Jedi Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think it's possible for a series to be over-repped, though I'm not sure we've hit that yet if we discount the clones. To be honest, though, I'm much less worried about a series being over-repped and more worried about the characters chosen just being...good. Good and prominent in their own series as well as good in Smash. I honestly agree with this sentiment, at this point in time, out of all the series that have playable characters in smash, I feel their numbers are just about fine. Some may be questionably small, but in the long run, I feel most series in the game have the more prominent members from their franchises, which of course could be a different debate entirely. I may do a list of all the characters and how they show a part of their series in smash, later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Here's my..... Nintendo Franchise Representation Tier List (Including "free dessert" characters and DLC) Top Tier (If you haven't played it ever, you're not a Nintendo fan) Mario: 9 (Yoshi and Wario are still Mario characters. Get over it.) Pokemon: 6 Zelda: 5 Fire Emblem: 5 High Tier (Sakurai's bias?) Kirby: 3 Kid Icarus: 3 Mid Tier (Satisfactory representation) Donkey Kong: 2 Metroid: 2 Star Fox: 2 Earthbound: 2 Low Tier (For smaller/dead/casual game series) Animal Crossing: 1 Wii Fit: 1 Pikmin: 1 F-Zero: 1 Xenoblade: 1 Bottom Tier (Enjoy your assist trophies) Everything else: 0 Various Retro Nintendo: 4 (I counted Little Mac here.) Third Party: 4 Edited July 23, 2015 by Zera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Mario: 9 (Yoshi and Wario are still Mario characters. Get over it.) They may have started as Mario character's but they are clearly their own things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 How does Fire Emblem have 5 but Kid Icarus has 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 How does Fire Emblem have 5 but Kid Icarus has 3? More games. Kid Icarus has only had 2 maybe 3 if you count that one on the GameBoy. I could see them adding Medusa and possibly Magnus in the future though. Phosphera would be another good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) How does Fire Emblem have 5 but Kid Icarus has 3? Kid Icarus has 2, not 3. You must have misread my post. Whoops, forgot Dark Pit. Edited July 23, 2015 by Zera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiseki Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (Including "free dessert" characters and DLC) Kid Icarus: 2 Dark Pit is a character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Kid Icarus has 2, not 3. You must have misread my post.Guh, that was supposed to say "Kid Icarus has 2." As in: "How does Fire Emblem have 5 but Kid Icarus has 2?" Because if Lucina counts to bring FE to 5, Dark Pit counts to bring KI to 3. Edited July 23, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Kid Icarus has 2, not 3. You must have misread my post. How does it only have 2? Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ars Nova Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I dunno if a series can have too much or too little rep, but I do believe it makes no sense to keep piling on characters from a series that has 6 when there are core franchises trailing at 2, and some beloved series with no representation at all. Although it's hard for me to join this debate tbh because I really just... Why didn't anyone vote for Wonder Red in the poll. He has a plausible moveset he LOOKS like a Smash character there's already W101 trophies/music in the game IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. I'm also hoping for some of the indie darlings to make the cut (Shovel Knight, Shantae etc.) just because it would send such an overwhelmingly positive message to developers. But I also know that everybody has their biases and wants their favorites to make it in, and at some point it's about what will please most people, not please a few people the most. Edited July 23, 2015 by Ars Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why didn't anyone vote for Wonder Red in the poll. He has a plausible moveset he LOOKS like a Smash character there's already W101 trophies/music in the game IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Because The Wonderful 101 isn't a series yet, nor has it sold as much as the best selling Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, and Chibi-Robo games. Issac, Isa, and Chibi-Robo are all more relevant to Nintendo's history than Wonder Red, and have just as much moveset potential. Red would have to dominate the polls to have any chance at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Because The Wonderful 101 isn't a series yet, nor has it sold as much as the best selling Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, and Chibi-Robo games. Issac, Isa, and Chibi-Robo are all more relevant to Nintendo's history than Wonder Red, and have just as much moveset potential. Red would have to dominate the polls to have any chance at all. The fact that you used best selling with any of those series is hilarious to me, even if I do enjoy Golden Sun and had a decent time with Sin & Punishment 64. All 3 of those are niche, Wonderful 101 is more recent as well. I don't see your argument doing anything against the likes of say Shulk (as much as I love Xenoblade, it isn't quite SUPER BIG) or in past games say the Ice Climbers who were a one off. Edited July 24, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Wonderful 101 sold all of 0.34M units Golden Sun (as a series) sold 3.75M units Sin & Punishment (as a series) sold 0.55M units Chibi-Robo (as a series) sold 0.77M units the only ones with a remotely good case are Golden Sun and Chibi-Robo (since Nintendo has been pushing Chibi-Robo pretty hard lately iirc) Golden Sun really doesn't belong in the same category of niche-ness. Its worst-selling game alone sold as much as the next highest-selling series. (all figures from VGChartz; if this is an awful source lemme know) e: refa informs me it's an awful source but I doubt it's off by an order of magnitude and there's nothing better Edited July 24, 2015 by Euklyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wonderful 101 sold all of 0.34M units Golden Sun (as a series) sold 3.75M units Sin & Punishment (as a series) sold 0.55M units Chibi-Robo (as a series) sold 0.77M units the only ones with a remotely good case are Golden Sun and Chibi-Robo (since Nintendo has been pushing Chibi-Robo pretty hard lately iirc) Golden Sun really doesn't belong in the same category of niche-ness. Its worst-selling game alone sold as much as the next highest-selling series. (all figures from VGChartz; if this is an awful source lemme know) e: refa informs me it's an awful source but I doubt it's off by an order of magnitude and there's nothing better Ok I'll give you Golden Sun, but ouch on the rest, I was fairly sure 101 had sold a little better then that. Who knows we may see a rise in Chibi Robo and Sin & Punishment, but Sakurai seems hellbent on 101 getting stuff (I mean they have an entire trophy case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 nah i don't remember 101 selling too well, hell i remember back on its early days there were many jokes about "the wonderful 101 sales" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) nah i don't remember 101 selling too well, hell i remember back on its early days there were many jokes about "the wonderful 101 sales" Sales haven't stopped people before! I mean hell, Roy was in Melee before they even knew if Binding Blade would do well, granted smash helped it be one of the best FE's sold in in Japan only (second behind FE3? I think from just Nippon sales before Awakening happened of course). I mean hardly anyone remembered the Ice Climbers or Pit. Alot of people didn't even know who Shulk was, or going back to Brawl, Ike because Tellius had sold incredibly poor in both Japan and the west. Not saying Wonder Red had that much of a chance, i'm just saying its not 100% impossible. Edited July 24, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Sales haven't stopped people before! I mean hell, Roy was in Melee before they even knew if Binding Blade would do well, granted smash helped it be one of the best FE's sold in in Japan only (second behind FE3? I think from just Nippon sales before Awakening happened of course). I mean hardly anyone remembered the Ice Climbers or Pit. Alot of people didn't even know who Shulk was, or going back to Brawl, Ike because Tellius had sold incredibly poor in both Japan and the west. Not saying Wonder Red had that much of a chance, i'm just saying its not 100% impossible. you are right and there's no problem with that. there's only a problem with people trying to bullshit thier favorite games by saying they had Call of duty sales when they had peanuts thats an over exaggeration but you get my point, i love tellius but at no point do i ever say "these games sold better then shadow dragon" which is just plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Sales haven't stopped people before! I mean hell, Roy was in Melee before they even knew if Binding Blade would do well, granted smash helped it be one of the best FE's sold in in Japan only (second behind FE3? I think from just Nippon sales before Awakening happened of course). I mean hardly anyone remembered the Ice Climbers or Pit. Alot of people didn't even know who Shulk was, or going back to Brawl, Ike because Tellius had sold incredibly poor in both Japan and the west. Not saying Wonder Red had that much of a chance, i'm just saying its not 100% impossible. Pit and Ice Climbers were added for their retro status. Xenoblade initially wasn't notable, but it gained such a strong cult following alongside critical acclaim that Shulk ended up being a very popular character among fans. Lastly, Tellius did not sell "incredibly poorly." I really don't want to get into another argument about how well those games did, but it's often very exaggerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) you are right and there's no problem with that. there's only a problem with people trying to bullshit thier favorite games by saying they had Call of duty sales when they had peanuts thats an over exaggeration but you get my point, i love tellius but at no point do i ever say "these games sold better then shadow dragon" which is just plain wrong. Yeah, I agree. I love Tellius too, but well.. Sadly they didn't do as hot as they should've. Pit and Ice Climbers were added for their retro status. Xenoblade initially wasn't notable, but it gained such a strong cult following alongside critical acclaim that Shulk ended up being a very popular character among fans. Lastly, Tellius did not sell "incredibly poorly." I really don't want to get into another argument about how well those games did, but it's often very exaggerated. Yea with Pit and IC I did pull that a bit out of the blue, and Xenoblade I suppose did have a bit of a following in Europe, I mean thats where I first heard of the game was a commentary channel I follow called HellfireComms who is based in the UK. Well, I guess I should have said poorly in relation to the rest of the franchise, would that wording be more proper? Not to argue, just to ask. Edited July 24, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Yea with Pit and IC I did pull that a bit out of the blue, and Xenoblade I suppose did have a bit of a following in Europe, I mean thats where I first heard of the game was a commentary channel I follow called HellfireComms who is based in the UK. Well, I guess I should have said poorly in relation to the rest of the franchise, would that wording be more proper? Not to argue, just to ask. Ya know, my explaining the Shulk part wasn't exactly wrong, but I didn't realize at the time that he does still perfectly fit your point of "sales aren't everything." His game was recent, the sales weren't stellar (not really bad iirc, though), and he got in. There's an explanation, but he did. Eh, maybe. PoR sold about average, RD a little under par. In raw numbers they sold less than the handheld games, but that's natural. For the record, while I still wouldn't necessarily have agreed, I probably wouldn't have bothered mentioning anything at all if you hadn't said "incredibly poorly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 yeah i feel ya fox, i never once stated that they sold poorly just "they didn't sell as well as the handhelds" which is a fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Ya know, my explaining the Shulk part wasn't exactly wrong, but I didn't realize at the time that he does still perfectly fit your point of "sales aren't everything." His game was recent, the sales weren't stellar (not really bad iirc, though), and he got in. There's an explanation, but he did. Eh, maybe. PoR sold about average, RD a little under par. In raw numbers they sold less than the handheld games, but that's natural. For the record, while I still wouldn't necessarily have agreed, I probably wouldn't have bothered mentioning anything at all if you hadn't said "incredibly poorly." Sorry my choice of wording was bad, at the time it just sounded good in my head ^^;. I realize now it was quite the poor choice. Thanks for pointing it out Edited July 24, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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