lol

[Sentacotus]

I find a significant piece of the Wind Waker's plot to be terribly sexist, and it puzzles me to no end that it doesnt come up in debates about such matters in the series. The Egregious Case of Tetra is a thing. A really cool pirate girl who commands the respect of a whole band of pirates, flings guys on catapults from her ship, pillages caverns and treasure....cannot seem to function when placed in a dress. And then vanishes from the plot entirely. She even gets fucking usurped by the King of Red Lions with the gossip stone. Thats such BS, omg. Even that coolass final battle couldnt make up for the fact Tetra/Zelda got the shitty hand dealt to her by the devs. I mean, in OoT, Zelda was only kidnapped for maybe ten minutes tops. And she did cool ass shit after the Ganondorf fight. So using OoT as a sexist example and not WW feels...fucking stupid as shit.

I think the biggest thing that happened is that they awakened the triforce of wisdom within Tetra which kind of made her a target for Ganon to go after and more so they keep her in one place hidden. Oh by the way that one place happens to be where Ganon's power is sealed and first awakens when Link gets the Master Sword. Smart move... Instead of keeping her with the pirates who are moving around the vast ocean constantly lets pop flares where she is and put her at the one place Ganon would look. I think it has less to do with sexism and just poor plot/decision writing.

As far as the gossip stone goes that pretty much happens in the begining of the game when Link gets trashed in the fortress and they thought he was dead and the King of Red Lions uses it to talk to Link and guide him through the rest of the quest. If anything I think the fact that both Tetra and KoRL can use it serves as a clever allusion to Tetra's connection with the Royal family.

Edited July 11, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Misses Elise-chan!]

I want to see less Bishounen Link, and more brown haired OG style Link. Link's Pink Hair in ALttP is awesome and should come back.

Link's pink hair was a spriting thing, it actually isn't pink. Brown hair Link should come back though. Handsome teenager and kawaii chibi Link need to take a break for a while.

I think the biggest thing that happened is that they awakened the triforce of wisdom within Tetra which kind of made her a target for Ganon to go after and more so they keep her in one place hidden. Oh by the way that one place happens to be where Ganon's power is sealed and first awakens when Link gets the Master Sword. Smart move... Instead of keeping her with the pirates who are moving around the vast ocean constantly lets pop flares where she is and put her at the one place Ganon would look. I think it has less to do with sexism and just poor plot/decision writing.

You guys are forgetting The King's master plan to have Ganon piece together the Triforce in order to steal his wish. The King knew what he was doing. The King was after the Triforce just like Ganon. The King used Link and Zelda to distract Ganondorf while he made his wish. He didn't just waltz in there.

Plot hole fixed.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Rabbattack

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think the biggest thing that happened is that they awakened the triforce of wisdom within Tetra which kind of made her a target for Ganon to go after and more so they keep her in one place hidden. Oh by the way that one place happens to be where Ganon's power is sealed and first awakens when Link gets the Master Sword. Smart move... Instead of keeping her with the pirates who are moving around the vast ocean constantly lets pop flares where she is and put her at the one place Ganon would look. I think it has less to do with sexism and just poor plot/decision writing.

As far as the gossip stone goes that pretty much happens in the begining of the game when Link gets trashed in the fortress and they thought he was dead and the King of Red Lions uses it to talk to Link and guide him through the rest of the quest. If anything I think the fact that both Tetra and KoRL can use it serves as a clever allusion to Tetra's connection with the Royal family.

Link's pink hair was a spriting thing, it actually isn't pink. Brown hair Link should come back though. Handsome teenager and kawaii chibi Link need to take a break for a while.

You guys are forgetting The King's master plan to have Ganon piece together the Triforce in order to steal his wish. The King knew what he was doing. The King was after the Triforce just like Ganon. The King used Link and Zelda to distract Ganondorf while he made his wish.

Plot hole fixed.

Hi. Both of you are freaking missing the point. Im well aware of the plot, what Daphnes Nohansen was up to, Ganny, all of that. It does not at all fucking excuse the fact that Tetra's personality fucking disappears when her Triforce is united and she gets a costume change. It does not change that she goes from a pirate lord to a damsel in distress in a matter of seconds. It does not excuse the fact she gets her means of communicating with the hero of the story taken away from her EVEN BEFORE THE PLOT TWIST! He fucking usurps that two dungeons before Tetra gets shoved under a rug. A spunky character with potential very quickly turns into a macguffin. But thanks for the mansplanation anyway. >.> Bad writing be damned, theres no excuse for that. If Zelda is going to be a submissive little creature who waits under an ocean like a good little girl, at least establish that her personality wouldnt conflict with that.

Bolded: Yeah im well aware of that. Thing is, i dont care. Pink Hair Master Race.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Loki Laufeyson

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Hi. Both of you are freaking missing the point. Im well aware of the plot, what Daphnes Nohansen was up to, Ganny, all of that. It does not at all fucking excuse the fact that Tetra's personality fucking disappears when her Triforce is united and she gets a costume change. It does not change that she goes from a pirate lord to a damsel in distress in a matter of seconds. It does not excuse the fact she gets her means of communicating with the hero of the story taken away from her EVEN BEFORE THE PLOT TWIST! He fucking usurps that two dungeons before Tetra gets shoved under a rug. A spunky character with potential very quickly turns into a macguffin. But thanks for the mansplanation anyway. >.> Bad writing be damned, theres no excuse for that. If Zelda is going to be a submissive little creature who waits under an ocean like a good little girl, at least establish that her personality wouldnt conflict with that.

Bolded: Yeah im well aware of that. Thing is, i dont care. Pink Hair Master Race.

The whole thing about Tetra's dead mother could have made her act differently when all was revealed. She must have known about the secrets and legends of the royal family and told Tetra. Why do you think she was looking for the pendant of courage? She was looking for Hyrule.

Plothole fixed again?

The ending was great even if most think the plot suffered, I do enjoy and always will enjoy those endings where Link has to say farewell to his sidekick/guide, no matter how repetitive they may get.

Zelda's story and plot does get really interesting if you look into things more. Before I thought Ganondorf was evil for evils sake, but he was angry at the state of his people and land.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Rabbattack

[Sentacotus]

Hi. Both of you are freaking missing the point. Im well aware of the plot, what Daphnes Nohansen was up to, Ganny, all of that. It does not at all fucking excuse the fact that Tetra's personality fucking disappears when her Triforce is united and she gets a costume change. It does not change that she goes from a pirate lord to a damsel in distress in a matter of seconds. It does not excuse the fact she gets her means of communicating with the hero of the story taken away from her EVEN BEFORE THE PLOT TWIST! He fucking usurps that two dungeons before Tetra gets shoved under a rug. A spunky character with potential very quickly turns into a macguffin. But thanks for the mansplanation anyway. >.> Bad writing be damned, theres no excuse for that. If Zelda is going to be a submissive little creature who waits under an ocean like a good little girl, at least establish that her personality wouldnt conflict with that.

I get that you feel that way and thats fine but not everyone is out to keep women down or justify flawed aspects of games. Like I said I think that part of the game is poorly done. I just happen to think it has more to do with bad writing and plot development than it does with some hidden sexist agenda that the developer may or may not have had.

[SageOfAnys]

I don't understand. What did Twilight Princess do to be such a great game, it didn't stand out much to me. Could some please explain to me why?

To be honest, I'm not afraid to admit that the reason I love TP the most is because of nostalgia. It was the first Zelda I played and I have the fondest memories of that game, but I don't think it's perfect or the best Zelda in existence. Heck, I actually prefer the 2D Zeldas over the 3D ones, but TP is one exception. But to put stuff I liked about the game:

The items, specifically the double clawshot, spinner, and ball and chain were fun items that were brand new and fresh. Though the items really weren't the best to use in battle (except for the ball and chain against certain ice and slow undead enemies) and weren't that useful outside their respective dungeon and the random puzzle or two, it was fun to whip them out and mess around with them at times.

The bosses, despite being easy as usual in Zelda, were fun and unique, and there wasn't ever a boss that felt cheap or annoying. The music that played during the battles were epic, and the little jingle that plays during each boss when you expose their weakness was satisfying as hell. IMO, the Zant battle was more impressive and fun than most Zelda final bosses in my opinion.

Also I love Midna for the same reason that the other people who love her do, so not much to say here. :/

[Misses Elise-chan!]

To be honest, I'm not afraid to admit that the reason I love TP the most is because of nostalgia. It was the first Zelda I played and I have the fondest memories of that game, but I don't think it's perfect or the best Zelda in existence. Heck, I actually prefer the 2D Zeldas over the 3D ones, but TP is one exception. But to put stuff I liked about the game:

The items, specifically the double clawshot, spinner, and ball and chain were fun items that were brand new and fresh. Though the items really weren't the best to use in battle (except for the ball and chain against certain ice and slow undead enemies) and weren't that useful outside their respective dungeon and the random puzzle or two, it was fun to whip them out and mess around with them at times.

The bosses, despite being easy as usual in Zelda, were fun and unique, and there wasn't ever a boss that felt cheap or annoying. The music that played during the battles were epic, and the little jingle that plays during each boss when you expose their weakness was satisfying as hell. IMO, the Zant battle was more impressive and fun than most Zelda final bosses in my opinion.

Also I love Midna for the same reason that the other people who love her do, so not much to say here. :/

Well I guess all my nostalgia went towards the DS games. I still like Twilight Princess though.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I get that you feel that way and thats fine but not everyone is out to keep women down or justify flawed aspects of games. Like I said I think that part of the game is poorly done. I just happen to think it has more to do with bad writing and plot development than it does with some hidden sexist agenda that the developer may or may not have had.

It is a case of bad writing and not an "agenda" on the devs' part. But its still sexist as fuck and the dismissal of that annoys me. Its the fact that feminist commentators flat out fucking ignore this and shame Ocarina of Time for being "sexist" (now that one really isnt sexist at all) is just...

It is also safe to say that Zelda writers are a smidge sexist anyway. They are trying pretty hard in recent years so i cant be too hard on them now. But goddamn, WW. Fucking goddamn. And thats not even going into why Tetra magically turns into a white girl/her tan vanishes. ;////

[Misses Elise-chan!]

It is a case of bad writing and not an "agenda" on the devs' part. But its still sexist as fuck and the dismissal of that annoys me. Its the fact that feminist commentators flat out fucking ignore this and shame Ocarina of Time for being "sexist" (now that one really isnt sexist at all) is just...

It is also safe to say that Zelda writers are a smidge sexist anyway. They are trying pretty hard in recent years so i cant be too hard on them now. But goddamn, WW. Fucking goddamn. And thats not even going into why Tetra magically turns into a white girl/her tan vanishes. ;////

Why can't a women play the damsel in distress role anymore without people complaining and calling out sexism? Why is this sich a bad thing, I already explained the whole deal about her mother. I like it when games have variety in their character's personality. I'm all for strong women in gaming, but please stop shoving this sjw stuff onto every character and game you see.

The magic tan removal was a bit weird, but I'm okay with it as The King was trying to show her who she actually was and the tan was something not from Hyrule, but something gained from the flooded world.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Rabbattack

[Loki Laufeyson]

Why can't a women play the damsel in distress role anymore without people complaining and calling out sexism? Why is this sich a bad thing, I already explained the whole deal about her mother. I like it when games have variety in their character's personality. I'm all for strong women in gaming, but please stop shoving this sjw stuff onto every character and game you see.

The magic tan removal was a bit weird, but I'm okay with it as The King was trying to show her who she actually was and the tan was something not from Hyrule, but something gained from the flooded world.

Damsels in distress are a tired old trope that people often do because they cant think of anything else. Let me ask you: Why do the majority of female characters in video games always get captured. Sometimes more than once in their games? It is not "SJW bullshit" to be tired of seeing that and calling a spade a spade, mate. Too bad for you that the audience and demographic for games is growing, eh? Too bad for you that people want to see more creativity with their female leads. Too bad for you that i have an opinion that is unpopular among young men.

[MCProductions]

Personally, I don't think WW is sexiest in the slightest. Think about it, KRL decided to lock her down there per his secret agenda. Link being Link unwittingly goes along with it not knowing he's being duped, and Kingy and Ganon for all intents and purposes hold the only keys to Hyrule. Its worth pointing out that should Link attempt returning to Hyrule before completeing the triforce, KRL won't let him. He's clearly preventing the only way Zelda has to true safety, while masquerading as a helper.

If anyone's actually sexist here, its KRL, not WW.

[kingddd]

Personally, I don't think WW is sexiest in the slightest. Think about it, KRL decided to lock her down there per his secret agenda. Link being Link unwittingly goes along with it not knowing he's being duped, and Kingy and Ganon for all intents and purposes hold the only keys to Hyrule. Its worth pointing out that should Link attempt returning to Hyrule before completeing the triforce, KRL won't let him. He's clearly preventing the only way Zelda has to true safety, while masquerading as a helper.

If anyone's actually sexist here, its KRL, not WW.

It all makes sense now. All that fetch quests we have been doing all this time was to let him touch the triforce. That ruser.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think Hilda is great because she subverts that tired old trope. Shes just so good. She has you going the whole game. You think "oh look, another princess to save. She may have kicked Yuganon's ass, but shes all 'I need a hero!'" But then you go through the game, listen to her talking to Zelda's portrait and you go "Wait...shes saying some weird ass shit there." and then you get through the game and that ending, man. Holy crap.
"Nope, i did all this junk. I need your Triforce, bucko."

Its awesome. ALBW <3

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Damsels in distress are a tired old trope that people often do because they cant think of anything else. Let me ask you: Why do the majority of female characters in video games always get captured. Sometimes more than once in their games? It is not "SJW bullshit" to be tired of seeing that and calling a spade a spade, mate. Too bad for you that the audience and demographic for games is growing, eh? Too bad for you that people want to see more creativity with their female leads. Too bad for you that i have an opinion that is unpopular among young men.

Too bad for me? I'm okay with all that stuff you said, I agree with putting more creativity in characters personalities, but getting rid of these already existing tropes completely is something I'm against. I just don't like it how people want every female character to be the same way. We have Princess Peach, and then we have Samus Aran. As long as every female character isn't like Samus or Peach I'm fine. Please make a serious discussion thread of this bothers you so much. (I'm a hypocrite, this bothered me too) Edited July 11, 2015 by Rabbattack

[Draco]

For the poll, I'd say either Linebeck or Zelda (SS). Hilda is cool too.

Wouldn't Ravio be a supporting too?

Two unpopular opinions:

I like Phantom Hourglass. Kind of a lot, actually.
I like the Temple of the Ocean King.

[SageOfAnys]

Oh god this poll. I can't choose between Hilda, Midna, or Zelda (ST), I love all of them so much. TO THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR, AWAY!

EDIT: Midna won. Also dat thread title change.

Edited July 11, 2015 by SageOfAnys

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Oh god this poll. I can't choose between Hilda, Midna, or Zelda (ST), I love all of them so much. TO THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR, AWAY!

I thought this would happen, I like Linebeck a lot as a character and his theme is great too, but The King and his slick plan and sacrifice made it hard to choose.

[Florete]

Why can't a women play the damsel in distress role anymore without people complaining and calling out sexism? Why is this sich a bad thing, I already explained the whole deal about her mother. I like it when games have variety in their character's personality. I'm all for strong women in gaming, but please stop shoving this sjw stuff onto every character and game you see.

The magic tan removal was a bit weird, but I'm okay with it as The King was trying to show her who she actually was and the tan was something not from Hyrule, but something gained from the flooded world.

Because the damsel in distress trope is an inherently sexist trope that's been done to death. The damsel in distress is not a character, she's a goal and prize for a (usually) male hero. This isn't to say the trope can't be used well, I'm open to the possibility, but I don't think I've seen any piece of fiction use the trope to its advantage, certainly not any video games. Maybe if we lived in a world where damsel in distress wasn't such a long-running trope it wouldn't be a big deal, but we don't.

For the record, Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game, but that doesn't mean I won't acknowledge its flaws. Tetra's character got completely destroyed the moment she transformed into Zelda.

This derogatory "SJW" bullshit also needs to stop. People take issues with these things because they are actual issues. "SJW" is a really bad term that is only used to deflect from real societal problems and needs to go away.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Shin]

Here's something unpopular, I legitimately and unironically like Tingle. I await the pitchforks and torches.

[kingddd]

Here's something unpopular, I legitimately and unironically like Tingle. I await the pitchforks and torches.

I personally do too. I like how annoying he is in all games. His main game Rupeeland was hilarious.

Also more dumb opinions from me.

I did not like Kirby's Air Ride. City Trial was a mediocre mode at best. The Racing mode was an unbalanced mess, majority of the vehicles was too slippery even with cars that had good handling. This means majority of the time, I would be crashing everywhere. Even with the brake boost feature. The 2nd mode was meh. The unlock system had too much random stuff that I had to constantly look up the internet in order to figure out how to unlock one specific thing.

[Irony]

I hate the Sims.

[MCProductions]

After a bit of reflection on my part, I now honestly really like Awakening's plot, and feel it's better written than several other FE games.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Because the damsel in distress trope is an inherently sexist trope that's been done to death. The damsel in distress is not a character, she's a goal and prize for a (usually) male hero.

I forgot about that whole prize/goal thing, but Link doesn't go on a quest to save Zelda in Wind Waker. He's trying to save his sister and gets caught up in various events along the way. Link is like 12? He's just a kid, I don't think this women being a goal or prize thing is present in Wind Waker. I apologize for forgetting about why the trope is disliked and coming off as ignorant. I will also stop using the term sjw if it offends the people of SF.

The King of Red Lions made her stay there to get captured and she was looking for Hyrule in the first place. It makes sense to me.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Here's something unpopular, I legitimately and unironically like Tingle. I await the pitchforks and torches.

I dont mind him to be honest. I think hes hilarious and i do enjoy it when other characters are all wigged out by him. Finding him in a cell in WW was funny. Really funny.

I hate the Sims.

I like sim games, but i dont like The Sims. Its kinda creepy. I prefer life sims that have very exaggerated models and stuff. Like Tomodachi Life or Animal Crossing.

After a bit of reflection on my part, I now honestly really like Awakening's plot, and feel it's better written than several other FE games.

I still think the plot is pants, but i love Walhart and Gangrel. And heres the real unpopular opinion (which im very vocal about anyway): Gangrel had the right idea. Emmeryn must go.

[Refa]

The damsel in distress is not a character, she's a goal and prize for a (usually) male hero.

What does that even mean? The damsel isn't dehumanized in the game world (e.g. Mario doesn't view Princess Peach as an object to be won), but in the external sense (e.g. the player has to save the princess, who is generally lacking in any sort of agency which is part of the issue, to win the game). I agree with whatever else you said, but this part really confuses me.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Refa