Unit Optimization Thread

[Amanroth]

Thinking up good pairings and to make the most out of the most characters in this game is certainly taking a lot more thought than it did in awakening... Back then it was mostly just "get galeforce and armsthrift on as many kids as possible". lol One thing that makes it so much different is the personal skills. I've been thinking up all the best pairings for my main play-through of the Invisible Kingdom (with a male avatar); the fact that the men and women that can marry is the exact same means the possibilities decline for the remaining children every time you choose one parent. So I decided to start with the ones I saw the most potential in, starting with Midoriko.
Midoriko's personal skill is probably the most noteworthy one of all the children. 20% increase to luck based skills? The only battle related skill that would help is Miracle, but with the right circumstances that skill along with her personal skill could make her nigh immortal. Too bad daddy has a -2 luck modifier, and no mother has more than +1, so I decided to not worry about it and focus on daddy's other good modifiers of speed and skill. Azura looked like the overall best choice. Midoriko would end up with +4 Skill and +7 speed along with a -1 luck and -3 defense. A good class to make the best of this would be Dark Falcon which has a good luck and speed. At this point her biggest weakness would be defense, but it shouldn't matter much with the right setup.
For skills, Nohr, Hoshido, Vantage, Flamboyant, and Replicate could all help in making her near invincible. A good partner I think would be Seigbert as a Basara (by buddying Shinonome) with Miracle, Aether, Sol, Astra, and Lethality (or some other skill is dealing with enemies with Dragonskin). Having 31 Luck (Dark Falcon 32 base plus the -1 modifier) along with Flamboyant and Hoshido added to her personal skill already gives Miracle a 76% chance of activating. Having level 3 statues of Setsuna, Anna, Felicia, Hana, Charlotte, Mitama, Lutz and the avatar with an asset of luck (or flaw of luck using Kanna statue instead) would raise her luck cap increasing it another 8%. Pairing with a Basara is another 5%, and being S supported to Mozu!Seigbert is another 2 (Children get the mother's C and S supports, so both Seigbet's luck points come from Mozu). Keeping a replica in a safe zone near a healer and a rally bot with Rally Luck and Rally Spectrum would add another 10%. This gives Miracle a 101% chance of activating. If you have the visitation seal and give it to Midoriko, then that's another 2% making 103%. For temporary boosts, luck tonics can add another 4%, and the bouquet staff can also add an extra 4%. And Inspiring Song can be used with the rallies for an extra 3%, making up to 114%possible.
With a 101% Miracle activation rate, Aether and Sol for healing (as well as a safely hidden copy to heal in case), Seigbert's/Avatar's personal skill increasing her damage by 2, Lethality to kill instantly, and Astra to fill the shield gauge instantly, and high speed and vantage to ensure she attacks first and doesn't get doubled, Midoriko could become one of those units you just throw out into the middle of enemy territory, hit start, and notice all the enemies suddenly go missing. lol Basara could be another good class (probably best obtained by buddying Kinu, as the parents that provide it (Orochi and Oboro) have -1 luck) since it also uses tomes and has 3 more points of luck than Dark Falcon.

I then decided on one mother for other children at a time basing the choices on the stat modifiers and the classes that would be provided for the kids and parents. It is disappointing how many personal skills are like conditional watered down versions of other skills (so many "+2 damage when this happens" lol). No other personal skill stood out like Midoriko's did, so I decided to make the most of what I figured they were good for. Since Sophie's skill makes enemies lose 3 defense, I figured I may as well make the most of it by giving her debuff skills like defense seal and speed seal and let Setsuna be the mother so she could have the option to attack from a distance with long bows to weaken tough enemies. Since Lazward's personal skill stacks with rally skills, I figured he'd make a good rally bot, which I prefer to be mobile and so picked Camilla to give him access to a flying class.
I put together this chart after a bunch of considerations. What do you think of these match ups? Any particular ones that would be recommended changing for a particular reason? And out of all this, which character looks like he'd make the best Ballistician? I try to have at least one of every class, and hadn't considered that until now since it seemed unclear when it was ever coming.

Edit: Setsuna could also be a good choice for Midoriko's mother since she gives the same speed and skill and better defense at the expense of only 1 luck point, which could still give 100% Miracle with the above.
Gurei with Mozu as the mother case can be a good alternative choice to Seigbert. Make him a Swordmaster(Trueblade) gives 3 class-support luck points (and 5 speed!) and Mozume and his father make him give 3 at S rank, making him give just 1 less luck than Mozume-Basara Seigbert (Gurei can become a Basara too by buddying Shinonome, or a Butler by buddying Deere which might be even better). DarkFalcon-Azura Midoriko + Swordmaster(Trueblade)-Mozume Gurei = 100% Miracle (and an extra 5 speed, but no extra 2 attack from Seigbert's skill). DarkFalcon-Setsuna Midoriko + Basara-Mozume Seigbert = 100% Miracle.
And there are luck tonics as another means of raising luck by another 4 points (though it'd be annoying to use one every single battle). The bouquet staff is another way of gaining an extra 4 luck points until the end of a battle. There's also the visitation seal to increase luck and defenses by 2, but it can be a pain to get.
Great Lord is another class that could be good for pairing her with since it gives 4 luck and 4 speed. But it's only available for females, so the only character that could use it and grant inherited luck points is Kinu with Hinoka or Mozume as the mother (4 class luck points plus 2 inherited support points). DarkFalcon-Azura Midoriko + GreatLord-Hinoka/Mozume Kinu = 100% Miracle. The seal turns males into Lodestar which gives 3 in luck and 3 in speed, thus it is inferior to swordmaster(trueblade). And there is only 1 seal possible to get, so I'd likely want to use it on my avatar. Is there any chart out there that shows what the different flaw/asset setups give your avatar support wise?

Maid could also be a good class for Midoriko since it has speed and luck equal to Dark Falcon and better skill, and concealed weapons are the main 1-2 space non-magic weapons that don't have the "can't crit", "can't trigger skills", or "can't double attack" downsides. However, in order to obtain this, she would need to marry either Dwyer or Forrest... Gurei is the one and only unit that can get her 3 luck points through support (Saizo's C and Mozu's B and S), the most she can get from anybody else is 2 (mainly by having Mozu as the mother). And Gurei is the one character that doesn't give her an extra class, so that 1 extra luck point may not be worth it...

Also, do skills like her personal and Quixotic affect the chances of votive candle's effect happening? If so, using that weapon as a maid or whatever could free up one space from her partner allowing for another skill such as Dual Guarder that could buff Midoriko even further.

Midoriko luck guide:

Dark Falcon (32) Azura!Midoriko (-1) + statues (8) + skills (20 + 15 + 10) + Barara (5) Mozu!Seigbert (2) + Visitation Seal (2) =

93% Miracle with no rally or extra skill, 0 extra speed, 1 extra skill (Mozu's S support), and 2 extra attack (Seigbert's skill)

Dark Falcon (32) Azura!Midoriko (-1) + statues (8) + skills (20 + 15 + 10) + Butler (3) Mozu!Gurei (3) + Visitation Seal (2) =

92% Miracle with no rally or extra skill, 3 extra speed (Butler bonus), 2 extra skill (Saizo's A and Mozu's S), and 2 extra magic attack (Butler bonus)

Dark Falcon (32) Azura!Midoriko (-1) + statues (8) + skills (20 + 15 + 10) + Great Lord (4) Hinoka!Selkie (2) + Visitation Seal (2) =

92% Miracle with no rally or extra skill, 5 extra speed (Great Lord Bonus (4) and Kaden's C Support (1)), 0 extra skill, and 0 extra attack

Add up to 13% to the above Miracle chance via rally luck (8), spectrum (2), and inspiring song (3).

Add an extra 4% if Luck+4 is chosen as the extra skill in place of Replicate.

Total support points from other characters:

C, B , A, S, S

Mozu!Seigbert: str, lck, def, skl, lck

Mozu!Gurei: lck, lck, skl, skl, lck

Hinoka!Shelkie: spd, lck, lck, 0, 0

Mozu!Dwyer: str, lck, skl, skl, lck

Mozu!Forrest: mag, lck, spd, skl, lck

I guess as a maid, her best physical offensive class for this gimmick, being paired with a lodestar or great lord is best. While something like a Butler is best for magical offense.

As for Kanna...

Edited July 13, 2016 by Amanroth

[astrophys]

S-support pair-up bonuses are dependent on the father and mother.

Father's C-bonus + Mother's B bonus + Father's A-bonus + Mother's S-bonus

Seigbert's total bonus:

{Str +1} + Mother's B bonus +{ Def +1 } + Mother's S-bonus

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/nohrian-characters/pair-up-stats/

{Str+1, Def +1} + Mother's B bonus + Mother' S-bonus

So then you look at whomever you made his mother. Seigbert doesn't give any extra luck beyond the standard class bonus himself, so any bonus will be coming from him mom.

Edited September 19, 2015 by astrophys

[Tactless Tactician]

S-support pair-up bonuses are dependent on the father and mother.

Father's C-bonus + Mother's B bonus + Father's A-bonus + Mother's S-bonus

Seigbert's total bonus:

{Str +1} + Mother's B bonus +{ Def +1 } + Mother's S-bonus

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/nohrian-characters/pair-up-stats/

{Str+1, Def +1} + Mother's B bonus + Mother' S-bonus

So then you look at whomever you made his mother. Seigbert doesn't give any extra luck beyond the standard class bonus himself, so any bonus will be coming from him mom.

Actually, at A-support, Xander gives Str +1, Lck +1, Def +1, so wouldn't Seigbert wind up providing some luck (however minimal) of his own accord?

[astrophys]

Ah, but to clarify, I should have specified that what I meant was the INCREMENTAL BONUS.

Xander:

C Rank: Str +1

B Rank: ADDS on Lck+1 ----> Total bonus is Str+1 and Luck +1; the incremental bonus was LCK+1

A Rank: ADDS on Def+1 ----> Total bonus is Str +1, Luck +1, Def +1; the incremental bonus was DEF+1

S Rank: ADDS on Str+1 and Luck+1 ---> Total bonus is Str +2, Lck +2, Def+1; the incremental bonus was Str+1 and Lck+1

So the incremental C-rank bonus of the father, Xander, is Str+1, and the incremental A rank bonus was Def+1.

Say if he married Charlotte. Her incremental bonuses for B rank are Str+1 and then for S rank Str+1, Spd+1.

So Charlotte!Seigbert would give this total at S-rank: {Str+1} + {Str +1} + { Def+1} + { Str+1, Spd +1} = Str +3, Spd+1, Def +1

Xander's luck bonuses don't come into play as they fall on the B and S rank increments, which are the domain of the mother for the inheritance.

ADDENDUM:

Changing topics: What do we now think about luck flaws now that we know that 1 luck = 0.5 crit evade, 0.5 hit, and 0.5 avoid his time, particularly with regards to Crit Evade. This basically means that you face crit rates against you unless you have higher values of luck (compared to Awakening).

Mitigating considerations: Dragonstone, upgraded Yato, existence of Guard Stance crit evade bonuses, Luck boosting items

Concerns: Bosses and enemies with high crit rates.

Edited September 19, 2015 by astrophys

[CompteSecours]

I'm playing Hoshido Lunatic, and Hinoka reclassed into Lance Fighter is a beast lol

[Ebony]

For Nohr, as a male I'm going to marry Ophelia with Spellcaster as my secondary again. Elise!Ophelia.

I think this is a good choice, yes?

[astrophys]

It seems reasonable. The only question is the practicality of recruiting her, as that does mean running Odin on your team for some time (although he could be a pair-up bot for Elise, so this might not be a real issue).

As for the other comments, yeah, I'd anticipate that Hinoka would be a good Lance Fighter.

ADDENDUM:

Assuming a +MAG avatar, running Dark Mage as a secondary in Hoshido/3rd (Bind, Devilish Wind, Lifetaker, ability to continue using Yato while also gaining tome access if in the Hoshido Route [Dark Blood also takes this role in the 3rd route and Nohr]), what do you think I should go with for my flaw? I'll probably A+ buddy with a Samurai to get Swordfaire on the 3rd route to boost both Yato and Levin Swords simultaneously.

On Nohr, I'll probably actually go Samurai as my secondary and buddy for Dark Mage, again allowing the same combinations of skills mentioned above.

Any thoughts?

Edited September 19, 2015 by astrophys

[Amanroth]

S-support pair-up bonuses are dependent on the father and mother.

Father's C-bonus + Mother's B bonus + Father's A-bonus + Mother's S-bonus

Seigbert's total bonus:

{Str +1} + Mother's B bonus +{ Def +1 } + Mother's S-bonus

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/nohrian-characters/pair-up-stats/

{Str+1, Def +1} + Mother's B bonus + Mother' S-bonus

So then you look at whomever you made his mother. Seigbert doesn't give any extra luck beyond the standard class bonus himself, so any bonus will be coming from him mom.

Ah, so that's how the child's support points are determined. I was thinking of making Hinoka the mother, but that would make his final Luck support bonus +1 only. It looks like Mozume is the only mother that would result in a Luck +2.

And now that I think about it, it looks like Special Song could be the last thing to stack on the rally to get the final needed speck of luck. (And I forgot that Rally luck grants +8 instead of +4 like most rally skills.) Have the copy choose to wait, have Azura sing its turn back with special song equipped giving another 3 luck, and then Dark Falcon/Basara Midoriko would have a 102/105 percent chance at Miracle activating.

[CrazyFiasco]

So I'm planning a IK playthrough for Femui who will marry Subaki. What would be a good Asset and Flaw for Matoi? (She's going to be a Great Lord)

Edited September 20, 2015 by CrazyFiasco

[Ebony]

So for I'm planning a IK playthrough for a Femui who's marrying Subaki. What would a good Asset and Flaw for Matoi? (Shs's going to be a Great Lord)

This is relevant to my interests, seeing as I'm most likely going to be do a run I like to call, "avoid the implications." So it'll be a tossup between marrying Subaki or Nishiki in Hoshido.

[Tide of Waves]

So I'm planning a IK playthrough for a Femui who's marrying Subaki. What would a good Asset and Flaw for Matoi? (Shs's going to be a Great Lord)

You could make your F!Kamui as Lance Fighter Class as Secondary, and +Spd, and -Luck as your asset for both Matoi, and M!Kanna as well.!

Edited September 20, 2015 by Tide of Waves

[Ebony]

You could make your F!Kamui as Lance Fighter Class as Secondary, and +Spd, and -Luck as your asset for both Matoi, and M!Kanna as well.!

Just curious, but would Subaki desire any Nohr classes?

[CrazyFiasco]

You could make your F!Kamui as Lance Fighter Class as Secondary, and +Spd, and -Luck as your asset for both Matoi, and M!Kanna as well.!

I don't know about Lance Fighter for a secondary class, it might be good for Subaki, but Matoi and Kanna won't be in any lance wielding classes

[CrazyFiasco]

Just curious, but would Subaki desire any Nohr classes?

From what I hear he's a bit tanky, maybe Wyvern Rider would be good? Femui could pass down Deadly Breath

Edited September 20, 2015 by CrazyFiasco

[Tide of Waves]

From what I hear he's a bit tanky, maybe Wyvern Rider would be good? Femur could pass down Deadly Breath

Re editing mine to the other post.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Tide of Waves

[Tide of Waves]

I don't know about Lance Fighter for a secondary class, it might be good for Subaki, but Matoi and Kanna won't be in any lance wielding classes

Oh, but I'm making my Tsubaki a Falcon Warrior as a Final Class for him, and I might Patch up his Speed actually. But it's your choice.!

[Thor Odinson]

I mean even if you don't use lances I'm pretty sure access to Breaking Sky doesn't hurt esp if you're running physical

[Tide of Waves]

I mean even if you don't use lances I'm pretty sure access to Breaking Sky doesn't hurt esp if you're running physical

Breaking Sky would be good for Tsubaki, Matoi, and Kanna actually.!

[CrazyFiasco]

I mean even if you don't use lances I'm pretty sure access to Breaking Sky doesn't hurt esp if you're running physical

Oh yes, totally forgot about Breaking Sky! So I'll go Lance Fighter then

Edited September 20, 2015 by CrazyFiasco

[Morgan]

Alright I've been doing some research and I'm trying to decide which of these two classes I should do as my secondary for my Silas run. It's between Samurai and Lancer

Samurai gives swordfaire as well as Astra which is always a good proc. Allows Silas to use his A+ on someone who's not Ryoma and gives him access to vantage if he chooses to pursue that

Lancer gives Breaking Sky and Silas happens to have a pretty great skill modifier (I'm fine with grinding so growth rates are no worries). It also gives him Lancefaire for a possible Great Knight or Holy lancer build. Also I like Lancer's outfit a lot

Thoughts or another class you think works better for him?

[Ebony]

Alright I've been doing some research and I'm trying to decide which of these two classes I should do as my secondary for my Silas run. It's between Samurai and Lancer

Samurai gives swordfaire as well as Astra which is always a good proc. Allows Silas to use his A+ on someone who's not Ryoma and gives him access to vantage if he chooses to pursue that

Lancer gives Breaking Sky and Silas happens to have a pretty great skill modifier (I'm fine with grinding so growth rates are no worries). It also gives him Lancefaire for a possible Great Knight or Holy lancer build. Also I like Lancer's outfit a lot

Thoughts or another class you think works better for him?

I'd go for Lancer, personally.

[Shinshia]

Is Hinoka a good mother for Siegbert? What about Mozume?

[Pitbuller26]

Is Hinoka a good mother for Siegbert? What about Mozume?

I'd imagine Hinoka is a decent mother for Siegbert, not the best but up there. Let's take a look.

Growth rates: Going with the (Mother+Child)/2 formula.

Sigbert

Growth Rates

Hp: 42, Str: 45, Mag: 10, Skl: 42, Spd: 45, Luck: 42, Def: 35, Res: 30

Modifiers

Str: 4, Mag: -1, Skl: -1, Spd: 1, Luck: 3, Def: 1, Res: 1

Looking at Siegbert's growth rates, he's most definitely his Hinoka's son in this case since their growth rates are almost identical. And with his modifiers he definitely outshines Xander in terms of stats but Siegfried is just that good. The -1 skill cap does hurt a little but nothing to truly worry about.

Classes he would get: We know he gets Cavalier and Wyvern Rider from his father. Hinoka would give him Pegasus Warrior.

This means Hinoka gives him these skills without worry about marriage/buddy seals: Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart, Rally Speed, Mirror Strike, Soar, Sun God.

The skills Hinoka can give to Siegbert from her reclass options - Remember only one of these skills can be given to Siegbert.

Lance Fighter tree: Defense Seal, Substitute, Speed Seal, Lancefaire, Breaking Sky, Flamboyant

Buddy sealed options-

Priestess tree (Sakura)- Miracle, Rally Luck, Magic Counter, Renewal, Rally Magic, Tomefaire

Bowman tree (Setsuna)- Skill +2, Prescient Victory, Raven Strike, Bowfaire

Not sure cases:

Wyvern Rider (Camilla)- A waste of a buddy seal since Siegbert will always have the Wyvern Rider tree.

Rod Knight (Azura)- Not sure if Azura give Hinoka the class if so: Demoiselle (Distinguished Son for Siegbert), Resistance +2, Battle Command, Rally Resistance, Servant's Joy, Tomebreaker

The main skills that stand out to me are Lancefaire, Breaking Sky, Miracle (due to Siegbert's higher luck cap in this pairing), Tomebreaker.

I'm not going into all the possiblities of Siegbert buddying/marrying second gen units. But based on what I see here, this is a decent pairing for Siegbert.

[astrophys]

Just keep in mind that while I've done a lot of calculations to circumstantially suggest the Mother+Child)/2 formula, given the small number of samples and possible RNG effects I cannot exactly say its confirmed yet. I do think that its the case, but there's the possibility I've made an error due to small number statistics and RNG.

Really, we need a much larger dataset than what I've used, or someone going through the game code, to know for sure.

[Shinshia]

I'd imagine Hinoka is a decent mother for Siegbert, not the best but up there. Let's take a look.

Growth rates: Going with the (Mother+Child)/2 formula.

Sigbert

Growth Rates

Hp: 42, Str: 45, Mag: 10, Skl: 42, Spd: 45, Luck: 42, Def: 35, Res: 30

Modifiers

Str: 4, Mag: -1, Skl: -1, Spd: 1, Luck: 3, Def: 1, Res: 1

Looking at Siegbert's growth rates, he's most definitely his Hinoka's son in this case since their growth rates are almost identical. And with his modifiers he definitely outshines Xander in terms of stats but Siegfried is just that good. The -1 skill cap does hurt a little but nothing to truly worry about.

Classes he would get: We know he gets Cavalier and Wyvern Rider from his father. Hinoka would give him Pegasus Warrior.

This means Hinoka gives him these skills without worry about marriage/buddy seals: Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart, Rally Speed, Mirror Strike, Soar, Sun God.

The skills Hinoka can give to Siegbert from her reclass options - Remember only one of these skills can be given to Siegbert.

Lance Fighter tree: Defense Seal, Substitute, Speed Seal, Lancefaire, Breaking Sky, Flamboyant

Buddy sealed options-

Priestess tree (Sakura)- Miracle, Rally Luck, Magic Counter, Renewal, Rally Magic, Tomefaire

Bowman tree (Setsuna)- Skill +2, Prescient Victory, Raven Strike, Bowfaire

Not sure cases:

Wyvern Rider (Camilla)- A waste of a buddy seal since Siegbert will always have the Wyvern Rider tree.

Rod Knight (Azura)- Not sure if Azura give Hinoka the class if so: Demoiselle (Distinguished Son for Siegbert), Resistance +2, Battle Command, Rally Resistance, Servant's Joy, Tomebreaker

The main skills that stand out to me are Lancefaire, Breaking Sky, Miracle (due to Siegbert's higher luck cap in this pairing), Tomebreaker.

I'm not going into all the possiblities of Siegbert buddying/marrying second gen units. But based on what I see here, this is a decent pairing for Siegbert.

Ok thank you! I'm hesitating between her and Mozume for Siegbert's mother this time around, Hinoka seems like a decent choice indeed.