Jedis Concepts Jedi's Smash 4 Character analysis Project (Currently Bowser)

[Jedi]

Special thanks to Elie, the OP now lists the order and you can click links to the completed stuff.

Also thanks for the tips Rando, sadly I did the replay before I saw that poooost.

Hey Jedi, I'm available all day today if you want to pick up where we left off last night. :)

Busy busy today sorry I may not show lol.

Coming in next the trio who blasted their way onto the NES in April 21, 1984. Duck Hunt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWAj9ZvN4RY

Jedi's Thoughts

Duck Hunt: The perfect example of a zoning character, Duck Hunt has so many projectile options and disjointed attacks that its quite irritating to even fight him, let alone approach him.

The Can his Neutral B can be kicked onto the stage where it will then stick unless you press B more which has the NES Zapper shoot at the can propelling it in the direction you kicked it towards (It explodes after around 7 or 8 shots), unless it was flipped on its other side, the can is very strange as it can be hit by either you or your opponent and can damage both of you, careful use of the Can can space characters out really easily and quickly just from the double pressure a Duck Hunt can throw at you.

His Side B the clay pigeon, looks like your average thrown projectile until Duck Hunt activates its NES Zapper property which allows the projectile to hit multiple times, although the pigeon can be broken fairly easily by most characters. His down B is a Wild Gunman from the game of the same name, which has 1 of 4 random gunmen with different firing speeds appear, they do little damage but can be used as walls and can apply even more pressure on a foe. His up B simply has the duck carry him, it has good distance and speed and height capabilities but they have no way to defending themselves in this recovery, leaving it to be a recovery and nothing but.

Duck Hunt has some very disjointed A moves as quite a number of them use the duck rather then the dog, which keeps your safe somewhat like a sword, Duck & Dodge? Well anyways almost all of their aerials use the duck and he even has an oddly delayed meteor smash, Duck Hunt has overall average speed, and is fairly light. His Smash attacks all are disjointed multi-hitting ranged attack shots. Which can throw many opponents off, as the distance isn't indicated until the moment its right about to hit.

Distractions while Duck Hunt either camps you out or physically assaults you are his game, he'll often use projectiles to get your attention elsewhere, while Duck Hunt is good at applying pressure, he is pretty bad at fighting off pressure if someone gets through his tricks and will flail around wildly trying to control the stage again, break Duck Hunts control and you've nearly won.

Vs Zero Suit Samus:

Zero Suit Samus is a terrifying foe, she has wicked speed, range, maneuverability, and some of the more easy KO setups in the game.

ZSS has a fast and good jab, a really good flying knee dash attack, tilts that can lead into various followups, aerials that can pick up the pace for said follow ups, in particular her utilt is an excellent launcher, which can go towards her amazing uair or bair which both have fairly decent KO power. She covers the field just about as fast as Captain Falcon except she has even more approach options, her fair and nair are both really good spacing tools, as are her flexable legs. Her smashes are punishing, fsmash is a double kick with good power, her Usmash utilizes her plasma whip that hits well and can semi juggle, her dsmash is terrifying, its a short shot to the ground in front of her with the Paralyzer which sticks you in place, where she can pretty much follow up with anything she wants and destroy you.

Her grab is lengthy and can work as a tether, giving her an excellent spacing tool in midair, and yet more of a recovery to work with. Although when used on the ground her grab does have a fair bit of end lag to be punished if it misses.

Her specials include, a chargeable paralyzer shot, which can pretty much do the same as the dsmash. Length of the charge also lengthens the stun duration. Her recovery which is an upward boosting kick into a roundhouse kick, which is easily one of her scariest moves and can be done out of shield, if a ZSS hits this just right you're gonna get ko'd so dodge/block well. She also has a flip jump for a down b which has various uses, it can work as part recovery, a dodge, and an attack which has meteor smash properties, its not fun to predict.

Lastly we have her side B which is her plasma whip where she'll whip fowards for a surprisingly lengthy attack, it can hit once or multiple times depending on where the foe is on it landing. It adds to her already impressive pool of spacing weapons.

Overall Zero Suit Samus doesn't have too many weaknesses, her main ones are her tether grab being very punishable and overall ZSS isn't very safe on shielding opponents, she has to get them into her field, her game to overall dominate her foe. She is also fairly light, but not unreasonably so (Looks at Mewtwo).

Also her dair is very suicide capable, which doesn't give it much utility.

Duck Hunt vs Zero Suit Samus

The definition of area control. That's how to describe this matchup, Duck Hunt Dog has the tools to keep ZSS away, but ZSS also has the tools to get in Duck Hunts face to lay some major hurt, a careful projectile game is needed from DHD to get the W out of this, and ZSS needs to force Duck Hunt into her playing field with her very good mobility.

Whomever establishes the area control, has to keep it under wraps the entire match or it could blow up in their face. It's reliant on reads and mind games, not to mention proper spacing and use of all the moves available to both parties, Duck Hunt needs to make sure he keeps away from the paralyzers range at all times and that of the whip because it allows ZSS to get in his zone, but Duck Hunt can't just let Zero Suit stomp on his face at close range, he needs to take advantage of his disjointed attacks to present some good openings. And what ever Zero Suit does, she cannot let Duck Hunt get his projectiles get on a roll or else she'll take too much damage before she can make a good dent.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Awww, okay. :(

Ooh, you used the beagle-colored Duck Hunt Dog! Beagles are so cute. :3 Yeah, ZSS is super annoying to fight. She's just so fast and has such good range that it's so hard to do well against her. But you did good! :)

[Elieson]

You rolled a lot. Match looked good, but I can tell you're not used to Projectile spam characters. Frisbee spam forces your opponent to approach on your terms.

Super nice KOs though, they were great reads, and outliving that ZSS Dair-StageSpike was pretty cool, even if 20 seconds earlier, she robbed you of the spike KO that you should've had.

Your DownB game was pretty good though, and your Can control was fine. Remember that you can thwack your own can to zip it around with Ftilts

[Jedi]

Yeaaah, I roll way too much with projectile heavy characters. :(

Only ones I really use that often are the Links

Edited August 7, 2015 by Jedi

[Randoman]

That's an awesome match, Jedi. You're probably even better with the can than I am.

Some constructive criticism: I think you're selling Duck Hunt's up close game a bit short. With all the projectiles Duck Hunt has, it's definitely understandable that you relied on them more than his melee attacks and smashes. Though I did see some moments where you could've countered/punished with a down smash or a grab.

And though this personally may not be a tactic you'd want to do, what I sometimes do is after throwing out quite a few projectiles at the enemy, I rush in and take them on at melee range. Most people don't expect that from Duck Hunt, but he's fast enough attack and mobility wise to pull it off, plus the Duck gives him decent melee range for rushdown tactics to be somewhat hard to punish.

Overall, though, if you mix in more melee attacks with Duck Hunt and maintain the solid projectile game you had with him, you may have potential main material on your hands.

[Jedi]

That's an awesome match, Jedi. You're probably even better with the can than I am.

Some constructive criticism: I think you're selling Duck Hunt's up close game a bit short. With all the projectiles Duck Hunt has, it's definitely understandable that you relied on them more than his melee attacks and smashes. Though I did see some moments where you could've countered/punished with a down smash or a grab.

And though this personally may not be a tactic you'd want to do, what I sometimes do is after throwing out quite a few projectiles at the enemy, I rush in and take them on at melee range. Most people don't expect that from Duck Hunt, but he's fast enough attack and mobility wise to pull it off, plus the Duck gives him decent melee range for rushdown tactics to be somewhat hard to punish.

Overall, though, if you mix in more melee attacks with Duck Hunt and maintain the solid projectile game you had with him, you may have potential main material on your hands.

Yeah he does have some solid melee moves, I mentioned most of them are disjointed at least, he has like a mini sword almost with his little Duck buddy haha.

Thanks, I don't see myself potentially maining him, but I will keep it in mind for when I use him every now and again, he just isn't my style when it comes to serious matches overall, but he is fun. I even still own my NES carts of Duck Hunt and Hogans Alley.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

I don't have much to say beyond what I already told you on skype, but just so everyone else can appreciate this that first kill was SICK

[8/7/15, 2:30:09 AM] Euklyd: I think you did a good job of like

[8/7/15, 2:30:32 AM] Euklyd: showing how duck hunt basically just overwhelms and distracts the opponent with the massive volume of projectiles to deal with

[8/7/15, 2:30:38 AM] Euklyd: and then takes advantage of that to kill them

[8/7/15, 2:30:52 AM] Euklyd: esp that first KO

[8/7/15, 2:30:59 AM] Euklyd: as she was trying to dodge the can

also like, ZSS's grab also has significant start-up lag as well as cooldown, just for the record

[Jedi]

Inbound is the Robot who helped revive the game industry after the Great Video Game Crash. Coming in on July 26, 1985. It's R.O.B! Roll Out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqDm8577sE

Jedi's Thoughts

R.O.B:

ROB has very interesting properties as a character, first of all. He's heavy, but packs enough maneuverability not to be severely hampered, although his size combined with his weight can allow some awkward moments such as vs Captain Falcon. Overall a solid character.

Lets start with his basics, his tilts are all pretty swift and decently damaging, utilt can be repeated, although with its semi awkward hitbox you may whiff ftilt is a good "get off me move" for the most part, dtilt is just annoying. His throws all are pretty damn solid, he even has his very own dthrow to uair combo and man is his uair good, it hits multiple times for pretty good damage. Nair spins all around, but has a small start up time. Half of his aerials have start up uair and fair are the ones that don't, yet they remain solid moves, bair uses his rocket jets on his bottom half to burst at his opponent, which does solid damage, and can launch Robby away making it safer after the move is actually launched, his dair while also delayed is one of the more interesting meteor smashes because opponents usually don't expect such a delay so it can throw them off.

Fair can combo pretty well being able to chain into each other like some pseudo wall of pain, his throws while pretty basic can be used for some nice damage, combo potential. His B moves are part of his shine, Neutral B is a laser which you can direct, it charges as ROB fights, so you don't have to worry about charging it yourself. It's a solid projectile. The gyro, his Down B is part of his bread n butter, its a small spinning top that can be charged. Its also a reusable projectile although you want to be careful as your opponent can pick them up after they stop spinning, edit: As long as its spinning it still hurts the opponent.

Side B the rotor arm, is a small punch combo but also works as a reflector, its a highly awkward move however, Up B is like Duck Hunts where it has great distance, but it serves no purpose other then a recovery. Also Bair can literally propel ROB from one side of the stage to the other from underneath (if its Battlefield/FD) before using his Up B to get to the ledge.

His smashes are pretty solid, Fsmash is a disjointed laser shot, Usmash is a very powerful rocket jet hit, dsmash is a very painful arm spinning move,

ROB's weaknesses are that he eats combos all day long, his players have to be careful as he is a large target and heavy. He also doesn't have very many escape options, he is also pretty gimp able, his recovery is fairly predictable. ROB has to be in control or he can swiftly lose his lead, his more powerful moves tend to have awkward startup as well.

ROB is also a medium range character, he is pretty bad at close combat and lacks a-lot of safe landing options.

Vs Yoshi

Damn it all to hell I hate this MU as any character. Ahem

Yoshi simply put, is one of the most difficult characters to fight in skilled hands, He has the speed, he has super armor on his already amazing aerials, he can damage you incredibly quickly and punish you in an instant.

Yoshi's jab is nothing special by itself, but comes out swiftly enough to be decent it can chain into some of his smashes as well. His dash attack is also really quick and covers decent distance, all of Yoshi's tilts are dangerously fast, his usmash is much like Fox's its a somersault kick of death, dsmash covers both sides with his tail, fsmash is a nasty headbutt.

But lets get to the scariest part of Yoshi shall we? Almost all of his aerials have ridiculous super armor frames, much like Little Mac does on the ground (edit its mostly just his double jump now), his nair is basically Mario & Luigi's, his dair hits so many times if you are caught off guard or read into it. It can do a solid 30% if not more, his fair is a really good and fast meteor smash, his uair is a solid Ko move which can be comboed into. Bair is a 3 hit tail whip, which simply feels and looks painful and its really fast.

His grab is very lackluster but if it hits, Yoshi can set some stuff up, like the aforementioned uair, otherwise. Yoshi misses with his grab? He's eating alot of punishment much like Zero Suit Samus, and this is his main weakness, Yoshi is very unsafe on shields especially at higher %, he needs to work for his KOs if his opponents are smart it could take some out-thinking.

His specials are obnoxious, Up-B only gives him a little bit of lift. This is because of his amazing double jump which grants him super armor, but the Up-B's true purpose is to zone people out with very direct-able Eggs which can punish aerials to the utmost degree and just completely grant Yoshi control at even a distance.

Egg Lay his Neutral B is pretty meh, but can be trolly off stage if a Yoshi manages to land it. However it lacks good frame data much like his grab, down b is his ground pound which has some nice speed and power, but whiff it and you're going to get punished (edit: It can also break shields). Side B egg roll is pretty useless overall, its not very safe, its fairly slow and its very predictable.

R.O.B vs Yoshi

Yoshi is a pretty daunting foe for ROB, Yoshi has mobility options the heavier R.O.B almost cannot content with, Yoshi can also cancel out the Gyro fairly easily. R.O.B also has to contend with Yoshi's fast combo moves, which his hurtboxes do not like in the slightest, poor Robbie has to play as safe as possible, but he can't just camp. Yoshi has ways to do that too with his eggs.

Yoshi's main flaw is where ROB takes the advantage, his grab. R.O.B can shield on Yoshi a fair bit more safely however Yoshi can duck and weave through that with his amazing mobility. R.O.B has to take advantage of his Gyro and throws as often as possible vs Yoshi or else he is going to feel the hurt. Yoshi also has the daunting air domination where R.O.B usually doesn't have to worry. Off stage is scary, while Yoshi can be fairly easy to Gimp sometimes due to his weak recovery via Up B with a very good double jump. Yoshi can just absolutely smash through R.O.B's better aerials with well timed frames.

R.O.B has to put in alot of work in this matchup, but its not impossible. Also sorry due to listening to "Libera me" from hell" while doing this write up I have to say this

Do the impossible see the invisible Row Row Fight the Power.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

dude you made that matchup look pretty okay to me....

things you didn't mention: ROB's gyro has active hitboxes even just spinning on the ground for a long time, so it's basically a fuckin landmine

yoshi's downb breaks shields iirc

also apparently rob's uair actually has has 25 frames of startup lag????

Do the impossible see the invisible Row Row Fight the Power.

[spoiler=also]

edit: http://modulous.net/mod/15/Roy%20the%20Digger

Edited August 8, 2015 by Euklyd

[Shin]

If I recall, ROB can nair from some of his throws, I can't remember which ones for the life of me though. The gyro's super cray, especially with smash throws and catches. ROB's keep away game is pretty good in general, making him one of my personal least favourite characters to face.

On the plus side, his dodge is really funny!

[Jedi]

dude you made that matchup look pretty okay to me....

things you didn't mention: ROB's gyro has active hitboxes even just spinning on the ground for a long time, so it's basically a fuckin landmine

yoshi's downb breaks shields iirc

also apparently rob's uair actually has has 25 frames of startup lag????

[spoiler=also]

edit: http://modulous.net/mod/15/Roy%20the%20Digger

Edited some parts of the write up, thanks Euk

Also Roy the Digger looks amazing.

If I recall, ROB can nair from some of his throws, I can't remember which ones for the life of me though. The gyro's super cray, especially with smash throws and catches. ROB's keep away game is pretty good in general, making him one of my personal least favourite characters to face.

On the plus side, his dodge is really funny!

Hmm, I'd have to test that, I'm actually not a big fan of his nair, I do like his fair though! Almost feels like Jigglypuff lol.

His dodge not only looks funny, he makes noises.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

On the plus side, his dodge is really funny!

ok realtalk jedi you not mentioning this in your writeup is the single biggest failing in this thread so far

[Jedi]

ok realtalk jedi you not mentioning this in your writeup is the single biggest failing in this thread so far

:(.

Lol sorry, I shall remember to mention it when we get to Samus because her roll is stupid.

[euklyd]

"Jedi's Analysis of Samus: This character sucks, and moreover she does not actually have a more hilarious spot dodge than ROB"

[Elieson]

Also sadly her taunts are boring.

Didn't watch the match yet but one thing to say is that robs Nair/Bair are super punishable

You also didn't mention robs glowing headbulb as a charge beam thingy, and how it isn't 0'd if interrupted

[Jedi]

Also sadly her taunts are boring.

Didn't watch the match yet but one thing to say is that robs Nair/Bair are super punishable

You also didn't mention robs glowing headbulb as a charge beam thingy, and how it isn't 0'd if interrupted

Well I actually have never noticed, I thought you had to count, and Yoshi isn't someone I oft think of looking at my own character during fighting.

Always gotta watch the Yoshi..

[Comet]

your donkey kong write up sucks because you didn't mention his spot dodge being broken

[Anacybele]

So Jedi, got any time to Smash today? :)

[Tragonight]

I don't think you should use this thread for asking that every time...

[Jedi]

your donkey kong write up sucks because you didn't mention his spot dodge being broken

Eh, I can edit that, still can get punished by people lol.

So Jedi, got any time to Smash today? :)

Maybe, but yeah I'd rather you ask outside of here ^^; as this is more for discussing. If you don't mind that is

[Anacybele]

Well, I had asked you in that PM conversation a day or two ago, but you never replied. So I didn't know where else to go... But okay, just let me know when, exactly. :P

Edited August 8, 2015 by Anacybele

[Ice Sage]

Really good Job with this bro. nice write ups.

looking forward to falco, sonic, and definitely robin!

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Saw Jedi go for a punish side smash after a Yoshi bomb and the attack missed. I really hate that hit box squished down thing with smaller or most characters.
Hmm. So beefy.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Great Geargia Gateway

[Jedi]

Thanks Ice, although I think you could do these much better then me, as could Damian.. Or a number of other people..

Coming in on September 13th 1985 we have Princess Toadstool gracing us with her presence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKIn40FBaw4

Jedi's Thoughts

Peach: Peach is really fun to play as, very combo oriented, with various techniques that can get her ahead in the game, but she also comes in with some damning flaws as well this time.

Starting off, Peach has overall good speed and mobility, her aerial mobility being really solid as she can float after jumping, be it her first or second jump, for a fairly long amount of time, and she can pull off all her aerials in this mode as well. Holding down and holding jump will allow you to float on the ground as well. Tactical jump placement can lead to you spacing from the very air your opponent breathes. Although while in this float mode, she is fairly predictable if recovering and is restricted to very linear paths.

Her aerials include a swift arm flail with decent range for nair, a downward kick combo for a dair, a rainbow goodness uair, and a very powerful smash with her crown as an Fair. All of these are solid moves, fair does have a fair bit of lag though so be careful. Bair is a nice hit with her rear, which can ko at higher % and can follow up from throws and the like.

Her ground moves are solid as well, a nice quick hearty utilt, a dtilt which is a godly combo starter and has decent range, an ok jab, an ftilt that can combo from throws,

Her specials include, DownB a veggie that can be used for a projectile which has the various chances of being quite the difference in power. With different faces these determine the damage output.

Smile 5-13%

Circle Eyes 5-13%

Line Eyes 5-13%

Carrot/T Eyes 5-13%

Upward Curve eyes Eyes 5-13%

Wink 9-17%

Dot Eyes 15-23%

Stitch Face ("Gaddish") 33-41%

Also the random chance to plucking a Beam Sword, Mr.Saturn or a Bob-Omb.

Up B is her Parasol which can be used to dish some minor damage and float, however this is tricky to land with considering you have to pull it down to speed up, or sometimes even catch the edge, and some times you'll just float to your doom.

Her side B the Peach bomber is fast and can catch people off guard but is pretty punishable if it misses, Toad her netural B works like some kind of odd counter, it gets hit and he releases spores to hit people.

Her throws are all pretty solid although her pummel is fairly slow, her throws tend to all have follow ups or the ability to hit towards a thrown veggie. She also has really good off-stage chasing that I don't really show off here sorry.

Peach lacks really solid KO options and will often get her foe to rage%'s that will get her KO'd instead if she isn't careful.

Vs Fox:

Fox has always been a dominating force in the scene of smash brothers, (except maybe Brawl). He has good speed, he has good combo ability, his recovery is good, he has a reflector, he can KO you pretty fast. Pretty much anything you'd ask for in a high tier character.

Fox has alot of mobility, and falls fast, which allows him to be on you faster then you can say "oh what the actual hell". His jab eventhough it was nerfed, still hits decently and cancels out stuff, his tilts are quick, and can combo, his throws are really solid and use his blaster and can combo too! Uair is one of his bread and butter ko's it hits twice and is very quick and deadly.

Nair is like Mario etc, fair is a huge kick combo that deals a decent amount of damage and has nice reach, bair is a good roundhouse that does good damage and can ko. Dair is a very swift spinning kick that hits quite a lot.

His smashes are all really solid as well, fsmash is decently fast and does decent damage with good knockback, Usmash is again one of his best KO moves , dsmash is a good two way smash that does solid damage.

His specials are quite good, his blaster doesn't make you flinch but its REALLY fast and can peck at you for good damage and its also good for removing his Stale Moves of other attacks in a swift manner, his downB is a reflector and can be used at close range for damage, (according to the patch it can semi spike now..? I dno if thats true), his Illusion (side-B) is really good as a part recovery and an ok attack mind games are good with this one, Fire Fox, his Up B is a very good reaching recovery if a bit predictable.

His weaknesses are well, fast falling can be both good and bad, he can combo easier but also be combo'd easier by some characters, but Fox doesn't really have many glaring weaknesses other then a high level curve and being somewhat harder to KO with in this game (feel free to correct me).

Peach vs Fox

-Record scratch-

Wait a moment that's the wrong game!

Peach vs Fox is a fairly balanced match up, thats possibly slightly in Fox's favor, his fast falling means Peach is going to be able to combo him easier and with his more predictable recovery options, Peach can edgeguard him quite well. Floating off to KO him if need be. Peach also has to be careful off stage however, as HER predictable floating and parasol trajectories can lead her into some danger, as well as Fox having his very dangerous Uair that can catch the fairly light Peach offguard.

Fox also can rack up damage pretty swiftly if a Peach isn't careful, Fox outspeeds her and well can reflect her veggies. Both characters are fairly safe on shields, both have around the same spacing capabilities although Fox has his blaster. Peach can pretty safely combo Fox out of throws due to his fast falling nature as mentioned earlier.

Fox and Peaches combos both can be swiftly overturned by each other, going into routine close quarters slugfests. Care is needed when going up against each other, their dash attacks which I forgot to mention in either account are also both pretty decent dash attacks, nothing special. Foxes just causes some minor knockback but is fast, Peaches has some nice knockback to it and can be a get off me button.

If anyone has their input it would be nice, this wasn't exactly easy to research haha.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jedi

[Tsunami922]

Her specials include, DownB a veggie that can be used for a projectile which has the various chances of being quite the difference in power. With different faces these determine the damage output.

Smile 5-13%

Circle Eyes 5-13%

Line Eyes 5-13%

Carrot/T Eyes 5-13%

Upward Curve eyes Eyes 5-13%

Wink 9-17%

Dot Eyes 15-23%

Stitch Face ("Gaddish") 33-41%

Also the random chance to plucking a Beam Sword, Mr.Saturn or a Bob-Omb.

The beam sword is only possible in Melee and Brawl, right?

Am I the only one who called the stitch face "The Killer Veggie"?