Jedis Concepts Jedi's Smash 4 Character analysis Project (Currently Bowser)

[Jedi]

So out of nowhere last night I decided I was going to do something goofy. (Starting at Mario this became more of an opinions and MU opinion thing) I encourage all discussion.

I'm gonna update this, either once or twice a day, maybe more if I'm bored. with a replay of each character in order of their creation in the game industry. On For Glory even if it's meh.

So it'll be Game & Watch -> Pac-Man -> Mario, etc.

I'm not good with all the characters, i'm gonna try to at least give a decent replay per character though, this will probably involve some small practice or just using what I've seen other people do, I promise no super top tier play though.

Game & Watch will be in a bit. Who, all things considered. I'm not that good with.

Special thanks to Elie, for helping me with this part. Click the link of the character you wish to see the write up of. G&W and Pac-Man will be done eventually.

1. Mr. Game & Watch (April 28, 1980)
2. Pac-Man (May 22, 1980)
3. Mario (July 9, 1981)
4. Donkey Kong (July 9, 1981)
5. Luigi (July 14, 1983)
6. Little Mac (February 1984)
7. Duck Hunt (April 21, 1984)
8. R.O.B. (July 26, 1985)
9. Peach (September 13, 1985)
10. Bowser (September 13, 1985)
11. Link (February 21, 1986)
12. Zelda (February 21, 1986)
13. Samus (August 6, 1986)
14. Pit (December 19, 1986)
15. Palutena (December 19, 1986)
16. Ryu (August 30, 1987)
17. Mega Man (December 17, 1987)
18. Marth (April 20, 1990)
19. Dr. Mario (July 27, 1990)
20. Yoshi (November 21, 1990)
21. Captain Falcon (November 21, 1990)
22. Sonic (June 23, 1991)
23. Kirby (April 27, 1992)
24. King Dedede (April 27, 1992)
25. Wario (October 21, 1992)
26. Fox (February 21, 1993)
27. Falco (February 21, 1993)
28. Meta Knight (March 23, 1993)
29. Ness (August 27, 1994)
30. Diddy Kong (November 21, 1994)
31. Mewtwo (February 27, 1996)
32. Pikachu (February 27, 1996)
33. Charizard (February 27, 1996)
34. Jigglypuff (February 27, 1996)
35. Sheik (November 21, 1998)
36. Ganondorf (November 21, 1998)
37. Villager (April 14, 2001)
38. Olimar (October 26, 2001)
39. Roy (November 21, 2001)
40. Bowser Jr. (July 19, 2002)
41. Toon Link (December 13, 2002)
42. Zero Suit Samus (February 9, 2004)
43. Ike (April 20, 2005)
44. Lucas (April 20, 2006)
45. Lucario (September 28, 2006)
46. Rosalina (November 1, 2007)
47. Wii Fit Trainer (December 1, 2007)
48. Shulk (June 10, 2010)
49. Dark Pit (March 22, 2012)
50. Robin (April 19, 2012)
51. Lucina (April 19, 2012)
52. Greninja (October 12, 2013)

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jedi

[Shin]

I made a post.

How are you going to handle alt skins? Are you going to skip the Koopalings and Alph?

[Jedi]

I made a post.

How are you going to handle alt skins? Are you going to skip the Koopalings and Alph?

I'm just gonna do Jr and Olimar once lol, no alternates.

And here we go my very bad G&W, I cringe on re-watching this.

He debuted on April 28, 1980 in the gaming world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66_0msrekhs

Game & Watch is a very strange character i've never had good grips with, but seems to have pretty decent follow ups, and I try to punish things with the absolute worst moves like a nitwit.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

That OilSpill KO was outstanding. I wish I was more versed in Gaymanwatch to offer critique, but I'd just say followup throws with what I think is Dthrow->UpB, a standard combo that I get whacked with often

[Jedi]

That OilSpill KO was outstanding. I wish I was more versed in Gaymanwatch to offer critique, but I'd just say followup throws with what I think is Dthrow->UpB, a standard combo that I get whacked with often

Ah right, Dthrow -> UpB lol, also my attempted punish with dair was so questionable haha.

OK NUMBER 2

PAC-MAN Who debuted on May 22, 1980 in the Arcades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11tsM6xEea0

Pac-Man is yet another strange character, but he's pretty fun to be troll with, I manage some really goofy reads.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

:18 - immediately rolls into your grab. I spent the whole match laughing at this

:38 - super Risky but apparently also Super safe approach

1:18 - Excellent punish KO
2:09 - Riding the smash

Good basics indicate that you're not too familiar with WAKKAWAKKA, but your play was well rounded regardless. Go more for Offstage hydrant drops (vs Roy in particular). That slight angle of approach with his UpB recovery is pretty punishable.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Elieson

[Jedi]

:18 - immediately rolls into your grab. I spent the whole match laughing at this

:38 - super Risky but apparently also Super safe approach

1:18 - Excellent punish KO

2:09 - Riding the smash

Good basics indicate that you're not too familiar with WAKKAWAKKA, but your play was well rounded regardless. Go more for Offstage hydrant drops (vs Roy in particular). That slight angle of approach with his UpB recovery is pretty punishable.

Yeah, I'd need some more practice before I started giving advice about how to play Pac-Man, next up is Mario, which could be tomorrow or later today.

Also at Elie's request I'll be describing things I do more in depth. Also I welcome people to come in and post geez

Edited August 4, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

[8/4/15, 1:10:31 AM] Jedi: I'm going to hate myself
[8/4/15, 1:10:33 AM] Jedi: because
[8/4/15, 1:10:36 AM] Euklyd: yeah probably
[8/4/15, 1:10:38 AM] Jedi: G&W is first
[8/4/15, 1:10:51 AM] Euklyd: that's easy just bucket pk flash

YESSSSSSSSSS

Ness should've just saved himself some time and walked off the stage after you pocketed PK Flash lol

[Jedi]

Ok New format

Introduction -> Video -> What I think about the character -> What I think about fighting vs the character I am -> What I think of the general matchup

Also I encourage people to discuss stuff with me ^^

It's the mighty plumber himself! Born in the arcades in July 1981!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZinXQGQ9hhI

Jedi's Thoughts

Mario: The solid all around character, in the past Mario has fallen all over the spectrum. From being good in 64, Ok in Melee and Bad in Brawl.

In smash 4, his tools were all upgraded, he barely has any lag on any moves other then say, fsmash and fair, which to be fair to the fair it's meant to be a power hit, he has a nice projectile, a very trolly reflector in terms of the cape which flips your opponent around, fludd which can gimp some characters.

His A moves pretty much all link into each other due to his near laglessness, his throws are very good, dthrow chains into various moves such as utilt, uair and such, and the bthrow is really good to get someone away from you, or to knock Luma off with Rosalina herself. His nair is godly which can lead into almost any other move flawlessly, if you are super close to Mario and aren't careful, you're gonna eat alot of damage from his tilts

Fighting against Ike: Ike has quite the range with Ragnell, usually an Ike is going to go to their most reliable moves, those being nair, a dthrow followed by a fair, or their jab. Although Ike has alot of range and quite a bit of speed on his moves now, he has some pretty exploitable weaknesses.

First off his strengths, Range, spacing capabilities, can pressure fairly well, has good throws that can chain into various attacks, his jab can be mixed up in different ways including Jab -> Jab -> Dtilt (a good launcher and combo starter), Jab-Grab and some other means. His aerials are spectacular and cover alot of ground, he is dangerous and able to kill at lower %'s and has a dash attack with kill power that can be used after a tech chase from a bthrow. His recoveries while predictable do allow him some room to maneuver, and his counter is fairly decent.

Ike's weaknesses: He's a heavier character so he's easier to combo, his recovery despite having 2 of them are both fairly predictable, although you need to respect Aether as sleeping on it will leave an Ike some room to punish you. Ike is also reliant on reading his opponent for some of his moves to work, be careful of his tilts, zoning Ike out is somewhat more difficult as he can hit some projectiles away with his very good Nair. Keep your cool and try not to make any risky moves, an Ike will usually punish you severely. He's pretty easy to juggle however, and while his moves have gotten faster and have less lag, quite a number of characters have faster moves and can hit him before his land.

Mario vs Ike: Mario needs to be careful of Ike's reach, Ike needs to be wary of Mario getting too close, this lends itself to a very tense match up in my opinion, because whomever controls the space between the characters first usually comes out with the W, Mario can break out of Ike's combos if they are more improvised due to his smaller size, and Ike gets hammered if Mario gets too close, Mario has fireballs however Ike's aerials ALL take them out, although Ike still has to somewhat approach, this makes it less daunting, Mario is more safe on shield then Ike is however, the Ike has to be very very careful. Although with proper spacing you can shut down Mario's combo game very swiftly if he can't get close enough to connect.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jedi

[Tragonight]

F.L.U.D.D. can also completely troll both of Ike's recoveries, especially Quick Draw.

I'm not sure how viable it is now, but back in Brawl (if that's relevant), I faced a really good Mario that gimped me a lot.

[Jedi]

F.L.U.D.D. can also completely troll both of Ike's recoveries, especially Quick Draw.

I'm not sure how viable it is now, but back in Brawl (if that's relevant), I faced a really good Mario that gimped me a lot.

I feel its relevant to bring up (thanks for doing so), F.L.U.D.D has been improved in this game to a decent degree, its a bit more worth using now and its an excellent point, if an Ike like you or me wants to get back on vs a Mario you better hope he doesn't like Fludd (like me lol I typically forget I have the move and I use Mario semi-regularly), or you're high enough to manage a quick draw.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

at low%, you seem to be avoiding just tacking on utilt after utilt after utilt like I see most marios do, in favor of utilt -> dtilt; is that really not optimal, or do you just hate boring ezbake combos?

[Tragonight]

I feel its relevant to bring up (thanks for doing so), F.L.U.D.D has been improved in this game to a decent degree, its a bit more worth using now and its an excellent point, if an Ike like you or me wants to get back on vs a Mario you better hope he doesn't like Fludd (like me lol I typically forget I have the move and I use Mario semi-regularly), or you're high enough to manage a quick draw.

It's not only Quick Draw either, a Mario with good angling, timing, and spacing can gimp Aether.

I haven't been experimenting with it, but it probably has to be fully charged to be exceptionally useful, I think. That's the major downside to it and why I don't see it used fairly often.

Anyway, you seem pretty good, I don't think I'm anywhere near your level of skill, but do you want to play some time? NNID in sig. Can't right now though, perhaps tomorrow or the day after?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Tragonight

[Jedi]

at low%, you seem to be avoiding just tacking on utilt after utilt after utilt like I see most marios do, in favor of utilt -> dtilt; is that really not optimal, or do you just hate boring ezbake combos?

Uh well, haha I've had too many people DI out of those utilts that I called it a bad habit and started trying to improvise.

It's not only Quick Draw either, a Mario with good angling, timing, and spacing can gimp Aether.

I haven't been experimenting with it, but it probably has to be fully charged to be exceptionally useful, I think. That's the major downside to it and why I don't see it used fairly often.

Anyway, you seem pretty good, I don't think I'm anywhere near your level of skill, but do you want to play some time? NNID in sig. Can't right now though, perhaps tomorrow or the day after?

Yeah, if you can get under stage though, Fludd can't get Aether, but then again Mario can go off stage and bair you against the wall if you time that badly.

Thanks for the compliment, I think i'm merely average, so

Sure I'd love to play sometime, Jedisupersonic is my NNID, if you get to it first.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Man, Jedi, I'm afraid to play against you now... ._. (I'm an Ike main, remember...)

[Jedi]

Man, Jedi, I'm afraid to play against you now... ._. (I'm an Ike main, remember...)

I'm an Ike main too! It's part of how I know how he works. I think you'd do better then this Ike did.

Just Relax, lol. Also we should be able to play SOMETIME, although I may want to focus on this series first (Ike is a ways off too sadly lol)

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I should do better, I think (that Ike didn't utilize any grabs or combos that I use). But I don't know if I'd do THAT much better...

But yeah, let's play sometime anyway! Finally. XD I'll have time tomorrow after work. I get home at roughly 12:30 PM, then I need lunch. EST, btw. Oh, but I understand if you want to focus on this series too!

Edited August 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[Great Geargia Gateway]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11tsM6xEea0

What is that Roy doing? He countered and KO'ed and I'm like. "He's getting somewhere." Apparently not.

As we all know. Ike Vs. Mario is pretty scary. A pretty hard counter tbh. I never knew how much of a bad matchup Ike was with Mario until he FLUDD me and I was a stocks down. All my Ike matches flashed before my eyes. After that, I just had to time the Aether just right so FLUDD couldn't touch Ike but Ike could still reach the edge.

[Ragnell]

What is that Roy doing? He countered and KO'ed and I'm like. "He's getting somewhere." Apparently not.

As we all know. Ike Vs. Mario is pretty scary. A pretty hard counter tbh. I never knew how much of a bad matchup Ike was with Mario until he FLUDD me and I was a stocks down. All my Ike matches flashed before my eyes. After that, I just had to time the Aether just right so FLUDD couldn't touch Ike but Ike could still reach the edge.

I'm little hesitant to say Mario is a hard counter for Ike, but it's definitely a rough matchup. Recently, I spent a long online session practicing against an excellent Mario (he won all ~25 matches, but I started doing much better against him by the end). Fighting Mario at the very least requires Ike to play very precisely. Mario's cape and FLUDD are brutal to Ike's predictable recovery and can turn even a tiny throw or hit into a KO. But at least in my experience, so long as you are high enough above the stage or far enough below the stage you can usually still recover (if you Aether perfectly to the ledge or mix up QD'ing high vs. low). Thankfully, Mario can be Eruption-guarded during his recovery as well, so long as there are no walls for him to walljump off for mix-ups, and you predict any cape stalls he uses. Still, Mario's ability to limit Ike's already limited recovery is scary. Mario is also a terror if he gets in and starts combo-ing Ike, while Mario himself can escape many of Ike's most powerful combos. And that's without even mentioning Mario's fireball pressure and cape shenanigans. I'm no competitive expert, but I feel Ike vs. Mario is a rough matchup for Ike, at least on the semi-competitive level.

[Elieson]

Yeah, I should do better, I think (that Ike didn't utilize any grabs or combos that I use). But I don't know if I'd do THAT much better...

But yeah, let's play sometime anyway! Finally. XD I'll have time tomorrow after work. I get home at roughly 12:30 PM, then I need lunch. EST, btw. Oh, but I understand if you want to focus on this series too!

Jedi's one of those people who didn't really start off as an Ike main, but became one by accident I think. I'm more afraid of people who don't main who they originally wanted to main, and Jedi's pretty skilled. In our Broken 3DS vs Broken 3DS match, he always gave me a run for my money

---

IMO Mario has safe game against ike because he can approach pretty safely from underneath, as Ike's falling air options are pretty limited (dair is so narrow and eruption doesn't have much of an under hitbox). His fireball walls are pretty good at pressure application and recovery punishment was already mentioned.

[euklyd]

Jedi's one of those people who didn't really start off as an Ike main, but became one by accident I think. I'm more afraid of people who don't main who they originally wanted to main, and Jedi's pretty skilled. In our Broken 3DS vs Broken 3DS match, he always gave me a run for my money

---

IMO Mario has safe game against ike because he can approach pretty safely from underneath, as Ike's falling air options are pretty limited (dair is so narrow and eruption doesn't have much of an under hitbox). His fireball walls are pretty good at pressure application and recovery punishment was already mentioned.

afaik Jedi played Ike since 3DS launch, just not as a #1 main

also ike's nair hits under him pretty well lol

[Elieson]

oh wow for w/e reason I was only thinking of Fair and Bair, i completely forgot about Nair

also Jedi was always a Sonic and Marth main from what I recall, and picked up Ike later as his current Main (even over Sonic)

[euklyd]

my skype shat all over itself (and the rest of my computer too, for that matter), so I can't pull logs, but I'm 99% sure jedi's said he's played ike since launch (just not as a solo main)

PAGING JEDI

[Jedi]

afaik Jedi played Ike since 3DS launch, just not as a #1 main

also ike's nair hits under him pretty well lol

I have been playing Ike since 3DS launch.

oh wow for w/e reason I was only thinking of Fair and Bair, i completely forgot about Nair

also Jedi was always a Sonic and Marth main from what I recall, and picked up Ike later as his current Main (even over Sonic)

I didn't know who my main even was before Blackwolf, I was so indecisive, if you asked me mains when 3DS and Wii U launched I'd have given you about 15 characters.

Marth was who I wanted to focus on, but he is alot less fun in this game then in any other smash as I quickly discovered. DK write up coming up soon, good match with a very anticlimactic ending.

[euklyd]

you even rekt Robotnik's Yoshi WARIO with your Ike, didn't you?

EDIT I MEANT WARIO

Edited August 5, 2015 by Euklyd