Kiseki Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Honestly, I think Roy's only weakness is his recovery. Other than that, I think Roy's pros outweigh his cons this time around. I think he'll easily fit on High but not so much in Top. I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like Roy can cancel his landing lag from his aerial attacks (except D-air) and the lag from falling at a high distance with any of his grounded options. It doesn't look like an autocancel because he'll still go through the landing lag if I don't input a command (and also because I autocancel Kirby's aerials a lot and I would know how it looks like). This "lag cancelling" appears to be non-existent in Roy's D-air and appears to be slower for his U-air and B-air. I still have to look into this, so I don't think it shouldn't be taken for granted right now. So far it looks like the hitbox for his aerials still have to be active for this to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batter the Beast Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I played Roy nearly all of yesterday so sorry if I came off a bit strongly lol. Nah you're good, I'd react the same way if someone played Lucas for like an hour and called him trash tier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ryu's attacks differing depending on how long you press the button as well as the button combos make him a very interesting character. Tatsumaki definitely adds to his recovery, especially since Shoryuken can be used after it. Beyond that, Focus Attack has super armor strong enough to hold through a fully charged mega buster , and it hits through counters as well. I'd say Street Fighter Veterans will have a lot of fun with Ryu, and he can be a very handy character. I dunno about tiers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I don't know why so many people are saying that Marth's sweetspot is stronger than Roy's. Roy's uncharged sweetspotted f-smash does 20%. 20. With a little charging, I KO'd a Ganondorf at 100% at the middle of FD, and he had good DI too. His forward and back throws and kinda weak, so you can't really use them to create distance or whatever. Down throw is extremely good though; down throw->Blazer still works at like 70%, and at lower percentages, you can combo into so many things. You can up smash if they go too high, but my favourite option is f-smash. You can hold it in a bit to bait an air dodge if you want, but at that height it's almost guaranteed to land on most characters, and they can't strike back fast enough. Roy's recovery is his only weakness I'd say. Fast falling speed can be bad but it's not too big of a deal. Maybe he'd be top of middle tier. Meanwhile, I can't get Ryu's input specials to work in actual combat... Mostly had to rely on dash attack, f-air and f-smash to actually do stuff (i.e. playing like a scrub). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Honestly, I think Roy's only weakness is his recovery. Other than that, I think Roy's pros outweigh his cons this time around. I think he'll easily fit on High but not so much in Top. I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like Roy can cancel his landing lag from his aerial attacks (except D-air) and the lag from falling at a high distance with any of his grounded options. It doesn't look like an autocancel because he'll still go through the landing lag if I don't input a command (and also because I autocancel Kirby's aerials a lot and I would know how it looks like). This "lag cancelling" appears to be non-existent in Roy's D-air and appears to be slower for his U-air and B-air. I still have to look into this, so I don't think it shouldn't be taken for granted right now. So far it looks like the hitbox for his aerials still have to be active for this to work. the "lag canceling" you are referring to is possible because roy has IASA (interruptable as soon as) frames on his aerials before it they are able to autocancel. actually, this makes me wonder if I could use those frames to do another aerial before roy lands to trigger the early autocancel frames and get a pseudo autocancel with him... roy is strong, has good combos, and a good grab game. his sword gives him a bit of disjoint and the tip of his sword is not a pool noodle anymore. i have no idea about ryu or lucas. mewtwo is awful for reasons already stated in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiseki Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 the "lag canceling" you are referring to is possible because roy has IASA (interruptable as soon as) frames on his aerials before it they are able to autocancel. actually, this makes me wonder if I could use those frames to do another aerial before roy lands to trigger the early autocancel frames and get a pseudo autocancel with him...Yeah, ZeRo mentioned the IASA frames on his Roy analysis video and I figured "So that's what it was!" He didn't mention that landing lag can be interrupted as well, though.Considering how early you can cancel his F-air, you probably could get the psuedo-autocancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batter the Beast Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I've been playing Lucas a lot more as of late, and I think he's high tier material now. His zoning and spacing game is phenomenal with PK Fire and his air speed, not to mention his fair and zair. He can even reflect with a quick fsmash to help him win a projectile war. Also, since his recovery is huge, his dair hits multiple times and ends in a meteor, and the fact that almost all of his aerials can KO, he is an extremely potent edgeguarder against characters with okay to even good recovery. His aerials also have low amounts of landing lag, which is always good, and his hoo-hah puts pre-patch Diddy's to shame (though his grab game isn't nearly as good). PK Magnet is also ridiculous, healing about 15% off of Mario fireballs for starters, meaning characters like Mario, Luigi and Pikachu have to think a lot more before using a projectile since Lucas can just heal an extreme amount of % with it, not to mention it has a hitbox on cancelling and cancels very quickly with little endlag if it doesn't absorb anything so it can just be thrown out whenever. His major flaws are his bad approach game and his bad grab, but everything else he has going for him overshadows this. I think Lucas has a great matchup against Ness since he can just wait until Ness uses PK Thunder while recovering and just Magnet it, which is something Ness can't do in return due to just how much further Lucas's PK Thunder goes compared to Ness' and because Lucas also has a tether. This might be a moot point in customs but most Ness players will probably run default PK Thunder for the KO power. I think he'll struggle with Sheik because needles can't be absorbed but hey who doesn't have problems against Sheik. Rosaluma is also a matchup in Lucas's favor since hitting Luma with PK Fire will still hit Rosa if Luma is near meaning she can't just use it as a shield most of the time. I don't have too much experience with other matchups but it's looking good so far for him. I haven't tested Roy and Ryu so my opinions of them haven't changed much. Oh, and I consider Mewtwo low tier after much thought. pls give him more weight Nintendo. Edited June 18, 2015 by The Batter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Lucas sits in Ness's shadow. I agree with Lucas beating Ness though. Anyway, it might not be a bad idea to dual main both of them seeing as Lucas solves some of Ness's problems like doing better against Zoners and people who can gimp Ness much easier. Some high tier Lucas does better than Ness IMO are Rosalina, Luigi, Mario, and Villager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 just got done with a match of Luigi vs Roy (my friend was roy) they had this to say during it "I think I lost brain cells when Luigi's forward til had more range than Roy's" that certainly is an issue for Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Meanwhile, Roy's Fsmash is longer than Marth's... I didn't know Roy had those IASA frames. He's looking even more solid now. I personally prefer to use Nair as an approach though. Fair is good for zoning, but zoning isn't what Roy is looking for imo. Nair's range is kinda similar, and the multiple hits give you more chances to disrupt an opposing rush, not to mention being a little confusing since you can just go past them after the hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 just got done with a match of Luigi vs Roy (my friend was roy) they had this to say during it "I think I lost brain cells when Luigi's forward til had more range than Roy's" that certainly is an issue for Roy. Partly because Roy is using a reverse underhanded grip for those particular swings. He has great damage output and the pivots he can pull with that tilt are greaaat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 roy is high/top ryu is mid/high lucas is mid i don't like mewtwo so i don't know. mid/low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnkern Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Ryu: Top Tier. like you really had to make him that faithful to his game like really..... only thing that will bring him down is his recovery just like capt.falcon is brought down by it. Roy: Mid : less problems than marth and lucina for sure but just like both of them the lack of sword length really hurts them competitively not as much as marth but still. EDIT:further play testing of roy makes me think he is mid and not mid/low Lucas: Mid : Kid is gonna sit in Ness's shadow forever it seems. haven't played him much. Mewtwo: Mid/low : Being this floaty with majority of top tiers being rush down is gonna hurt him competitively. BONUS Dreamland stage: Top tier nah More like MetaKnight tier: An actual good stage with a great competitive history and nostalgia. 11/10 also mewtwo and floaties love this stage. EDIT: nvm they changed blast lines to make it more like battlefield /sigh Edited June 20, 2015 by cnkern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Tiers are meaningless. Right. Should only play with the folks that your good at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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