General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) destructive potential is reliant on skill procs (which are admitably pretty high) but it isn't guarenteed in any sense. You can't ORKO a Sorceror without a Luna proc or something either. Renewalnosferatu heals like, ~40 HP a turn, and its not taking into account other stuff like Vengeance/Sol/Bond etc. and this game is going to be very very very long. It might be close to endless. (also if you didnt see my action earlier i'm Yewfelling Brady with Noire) Also most of the classes that double Sorcerors suck pretty hard or are shut down by a breaker. Maybe i'm just thinking avoid doesn't happen a whole lot because almost every hit has landed this game regardless of % Also all those skills are on both sides and increases hit as well, so its a wash. Edited July 5, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 13. vs. Horace's Severa activates Bond! Horace's Severa activates Renewal! Horace's Bride Noire (Yewfelle) attacks Elieson's Sorcerer Brady (Aversa's Night+)! 24 dmg 89% hit 0% crit (96) (87 86 67) welp Brady receives 24/80 damage! Brady counterattacks! 28 dmg 96% hit 0% crit (97) tis a lucky day for Horace (5 97 62) Noire receives 28/80 damage! Brady recovers 14/80 HP! Noire attacks again! (50) (97 54 3) Brady receives 24/80 damage! Elieson Horace Gerome 0/80 MorganF 0/80 Brady 27/80 Yarne 0/80 MorganM 80/80 Inigo 80/80 Lucina 0/80 Severa 56/80 Noire 80/80 Noire 80/80 Elieson acts next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) U don't lose your Rank bonus in raw calcs, espi omg i'm wrong you do, fuck i need to redo my calculator to accomodate for this Edited July 5, 2015 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) U don't lose your Rank bonus in raw calcs, espi What do you mean and what are you referring to? Also, your turn. Edited July 5, 2015 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Nvm espi, I don't think i ever noticed this before Morgan, throw your Tits Axe at Noire Edited July 5, 2015 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 destructive potential is reliant on skill procs (which are admitably pretty high) but it isn't guarenteed in any sense. You can't ORKO a Sorceror without a Luna proc or something either. Renewalnosferatu heals like, ~40 HP a turn, and its not taking into account other stuff like Vengeance/Sol/Bond etc. Vengeance has a ~80-100% hit rate on most folks that have it. Everything else not counting Aether, Astra and Lethality also procs fairly frequently. Sorcs aren't terribly comfortable targeting most units either, due to AS issues and the counterattack rendering Nosferatu's healing void. You either don't touch a Sorc, or you try to take one out ASAP at the start of the battle IMHO. and this game is going to be very very very long. It might be close to endless. Pretty sure people are about to start dying. Also most of the classes that double Sorcerors suck pretty hard or are shut down by a breaker. Just realised it's limited to Assassins and Swordmasters actually, not counting +2 Speed units. I guess this is still something that could cause trouble, and a test match where one player uses Sorcs liberally and the other doesn't at all could be held to see just how much does this ruin the game's balance, if at all. Because without potent recovery, matches will end really, really quickly. In averages, most units just don't have the skill selection to kill as fast, but I don't know; we have to try that out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 IMO if you're building your team to account for sorcerers every time, then it's a top tier that is suspect to banning/restricting, simply because it's too centralized to be fun and promote unique team/play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 you can build a sorceror morgan with 48 skill and 46 speed how do you kill that without skill procs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 IMO if you're building your team to account for sorcerers every time, then it's a top tier that is suspect to banning/restricting, simply because it's too centralized to be fun and promote unique team/play Well, in the Path of Radiance meta that we spent so much time on a year ago, having 25 speed or less was disastrous simply because of what Giffca/Ike/Tibarn would do to you otherwise. Did we ban any of them? We did ban Ike's Oscar support + Ragnell, but Ike remained pretty viable as a user of Aether / NihilResolve. All it meant in the end was that you kept your slow non-Generals away, and Generals had an interesting mindgame going around when you switched between a Laguzguard and a Knight Ward. Here, Sorcerors don't really destroy anyone of note besides Generals (and these are afraid of forged Hammers anyway), and if you have a team that can dish out damage either by doubling them or with -faire skills/high offensive stats/Luna/Vengeance (any combination of these works even better) they won't like attacking your units with Aversa's Night all that often, because they can be rather easy to knock out next turn anyway. By the way, the main reason we slowed down in this battle is because people's HP is too high for Vengeance to really start putting huge dents into things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 yea, we nerfed Ike to balanced potential by pulling the two things that made him mandatory on every team ever: Ragnell and Oscar support. That's likely what we'll need to do here, in Max Stats, ban Aversa's Night for sure, and Renewal simply because the tank potential is too ferocious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 14. vs. Elieson's Noire activates Bond! Elieson's Brady activates Renewal! Elieson's Warrior MorganM (Titania's Axe+) attacks Horace's Bride Noire (Yewfelle)! 33 dmg 100% hit 0% crit (80) Noire receives 33/80 damage! And that's it for this turn actually. Elieson Horace Gerome 0/80 MorganF 0/80 Brady 61/80 Yarne 0/80 MorganM 80/80 Inigo 80/80 Lucina 0/80 Severa 56/80 Noire 80/80 Noire 47/80 Horace acts next. Edited July 5, 2015 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Brave Bow Morgan with Noire. Edited July 5, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 you can build a sorceror morgan with 48 skill and 46 speed how do you kill that without skill procs Well, in children's meta everyone is expected to be faster than what the class max stats show. Lon'qu!Yarne has 53 speed as an Assassin for instance. Swordmasters with Resistance+10 will have around 50 resistance too, leaving Aversa's Night damage at a level where it doesn't hurt enough to threaten much without Vengeance activations. One really big shortcoming Sorcs have is their lack of flexibility. Aversa's Night is equipped, and bad things happen if you let go of it, and there are situations where other tomes provide some utility - Forseti to double or Celica's Gale for its brave effect. If you unequip Aversa once, it's a class that's not too hard to take out. If you breed Panne with speed asset Morgan instead, you can have a Yarne with 56 speed instead (Speed+2 / Assassin or SM). So I do think there are more dangerous things to ban in the children's meta than healing, because, after all, stall teams also employ Luna and Vengeance to eventually overkill their foes (and offensive teams also do kinda want some healing if they don't accentuate Vengeance builds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Well, in children's meta everyone is expected to be faster than what the class max stats show. Lon'qu!Yarne has 53 speed as an Assassin for instance. Swordmasters with Resistance+10 will have around 50 resistance too, leaving Aversa's Night damage at a level where it doesn't hurt enough to threaten much without Vengeance activations. One really big shortcoming Sorcs have is their lack of flexibility. Aversa's Night is equipped, and bad things happen if you let go of it, and there are situations where other tomes provide some utility - Forseti to double or Celica's Gale for its brave effect. If you unequip Aversa once, it's a class that's not too hard to take out. If you breed Panne with speed asset Morgan instead, you can have a Yarne with 56 speed instead (Speed+2 / Assassin or SM). So I do think there are more dangerous things to ban in the children's meta than healing, because, after all, stall teams also employ Luna and Vengeance to eventually overkill their foes (and offensive teams also do kinda want some healing if they don't accentuate Vengeance builds). Aversa's Night with a Vengeance proc on a counter attack is a sorcerer's bread and butter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 i think assassins and sm's are terrible classes. I havent used them, but in theory they look like poor choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 15. vs. Horace's Severa activates Bond! Horace's Severa activates Renewal! Horace's Severa activates Noire! Horace's Bride Noire (Brave Bow) attacks Elieson's Warrior MorganM (Titania's Axe+)! 11 dmg 72% hit 0% crit (1) Noire activates Luna! (66 16 0) MorganM receives 35/80 damage! (57) (85 6 14) MorganM receives 11/80 damage! Noire attacks again! (75) (69 18 69) MorganM receives 11/80 damage! (69) no 2nd Luna proc for Horace (55 19 90) MorganM receives 11/80 damage! Elieson Horace Gerome 0/80 MorganF 0/80 Brady 61/80 Yarne 0/80 MorganM 12/80 Inigo 80/80 Lucina 0/80 Severa 80/80 Noire 80/80 Noire 80/80 Elieson acts next. Edited July 5, 2015 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 it was worth a shot I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Or fourShow Noire your Wolf Beil, Morgan Hector's Axe Edited July 5, 2015 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 16. vs. Elieson's Noire activates Bond! Elieson's Brady activates Renewal! Elieson's MorganM activates Renewal! Elieson's Warrior MorganM (Hector's Axe+) attacks Horace's Bride Noire (Brave Bow)! 35 dmg 100% hit 0% crit (87) [45*2] MorganM activates Vengeance! (97) Noire receives 52/80 damage! Elieson Horace Gerome 0/80 MorganF 0/80 Brady 80/80 Yarne 0/80 MorganM 46/80 Inigo 80/80 Lucina 0/80 Severa 80/80 Noire 80/80 Noire 28/80 Horace acts next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 go bravebow morgan again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Uhoh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 17. vs. Horace's Severa activates Bond! Horace's Noire activates Renewal! Horace's Bride Noire (Brave Bow) attacks Elieson's Warrior MorganM (Hector's Axe+)! 9 dmg 82% hit 0% crit (93) (74 46 39) MorganM receives 9/80 damage! (40) [41 skill] Noire activates Luna! (56 67 15) MorganM receives 34/80 damage! Noire attacks again! (59) (65 25 45) MorganM receives 3/80 damage! Elieson Horace Gerome 0/80 MorganF 0/80 Brady 80/80 Yarne 0/80 MorganM 0/80 Inigo 80/80 Lucina 0/80 Severa 80/80 Noire 80/80 Noire 62/80 Elieson acts next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 waifu class too strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 A real gem from turn 15: [spoiler=see teams here] Elieson's team [spoiler=Parents] Kellam / Henry / Gerome (Kellam) / Sumia / Libra General Horace's team! [spoiler=Parents] Aversa / Vaike / Virion / Henry / Donnel Turn 15. vs. Horace's Severa activates Bond! Horace's Severa activates Renewal! Horace's Severa activates Noire! Horace's Severa activates Noire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Horace activates Noire...I didn't know he was into that kinky shit ;) What, no Miracle check? not like it matters, I'd still have to dodge the last 82 to survive Damn, I dunno if I can pull this back, but can you run that miracle @ possible hit check? If I somehow survive it, have Morgan run Hector's Axe again on Noire. If not, uhh, have Brady!Aversa's Night v Noire instead Edited July 5, 2015 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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