Jedis Concepts Jedi's Smash 4 Character analysis Project (Currently Bowser)

[Jedi]

The beam sword is only possible in Melee and Brawl, right?

Am I the only one who called the stitch face "The Killer Veggie"?

I'm actually not sure on that, as I've been unlucky with plucking anything in this game.

[Kiseki]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Peach_(SSB4)

Vegetable takes slightly longer to be plucked and can no longer spawn Beam Swords

Sadly, no more Beam Swords for Peach.

Peace in RIP Beam Sword 2k14.

But at least the other stuff has a higher pull chance as compensation.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Kiseki

[Jedi]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Peach_(SSB4)

Sadly, no more Beam Swords for Peach.

Peace in RIP Beam Sword 2k14.

But at least the other stuff has a higher pull chance as compensation.

Thanks for pulling that up, I did research on the Veggies but forgot to look at the beam sword thingy lol. Silly me.

[euklyd]

nice writeup, and nice video!

his downB is a reflector and can be used at close range for damage, (according to the patch it can semi spike now..? I dno if thats true)

can confirm

technically it could always semi-spike, it just got a knockback buff this patch so now it's actually useful...but only in very niche scenarios, since most of the time a nair would be better

so if you're far enough offstage that a nair would be suicidal, shinespike is a reasonable choice, since it stops all momentum (or close enough)

also while you said "peach can edgeguard fox well" you didn't really put that into practice...

also fox has a very nice dash attack and can combo it into multiple things (utilt, uair, iirc) afaik

Edited August 10, 2015 by Euklyd

[Jedi]

also while you said "peach can edgeguard fox well" you didn't really put that into practice...

also fox has a very nice dash attack and can combo it into multiple things (utilt, uair, iirc) afaik

I mentioned the former! (I don't show it off etc)

Thank you for correcting the latter.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

I can say with confidence that I know jack shit about peach. I'd love to throw in some input but it took me until the first SF tourney to figure out how to use her Toad so I'm not one to talk.

[Jedi]

Coming in on the same day as Peach, its the King of Koopas himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgU7XU2rap0

Jedi's Thoughts

Bowser: Man Bowser sure has gotten some nice improvements hasn't he? Always had dedicated mains in Melee and Brawl though and I respect those who did (Shoutout to Esam vs M2K Brawl the other day that was pretty hype).

Bowser has a trait called Tough Guy, where at low % he shrugs off weaker attacks with Super Armor, which helps him at the beginning of fights as he suffers from trademark heavy character syndrome.

A. You're a big target

B. You're easy to juggle
C. You aren't as fast as a good part of the cast.

D. You hit like an effing truck

E (In smashes case). Your recovery tends to be lackluster.

(P.S keep this in your notes when I mention Heavy Character Syndrome again you'll be seeing it a few more times.)

Although, Bowser did get some decent upgrades to his speed which can lead to some surprises, he still falls mostly under these weaknesses. Although he now has some solid options at long last, his aerials for starters are all very solid with the exception of dair, which makes him plummet like a rock and is quite unsafe in nearly every situation you can possibly imagine.

His nair is a very acrobatic spin that if the opponent is inside Bowsers hitbox they will eat quite a bit of damage, sadly its reach isn't the best, but it can still have uses, bair is amazing, its a backwards drop kick that KO's SOOOOO early and feels SOOOOO good to land. Fair is a nice claw swipe that feels similar to Marth's fair except without a tipper. Uair is a headbutt very similar to DK's uair, and it has pretty much the same utility.

His ground game is fairly decent as well, his jab hits quick enough and gets opponents away and deals some nice damage, his ftilt is a nice ranged punch, his utilt sweeps above him and can somewhat combo, his dtilt is a nice poking move that also does good damage. His fsmash is a super drop kick, it hits just as well as his bair if not better, and its not all that slow, considering other characters in his weight class. his dsmash is a good spinning spike shell attack with good power and is a good out of shield/dodge action to make someones day worse.

Usmash is a upward jump with his shell, does ok damage but is probably his worst smash attack overall, his Specials are, Fire Breath which is a decent spacing and damage tool, but the flames die down in range and power the longer you use it, side B is the Koopa Klaw, which grabs your foe and body slams them and this is one of the scariest things with Bowser, because if he gets a stock lead on you. He has this as an option if he so wishes to suicide with you to take a swift stock, keep your distance if you find yourself down a stock vs Bowser.

Down B is his infamous Bowser Bomb, which drops him into a ground pound, can be a good sneak attack and it can catch the ledge if you're good with your placement its also REALLY powerful on shields, Up B is the Koopa Fortress, which spins him (mostly horizontal) back to the stage, It's also an ok attack, and can be used on the ground like his dsmash (I suppose that may be a small mind game of sort). Pretty predictable offstage though.

Bowsers throws are all decent damage dealing throws, although he doesn't really have many follow ups on them, Bowser also has an ok lunging dash attack that can throw people off guard.

Bowser does have an extremely hard time landing on the ground however and people will keep him in the air for days.

Vs Jigglypuff

Jigglypuff is a very aerial based fighter, shes incredibly light and easy to KO (The absolute lightest character in the game FYI.) she even has a disadvantage of if her shield breaks she gets insta ko'ed, (Because Balloon Pokemon get it..?)

Jigglypuff has really quick aerials that can dominate pretty well and chain off each other, and with her 7 jumps she can carry an unfortunate victim off the edge and into the blast zone if they don't react correctly. Fair is a flying kick which chains into itself, Nair is like Mario's (a sex Kick would be the proper term for this move which was coined in Melee so blame them. Another note for later characters.) Also to note her aerial speed allows her some good weaving around, being safeish on shields.

Uair is a hand wave of doom, dair is like Fox and Kirbys, and then we have it.. The bair, Jigglypuff has a godly bair, its quick, its powerful and it can hit multiple times at lower %'s in somewhat quick succession, Jigglypuff is at her best in the air, her aerial speed is much greater then her ground speed. Matter of fact she is one of the slowest runners in the game.

On the ground she has somewhat punishing smashes for her weight class, Fsmash is a Kick not unlike Kirby's, Dsmash is a weird splits kick which sends you awkwardly sliding across the ground and if Jigglypuff hits you offstage with it, you're sent somewhat at a downward angle. Usmash is a headbutt but it lacks the good properties of Mario's, Luigi's and Game & Watches. Her jab is pitifully short range, her tilts are nothing to write home about, and her reach, good lord her reach, to be a Jigglypuff player you need to realize you are going to be out-ranged 80% of the time,

Her specials include her neutral B which is roll out, you can charge it for more rolling action, if you go off stage with it, you'll likely die, Up B is Sing, which puts an opponent to sleep, although if they are at low % breaking out is really easy. Side B is pound and it can work as more jumps for Jigglypuff in the air and can hit decently well with having good speed, her proper actual Jab IMO also has really good shield damage which can lead into a Rest, speaking of which down B is the infamous Rest. It has a small hitbox, but it packs a huge punch if you can pull it off, read a foe and land this? You might have yourself a stock, Jigglypuff is pretty read reliant and this was even true in Melee. Rest works like a charm vs larger foes too.

Her dash attack is pretty punishable as well, Jigglypuffs throws are pretty weird, including a solid distance Uthrow, a very weird dthrow, and only meh f and bthrows, Jigglypuff is not really a grappler.

shes close and personal and thats about all there is to her in terms of how she needs to fight, she has decent approach options, but in the long run, if you can space her out, shes gonna be hurting. Her lightness ain't doing any favors either, but her offstage fighting is really good.

Bowser vs Jigglypuff

So we have the heaviest character in the game vs the lightest character in the game.

Bowser obviously has the power advantage and is even safer on shield in this particular fight, (Add to the fact that Jigglypuff can't afford to ever shield much in a game that relies on at least some shielding game), but with his large size comes Jigglypuffs aerial combo game which after his Tough Guy trait gets removed, he starts feeling it, Jigglypuff is much faster then Bowser in some instances, well in the air anyways. Jigglypuff doesn't want to be on the ground vs Bowser much at all, Bowser can space Jigglypuff out pretty well with his Fire Breath and good reach.

Although Bowser is pretty punishable so if you aren't careful due to his large size you are going to eat a rest from Jigglypuff, also the battle of extremes is hilarious here, Bowser can KO Jigglypuff at such an early % its amazing, but if Jigglypuff gets Bowser off stage, Bowser is the one who is likely not going to survive the conflict unless he REALLY knows what he's doing. Have fun getting him off stage in the first place without some good effort though.

Bowser also can instantly break a Jigglypuff's shield and KO her if she sleeps on a Down B.

Jigglypuff needs to really get into Bowsers grill and disrupt him and go from there.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

I thought Shulk!Kirby (Jump) was the lightest in the game

IMO Bowser's Fair is more like mewtwo's than Marth's.

How do you feel the match went? you handled him pretty naturally despite you maining more middleweights

[Jedi]

I thought Shulk!Kirby (Jump) was the lightest in the game

IMO Bowser's Fair is more like mewtwo's than Marth's.

How do you feel the match went? you handled him pretty naturally despite you maining more middleweights

Without modifications of Shulk's Monado I should say.

I get more of a Marth feel from it, Mewtwo's is more punishing imo. Also has a weirder time frame, more of a quick swipe.

It started bad, but once I realized how the Jiggly played I was able to get my game going, Bowser is pretty fun in this game. He doesn't feel like your archetypal heavy character anymore, if that makes any sense. He has weight to his movements and stuff but it doesn't feel like it hampers him as much anymore.

[Elieson]

his Dash-A comes out so quickly, like Mewtwo's though. Marth's covers such a vertical area, where Mewtwo's (and Bowser's) cover like, from their feet to their abdomen, in a quick swipe.

Does Bowser's grab game work too well? I noticed you didn't grab like, at all, opting for a more CHARGE approach. I think that wouldn't have worked on anybody who actually has shield presence (and suspect you know this, but am curious of combogame)

Also you picked the worst palette

[Kiseki]

I thought Shulk!Kirby (Jump) was the lightest in the game

Don't you mean Monado Smash? It makes Shulk lighter and easier to KO, so Kirby should become lighter as well.

Bowser Bomb breaks shields almost as instantly as Ganon's U-Tilt. You could instantly follow up with a fully charged F-Smash to end stocks quickly.

Jigglypuff's Pound also does huge shield damage, so breaking a shield with it is pretty much a guaranteed Rest in most situations.

[Jedi]

his Dash-A comes out so quickly, like Mewtwo's though. Marth's covers such a vertical area, where Mewtwo's (and Bowser's) cover like, from their feet to their abdomen, in a quick swipe.

Does Bowser's grab game work too well? I noticed you didn't grab like, at all, opting for a more CHARGE approach. I think that wouldn't have worked on anybody who actually has shield presence (and suspect you know this, but am curious of combogame)

Also you picked the worst palette

Yeah.

His grabs are ones I'd call ok, I'd rather Koopa Klaw over most of them baring like an occasional uthrow or a rare dthrow.

Sorry I gotta be SSJ Bowser.

Don't you mean Monado Smash? It makes Shulk lighter and easier to KO, so Kirby should become lighter as well.

Bowser Bomb breaks shields almost as instantly as Ganon's U-Tilt. You could instantly follow up with a fully charged F-Smash to end stocks quickly.

Jigglypuff's Pound also does huge shield damage, so breaking a shield with it is pretty much a guaranteed Rest in most situations.

Thank you for those clear ups, as i'm not anywhere close to being an expert on either character ^^; I appreciate these comments. I shall make appropriate edits.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

I would've mentioned that Bowser's upb is an amazing OoS option, and also that itg Jiggs' biggest flaw is that she can't do shit to shields, but still a very informative writeup.

Also nice bowser play, dodging most of Jiggs' stuff

[Knife]

Luigi is really easy to use

[euklyd]

Luigi is really easy to use

I'm confused; what prompted this?

[Jedi]

I'm confused; what prompted this?

Probably my below average Luigi performance.

[kingddd]

Bowser's ground up+b is also a great tool to punish rollers and for defensive playing when an enemy approaches you while you're shielding. It's also much less punishing then his smash down+A in terms of recover. Not to mention the multihit is a lot more consistent.

his D-Air can also spike really well so it's great for edge guarding

Edited August 11, 2015 by kingddd

[Jedi]

Bowser's ground up+b is also a great tool to punish rollers and for defensive playing when an enemy approaches you while you're shielding. It's also much less punishing then his smash down+A in terms of recover. Not to mention the multihit is a lot more consistent.

his D-Air can also spike really well so it's great for edge guarding

Thanks, handy to know for the future.

Also doing a brief hiatus for this thread, hard to do write ups atm with college stuff being a mess and having a possible other thread obligation here soon. I promise I'll come back I have Link to Palutena all recorded and planning on more its just.. yeah stuff.

[euklyd]

you sound like me with my LP

"I have a million things all recorded all that's left is to do the write-ups"

[Jedi]

I will be continuing this series, after Cloud and the other 2 DLC characters come out.

Just making a note.