Yari Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Nohr and Hoshido are going to need a lot of fix it fics/fanworks that's for sure. Poor Nohr is going to need those fix its especially.Making Hoshido story better seems easy enough for me so does Touma but Nohr...Nohr is going to be a pain in the arse! It's not just changing and adding dialog and scenes! It's a huge story change! I wanna say it's gonna be easy but it won't it's gonna be a nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taka-kun Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Making Hoshido story better seems easy enough for me so does Touma but Nohr... Nohr is going to be a pain in the arse! It's not just changing and adding dialog and scenes! It's a huge story change! I wanna say it's gonna be easy but it won't it's gonna be a nightmare! I don't know about the Nohrian story yet, but I don't think it will be too hard to plug some holes and move some events around. For example (and for example, not spoilers), say Ganz dies at the penultimate chapter by some accident instead of Kamui having the balls to do it. Then in the fanfic, you can move Ganz's death to much earlier and connect it to Kamui's motives/actions (such as revenge) and delegate Ganz's future actions (if he even had any) to another character. The end result would still be that Ganz dies, but you modified it so it connects to your story better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yari Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I don't know about the Nohrian story yet, but I don't think it will be too hard to plug some holes and move some events around. For example (and for example, not spoilers), say Ganz dies at the penultimate chapter by some accident instead of Kamui having the balls to do it. Then in the fanfic, you can move Ganz's death to much earlier and connect it to Kamui's motives/actions (such as revenge) and delegate Ganz's future actions (if he even had any) to another character. The end result would still be that Ganz dies, but you modified it so it connects to your story better. Ganz appear around the early six chapters before you make the choice and iirc he tries to kill Gunther. I plan on using two Kamuis (cynical female,idealistic male) since I'll try to tie the three routes together in a way and I'll use Ganz as a bit of a plot device. I'll probably have him try to kill Gunther twice one time when male Kamui is there and another with female Kamui to show the diference between the way they react to the situation and it will happen either in the same chapter or in a chapter and then in the following but I'm not sure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure one of you should start a fanfic thread, because I feel like the current discussion is a bit off topic, and it's a really exciting thing to talk about.I'm not trying to mod or anything, and I know it's a bit hypocritical of me since I'm guilty of derailing a few threads, but I just think the two of you would have a better time talking about fanfics in a separate thread where your discussion wouldn't be interrupted by other topics. Edited July 20, 2015 by Thane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) I suggest that the thread could double as an overall "Fix Fates' narrative" topic. Honestly though, I admit that Hydra's character does intrigue me in that you could spin him as a representation of the dragons' role in mankind's development throughout past Fire Emblem games. Unfortunately his use in the narrative is sloppy, from the Darth Vader twist that comes off an excuse to let Kamui marry both sets of siblings, the contrived curse that prevents Aqua from informing anybody outside of Touma who can make a difference about Hydra's plans, and how ultimately he's just an "Ultimate Mastermind Behind It All" to be such a bad man that two serious enemies of each-other can friend-up against him. Earlier in this thread, I brought up a dragon version of the White Man's Burden as an alternative to Kill All Humans. I'm picturing Hydra's faction as more of an alternative to the two kingdoms that a Kamui who rejects both kingdoms could join. One with a campaign slogan of "Man is suffering under other men, a new order must rise to deliver man from this darkness" to draw in the peasantry, the crushed by either kingdom, those who reject the rule of other men for the rule of the dragon, and so on. Edited July 20, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The only way to fix Conquest's plot is to completely rewrite it. Not only that, but you'd probably have to rework the setting entirely. As it is, the way Hoshido as a nation is written and portrayed just doesn't allow for any real sense of moral greyness. It really is a shame how Conquest's plot turned out. Even Birthright ended up better, despite being typical (although I have issues with that route too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yari Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I might just have to start a thread for "Fixing the issues in Fates story" because this is not the right one for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The only way to fix Conquest's plot is to completely rewrite it. Not only that, but you'd probably have to rework the setting entirely. As it is, the way Hoshido as a nation is written and portrayed just doesn't allow for any real sense of moral greyness. It really is a shame how Conquest's plot turned out. Even Birthright ended up better, despite being typical (although I have issues with that route too). One of the problems is how they marketed the two versions. They outright said Birthright was simple and traditional, so people didn't expect it to have a groundbreaking story. Conquest, however, was said to have a complex story, but I think the word they were looking for was "convoluted", and thus let a lot of people down. I might just have to start a thread for "Fixing the issues in Fates story" because this is not the right one for this. That does sound interesting. I'm no writer but I'd love to participate in a thread like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) As it is, the way Hoshido as a nation is written and portrayed just doesn't allow for any real sense of moral greyness. Therein lies the problem. Hoshido is written as utterly perfect (outside of one person). There's nothing that's squarely their fault. We assumed that Aqua was captured before Kamui, but nope! It was done during an attempt to get Kamui back, and ergo justified. Plus, they treated her extremely well (besides that same one person), compared to Kamui's POW treatment for several years following his capture. Oboro hates Nohrians? Oh, that's because her parents were killed by them. Kumagara has human skulls on his belt and looks as menacing as, well, an oni? Nah, he just wants to kill Garon. And then there's the whole Kamui-starts-regretting-siding-with-Nohr-as-soon-as-the-end-of-chapter-6 deal. And let's not get started on how beautiful Hoshido's portrayed, compared to Nohr's capital looking like the darker side of Mordor. Hoshido needed more Takumis. Preferably ones that don't get demonized before having their character gutted on one side, but that's a rant for another day. Edited July 20, 2015 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Therein lies the problem. Hoshido is written as utterly perfect (outside of one person). There's nothing that's squarely their fault. We assumed that Aqua was captured before Kamui, but nope! It was done during an attempt to get Kamui back, and ergo justified. Plus, they treated her extremely well (besides that same one person), compared to Kamui's POW treatment for several years following his capture. Oboro hates Nohrians? Oh, that's because her parents were killed by them. Kumagara has human skulls on his belt and looks as menacing as, well, an oni? Nah, he just wants to kill Garon. And then there's the whole Kamui-starts-regretting-siding-with-Nohr-as-soon-as-the-end-of-chapter-6 deal. And let's not get started on how beautiful Hoshido's portrayed, compared to Nohr's capital looking like the darker side of Mordor. Hoshido needed more Takumis. Preferably ones that don't get demonized before having their character gutted on one side, but that's a rant for another day. Well, Hoshido isn't as perfect as you think, for example Aqua suffered racism and a lot people wanted her dead, simply for being from Nohr, in fact on the Conquest path, the whole reason Aqua is in Nohr was not because she wanted to join Kamui, but because some Hoshidans used Mikoto's death and Kamui's betrayal as an excuse to banish her, and even on the Birthright path she's not completely safe, since without Mikoto's protection some Hoshidans start sending assasins to kill her. Granted Nohr is still portrayed as the more "evil" country, but that doesn't mean Hoshido is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taka-kun Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well, Hoshido isn't as perfect as you think, for example Aqua suffered racism and a lot people wanted her dead, simply for being from Nohr, in fact on the Conquest path, the whole reason Aqua is in Nohr was not because she wanted to join Kamui, but because some Hoshidans used Mikoto's death and Kamui's betrayal as an excuse to banish her, and even on the Birthright path she's not completely safe, since without Mikoto's protection some Hoshidans start sending assasins to kill her. Granted Nohr is still portrayed as the more "evil" country, but that doesn't mean Hoshido is perfect. I guess the problem is that it's mentioned once and never again? Perhaps to justify Aqua's appearance in Nohr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well, Hoshido isn't as perfect as you think, for example Aqua suffered racism and a lot people wanted her dead, simply for being from Nohr, in fact on the Conquest path, the whole reason Aqua is in Nohr was not because she wanted to join Kamui, but because some Hoshidans used Mikoto's death and Kamui's betrayal as an excuse to banish her, and even on the Birthright path she's not completely safe, since without Mikoto's protection some Hoshidans start sending assasins to kill her. Granted Nohr is still portrayed as the more "evil" country, but that doesn't mean Hoshido is perfect. I think the problem is that the game overlooks this and still treats all Hoshidans even the ones who do this kind of stuff as being right in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well, Hoshido isn't as perfect as you think, for example Aqua suffered racism and a lot people wanted her dead, simply for being from Nohr, in fact on the Conquest path, the whole reason Aqua is in Nohr was not because she wanted to join Kamui, but because some Hoshidans used Mikoto's death and Kamui's betrayal as an excuse to banish her, and even on the Birthright path she's not completely safe, since without Mikoto's protection some Hoshidans start sending assasins to kill her. Granted Nohr is still portrayed as the more "evil" country, but that doesn't mean Hoshido is perfect. That's an extreme example of "tell, don't show", which is one of the big no-nos of storytelling. It's never seen, and it's forgotten about immediately afterwards and affects absolutely nothing; it's literally just an excuse to include Azura in that path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The Subaki support with Aqua does show the assassins trying to come for her as I recall, which is where she mentions how there are people in Hoshido who want her dead even before Mikotos death. And the assassins coming after Kamui are always doing it for vengeance and hatred rather than just doing their jobs. Vengeance and hate is far from being a virture. Except for when Hoshidans embrace it of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) This topic slipped away. I forgot about it. Anyway, all of the examples in the last are restricted to supports or otherwise underexplored that it's silly to use them to suggest there was ever a serious effort to grey the conflict. Edited August 16, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saisymbolic Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 In terms of Awakening, I know this probably isn't what people are looking for but there is a story on FFN called "Cycle" that's done a pretty good job so far at world-building, character development. Now, it is a Self-Insert story, there is some shipping, and it does divulge from the canon story line as it is its own thing (if that makes sense) but I think it does a pretty good job at filling in some of the plot holes and things that Awakening suffers from. (But, this is just my opinion and I'm not really anybody special as this is my first post on this site.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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