]

Being called creepy implies that what you are doing is wrong and that you should feel bad about it.

Precisely. Certain preferences are distasteful and warrant judgment. To demonstrate this, let's start with an extreme case and work our way back:

The consumption of animated child pornography is deeply distasteful (and, depending on jurisdiction, criminal); surely you'd have no objection to me judging a consumer of animated child pornography for being a creep. Animated child sexualization isn't quite as bad, but still creepy. And animated questionably-aged sexualization is less bad still, but also a curious preference.

So where do we draw the line? If we grant that judging the consumption of animated child pornography as creepy is acceptable, why not also conclude that consuming animated child sexualization is creepy, or that playing a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia is creepy? They're different degrees of the same activity: admiring the bodies of underage / questionably-aged girls.

Same approach works for If's face-rubbing. Is it creepy to fantasize about having a harem of lovers, bringing them up to your room, and rubbing their faces for your own personal enjoyment? Of course. No one would bat an eye if you called this preference a creepy one. If's system is a lesser degree of the same activity.

I can see no un-creepy reason for enjoying the face-rubbing mechanic (beyond ironic enjoyment), so judging those who're looking forward to the inclusion as creeps seems perfectly justified.

Look, I know that going up to a person in real life and stroking their face is extremely creepy if they're strangers/don't want you to touch them, but this is a game. The characters you will be doing this to already know you and are apparently perfectly fine with you doing this sort of thing, if it bothers you so much.

It should go without saying that creepy behavior in the context of a fictional escape (like gaming) is still creepy behavior. Enjoying animated child pornography is an apt, albeit extreme, example. Or consider that new "Yahndere Simulator" where the otaku fantasy of having an obsessed, attractive stalker is fulfilled. That game is incredibly off-putting despite being fictional.

You say someone playing a game with lots of sexuality is for perverts and creeps, but yet if they play a game with ultra violence , not a word is said.

Probably best not to make assumptions. People often do judge gamers who enjoy games featuring ultra violence, sometimes with good reason. It's hard to imagine why a game like Manhunt would appeal to a mentally stable individual.

[Wildshot]

Precisely. Certain preferences are distasteful and warrant judgment. To demonstrate this, let's start with an extreme case and work our way back:

The consumption of animated child pornography is deeply distasteful (and, depending on jurisdiction, criminal); surely you'd have no objection to me judging a consumer of animated child pornography for being a creep. Animated child sexualization isn't quite as bad, but still creepy. And animated questionably-aged sexualization is less bad still, but also a curious preference.

So where do we draw the line? If we grant that judging the consumption of animated child pornography as creepy is acceptable, why not also conclude that consuming animated child sexualization is creepy, or that playing a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia is creepy? They're different degrees of the same activity: admiring the bodies of underage / questionably-aged girls.

Same approach works for If's face-rubbing. Is it creepy to fantasize about having a harem of lovers, bringing them up to your room, and rubbing their faces for your own personal enjoyment? Of course. No one would bat an eye if you called this preference a creepy one. If's system is a lesser degree of the same activity.

I can see no un-creepy reason for enjoying the face-rubbing mechanic (beyond ironic enjoyment), so judging those who're looking forward to the inclusion as creeps seems perfectly justified.

It should go without saying that creepy behavior in the context of a fictional escape (like gaming) is still creepy behavior. Enjoying animated child pornography is an apt, albeit extreme, example. Or consider that new "Yahndere Simulator" where the otaku fantasy of having an obsessed, attractive stalker is fulfilled. That game is incredibly off-putting despite being fictional.

Probably best not to make assumptions. People often do judge gamers who enjoy games featuring ultra violence, sometimes with good reason. It's hard to imagine why a game like Manhunt would appeal to a mentally stable individual.

...Interesting. I've an odd request: would you consider making a GameFAQs account, if only for a few days? There's a couple of people that I want you to debate with on some of this stuff. (I assume that you're anti-lolicon.)

[Belmont]

Except my brother plays Neptunia cause he enjoys the gameplay. He doesnt give a fuck about the girls(he's not into women).

[Topazd]

There definitely is an audience for such mechanics. I'll still have to question whether this is a direction Fire Emblem should be taking - I don't see this leading to anything beneficial.

[Belmont]

There definitely is an audience for such mechanics. I'll still have to question whether this is a direction Fire Emblem should be taking - I don't see this leading to anything beneficial.

It leads to sales which is the most beneficial thing for IS.

[BrightBow]

Precisely. Certain preferences are distasteful and warrant judgment. To demonstrate this, let's start with an extreme case and work our way back:

The consumption of animated child pornography is deeply distasteful (and, depending on jurisdiction, criminal); surely you'd have no objection to me judging a consumer of animated child pornography for being a creep. Animated child sexualization isn't quite as bad, but still creepy. And animated questionably-aged sexualization is less bad still, but also a curious preference.

So where do we draw the line? If we grant that judging the consumption of animated child pornography as creepy is acceptable, why not also conclude that consuming animated child sexualization is creepy, or that playing a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia is creepy? They're different degrees of the same activity: admiring the bodies of underage / questionably-aged girls.

Same approach works for If's face-rubbing. Is it creepy to fantasize about having a harem of lovers, bringing them up to your room, and rubbing their faces for your own personal enjoyment? Of course. No one would bat an eye if you called this preference a creepy one. If's system is a lesser degree of the same activity.

I can see no un-creepy reason for enjoying the face-rubbing mechanic (beyond ironic enjoyment), so judging those who're looking forward to the inclusion as creeps seems perfectly justified.

Man, it's really telling about the state of the franchise that we are even having this conversation.

Anyway, I know quite well were I would draw the line.

Child pornography is detestable because it's production and consumption will inevitable involve child abuse in various ways. In animated pornography, this is not really the case, so I don't really see a reason to judge that one any differently then regular pornography. Just because I am creped out by it, doesn't mean others should.

I just don't think Fire Emblem should deliberately aim to provide stroking material like this just because the poor folks at IS are a bit desperate because they are not allowed to watch actual porn at work.

It leads to sales which is the most beneficial thing for IS.

Really? Because I got the impression that most people are rather disturbed by it. I doubt this nets them more customers then it costs them. Edit: Why should we care what's beneficial for IS anyway? We don't know these guys.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BrightBow

[Magical CC]

Precisely. Certain preferences are distasteful and warrant judgment. To demonstrate this, let's start with an extreme case and work our way back:

The consumption of animated child pornography is deeply distasteful (and, depending on jurisdiction, criminal); surely you'd have no objection to me judging a consumer of animated child pornography for being a creep. Animated child sexualization isn't quite as bad, but still creepy. And animated questionably-aged sexualization is less bad still, but also a curious preference.

So where do we draw the line? If we grant that judging the consumption of animated child pornography as creepy is acceptable, why not also conclude that consuming animated child sexualization is creepy, or that playing a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia is creepy? They're different degrees of the same activity: admiring the bodies of underage / questionably-aged girls.

Same approach works for If's face-rubbing. Is it creepy to fantasize about having a harem of lovers, bringing them up to your room, and rubbing their faces for your own personal enjoyment? Of course. No one would bat an eye if you called this preference a creepy one. If's system is a lesser degree of the same activity.

I can see no un-creepy reason for enjoying the face-rubbing mechanic (beyond ironic enjoyment), so judging those who're looking forward to the inclusion as creeps seems perfectly justified.

It should go without saying that creepy behavior in the context of a fictional escape (like gaming) is still creepy behavior. Enjoying animated child pornography is an apt, albeit extreme, example. Or consider that new "Yahndere Simulator" where the otaku fantasy of having an obsessed, attractive stalker is fulfilled. That game is incredibly off-putting despite being fictional.

Probably best not to make assumptions. People often do judge gamers who enjoy games featuring ultra violence, sometimes with good reason. It's hard to imagine why a game like Manhunt would appeal to a mentally stable individual.

Except for the girls in Neptunia is cute in a non-sexual way which you will know if you actually play the game and care about the characters and story instead of whining like a kid. There's nothing wrong with looking at a kid and say she's cute. By your logic, all kid models and actresses/actors are there to satisfy pedophiles? And Disney is a den of evil? Or are there any hidden meaning in what you said? I bet you will call me a zoophilia sicker something if you see me petting a puppy? A same activity with different degrees and different purposes and different meanings are totally different things which I doubt you will be able to understand. Killing a dog is bad but killing a dog because it's dangerous is not!

The only reason why you cant see the face rubbing feature in non-creepy way is because you are so judgmental who can only look at things from one side and probably a hypocrite on top of that.

You have already made a ton of assumptions, why not make some more? People often judge gamers who enjoy game featuring ultra violence without knowing that those games also featuring god damn good gameplay, story or character, sometimes with good reason and most of the times with no good reason. DOA has better fighting mechanics than Blazblue's. Mortal Kombat has better fighting mechanics and ten times better story than Blazblue's. And yet all you can do is complain about the gimmick features such as skimpy clothes and fatalities and totally ignore all of the features that keep the gamers playing. You disgusted me. You are like 80s granma who is so behind the world. You can only see one mass murderer who played CS and cannot see the thousands players who also played CS and make money out of it and hundred professional e-sport players who have wife and kids. You can only see Pewdiepie as a mentally unstable streamer yet you cant see his charity activities. You are the type to insult a gamer to get a life and yet you have not seen Pewdiepie's cute girlfriend. You disgusted me!

Edited June 1, 2015 by Magical CC

[Belmont]

Really? Because I got the impression that most people are rather disturbed by it. I doubt this nets them more customers then it costs them.

And who are most people in this case? The folks in Sf, reddit, gameFAQs and neogaf? We are quite literally less than a percent of the overall fanbase this game is trying to appeal to.

[Belmont]

Except for the girls in Neptunia is perfectly cute in a non-creepy way which you will know if you actually play the game instead of whining like a kid.

Im not whining about the game. I just detest feplus assumption that peoplw who play neptunia are pedos in the making.