Jedis Concepts Jedi's Smash 4 Character analysis Project (Currently Bowser)

[Jedi]

you even rekt Robotnik's Yoshi with your Ike, didn't you?

It was his Wario. Yoshi will forever be my worst matchup.

Edit: Oh you edited. Whoops

Moving on we have Donkey Kong. Born the same time as Mario, he's the leader of the bunch, you know him well..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0j6uqRAhBo

Well that was anticlimactic.

Jedi's Thoughts

Donkey Kong: A very interesting character, he's a power character, but is fast, is big and heavy, but can cover distance really well. Note i'm not super experienced with him so this may not be super accurate.

Donkey Kong has quite a few tricks up his sleeve, his tilts and jabs are all really fast and combo fairly well, his first jab even pulls the opponent towards him which allows for some grab shenanigans, which sadly I didn't get to use much of here, his throws are all pretty solid and fthrow puts the foe on your back which you have even more throw options, uthrow CAN lead into some attacks, but isn't super safe. DK's aerials are a mixture of powerful and fast, his bair is solid for spacing, his fair is a powerful meteor with a large hitbox but is very slow, his uair is pretty safe, his nair is ok. His dair is meh, but has uses. His dtilt can trip people which is quite handy as it can hit people twice usually.

His Specials are quite interesting, Giant Punch can be charged and used as a huge punch obviously, don't use it in midair as it renders DK helpless, Dong Copter as people call the upB, is pretty good at being a ground based attack as well and is a decent horizontal recovery which can hit the opponent alot if they don't expect it, DownB, his slap which breaks shields really good also has some aerial uses as it becomes yet another meteor smash for DK, which gives him a grand total of 3 meteor smash moves, SideB is pretty meh, if it hits they are grounded, but it lacks the properties of say. Charizards Rock Smash to really make it worth using.

Vs Palutena: Palutena is a very bizarre character, her very nature punishes spotdodges as her attacks tend to be of the multi hitting variety, her jab is excellent, her aerials are pretty scary (especially uair), she can juggle heavier characters pretty easily with stuff like utilt and nair, she has a decent meteor smash in her pocket too, although without customs she isn't near as effective, her default specials are interesting.

Autoreticle, basically forces someone to move lest they block which allows Palutena to approach, or they roll (gets them hit), Reflect, which not only works as a reflect

but also as a small barrier which pushes people away and can be used in mind games, counter which is self explanatory, and warp which is like Zelda's Farores slightly except it doesn't do damage and is faster and less predictable.

In skilled hands, Palutena can be a daunting foe, her Usmash has the longest range in the game, although her fsmash oddly if it misses has a windbox, her dsmash is also pretty lengty, her grabs tend to lead into her aerials really well too. Her moves that utilize her shield also make attacks bounce off, except I believe bair doesn't. Someone who uses Palutena often like Doofina would probably know though.

Her downsides, she isn't all that fast. For her weight class and height she is pretty easy to knock away, her attacks leave her open if she misses one of her multi hitting attacks, so she's susceptible to punishment. Her approach is also a tad awkward, without having her customs such as super speed.

DK vs Palutena: This is my first experience with the matchup to be quite honest.

Palutena has a bit of an advantage, due to the fact she can juggle the Kong with her previously mentioned multi hitting moves, although DK can space her out with his long limbs, and get some good stuff going if he can keep her in smacking distance, although in the air. It's Palutena's zone, chasing her off stage is likely a bad idea unless you get a read, nair and bair are probably DK's safest bet in the air against her, Autoreticle forces DK to approach to an extent, although this is yet another spacing game with these two characters. Palutena can also push DK's advances away with a well timed reflect, or punish too greedy of a Kong with her counter attack.

Palutena is a bit unsafe on shield at close range though so DK can punish her with a wide array of moves at that point including his very good grab, honestly I'm not 100% sure who has the edge here.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

Wow, you really led the match after that first 20 seconds of early punishment. She had some good air combos but you shrugged them off pretty well. DKs super reachy Ftilt and Dtilt lead the show for you though, and that DownB spike was glorious.

You really need to watch out for Tuna reflects on your Dongcopter recovery, you're lucky he didn't nail you with one :)

[Jedi]

Wow, you really led the match after that first 20 seconds of early punishment. She had some good air combos but you shrugged them off pretty well. DKs super reachy Ftilt and Dtilt lead the show for you though, and that DownB spike was glorious.

You really need to watch out for Tuna reflects on your Dongcopter recovery, you're lucky he didn't nail you with one :)

I think she could have punished me much harder, but yeah Ftilt and Dtilt are so good, utilt as well.

Also on the DownB spike, I just had a feeling she'd try to come up for a quick fair, which was a decent idea, but I was waiting that time. Also YEAH I totally forgot that too, reflect could have KO'd me sooner then that mistimed stepdodge (part of the reason its bad vs Tuna lol).

[Elieson]

You planned for the offstage chase, which was pretty cool. Your distance guaging on Dongcopter was spot-on.

His Tuna was good but his gimpgame was subpar.

[Anacybele]

..."Tuna"? Really? xP

So, Jedi, you available to play with me yet? I'd like to go get something to eat right quick first, but I'll be around after.

[Jedi]

..."Tuna"? Really? xP

So, Jedi, you available to play with me yet? I'd like to go get something to eat right quick first, but I'll be around after.

Yes Tuna! Which is also the shipping name for Tidus in Yuna in FFX!

Also I may, I may not, it all depends on calls, i'm waiting for a call to be hired at a job currently, I'll keep you informed if I can do some matches.

Also those of you wondering who is next in this showcase of sorts... Here be the next 10 fighters

[Tsunami922]

..."Tuna"? Really? xP

Yes Tuna!

There's also Pail-of-Tuna. If we want to go into more odd nicknames for a goddess.

[Elieson]

She's been Pale Tuna for as long as I can remember!

[Anacybele]

I didn't know any of these nicknames were a thing... Wow. xP

Yes Tuna! Which is also the shipping name for Tidus in Yuna in FFX!

Also I may, I may not, it all depends on calls, i'm waiting for a call to be hired at a job currently, I'll keep you informed if I can do some matches.

Also those of you wondering who is next in this showcase of sorts... Here be the next 10 fighters

Alrighty, I'll be waiting. :)

Yay, Luigi's next! Right?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jedi]

I didn't know any of these nicknames were a thing... Wow. xP

Alrighty, I'll be waiting. :)

Yay, Luigi's next! Right?

Sorry lots of crap came up ;/ I'll try to play with you here soon.

Also yes Luigi is next, working on that replay now, wondering if I'll get an odd matchup again.

[Anacybele]

Sorry, I had to go to bed when you posted that... Work today. I'm off tomorrow though.

And yay. :D

[Jedi]

Debuting on July 14 1983, it's Luigi! The timid, yet brave younger brother of Mario!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T54Zjq-I190

Jedi's Thoughts

Luigi: Where do I even begin? Luigi is quite possibly one of the best fighters in Smash 4, he has tons of combos, his moves are pretty much lagless like Mario's are, he has so many different follow ups from just his Dthrow, such as DownB. Fair, Fair, etc. I really don't do him the justice he deserves in this fight.

Starting with his methods, Luigi is very slippery, such as in Mario Bros The Lost Levels, this gives him quite possibly one of the greatest edges in this game, he by his very nature is a combo escaper, you try to follow up on Luigi on the ground? You're gonna miss or eat something in return, he is also quite floaty in the air, and his aerials all are fast, do decent damage and can chain off each other, some such as Bair can KO at higher%'s. Luigi is a very scary opponent for characters who get out prioritized by his moves, Luigi forces even characters such as Sonic to fight by his terms because of how good his priority is.

Much like Mario, if Luigi is in your face, you are going to take tons of damage, spacing him out isn't exactly easy, considering he has his fireballs to make you approach him or his quick tornado, his sliding can be hard to get the hang of, and you'll sometimes do his very poor Dash Attack, quite honestly probably his worst move and one I do on accident on a consistent basis.

Luigi has a good projectile in terms of his fireball, it goes straight, it does ok damage and it forces the opponent to go to you, unless they have the means to nullify it.

Luigi has 3 recoveries, Side B the rocket which requires to be charged, his very Vertical Up B, which can be used after side B, and if sweetspotted on a foe, (You have to basically be right in the opponents hitbox), can be a very powerful risky move, but it leaves you so open you should only do it if you know it'll hit, also his Tornado, which if you are a button mashing god, can raise him upward. Main issue with all 3 of these moves is that they are EXTREMES and very easy to block, Luigi's most difficult task is getting back to the stage itself.

Luigi's Smash attacks are all very good, and pretty fast considering their power, and something I forgot to mention with Mario and I didn't do a write up for G&W, but all 3 of these characters Usmash Headbutts make them invincible against pretty much any attack in the game when they are launched, the head doesn't quite count as a hitbox for the character and they basically power through it to hit you.

Luigi's Fsmash, which I dub the Crane Stab, is fast and KO's decently at higher %'s but has very little reach, his Dsmash is very good at hitting both sides and KOing, also since Luigi's physics are so weird, you can if you have good timing slide into a smash attack. I advise doing it with Usmash.

Luigi's weaknesses are basically being out spaced and zoned out (Despite his Fireball being amazing), Esam even proved that the oft regarded worst character in Smash 4, Samus has an edge on him simply from her pretty solid projectile game. Also his predictable recovery, which I'd say is even more so then say Ike's, leaves alot to be desired, and can be punished by a good chunk of the cast who have issues with him on stage.

Vs Diddy Kong: Hoo Hah, Diddy Kong is one tough foe to have to fight, Diddy has 2 projectiles, one being his peanut popgun, the other being his oft hated banana's which forces a trip, he just has really solid attacks, decent range, good speed, his throws tend to start combos, has a great off stage game. Any fight with a solid Diddy Kong is going to be a slugfest, you have to just match him blow for blow and never let him get a lead, Diddy has all the tools a high tier character would, as well as a surprisingly good meteor smash a solid side B to help his recovery and act as a weird grab/kick, and he can wall jump! His smashes are even all pretty fast with almost no endlag. He is a fundamental character, he doesn't have an end all be all tactic that wins games alone after the nerfs, he depends highly on a players skill and they can wing it with his various options.

Weaknesses? Well Diddy is pretty light, so he isn't the hardest to KO, and his recovery isn't godly, its good, but its not unstoppable, his Jetpack requires a decent charge for a good distance and usually its pretty telegraphed on where it'll go, also use Diddy's own bananas against him if they are careless with them, nothing more satisfying then punishing someone with their own move. Since the nerfs he also isn't quite as good in the air as he used to be, granted he's still REALLY good there, but you don't have to worry as much about the HOO HAH koing you.

Luigi vs Diddy:

Ohh boy, we have ourselves a high tier fight here! While Luigi has an edge in this fight, its an absolute slugfest at close range, Luigi has fireballs over Diddy's Peanuts, which in the long run aren't the best projectile, Diddy also doesn't get as much off his throws as Luigi does. Luigi can also escape some of Diddy's more reliable moves due to his nature and the fact that Nair is basically Mario's but even better, he can force himself out of Diddy's hands, but if Diddy gets Luigi off stage... The favor shifts towards Diddy, as he can challenge and destroy an offstage Luigi, especially one that is trying to return to the stage because Luigi has very straight recoveries one straight up and one straight forward, So Luigi needs to keep the fight towards the middle of the stage at all possible, and Diddy needs to work Luigi towards the edges.

Diddy also has the banana, which my opponent didn't utilize much at all. A bit strange considering it helps Diddy control the stage, which would give Luigi a bit more of an issue. Which could lead to some wicked punishes as well.

Luigi does have more defensive options because of his really good fireballs which can zone out Diddy, also his shield doesn't prevent him from sliding, but I don't recall how much it caused him to slide.

Overall I think I need a little more experience with both before giving more of an evaluation.

Special thanks to PKLucas for helping me with parts of the write up, honestly could have done much better then I.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Damn, you fought a damn good Diddy there. He almost got you!

But Luigi's number 1! :D

And actually, Diddy's banana peels are lolbad vs Luigi. Remember why people always said that Luigi was the only good counter to Diddy in Brawl? That was because of Diddy's banana peel combos and that was because Luigi was too slippery to fall into them. Like you said yourself, Luigi's a combo escape artist because of his bad traction. :P

Here's some more tips I can give you too, as a Luigi mainer: Use Green Missile more on the stage. Not like spam it or anything, but when you know you can combo into it, DO EET. You never know when that thing will come out as a "misfire" and when it does, it packs a wallop of a hit. And speaking of Luigi's power moves, Fire Jump Punch is your best friend for an early KO, especially if you've got a big target against you, like DK or Bowser. It's tough to land and Luigi has to be like right in the player's face to pull it off, but the result is usually sweet. Fire Jump Punch is one of the strongest moves in the game.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Anacybele

[Elieson]

I thought that Luigi vs Bananas was a "good" matchup because where you normally fall flat on your tushie, Luigi's traction keeps him moving a bit, meaning he can fall but continue moving thanks to Momentum. Not sure though, I can't get used to the green machine, his slippery play (while something I can control on the battlefield decently when fighting) isn't something I'm comfortable running myself.

*Comments on the match later, I'm currently on hold and can't really dedicate myself to the watch fullforce atm*

[euklyd]

And actually, Diddy's banana peels are lolbad vs Luigi. Remember why people always said that Luigi was the only good counter to Diddy in Brawl? That was because of Diddy's banana peel combos and that was because Luigi was too slippery to fall into them. Like you said yourself, Luigi's a combo escape artist because of his bad traction. :P

diddy has a favorable matchup vs luigi in brawl lol

meta, snake, and falco are the ones with an advantageous matchup vs diddy

[Jedi]

Here's some more tips I can give you too, as a Luigi mainer: Use Green Missile more on the stage. Not like spam it or anything, but when you know you can combo into it, DO EET. You never know when that thing will come out as a "misfire" and when it does, it packs a wallop of a hit. And speaking of Luigi's power moves, Fire Jump Punch is your best friend for an early KO, especially if you've got a big target against you, like DK or Bowser. It's tough to land and Luigi has to be like right in the player's face to pull it off, but the result is usually sweet. Fire Jump Punch is one of the strongest moves in the game.

I'm not a big fan of Green Missile to be honest, it feels like it'd be easily punished, but maybe I'm not giving it enough credit. The Misfires are nice yeah, but I'm not sure if I want to bank on it :P.

Fire Jump Punch is also really risky, you have to know you'll land it, I didn't even have the chance to breathe let alone try a styling Fire Jump Punch. Bigger targets its easier yeah.

I thought that Luigi vs Bananas was a "good" matchup because where you normally fall flat on your tushie, Luigi's traction keeps him moving a bit, meaning he can fall but continue moving thanks to Momentum. Not sure though, I can't get used to the green machine, his slippery play (while something I can control on the battlefield decently when fighting) isn't something I'm comfortable running myself.

*Comments on the match later, I'm currently on hold and can't really dedicate myself to the watch fullforce atm*

Banana's still trip, even if Luigi slides he still has to get up which allows Diddy a small tech chase moment.

diddy has a favorable matchup vs luigi in brawl lol

meta, snake, and falco are the ones with an advantageous matchup vs diddy

I thought Pikachu had a favorable one with him too. Been awhile since i've done my brawl MU research though.

Next up is Little Mac, that should be coming in a bit tonight.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, it takes practice to use Fire Jump Punch well. I still am not an expert with it myself even though I've been able to land it for KOs once in awhile.

Green Missile, yeah, it IS risky, you just have to know exactly when to use it, but I've been able to combo into it.

Now, my only big problem with playing Luigi is that I suck at getting Luigi Cyclone's vertical height unless I start it from right on the stage and not in the air for some reason. >.>

Also, I could've sworn that people on Smashboards said that Luigi was Diddy's only bad matchup in Brawl.

And Jedi, when can we plaaay...

Edited August 7, 2015 by Anacybele

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Didn't think you utilized Luigi's grab combo's enough. When I thought you were going to DThrow and Air combo, you BThrowed. Even the Dthrow to DownB surprised me. Cause Luigi is good at bringing that % up even when they're 70% and just ending with a surprise smash or BThrow. Of DownB used when getting beck to the floor cause it's hard to read and completely loony and fast. Though NAir is great, but it can definitely get blocked and the DownB is a great optional use if you're scared. Luigi's moves are also supposed to flow together. DThrow > UAir > B. Both very nice KO's and stopped Diddy getting a massive gap between stocks on you.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Great Geargia Gateway

[Jedi]

Didn't think you utilized Luigi's grab combo's enough. When I thought you were going to DThrow and Air combo, you BThrowed. Even the Dthrow to DownB surprised me. Cause Luigi is good at bringing that % up even when they're 70% and just ending with a surprise smash or BThrow. Of DownB used when getting beck to the floor cause it's hard to read and completely loony and fast. Though NAir is great, but it can definitely get blocked and the DownB is a great optional use if you're scared. Luigi's moves are also supposed to flow together. DThrow > UAir > B. Both very nice KO's and Diddy get a massive gap between stocks on you.

Yeah, I'm no Luigi player by any means, I actually haven't used him in a serious environment since 64 to be honest. He's always been a more casual character for me, thanks for the critique though, it helps me improve.

And Jedi, when can we plaaay...

I thought you said tomorrow! Because work and such ^^;

[Anacybele]

Nooo, you misunderstood. I said I couldn't play last night because I had to go to bed for work in the morning. I'm home and available now. lol When I mentioned that I was off tomorrow, I meant that I could be up later tonight because I won't have to get up early in the morning. :P

And you're not really a Luigi player, Jedi? You sure could've fooled me! You might have used him better than I can and I've mained him since Melee! (didn't ever play Smash 64)

Edited August 7, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jedi]

Nooo, you misunderstood. I said I couldn't play last night because I had to go to bed for work in the morning. I'm home and available now. lol When I mentioned that I was off tomorrow, I meant that I could be up later tonight because I won't have to get up early in the morning. :P

And you're not really a Luigi player, Jedi? You sure could've fooled me! You might have used him better than I can and I've mained him since Melee! (didn't ever play Smash 64)

Haha, ok. If you don't mind me doing the Little Mac write up/upload first we could do a few matches after that.

Well thanks, he has just always felt kinda loose to me, but then again it's probably how he's meant to feel, I tend to play him like he's a slippery Mario and somehow I get away with it most of the time.

[euklyd]

I thought Pikachu had a favorable one with him too. Been awhile since i've done my brawl MU research though.

idk I just checked http://www.ssbwiki.com/Character_matchup_(SSBB)

pika has -1 vs diddy

[Anacybele]

Alright, that works for me! :)

Yeah, Luigi might be meant to feel like that, I guess you were just able to pick him up naturally after playing Mario a lot. I never used Mario much at all, so my case would be a little different. :P

[Jedi]

Coming in on February 1984, its the warrior from the Bronx. Little Mac! "Show em what you got Mac baby!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-SV-ehcfk

Jedi's Thoughts

Little Mac: Mac, is a man of extremes. He has excellent ground attacks, ground mobility, ground speed, you could say he's a well grounded fighter. Kinda like Firion is in Final Fantasy Dissidia.

Mac has very punishing attacks, and can swiftly get your % high and just knock you out. All of his smashes have frames of super armor on them, which basically allows him to eat a hit and hit you anyways, he'll take the damage sure, but he isn't going anywhere. Good Little Mac's know how their frames work and will be very careful, playing Little Mac is much like playing in his own game of Punch Out!, you gotta wait for your openings and have at it when they do. If you go fists a gogo, you'll be flailing off to your death sooner then you can say. LITTLE MAC

Also of note, his forward smash can be tilted into an uppercut, or a more downward punch.

His regular attacks are really quick, 1 maybe 3 frames, his tilts are quick and can be repeated, his jab is stupidly good. If a Mac forces someone to approach and they know their super armor frames they can just absolutely punish something as simple as an attempt to attack swiftly. Also his dtilt easily chains into a ftilt among other things, even his KO PUNCH.

His grabs are ok, nothing special, I think one or two of them can lead into a tilt or UpB, but you're more likely going to take advantage of his decently speedy pummel.

His specials are interesting, first we have Jolt Haymaker his side B, which on the ground has alot of distance and it ignores projectiles for a few frames, it leaves you prone though so if you go off stage, bye bye. This move also gets less distance in the air. His Up B is a good attack, its a super uppercut that hits quite a few times and has decent KO power, but it has less reach in midair, (see a theme here?). He has a counter which can help him move around and actually recover, whoa. Not very well though. His straight lunge, the neutral B is a charge move that can be released earlier, if fully charged it hits hard but has a stupid amount of ending lag.

Little Mac, is very bad in the air, his aerials do barely up to 4% and they have almost no knockback, there is a reason why people say his best options in the air are Air Dodge or Counter. Little Mac is incredibly easy to Ko when he's off stage as he has the worst recovery in smash history since Link's N64 recovery. Jolt Haymaker gets you semi ok distance, but you can't up B from it which hurts tremendously.

Mac does have a unique feature to him, the Super Meter which when it gets to KO! You can use Neutral B for a super powerful punch that KO's ridiculously early, and this meter is built up from both hitting and being hit. Also oddly this move has an extreme windbox so if you miss the enemy will be blown away, also can be used in midair as some funky as hell recovery if you're super high up.

Also Little Mac is worse on stages with multiple levels to them, as he has to risk jumping.

Vs Kirby: Kirby, a small floaty character, doesn't have the best mobility, but can be a dangerous threat if he closes the distance, with his punishing throws and attacks, Kirby is a bit of a force to be reckoned with.

Kirby has very solid aerial moves which allows him some bit of dominance in close aerial combat, and his fair can even get some small distance with the multi kicks, his dair hits alot and has a very light meteor effect, which can gimp some less recovery inclined characters, his uair just a solid kick, his nair is a spinning move which covers his whole body.

Kirby also has solid ground combat, with fairly swift multi hitting attacks, some very punishing smash attacks for his weight class, and some very good tilts that combo into themselves, not to mention combo into other things, including a dtilt that can trip which almost gives a perfect lead in for a fsmash. His specials are pretty out there, his neutral is his trademark copy power suck in, which when he absorbs someone he can absorb the characters neutral B, spit them out or waddle with them at high %'s near the edge this can be dangerous as a Kirby may try to sucker you into death.

His DownB turns him into a stone which can be powerful, and can be canceled out of, which I highly suggest you do more then this poor Kirby did. He also has the Final Cutter as an up B, which creates a decent projectile, but the start up isn't too worth it. And his side B the Hammer Flip which can be charged, is a VERY punishing move, but it's about as hard to hit with as Ike's or Dedede's Fsmashes in a One V One, you can move while charging it however.

Kirby has pretty solid off stage combat as well, due to his 6 or so jumps he has access to.

His weaknesses, Kirby has issues on closing gaps, as he isn't very speedy and lacks a serious projectile unless he absorbs one from his opponent. His slow air and ground speed, despite his aerial capabilities, makes Kirby have a bit of a hard time fighting say, Link/Toon Link, R.O.B, Duck Hunt or anyone with a good projectile game.

He's also one of the absolute lightest characters in the game, so he gets ko'ed very swiftly.

Little Mac vs Kirby:

In all honesty, Kirby has the edge in this particular matchup, Mac doesn't have anything in particular other then his well timed smashes that can keep Kirby away from him, Kirby just needs to get Mac off stage and the match is practically won, however Mac can be speedy and avoid Kirby trying to lure him into making a mistake or just being super good with their smash frames. Mac has to be careful on Kirby's shield too lest he get grabbed into a possible juggle situation.

Mac CAN punish Kirby for thinking, Oh its just Little Mac, or that he just dominates just because he has flight. Especially with a counter in mid-string

Kirby can pull some nasty shenanigans on Mac with his Suck Up ability, he doesn't really get much of a benefit from Mac's Straight Lunge being added as an attack, so it's probably better just to use the spit out feature or try for some off stage trolling.

There honestly isn't much to say about this particular MU, although I could edit this later after I consult with Euk and PKLucas.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

You say Kirby has the edge vs Little Mac, but ironically, you beat this one really fast. XD

So, we going to play now, Jedi? Since you said we could after you uploaded this video?