Is forging free?

[Ryo]

From my interpretation, you'll need to spend minerals to forge weapons, which you can easily grind via Arena or just wait hours for MC to automatically update (the rarer ones can be gained by trading or Streetpass). There is no gold bar to indicate how much money you'll lose, so I'd assume forging is now free. Adding to the fact that weapons now have infinite durability, will this become a bit unbalanced?

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ryo

[Captain Karnage]

I doubt that, but the real question is what they are going to charge, money or materials.

[Awakener_]

Does having everything balanced that much matter to you guys? Seriously you won't enjoy the game if everything is "balance, balance, this need balance" inside of your head every time. It not like this is a heavy PvP game like League of Legend, hell it not even a multi-player. Relax and just enjoy the game, the word "balancing" isn't even near being my choice of vocabulary to used during the hype train of IF until you guys bring it up.

[goodperson707]

Heres balance. If it is too powerful for your liking either don't use it, or don't use it as much. The game should not be expected to give you your exact preferred amount of difficulty.For Most single player turn-based RPGs once they reach a certain complexity, they will never really be that balanced. There will always be things that are better than other things. That is just how it works.

[Ryo]

Does having everything balanced that much matter to you guys? Seriously you won't enjoy the game if everything is "balance, balance, this need balance" inside of your head every time. It not like this is a heavy PvP game like League of Legend, hell it not even a multi-player. Relax and just enjoy the game, the word "balancing" isn't even near being my choice of vocabulary to used during the hype train of IF until you guys bring it up.

Yes, it does matter to me. So I'm not allowed to voice my concern about a strategy aspect in a strategy game? If it bothers you that much, just ignore this thread. And don't put words in my mouth about me not going to enjoy the game, thank you. I've been constantly refreshing all possible FE-related sites in the last few weeks to give everyone updates on time, not for words like these to be thrown at my face. Have you seen any sane person doing that? If I don't have any interest in this game, do you think I would even bother coming here?

Heres balance. If it is too powerful for your liking either don't use it, or don't use it as much. The game should not be expected to give you your exact preferred amount of difficulty.For Most single player turn-based RPGs once they reach a certain complexity, they will never really be that balanced. There will always be things that are better than other things. That is just how it works.

Of course I won't use it if it proves to be too game-breaking, but that doesn't mean that it's a good implementation, just like other "optional" things people are talking about. Infinite weapon durability is one thing, infinite weapons to be freely forged using materials which can be easily collected is another thing. Not to mention that the more you forge it, the less the side-effects (the only factor that exists to counter out this problem) will affect you.

I doubt that, but the real question is what they are going to charge, money or materials.

Materials definitely since those are needed for the forge, it's just unclear whether money will also be charged, though I highly doubt it.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ryo

[Neoleo21]

Hmmm, this is interesting, its clear materials are intended as a limiting factor. I'm pretty sure forging will also cost money though and that stuff is limited no matter how you see it.

[goodperson707]

^^ uh we don't know what that side effect comment means, it could easily just mean that because your steel sword has more might, losing attack speed isn't as bad.

And i find the notion that you appear to expect a single player game of fire emblems nature to be balanced is laughable. Once you add this many variables, balancing it is pretty much not done. Especially with the fact that the designers will never know what units you use or what their stats turned out to be. Sure forging is powerful, but it is comparable to every other OP tactic you can abuse in nearly every fire emblem type game i know. All it is is making a weapon stronger, and if you get to the point you can forge, you probably have got to the point where you could have already broken the game anyway in most fire emblems just by focusing on the right characters, or other tactics.

Edited June 12, 2015 by goodperson707

[Philranger]

Do we know the accumulation rate of materials/material cost to do anything yet?

From my interpretation, you'll need to spend minerals to forge weapons, which you can easily grind via Arena or just wait hours for MC to automatically update (the rarer ones can be gained by trading or Streetpass).

Do we know how easy the arena is yet? It seems like you don't get to choose which character goes into the arena like you don't choose who is manning the shops so it may not be as easy to grind them as you suggest.

I don't know how anybody can post easily gotten and Streetpass in the same sentence. As for trading, the exchange rate is 5 to 1. That's pretty steep depending on material refresh rate.

[Vineron]

It was confirmed in a recent video that online will be a thing though, making it much more accessible, usable, and abusable.

[Ryo]

^^ uh we don't know what that side effect comment means, it could easily just mean that because your steel sword has more might, losing attack speed isn't as bad.

And i find the notion that you appear to expect a single player game of fire emblems nature to be balanced is laughable. Once you add this many variables, balancing it is pretty much not done. Especially with the fact that the designers will never know what units you use or what their stats turned out to be. Sure forging is powerful, but it is comparable to every other OP tactic you can abuse in nearly every fire emblem type game i know. All it is is making a weapon stronger, and if you get to the point you can forge, you probably have got to the point where you could have already broken the game anyway in most fire emblems just by focusing on the right characters, or other tactics.

FE has never been balanced. That's not the problem I'm having with. What I'm concerned about is the fact that they're making these imbalances even worse. Why add yet another thing to abuse when you already have plenty? Want to avoid weapon forging abuse? Just add money. They don't even need to consider the variables that you mentioned.

Do we know the accumulation rate of materials/material cost to do anything yet?

Do we know how easy the arena is yet? It seems like you don't get to choose which character goes into the arena like you don't choose who is manning the shops so it may not be as easy to grind them as you suggest.

I don't know how anybody can post easily gotten and Streetpass in the same sentence. As for trading, the exchange rate is 5 to 1. That's pretty steep depending on material refresh rate.

Streetpass is much easier in Japan. And wasn't it confirmed in SoC's translation that you can use the Internet too?

EDIT: Ninja'd

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ryo

[goodperson707]

^ but you already could break the game before you even can touch forging as i said. Plus most people who would abuse the forging system or be the type of person to spend time getting a Shit ton of recourses, probably have found ways to break the game to high heaven already. Why should they avoid putting in a thing that makes a weapon stronger. And with gold you could very easily never have enough to forge, weapons constiently let alone upgrade your equipment. And yeah you could manage your recourses but if you do that you already can choose wether or not to use forging. At least with this system, you don't practically Require dlc to forge the stronger weapons.

[Marros]

Actually, I think you may need two copies of the weapon. the screenshot in the Famitsu article has two Steel Swords listed with the person using it "Steel sword: Luna" and "Steel Sword: convoy" with the gem used to upgrade in the middle. so maybe it consumes a second copy? though it may just be that it dumps the forged weapon into the convoy afterward...

[NekoKnight]

"The game will never be balanced so they shouldn't even try!" is a terrible attitude to have. Making forging not so easy to abuse is as simple as slapping a high gold cost to it. A game should challenge you to try a variety of techniques in order to win. A poorly designed game asks its players to set their own limits so they don't roflstomp the enemy.

[Only MU V2]

^ With all the things Hoshido's been awarding, it kinda sounds like it's going that way like Awakening sorta.

[goodperson707]

^^ But what does limiting forging achieve? Those who want to abuse it will, no matter the system, and if you add too much gold costs you have a near useless forging system for most players. And saying it makes the game easy is pretty weird as you probably have to get to chapter 6 or higher anyway just to get to my castle. Also nearly anyone who decides to overuse forging, can probably rofl stomp the game on lower difficulties anyway. And what this does is make forging more accessible on higher difficulties and on Nohr which in all honesty might make lunatic and Nohr a bit easier to balance, as you lower the variable of does this person use forged weapons or not as if they are accessible why wouldn't you if you are on the harder modes.

Plus there may be a flat rate or something we have not seen yet or a limit per chapter or by time.

[Neoleo21]

To have strategy, I think you have to ask "What am I trading off to take this action?" in regards to preparation. We haven't seen if Forging costs gold in addition to external materials, its reasonable to assume this is still the case though, which means you give up potentially buying another weapon that could be very useful. We really haven't seen everything in the my castle that could use those materials. Assuming those things exist, you give those up to forge. Not only that, but almost everything on the my castle exists on a progression curve, so you can't have everything at once when you gain access, that's another trade off and choice to be made. Naturally LTC runs will find the best route in the end however, they always do.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Neoleo21

[arvilino]

To have strategy, I think you have to ask "What am I trading off to take this action?" in regards to preparation. We haven't seen if Forging costs gold in addition to external materials, its reasonable to assume this is still the case though, which means you give up potentially buying another weapon that could be very useful. We really haven't seen everything in the my castle that could use those materials. Assuming those things exist, you give those up to forge. Not only that, but almost everything on the my castle exists on a progression curve, so you can't have everything at once when you gain access, that's another trade off and choice to be made. Naturally LTC runs will find the best route in the end however, they always do.

Yeah that is a good point, considering each building or upgrade costs dragon pulse/vein points it's questionable when exactly in the game would you be able to afford to build whatever. Would you build a mine for gems, an arena to boost them and a forge for your limited steel weapons instead of upgrading the weapon shop?

[Eveangaline]

^ With all the things Hoshido's been awarding, it kinda sounds like it's going that way like Awakening sorta.

Wasn't the point that Hoshido would be more like awakening and nohr more like classic FE?

[Icy Toast]

I think it's as Marros says. It isn't very clear from the translations, but the Famitsu text actually says something like this: "By combining weapons of the same type with minerals (...)". That could either mean that a certain mineral type is associated with a certain weapon type, or it could simply mean that you're combining multiple steel swords to form one steel sword +1. And the screenshots seem to imply that it's the latter.

Assuming that is the correct interpretation, you're essentially paying the gold price of the weapon to upgrade it, or, if it's a weapon you wouldn't have used otherwise, the gold you would've acquired by selling it. That seems like a very reasonable trade-off, assuming the game doesn't shower us with gold and redundant weapons.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Icy Toast

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

If we need two copies of the same weapon to forge it, what about the ones that have stat bonuses attached to them? Would you need the same weapon with the exact same stat bonuses to forge it?

Also, my guess is that better crystals required to forge weapons like Silver or Brave stuff won't be available until pretty late, or if you fight someone 20 levels above you in the Arena...

[Ryo]

I think it's as Marros says. It isn't very clear from the translations, but the Famitsu text actually says something like this: "By combining weapons of the same type with minerals (...)". That could either mean that a certain mineral type is associated with a certain weapon type, or it could simply mean that you're combining multiple steel swords to form one steel sword +1. And the screenshots seem to imply that it's the latter.

Assuming that is the correct interpretation, you're essentially paying the gold price of the weapon to upgrade it, or, if it's a weapon you wouldn't have used otherwise, the gold you would've acquired by selling it. That seems like a very reasonable trade-off, assuming the game doesn't shower us with gold and redundant weapons.

I think you're right, it does say something along that line. Maybe I should tell Kirokan to add this to their translation, since I've seen some people being confused.

[Cysx]

I'd be surprised if the arena was that abusable. Even considering the random character selection, I'm unsure if they'll let us fight there over and over.

^^ But what does limiting forging achieve? Those who want to abuse it will, no matter the system, and if you add too much gold costs you have a near useless forging system for most players. And saying it makes the game easy is pretty weird as you probably have to get to chapter 6 or higher anyway just to get to my castle. Also nearly anyone who decides to overuse forging, can probably rofl stomp the game on lower difficulties anyway. And what this does is make forging more accessible on higher difficulties and on Nohr which in all honesty might make lunatic and Nohr a bit easier to balance, as you lower the variable of does this person use forged weapons or not as if they are accessible why wouldn't you if you are on the harder modes.
Plus there may be a flat rate or something we have not seen yet or a limit per chapter or by time.

I am in disagreement with pretty much all of that. First off, lack of balancing kills strategy, this was one of Awakening's core problems, and as such obviously people will want If to do better in that department. Quite a few people play strategy games expecting some thinking to be required, not for self-imposed challenges. Limiting not only forging, but everything is paramount to achieving that result.

Forging also seems based on ressources that are unlikely to change from one difficulty to the other, so making it abusable on easier modes will result in the same thing happening everywhere. Even if that wasn't the case though, nothing should be easy to access in harder modes. That's the point. Besides, balancing through the obligation to use one feature is one of the weakest kind there is. Of course at the end of the day we'll figure out what's best, but at not point should they be trying to get us to that result. It's about thinking, it's about options, choice. This accomplishes none of these things.

[Eveangaline]

Forging sounds tedious to me. If the way of getting the stuff to forge with was fun I'd understand but I never really liked Arena fights. Bring so much memory of having to restart because I got overconfident and didn't press b fast enough to cancel the fight and had to restart the whole chapter over and over again after leveling up so many times in the arena I am filled with so much hate.

My arena hate may be learned.