Titamon Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Geez what was IS thinking when it came to deciding the Nohrian units joining time? For example, Odin joins in Ch. 17. Let's look at his stats: Lv. 12 HP: 24 Str: 8 Mag: 12 Skl: 12 Spd: 10 Luck: 12 Def: 7 Res: 10 WHAT THE FREAK IS? THIS. LOOKS. TERRIBLE. IS WHY? Edited July 11, 2015 by Titamon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Because reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Geez what was IS thinking when it came to deciding the Nohrian units joining time? I'm not convinced that they were thinking, to be honest. Also, since you haven't mentioned it, I assume he has decent magic right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm not convinced that they were thinking, to be honest. Also, since you haven't mentioned it, I assume he has decent magic right? Whoops I forgot to post it. It's 12 magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uchu~ Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 That is pretty ridiculous I mean, they could've at least made his stats slightly better after all ITS CHAPTER 17. The most likely weren't thinking at all, being honest they probably forgot to add him and added him at the end in a random place xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thief Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Reasons to encourage people to actually play through Nohr's story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Any other examples of units joining so late with blah bases? Seriously that 10 speed just screams "Double me!!!!". How strong are the enemies anyway? I heard the 3rd route is the middle in terms of difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haeresis Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Actually, I dont care with stats, if I really like the unity I'll use him/her no matter what. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Giamatti Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Pieri and Lazward, who come alongside Odin, come at level 16 with decent bases. They'll still be underleveled, but it isn't nearly as bad. I also think it's strange that in chapter 14 you get both Arthur and Charlotte with Arthur at 9 and Charlotte at 10. It's weird that they would dump two underleveled of the same class together. It's like the game is telling you to only use one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Any other examples of units joining so late with blah bases? Seriously that 10 speed just screams "Double me!!!!". How strong are the enemies anyway? I heard the 3rd route is the middle in terms of difficulty. Zero. He joins in CH. 17 at level 14 with 24 hp, 11 str and 17 spd. Depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well depending on the difficulty it's not completely impossible to use them or anything..though they kind of will need to be babied I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Was watching Maurice's stream (Hard) and from the looks of things in chapter 17, pretty much all the subordinates joining at that point will have some trouble at least on HM and above. Pieri has it the best, I think, if you can manage to get her to kill things, but otherwise you might as well not bother and just stick to using Marx and Leon. Like there's enemies that just straight up oneshot Odin and it's not exactly easy to baby him when it's like that. Edited July 12, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minischew Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Was watching Maurice's stream (Hard) and from the looks of things in chapter 17, pretty much all the subordinates joining at that point will have some trouble at least on HM and above. Pieri has it the best, I think, if you can manage to get her to kill things, but otherwise you might as well not bother and just stick to using Marx and Leon. Like there's enemies that just straight up oneshot Odin and it's not exactly easy to baby him when it's like that. I'm just kind of confused as to the point of making the late-game characters so weak. It doesn't really seem to contribute much to strategy, aside from forcing the player to choose only two out of the five (or so) late recruits to baby. Do they want to limit our experience with characters for replayability purpose? Edited July 12, 2015 by Minischew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm just kind of confused as to the point of making the late-game characters so weak. It doesn't really seem to contribute much to strategy, aside from forcing the player to choose only two out of the five (or so) late recruits to baby. Do they want to limit our experience with characters for replayability purpose? They really should've adjusted their stats better; FE:A's implementation of hard mode bonuses was also quite good, and everyone was usable if you tried hard enough even on Lunatic. I wish that was brought back. Unfortunately, unless even HM bonuses weren't enough to save Odin, it seems like it wasn't, which is quite unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yeah, there doesn't appear to be any It seems like in general, they "didn't care" about balancing the stats as much in 3rd route. In their "defense" they probably though that squishy units being squishy (you can probably count the number of units that can seriously tank on one hand..maybe?), plus the fact that it's supposed to be more strategic instead of numbers (not sure about the exact numbers though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) it's... pretty bad for Odin, anyway. At chapter 17, there are many promoted enemies on the map, and I saw one Paladin do something like 28 damage to his 27 HP. The physical units (barring Marx and Leon, who are respectively TANK and decently durable and also promoted and don't have shitty stats) can take slightly more hits (but not much more, like one more) but it's not just their durability that's an issue. They also do not damage those enemies well at all. Basically outclassed in every way. It'd be more useful to capture a generic promoted unit than them at that point, even. I'm more lenient about having to baby units early on, because if you baby them early you might get a solid payoff later for the long term. But at that point in the game? They don't have to be great but like, at least Cherche on Lunatic's level of usability might be nice Edited July 12, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) With those stats, I think they're encouraging you to take part in skirmishes and castle battles. It also gives you someone to protect in the chapter they join in. Edited July 12, 2015 by nocturnal YL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minischew Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 With those stats, I think they're encouraging you to take part in skirmishes and castle battles. It also gives you someone to protect in the chapter they join in. That just seems a bit odd to me, since one of the games literally discourage grinding in all ways. And if the Third Path is meant to appeal to both Hoshidan and Nohrian players, that seems like a bad tactic on IS's part, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeus Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) It really seems like they had some trouble working all of the units into the third route. Some have weird recruitment times like Odin, some are bunched together like Chapter 14 with its five units and two of the same class, and some don't have too many changes (or none at all) to their bases when carried over from the other route such as Camilla, Flannel or Nishiki despite coming in earlier or later then in their respective routes. It makes for a weird character balance as you're thrown a lot of units with some falling out of your hands because they weren't given enough to help you hold onto them. Nohr probably suffers though it the most due to the story progression. The game has you go through Hoshido first before you get to Nohr, so most of those units end up on your team before mid-game and thus don't suffer that much. You hit Nohr after Chapter 12, so the Nohr units don't get on your team until mid-to-late game with some having bad bases or join times. Some make it out better then others, but it does mean we have cases like Odin and Zero in there where they just can't keep up and actually can have trouble from the get-go when you obtain them in later difficulties. Edited July 12, 2015 by Medeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayra Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Based on my experience with the game so far (All on hard, one completed Hoshido playthrough, one Hoshido at chapter 23, one Nohr at chapter 22), the units that can survive two hits later in the game are extremely rare. If Odin can survive one hit from a paladin (even with one hit point), then he's just as durable as most of your units. Examples from my chapter 23 Hoshido save. Orochi (Level 20/12 exorcist) 28 HP, 11 Def, 13 Speed. That's pretty comparable to that level 12 base class Odin from a survivability standpoint. Needless to say she gets both 1-shotted and doubled on chapter 23 and earlier. I do admit she has 37 magic though... Hana (Level 20/10 trueblade) 29 HP, 10 Def, 35 Speed. She literally dies in one hit against most enemies, and even with the +5 speed sword she has only 78 evasion which, while good, is not reliable. Honestly, she's a liability overall despite the fact that her offense is amazing; at least the others that die in one hit have 2 range. I'd say about 50% of my resets are due to her. Asura (Level 32 Songstress, had a few Golden Kite levels in there) 22 HP, 8 Def, 35 Speed. Yeah. From my Nohr save: Elise (Level 20/11 strategist) 26 HP, 10 Def, 29 Speed. Also gets 1 shot. Eponnie (Level 20/10 Adventurer) 27 HP, 13 Def, 31 Speed. ie, 57 evasion, less when using any of the more worthwhile bows. The thing is, you have to adjust your perspective when playing Fate compared to other games. Enemies hit dang hard on Hard mode. Any unit that can survive two hits automatically gets elevated to godlike status (or I'm seriously RNG screwed every game). If Odin can survive one hit, he's functionally just as durable as the majority of the game's cast. Let's take Pieri for example, at level 20/5 great knight. 33 HP, 22 Def, 17 Speed. From a functional standpoint, at chapter 22, she's of similar durability to Odin: She still dies in two hits. Edited July 12, 2015 by Ayra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayvee94 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 You can still grind in Invisible Kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) There's a somewhat interesting point though, like, in Hama's stream, he did like, no grinding I believe, and in Chap 26, where he had 16 slots, he didn't have enough capable characters to field. One of the characters (was actually amiibo ike, hadn't been used in 10 chapters, basically still base level) was ORKO'd, his amiibo lucina managed to stay alive, but was thoroughly unimpressive. By the time he hit Chap 27 he had Foleo and Velour to fill their slots. Granted, it might be a grinding related thing, but who knows.... For example, he benched Ryoma and Xander, but around Chapter 20 or so he brought them back because..well yeah. A few other problems as well. Edited July 12, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) If Odin can survive one hit from a paladin (even with one hit point), then he's just as durable as most of your units. The thing is he doesn't He literally gets oneshot, it wasn't 27 damage to 28 hp, it's the other way around; Had full health, died to one thing on EP so hard Maurice was surprised It wasn't even like Hana where yeah, no durability whatsoever but solid af damage, though He doesn't really damage nor can take a single hit Edited July 12, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twylis Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm going to go ahead and assume this was due to rushing the DLC to hurry and get it out close to the game's release, and in that process, deciding to devote no time whatsoever to character balance. ​It really is like they just flat-out didn't try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Even some of earlier joining characters have questionable stats. CH. 9, Lv. 4 Rinkah HP: 20, Str: 8, Spd: 8, Def: 10 But in the same chapter we get Tsukuyomi who is 5 levels higher and has better stats across the board except Str and Def. IS why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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