YoshiYogurt Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Are there any new progress notes on this? How much longer will it take to get the script into the games? Kinda eager to play these 2 next Edited September 10, 2015 by YoshiYogurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Are there any new progress notes on this? How much longer will it take to get the script into the games? Kinda eager to play these 2 next First rule of any kind of software development: Eventually or when it's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lantairu Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 First rule of any kind of software development: Eventually or when it's ready. Hah, exactly. And if you do set a release date, it has been proven far too many times that being forced to rush is never a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm pretty sure that has been dead for awhile. Really? Damn, I hadn't been keeping up with it and assumed progress was still being made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiYogurt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Really? Damn, I hadn't been keeping up with it and assumed progress was still being made... Why would he do all this work to translate everything and then just be like "nah its not going into the game" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mage Knight 404 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Why would he do all this work to translate everything and then just be like "nah its not going into the game" ?? As far as I am aware, the Resire program and bookofholsety translating the scripts were always separate. Likely on MP2E's end, they either forgot or other things just cropped up and took precedence. These things unfortunately happen. Alas, it just happened to be the one person who was willing and able to move the translation effort along. So I guess unless someone is willing to step in with the whole hacking process, the translation ain't seeing the light of day in patched format. Also I believe Celice posted earlier that there are still the older methods of inserting text, and while that is true, I think that they're not being used now is that either they(and the notes too I assume?) are woefully out of date and cause problems with formatting, or straight up unavailable, necessitating the need for a program like Resire in the first place. (I might be misinformed though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Twilkitri's files are available still: http://darktwilkitri.thegreatbeyond.net/dtntd_fireemblem4.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Thankfully we don't have to use a patch we do not like; moreover, one can always change the content they dislike if they really want to. this is like the stupidest cop-out ever lol there is merit to having a translation patch that everyone uses because it reduces ambiguity when people talk about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I can do all the hacking. I just need the script and their permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lantairu Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 this is like the stupidest cop-out ever lol there is merit to having a translation patch that everyone uses because it reduces ambiguity when people talk about the game. Totally agree with this. Obviously we don't have to use a patch we don't like, but yeah. What you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreathare Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I can do all the hacking. I just need the script and their permission. I'd try and contact BookofHolsety. He's the head honcho of Project Naga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiYogurt Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 As far as I am aware, the Resire program and bookofholsety translating the scripts were always separate. Likely on MP2E's end, they either forgot or other things just cropped up and took precedence. These things unfortunately happen. Alas, it just happened to be the one person who was willing and able to move the translation effort along. So I guess unless someone is willing to step in with the whole hacking process, the translation ain't seeing the light of day in patched format. Also I believe Celice posted earlier that there are still the older methods of inserting text, and while that is true, I think that they're not being used now is that either they(and the notes too I assume?) are woefully out of date and cause problems with formatting, or straight up unavailable, necessitating the need for a program like Resire in the first place. (I might be misinformed though) That's strange, he just wanted to translate but didn't know or want to make a patch? Strange. Sorry if I'm ignorant and expecting too much, but it's strange how we have near perfect FE1,FE2, FE3, and FE6 patches yet the FE4 and FE5 ones are janky and you can't see the ending to FE4 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikey Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) That's strange, he just wanted to translate but didn't know or want to make a patch? Strange. Sorry if I'm ignorant and expecting too much, but it's strange how we have near perfect FE1,FE2, FE3, and FE6 patches yet the FE4 and FE5 ones are janky and you can't see the ending to FE4 right? I wouldn't call any of the other patches "near-perfect" except maybe FE6, and that one has only reached the level it has after an extensive overhaul by Gringe. Few fan translations are free of issues; whether it be due to inconsistent quality or delay in development; because they're typically produced by unpaid, non-professional volunteers, who are often working for an audience who will be satisfied just to play the damn thing in English and let the kinks be ironed out later. That's the other problem; many fan projects are just raw translations of the original text, with little effort put into refinement or localization. Of course, I'm not putting any blame on fan translators; their work is often long, tiring, and relatively thankless; my main point is that you can't exactly expect professional-grade quality from folks are usually just passionate amateurs doing their best in their free time. Occasionally you'll see an incredibly well-made patch like Mother 3's, but that one had the advantage of Tomato, who was actually a professional Japanese-to-English translator. In the case of FE6, I think Gringe works as an English teacher in Japan, so it has similar roots to its success. Edited September 13, 2015 by TheCosmicDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't call any of the other patches "near-perfect" except maybe FE6, and that one has only reached the level it has after an extensive overhaul by Gringe. (Do note that much of what I write below is based off a mindset that has gotten adjusted enough to the quirks of fan translations that I feel a "decent" fan translation is one that can be defined as "a fan translation that translates enough that the player of the game does not need to read an outside source to understand any plot or mechanics explained in-game.") Taking my own opinions into account, I think Ankoku and Gaiden are as good as they're gonna be considering the limitations of the Famicom - they're both very readable and from my own memory, you had to dig into them for bugs or incomplete text, rather than it being in-your-face like any of the examples of the SFC fan translations. You may have issues with the scripts, but, hey, they're NES scripts, they were never gonna be Shakespeare. Monshou isn't perfect, but besides the attract demo text (Which generally seem the bane of FE fan translations) most of the incomplete stuff was minor, and overall it was serviceable until the Shin Monshou no Nazo fan translation. Seisen's would've probably been fine if all the placeholder stuff and the epilogue was fixed. Part of the reason Seisen is so frustratingly painful to see not have a complete translation (besides the fact that many an old-time FE fan once considered it the best in the franchise, which naturally drives a demand to play it) is because of how obvious it is that the translators put in placeholder text, seemingly with an intent to replace with the proper lines sometime later, and then didn't finish up on it. And Thracia, well.. it seems as of now, fan-translation wise, Thracia's in the worst state of the bunch, for several reasons. While most of Seisen's incompleteness and placeholders pop up near the end, with Thracia it's more like it's mid-way through. It's also rather baffling that, last I checked, it's like I have to choose between having a fully-translated menu interface and having translated story chapters. Edited September 13, 2015 by Kiddo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 That's because Shaya's work on Thracia was about halfway done for proofing and editing, before his hardware failure/lack of interest saw the end of the project. Script insertion was complete for the most part, but he was still in the process of receiving user feedback and refining the project. For some odd reason, the current community expects far more from an incomplete project than is warranted, as well as misunderstands the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 For some odd reason, the current community expects far more from an incomplete project than is warranted, as well as misunderstands the situation. The Fire Emblem fan translaiton community managed (at least) 4 very solid fan translations. Two of these were for the entries that were both the least popular and on the most difficult platform to work with for ROM hacking. (This is referring to the Famicom ones, in case it isn't obvious.) The Jugdral games used to be the most popular ones among the community, up until Nintendo started localizing FE games themselves. Furthermore, the posting of all the available tools in this thread suggests that the lack of interest in hacking the games was due to factors other than technical/hacking problems, which are the usual roadblock in a fan translation's progress. Am I the only one that considers this some kind of strange disconnect? Like, I'm imagining the very fans who put Seisen on a pedestal essentially gave it the shaft, while ol' Marth crept up and gave Sigurd a swift tipper in the crotch. Also, outside the FE community, fan translation standards in general are a bit higher - not so much in regards to scripting quality (The fact is, the debate over literal vs. localized scripts will probably reign for years.), but in that new fan translations I've picked up and tried out didn't seem to just... stop being translated part-way through. With all that in mind, are you really surprised at any misunderstandings that may arise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Actually, no, with this community, half the shit that is said doesn't even phase me anymore. Then again, so many people are on ignore now, maybe I just haven't seen it get worse lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 For what I remember, FE4 and (specially) FE5 are an absolute pain in the neck to hack, because the coding has several layers of protection that any small mistake results in garbage text, bugs, freezes and similar stuff. This is unlike the NES games, which I remember someone here saying that the coding is all text, so making a translated patch is really just replacing the script. (I don't think it's THAT easy, but they're definitely easier to hack than the SNES games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreathare Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Ya I got that its a pain to use the old translater and thats what RESIRE was supposed to be. I don't care, I just want a fully translated FE4(FE5 would be nice also). I really want an epilogue. In MP2E and BOOKOFHOLSETY we trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 For what I remember, FE4 and (specially) FE5 are an absolute pain in the neck to hack, because the coding has several layers of protection that any small mistake results in garbage text, bugs, freezes and similar stuff. This is unlike the NES games, which I remember someone here saying that the coding is all text, so making a translated patch is really just replacing the script. (I don't think it's THAT easy, but they're definitely easier to hack than the SNES games). This current thread on romhacking.net (not that I'd know why this guy isnt going to use the already-provided translation) seems to tell the main pitfall in translating Famicom FEs. The most significant thing to note is that if you don't have enough space in your base ROM for the script, expanding the ROM is a lot more difficult for a Famicom game than it is for a Super Famicom game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 This current thread on romhacking.net (not that I'd know why this guy isnt going to use the already-provided translation) seems to tell the main pitfall in translating Famicom FEs. The most significant thing to note is that if you don't have enough space in your base ROM for the script, expanding the ROM is a lot more difficult for a Famicom game than it is for a Super Famicom game. Dealing with expansion and a limited mapper is indeed one of the largest issues for NES titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Why would he do all this work to translate everything and then just be like "nah its not going into the game" ?? Um... because the guy who's doing the translating and the hacking tool thing were two separate groups. From my understanding, anyway.[/late] I wouldn't call any of the other patches "near-perfect" except maybe FE6, FE1 and FE2 are as good as they're gonna get. The only issue with the current FE2 patch is the 'inventory is full' message when opening a chest doesn't seem to have been proofread/properly translated. They're fully translated (translated well too) and fully functional otherwise.[/also late] Edited September 15, 2015 by L95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 FE1 and FE2 are as good as they're gonna get. The only issue with the current FE2 patch is the 'inventory is full' message when opening a chest doesn't seem to have been proofread/properly translated. They're fully translated (translated well too) and fully functional otherwise.[/also late] Incidentally, I recall the exactly one bug/untranslated line which sounds similar in FE1, since it is likewise caused by doing things with the inventory management that a casual runner wouldn't t do. (IIRC I was going to a shop to stock on weapons and may have filled my max amount of inventory) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreathare Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 so technically if somone knew how to use the old patching system, we could use this translation and make the patch(with permission of course). Would that fix the epilogue glitch along with having theintro and prologue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmola Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 so technically if somone knew how to use the old patching system, we could use this translation and make the patch(with permission of course). Would that fix the epilogue glitch along with having theintro and prologue? Yes, but it would be really annoying to do. In fact, the only reason that the previously existing ending translation (which has been available for years now) has not been inserted is the fact that the branched nature of the ending makes it a nightmare to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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