Espinosa Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Uh, if you could do the same run but a) had to visit every gaiden, b) had to recruit every character, how do you think that would go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Uh, if you could do the same run but a) had to visit every gaiden, b) had to recruit every character, how do you think that would go? Having to visit every gaiden would be real annoying because of killing off characters. I suppose forcing Marth to visit vilages and stuff to recruit other characters would give you ample time to do so... but what is the point in recruiting characters just to kill them off? Oh, maybe you meant the two questions separately. In that case, I don't think I would ever be interested in run a); run b) would be interesting to do, though I'd have to remake the warp staff allocation. I imagine the overall delay will be at most 20 turns (so a sub-75 clear is probably possible), though I imagine it could probably be done sub-70. EDIT: Never mind, I forgot about silly things like waiting for Calla/Patria/Est to show up on maps, so probably sub-80 would be the best I could say without actually making a plan. Edited October 27, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Run A (either alone or together with B) would mean finding the right time to kill off units + managing a smaller army. You couldn't warpskip some of the maps because you'd have to wait for a chance to kill off a character for example. I think gaidens give you excessive warp uses in this game though... Then again, recruiting everybody means you could afford to train more units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Regarding the next chapter, I would have love to make Xemcel's kill "reliable" by having Caeda double him with the Wyrmslayer, but unfortunately she is one HP short (i.e. one level short) of having enough HP to withstand his counterattack. Therefore I am left choosing between the usual option, rigging two crit kills, or having Jake hit Xemcel first, and then Caeda finishing him off. While the latter seems nicer, I have been rigging things the entire playthrough, so it doesn't seem in the spirit of things to not rig criticals when I can easily do so with map saves and gain more EXP/kills... but what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Run A (either alone or together with B) would mean finding the right time to kill off units + managing a smaller army. You couldn't warpskip some of the maps because you'd have to wait for a chance to kill off a character for example. I think gaidens give you excessive warp uses in this game though... Then again, recruiting everybody means you could afford to train more units. If doing run A + run B, the only gaidens you might seem to have trouble getting kill for would be 17x and 20x. However, in the first case, you can simply kill off some units in 17 when Marth has to recruit Samson/Arran (send people toward the locked door and have them suicide on the Hero on turn 2/3) and Xane. In the latter case, you have plenty of time waiting for Est to show up in Chapter 18 to get people killed off. 6x and 12x obviously happen early enough that people dying isn't an issue, and 24x is based on not getting Falchion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Lol. I remember, at the start of this run, you did mention not want to rig THAT much. But all I see is (near) "perfect" level ups and crits all the time. I mean, that Jake could've killed ANYTHING a long time ago, same goes for Shiida. But still it seems (to me) you're wasting time getting the right RNG, just to become more overpowered. Didn't you want to make reliable strats? Your chapter 1, 2 and 3 where perfectly for that. But then you got 4 craziness. Suddenly you wanted to use the arena? Then you went berserk on Bishop Jagen and DracoKnight Hardin? If you want to improve this run, or do it something different, try to make it more "easily" to obtain/copy. I am sure, that with your funds, and minimal rigging you CAN recruit Merric. Won't Marth and Merric be safe if you put Merric on the spot 1 north of the knight? Or rig one crit, I am sure that's acceptable, as it is at the start of the battle. But 7 is to much. Then do chapter 5, like you did before, but this time recruit Wendell. No fancy level up, Shiida only needs strength really, rest should come naturally. Nothing wrong with Chapter 6. Same goes for chapter 7 (but DO recruit Bantu). Chapter 8 also perfectly legit. Then Chapter 9, which has a needed Shiida crit. legit. Use battlesave for the Jagen crit Silver Lance. Maybe get Shiida a slightly modified Javelin? How much strength does Jagen need for that critkill on the boss? You can spare some funds, right? Could Jagen reach A-lances in time, if he doesn't do staff EXP? You did a nice job on the other chapters, but went a bit crazy on farming EXP, which you won't really need to complete your quest. Maybe try to find a way to 1 turn Ch17x? Still much to improve I think, before you do something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I can't really comment on this because I'm amazed by the awesomeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Lol. I remember, at the start of this run, you did mention not want to rig THAT much. But all I see is (near) "perfect" level ups and crits all the time. I mean, that Jake could've killed ANYTHING a long time ago, same goes for Shiida. But still it seems (to me) you're wasting time getting the right RNG, just to become more overpowered. Didn't you want to make reliable strats? Your chapter 1, 2 and 3 where perfectly for that. But then you got 4 craziness. Suddenly you wanted to use the arena? Then you went berserk on Bishop Jagen and DracoKnight Hardin? If you want to improve this run, or do it something different, try to make it more "easily" to obtain/copy. I am sure, that with your funds, and minimal rigging you CAN recruit Merric. Won't Marth and Merric be safe if you put Merric on the spot 1 north of the knight? Or rig one crit, I am sure that's acceptable, as it is at the start of the battle. But 7 is to much. Then do chapter 5, like you did before, but this time recruit Wendell. No fancy level up, Shiida only needs strength really, rest should come naturally. Nothing wrong with Chapter 6. Same goes for chapter 7 (but DO recruit Bantu). Chapter 8 also perfectly legit. Then Chapter 9, which has a needed Shiida crit. legit. Use battlesave for the Jagen crit Silver Lance. Maybe get Shiida a slightly modified Javelin? How much strength does Jagen need for that critkill on the boss? You can spare some funds, right? Could Jagen reach A-lances in time, if he doesn't do staff EXP? You did a nice job on the other chapters, but went a bit crazy on farming EXP, which you won't really need to complete your quest. Maybe try to find a way to 1 turn Ch17x? Still much to improve I think, before you do something else. Chapter 4 had a pretty reliable strategy too (not recruiting Merric), which is what I ran through for the playthrough; it was just Navarre decoying the horsemen (taking every hit), and then Marth critting the boss. I'm sure that the amount of rigging required to recruit Merric > amount of rigging saved by having Wendell. As for the EXP farming... well, I didn't really know what I would need, and it was pretty easy to rig thanks to the fact that I 1 or 2 turned everything and could just use 1 or 2 map saves to crit kill everything... Yeah I don't know, I could probably go back and make things far more reliable... but at the same time I'm kind of lazy, and not particularly excited with this game (especially since I've skipped over half of it). I don't imagine I'll be touching it for a while after I finish this run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Regarding the next chapter, I would have love to make Xemcel's kill "reliable" by having Caeda double him with the Wyrmslayer, but unfortunately she is one HP short (i.e. one level short) of having enough HP to withstand his counterattack. Get the talisman from chapter 23 instead of the bullion (or get both, lol warp) and use it on Caeda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Get the talisman from chapter 23 instead of the bullion (or get both, lol warp) and use it on Caeda. Can't get both, I only have 3 warpers, and 2 need to send Marth and Caeda to the boss. Also, the easy alternative is just Jake attacks to take him down to like ~35 HP, and then Caeda can finish him off with one blow of a ~+5 forged Wyrmslayer. IIRC I can easily afford a +8 after selling the bullion, all the statboosters, and the 2 master seals. Edited October 27, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Regarding the next chapter, I would have love to make Xemcel's kill "reliable" by having Caeda double him with the Wyrmslayer, but unfortunately she is one HP short (i.e. one level short) of having enough HP to withstand his counterattack. Therefore I am left choosing between the usual option, rigging two crit kills, or having Jake hit Xemcel first, and then Caeda finishing him off. While the latter seems nicer, I have been rigging things the entire playthrough, so it doesn't seem in the spirit of things to not rig criticals when I can easily do so with map saves and gain more EXP/kills... but what do you think? can't you just use Barrier on Caeda? Doesn't the boss have a magestone? I don't know if you sold barrier or have any left though. Edited October 28, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 can't you just use Barrier on Caeda? Doesn't the boss have a magestone? I don't know if you sold barrier or have any left though. Oh right, duh. I guess I'll make Midia a bishop or something (Or I could just forego the Aum staff, it's not like I'm going to use it anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 While we are on the topic of reliability, I suppose I could have also given Caeda a Speedwings last chapter so that she could double the boss (she can survive a hit) with Wing Spear/Ridersbane and kill him, instead of having to rely on the critical. But I don't really know if that is worth remaking the video for... Honestly, I just want this run to be over with so I can move on to one of the actually good other Fire Emblem games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 While we are on the topic of reliability, I suppose I could have also given Caeda a Speedwings last chapter so that she could double the boss (she can survive a hit) with Wing Spear/Ridersbane and kill him, instead of having to rely on the critical. But I don't really know if that is worth remaking the video for... Honestly, I just want this run to be over with so I can move on to one of the actually good other Fire Emblem games. I know what you mean... This FE is rather poor, in that you can't effective build a dodge tank or something like that. Anyway, we could also "discus" how to make a strat more reliable, without you actually playing/recording it. Finish the game, the way you would've wanted. I am pretty sure that if we pump EXP in Shiida, she can just replace Hardin at most places. I also amazes me that your Shiida can't OHKO the boss of ch23 XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I know what you mean... This FE is rather poor, in that you can't effective build a dodge tank or something like that. Anyway, we could also "discus" how to make a strat more reliable, without you actually playing/recording it. Finish the game, the way you would've wanted. I am pretty sure that if we pump EXP in Shiida, she can just replace Hardin at most places. I also amazes me that your Shiida can't OHKO the boss of ch23 XD Well I mean she easily can with a critical. The point is that with a forged Wyrmslayer, she can actually just kill him normally by doubling him (as long as she survives his counter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Regular hit from Jake and two (forged) Javelin hits from Jagen and Wendel isn't enough chip damage for Wyvernslayer Shiida? Would the 46(?) damage that Tiki does be enough to finish im off? Lena, Boah and Elice probably the only Warp squad you need here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 If we aren't having Jake farm for EXP, then actually regular hit from Jake + forged Wyrmslayer from Caeda (one hit) is enough to take care of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Alright SSJ, your wish has been granted, as I'll inject some liveliness into this thread. As it turns out, a 3 turn clear of Chapter 4 is possible, though it involves Jagen making 2 consecutive 85%-hit dodges against archers and sacrificing Abel (Navarre might work as well, though I haven't tested). No other elements of randomness are involved though (besides Marth's critical against the boss), so the strategy would be reasonably reliable up to some map save abuse for the two dodges. Abel could actually be saved as well, if I was willing to rig another ~70% hit dodge for him, but this happens on the same phase as the attacks on Jagen, so it would be difficult? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Alternatively, if it is somehow possible to raise Marth to level 2 BEFORE this chapter begins, then I can think of a strategy that involves no deaths, and no luck besides the critical and a single 95% hit dodge from Marth (which of course can just be save scummed for). But I have no idea where one would get that extra EXP from... perhaps Marth could kill the Hunter in Chapter 1 instead of Caeda? That would leave him just 1 round of combat short of leveling, which hopefully can be arranged somewhere... (or alternatively could be done in Chapter 4 on turn 1, at the cost of buying a Heal staff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 As it turns out, Cain is the right choice to replace Abel as bait! Navarre has the highest durability, but his high Luck means that he does not succeed in aggroing the horsemen away from Marth. However, Cain has one less Def than Navarre. That means there are two choices for me to make in order for Cain to survive (and not have to dodge anything): 1) Reset until both the horsemen and the Armorslayer cav fail to proc an additional point in Str 2) Redo the playthrough from Chapter 2 so that Cain gets either a HP or Def growth on his second level (he got neither). In any case, I guess you can expect me to start working on version 2 of this playthrough sometime soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 OK, since a version 2 of this run is now definitely on the cards, I guess I might as well wrap up the first run. I'm going to be a bit sloppy and not maximize EXP, etc but I don't think it particularly matters at this point. Hopefully all will be done in a couple of hours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So... for now, finish the game with 55 turns. Then try to fine tune it a bit lower, so it will be impossible to break your record? Thus far it seems like you can beat Ch4 in 3 turns? Also a 2 turn in Ch7 should be possible, but we won't recruit Bantu that way. Would a three turn be possible WITH Bantu? If so, we save one turn from not doing Ch24x Never actually tried, but would Wolf/Sedgar be able to get C-staff in time? They don't have the contribution that Jagen does. So potentially they could get enough staff EXP before Ch20? Or even 17x? If we can do 17x in one turn, it would save a turn for Ch20. But still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 So... for now, finish the game with 55 turns. Then try to fine tune it a bit lower, so it will be impossible to break your record? Thus far it seems like you can beat Ch4 in 3 turns? Also a 2 turn in Ch7 should be possible, but we won't recruit Bantu that way. Would a three turn be possible WITH Bantu? If so, we save one turn from not doing Ch24x Never actually tried, but would Wolf/Sedgar be able to get C-staff in time? They don't have the contribution that Jagen does. So potentially they could get enough staff EXP before Ch20? Or even 17x? If we can do 17x in one turn, it would save a turn for Ch20. But still... I've thought Wolf/Sedgar would be a good idea, but they're in the wrong class set... they only have access to the Sorcerer class, which starts at E rank in staves... so they're not any better than Gordin (in fact, they're worse due to later join time). I don't think Marth can reach the village in 2 turns, so there is no way to recruit Bantu and finish in 3. A 2 turn of Chapter 7 may be possible, but it seems unlikely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Chapter 24: I threw everything but the kitchen sink at Caeda's wyrmslayer Laguzslayer because why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Not Ch24x and F after? Both get one turn, right? Ch24x just warps Shiida to the boss and kills it with the same Wyvernslayer? No crit needed I think. You need a crit to finish Medius? Or just kill the bodyguard, sac Tiki and kill with Nagie? Also... THAT SHIIDA!! Edited October 30, 2015 by SSJDennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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