MU modifier

[Psyruby]

Moe like they lose 17.5, after factoring in that -5 dodge penalty (assuming the math is correct).

No, I was just comparing the two situations.

1 Luck = 1 Crit Evade

1 Luck = .5 Crit Evade.

They always have the -5 Crit Evade, so that would cancel out when comparing the two situations. Other classes lose around 15% Crit Evade(assuming Luck is around 30 for the other classes), Berserker only lost 12.5%, cause they had lower Luck to begin with.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Psyruby

[PuffPuff]

So basically, with regards to LUCK and modifiers, we could look at it from a few different and opposing perspectives:

a.) Luck is even less valuable now and is thus more desirable as a flaw as it isn't giving up as much.

OR

b.) You need even more luck now in order to negate crit chances, so you might want to not lower it further with a flaw. Then you might actually stand a chance of negating crits.

It helps with lower ranked weapons as they offer crit evade. Helpful, until you get enough luck.

Of course. Knowing this, I still think -SKL is the way to go.

-Def actually for having no penalties in your Pwr and Mag pwr stats which will take -5 to Luck, Skill and Res if selecting +Speed -Def which I don't think is too bad. Do want the better caps to offense after all!

In all seriousness, he is actually less of a liability. Arthur has a 5% Luck Growth, starts at 1 Lck. So... using him in the Fighter -> Berserker class would result in 3 Luck overall anyway. This is a difference of 1.5% Crit Evade.Most characters have 15% less Crit Evade. Now yes, I know you will never use Arthur in the first place, but I do feel this needs to be pointed out.

Also, this makes Arthur damn near TERRIFYING in PvP. He'll have a 90% Crit rate on most characters who aren't paired, and even characters who specifically try to get more crit evade, will only get it down to 40% at most.

EDIT: I just realized that Berserkers and Arthur's ability give -5% to Crit Evade, which means in both cases, Arthur had 0% Crit Evade. So Arthur lost no crit evade, making him exactly the same and everyone else worse off.

Thankfully telling me to avoid him altogether. Glad that I'm never using him. He's too full of himself to think straight. -.-

Well, someone in another thread did suggest giving him all the goddess icons to try to get around that (naturally, I countered by asking how many goddess icons there are in the game). If that crit evade formula is confirmed... Then that makes no difference at all, which is what I was getting at. And of course, it makes Berserkers even more unappealing as a class than I originally thought.

Estimately 5 With the My castle stuff...6.

This is counting with no skirmishes. Zerkers getting no luck is just a gamble with the RNG of Russian roulette.

I mean... once again, if you are looking at the difference between the two, it technically makes Berserkers more appealing. They lose 12.5% Crit Evade, but everyone else loses 15% Crit Evade. Like it's just a fact, this change favors Berserkers overall. Luck is worth less overall, and therefore any unit who specialized in having more luck, invested in a stat that was worth less than it used to be.

Meanwhile, the Berserker which specialized in criticals, now crits 45%+(instead of 30%+) of the time with a Killing Axe. This is very appealing especially with Fighter having the Brave Hero branch and massive HP. As you could technically take a critical hit, survive due to your high HP, then heal it off with your own Crit that activates Sol.Yes, this is cherry picking a good situation, but it's still better than getting crit anyway and dying to low HP or no way to survive the next hit.

This is very useful. I'll have to do this with my Avatar since she is procced -Def +Speed. ...And that HP is very troublesome to get in this game above all else.

Hoping that their skill is good enough not that Axes had good Acc to begin with.

[Shadow Mir]

-Def actually for having no penalties in your Pwr and Mag pwr stats which will take -5 to Luck, Skill and Res if selecting +Speed -Def which I don't think is too bad. Do want the better caps to offense after all!

Oh hell no. Defense is too important a stat to make a flaw.

[Leif]

Oh hell no. Defense is too important a stat to make a flaw.

I honestly agree. I thought of doing a +SPD -DEF. However, with the presence of enemy dual strikes, I think Defense is too important to give up. As I said before, Luck only gives a -1 penalty to STR, LUCK and MAG. That's a minimal drawback which is easily fixed by the Sky, Illusion, and Final Yatogami.

I would take three -1 penalties rather than a -3 defense deficit. Plus, the Avatar isn't really built for magic anyway since his ultimate weapon is a sword. The -1 magic has no drawback towards his combat performance.

[Featherwick]

I honestly agree. I thought of doing a +SPD -DEF. However, with the presence of enemy dual strikes, I think Defense is too important to give up. As I said before, Luck only gives a -1 penalty to STR, LUCK and MAG. That's a minimal drawback which is easily fixed by the Sky, Illusion, and Final Yatogami.

I would take three -1 penalties rather than a -3 defense deficit. Plus, the Avatar isn't really built for magic anyway since his ultimate weapon is a sword. The -1 magic has no drawback towards his combat performance.

But with a strength, hp, or skill asset you only lose 5% growth, which is on average 2 points lost when going to 20/20, 3 counting the one from the lower base stat. 3 points is possibly going to save you from being two shot, but its really not that much of a loss. Besides you could always feed yourself dracoshields and then you'll be equal with the average.

[Psyruby]

I personally will go +Speed, -Luck like in Awakening. While they did do a good job of making -Luck feel dangerous to take, overall it isn't that big of an issue to take +Speed, -Luck. You still wind up with a 40% Luck growth as a Dark Prince/ss.

As noted, if someone wanted to take the safe route, then +HP, -Def exist(-5 Luck, -5 Def, +15 HP for growths, and stat caps end up being +1 Str, Mag, Luck, Res, -1 Def).

[Leif]

But with a strength, hp, or skill asset you only lose 5% growth, which is on average 2 points lost when going to 20/20, 3 counting the one from the lower base stat. 3 points is possibly going to save you from being two shot, but its really not that much of a loss. Besides you could always feed yourself dracoshields and then you'll be equal with the average.

Yes, but I think having a +4 speed cap is a great addition to a melee unit allowing him the possibility to double attack units he may not normally be able to.

[Nobody]

Honestly, +SPD -MAG seems like the best asset for a physical atavar right now IMO.

[GoXDS]

Honestly, +SPD -MAG seems like the best asset for a physical atavar right now IMO.

but only +3 Spd vs +4 )=

[Eriotto]

but only +3 Spd vs +4 )=

I would rather have +3 speed than - defense, speed, str, luck lel

[Featherwick]

Yes, but I think having a +4 speed cap is a great addition to a melee unit allowing him the possibility to double attack units he may not normally be able to.

Caps aren't relevant however for the base game. If we're talking about optimizing for like PVP or something than +spd/-def easily win since defense is completely useless in a PVP situation. +4 speed means you can double more units, and it allows you to make a +11 speed Kanna to double every unit, sans the +7 Midorikos or the +11 Kannas. Defense, resistance, and luck are all useless end game stats. Since, for PVP at least, if you get hit you're dead.

Honestly Defense is probably the best flaw in this game. Defense gives the lowest negative growth modifier with -5 to luck and resistance and only -10 to defense. And it is only -1 defense from your base stats. One Dracoshield will cover your defense completely and end up giving you the same defense you would have otherwise gotten if you had a neutral defense nature.

[astrophys]

Defense Flaw:

-5% Luck Growth, -10% Defense Growth, -5% Resistance Growth [these are only relevant before maxing]

-1 Starting/Base Defense [these are only relevant while your stats are still growing, making them less than they'd otherwise be]

-1 Luck Cap, -3 Defense Cap, -1 Resistance Cap [these are only relevant upon maxing]

Defense Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, on average, compared to have Defense not affected by your asset or flaw:

-4.8 DEF (-1 from lower starting value, -3.8 from 38 levels at 10% lost growth)

Luck Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions:

-1.9 Luck

Resistance Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions.

-1.9 Resistance.

So by 20/20, you'd need TWO Dracoshields (not one) to offset MOST of your DEF flaw's growth penalties… and then you'd still be -0.8 DEF in the hole (basically, the Dracoshields would make up for your lost growths by not for your 1 point lower base). A third Dracoshield would finally put you ahead of the expected values that you'd have had if you didn't have a DEF flaw (+6 DEF - 4.8 = +1.2 DEF).

Obviously, these are based on average values: actual results in gameplay may vary.

I still think that -DEF could be interesting if you were willing to make a Dracoshield investment into your Avatar (which might be more justifiable for other units, seeing that they're your Lord unit). That way, you hurt none of their offenses at all (-LCK hurts both MAG and STR, both in growth and caps; -HP hurts both STR/MAG in caps; -STR and -MAG are obvious; -SKL hurts STR; -SPD is ill-advised unless abusing Defensive Formation, -RES hurts MAG). Even in the cases where you don't want to use MAG, you still probably wouldn't want to take a -MAG or -RES flaw as that hurts SPD (-5% growth, leading to -1.9 SPD on average by 20/20, -1 SPD when capped)

Edited August 26, 2015 by astrophys

[Shadow Mir]

-SKL… that's a 20% penalty to SKL growth (and -2 to starting values), so that's a -9.6 skill by the time of reaching 20/20….

So that's basically -14.4 hit, -4.8 crit, -9.6% (subtractive) to most skill activation rates (in practice, you'd only have skills in the 20s or 30s otherwise, so you're going to the 10s or 20s instead), -14.4 to Breaking Sky/Vengeance activation, and -7.2 to Dragon's Fang.

This is fine if you develop a build that doesn't depend on procs (who knows; you could even do something like +MAG/-SKL magic weapon abuse, as the inability to abuse skill doesn't matter as much if you have trouble reliably activating them in the first place). But people who like any form of procs (offensive, or even the defensive Aegis/Pavise) would probably stray away from it.

You also get -1.9 STR and -1.9 DEF.

The hit rate penalty could be pretty severe… you'd likely want Raven Strike, Flamboyant, Bind, or some other accuracy boosting skill to make up for it.

Are there any such skills that don't wind up either being player phase dependent (Raven Strike), also helping the enemy out (Flamboyant), or needing to be next to an enemy (Bind)? I mean, out of these, Bind might be the most useful, but still...

Edited August 26, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[astrophys]

As for hit rate skills:

The weapon-breakers (Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, Axebreaker, Kunaibreaker, Bowbreaker, Tomebreaker), for +50 hit, although only against specific weapon types.

Soar: +30 hit, although only against flying enemies

Underdog (the Avatar cannot access villager)

Lucky Seven: +20 Hit, but only for the first 7 turns

I'll note that in Bind's case that both the Yato and the Dragonstone are locked to 1-range, so for them you'd always trigger Bind whenever you could actually use these weapons to attack in combat.

[Featherwick]

Defense Flaw:

-5% Luck Growth, -10% Defense Growth, -5% Resistance Growth [these are only relevant before maxing]

-1 Starting/Base Defense [these are only relevant while your stats are still growing, making them less than they'd otherwise be]

-1 Luck Cap, -3 Defense Cap, -1 Resistance Cap [these are only relevant upon maxing]

Defense Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, on average, compared to have Defense not affected by your asset or flaw:

-4.8 DEF (-1 from lower starting value, -3.8 from 38 levels at 10% lost growth)

Luck Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions:

-1.9 Luck

Resistance Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions.

-1.9 Resistance.

So by 20/20, you'd need TWO Dracoshields (not one) to offset MOST of your DEF flaw's growth penalties… and then you'd still be -0.8 DEF in the hole (basically, the Dracoshields would make up for your lost growths by not for your 1 point lower base). A third Dracoshield would finally put you ahead of the expected values that you'd have had if you didn't have a DEF flaw (+6 DEF - 4.8 = +1.2 DEF).

Obviously, these are based on average values: actual results in gameplay may vary.

I still think that -DEF could be interesting if you were willing to make a Dracoshield investment into your Avatar (which might be more justifiable for other units, seeing that they're your Lord unit). That way, you hurt none of their offenses at all (-LCK hurts both MAG and STR, both in growth and caps; -HP hurts both STR/MAG in caps; -STR and -MAG are obvious; -SKL hurts STR; -SPD is ill-advised unless abusing Defensive Formation, -RES hurts MAG). Even in the cases where you don't want to use MAG, you still probably wouldn't want to take a -MAG or -RES flaw as that hurts SPD (-5% growth, leading to -1.9 SPD on average by 20/20, -1 SPD when capped)

I forgot that the asset wasn't HP, with HP as an asset you actually only have -5% luck and -5% defense growths, giving 1.9 less luck and 3 less defense on average, in which case a dracoshield would put you on par about, just a bit less, and your HP growth of 60 and 3 extra HP points should more than make up for the 1 to 3 points of defense lost.

[PuffPuff]

Oh hell no. Defense is too important a stat to make a flaw.

Which is why I'd make your MU into a Oni Savage+Shura/Blacksmith for awhile for the better HP and Def growth. 4 extra Def from class change alone make it even. =] Plus this will make it so it won't cost you possibly more than a Dracoshield. Plus Ogre Strike is great to get along the way.

I honestly agree. I thought of doing a +SPD -DEF. However, with the presence of enemy dual strikes, I think Defense is too important to give up. As I said before, Luck only gives a -1 penalty to STR, LUCK and MAG. That's a minimal drawback which is easily fixed by the Sky, Illusion, and Final Yatogami.

I would take three -1 penalties rather than a -3 defense deficit. Plus, the Avatar isn't really built for magic anyway since his ultimate weapon is a sword. The -1 magic has no drawback towards his combat performance.

Ugh....-5 in Speed from the Magic having only 10 in it. -5 in Skill -5 in Luck from the

+ Speed choice and -5 Res from the Mag choice.

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/hoshidan-characters/growth-rates/

So...

-Mag +Speed

HP45

Str45

Mag15

Skill35

Speed60

Luck40

Def35

Res20

-Def +Speed

HP45

Str45

Mag30

Skill35

Speed60

Luck35

Def25

Res20

This ain't too bad of an idea. But...since many enemies lack Res, Thunder Sword/Bolt Axes are good to use against them. Though it sucks that skills won't activate with these. The -Mag +Speed is actually not too bad of an idea. But...the v is why that -Def is the best flaw by far. =] Risky for Nohr route though. -.- I

Caps aren't relevant however for the base game. If we're talking about optimizing for like PVP or something than +spd/-def easily win since defense is completely useless in a PVP situation. +4 speed means you can double more units, and it allows you to make a +11 speed Kanna to double every unit, sans the +7 Midorikos or the +11 Kannas. Defense, resistance, and luck are all useless end game stats. Since, for PVP at least, if you get hit you're dead.

Honestly Defense is probably the best flaw in this game. Defense gives the lowest negative growth modifier with -5 to luck and resistance and only -10 to defense. And it is only -1 defense from your base stats. One Dracoshield will cover your defense completely and end up giving you the same defense you would have otherwise gotten if you had a neutral defense nature.

^

Defense Flaw:

-5% Luck Growth, -10% Defense Growth, -5% Resistance Growth [these are only relevant before maxing]

-1 Starting/Base Defense [these are only relevant while your stats are still growing, making them less than they'd otherwise be]

-1 Luck Cap, -3 Defense Cap, -1 Resistance Cap [these are only relevant upon maxing]

Defense Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, on average, compared to have Defense not affected by your asset or flaw:

-4.8 DEF (-1 from lower starting value, -3.8 from 38 levels at 10% lost growth)

Luck Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions:

-1.9 Luck

Resistance Loss between 1/0 and 20/20, same conditions.

-1.9 Resistance.

So by 20/20, you'd need TWO Dracoshields (not one) to offset MOST of your DEF flaw's growth penalties… and then you'd still be -0.8 DEF in the hole (basically, the Dracoshields would make up for your lost growths by not for your 1 point lower base). A third Dracoshield would finally put you ahead of the expected values that you'd have had if you didn't have a DEF flaw (+6 DEF - 4.8 = +1.2 DEF).

Obviously, these are based on average values: actual results in gameplay may vary.

I still think that -DEF could be interesting if you were willing to make a Dracoshield investment into your Avatar (which might be more justifiable for other units, seeing that they're your Lord unit). That way, you hurt none of their offenses at all (-LCK hurts both MAG and STR, both in growth and caps; -HP hurts both STR/MAG in caps; -STR and -MAG are obvious; -SKL hurts STR; -SPD is ill-advised unless abusing Defensive Formation, -RES hurts MAG). Even in the cases where you don't want to use MAG, you still probably wouldn't want to take a -MAG or -RES flaw as that hurts SPD (-5% growth, leading to -1.9 SPD on average by 20/20, -1 SPD when capped)

Mag, Speed and Res flaws are to avoid at all costs since Speed is way too important to lose. Luck may be a good flaw, though you will lose a point in your Str and Mag caps if you do. So...-Def is the ultimate flaw.

Are there any such skills that don't wind up either being player phase dependent (Raven Strike), also helping the enemy out (Flamboyant), or needing to be next to an enemy (Bind)? I mean, out of these, Bind might be the most useful, but still...

As for hit rate skills:

The weapon-breakers (Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, Axebreaker, Kunaibreaker, Bowbreaker, Tomebreaker), for +50 hit, although only against specific weapon types.

Soar: +30 hit, although only against flying enemies

Underdog (the Avatar cannot access villager)

Lucky Seven: +20 Hit, but only for the first 7 turns

These are the only ones I'm afraid. But...Avatar cannot get Aptitude, or Underdog without the skill shop.

[GoXDS]

These are the only ones I'm afraid. But...Avatar cannot get Aptitude, or Underdog without the skill shop.

Kamui can get neither, period besides hacked or buying from hacked

[Shadow Mir]

Which is why I'd make your MU into a Oni Savage+Shura/Blacksmith for awhile for the better HP and Def growth. 4 extra Def from class change alone make it even. =] Plus this will make it so it won't cost you possibly more than a Dracoshield. Plus Ogre Strike is great to get along the way.

No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, it still sounds about as smart as robbing a police station...

[GoXDS]

No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, it still sounds about as smart as robbing a police station...

+Spd/-Skl 20/0 Kamui reaches 13.6 Def and 30.4 HP

+Spd/-Def 20/0 Kamui reaches 11.65 Def and 30.4 HP

let's say enemy Str is ~16. with Steel Sword and C Rank weapon, that's 9+1 => 26 Atk. 2 hits brings /-Skl to 5.6 HP left while /-Spd has 1.7 HP left. neither survives 3 hits. doesn't change the overall bulk much

[Shadow Mir]

+Spd/-Skl 20/0 Kamui reaches 13.6 Def and 30.4 HP

+Spd/-Def 20/0 Kamui reaches 11.65 Def and 30.4 HP

let's say enemy Str is ~16. with Steel Sword and C Rank weapon, that's 9+1 => 26 Atk. 2 hits brings /-Skl to 5.6 HP left while /-Spd has 1.7 HP left. neither survives 3 hits. doesn't change the overall bulk much

Okay then. But I'm not going to condone a -3 cap and a -10% growth to a stat that's actually important.

[PuffPuff]

Okay then. But I'm not going to condone a -3 cap and a -10% growth to a stat that's actually important.

There really is no way around it other than for -Skill which only takes your Str and Def caps by 1. As everything else takes away stuff that is too important to lose.

[Shadow Mir]

There really is no way around it other than for -Skill which only takes your Str and Def caps by 1. As everything else takes away stuff that is too important to lose.

And that's why I suggested a Skill flaw - the slight penalty to Str and Def hurts, but ehhh.

[Psyruby]

And that's why I suggested a Skill flaw - the slight penalty to Str and Def hurts, but ehhh.

Are we talking only doing +Spd? As if the idea is to double most of the time, then -Skl is actually a little bit worse than you might imagine. The decreased Skill is 8 points overall on average and 2 more Luck overall, which totals to 11% less accuracy. This is about 4(actually it would be 6 less damage if you got Str up to 30+) less damage on average at 20/20. The slight strength reduction would reduce damage by another 4 for physical attacks, but the kicker is that magic is also effected by skill.

Technically if you do +Spd, -Str it would result in 5 less Str by 20/20, 0 less Skl, and 2 more Luck, which is 10 less damage for physical attacks. So.... take your pick, 8 less damage for physical attacks and 4 less damage for magic attacks on average OR 10 less damage on physical attacks.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Psyruby

[Shadow Mir]

Are we talking only doing +Spd? As if the idea is to double most of the time, then -Skl is actually a little bit worse than you might imagine. The decreased Skill is 8 points overall on average and 2 more Luck overall, which totals to 11% less accuracy. This is about 4(actually it would be 6 less damage if you got Str up to 30+) less damage on average at 20/20. The slight strength reduction would reduce damage by another 4 for physical attacks, but the kicker is that magic is also effected by skill.

Technically if you do +Spd, -Str it would result in 5 less Str by 20/20, 0 less Skl, and 2 more Luck, which is 10 less damage for physical attacks. So.... take your pick, 8 less damage for physical attacks and 4 less damage for magic attacks on average OR 10 less damage on physical attacks.

I meant more in general.

[PuffPuff]

Are we talking only doing +Spd? As if the idea is to double most of the time, then -Skl is actually a little bit worse than you might imagine. The decreased Skill is 8 points overall on average and 2 more Luck overall, which totals to 11% less accuracy. This is about 4(actually it would be 6 less damage if you got Str up to 30+) less damage on average at 20/20. The slight strength reduction would reduce damage by another 4 for physical attacks, but the kicker is that magic is also effected by skill.

Technically if you do +Spd, -Str it would result in 5 less Str by 20/20, 0 less Skl, and 2 more Luck, which is 10 less damage for physical attacks. So.... take your pick, 8 less damage for physical attacks and 4 less damage for magic attacks on average OR 10 less damage on physical attacks.

If you going to go with the -Str flaw, don't get Galeforce, because then his/her attk won't be good enough for it since it no longer works when being by another character, paired whatsoever.

Like I would go with a +Str and -Res with my last avy to abuse the hell out of Galeforce after giving

With a -Res and+Str

Str+15

Skill-5

Def-5

-5 Mag

-5 Spd

-10 Res

It'd be...

HP45

Str60

Mag25

Skill35

Spd40

Luck45

Def30

Res15

him these.

This isn't too bad cosidering his Speed is still 40% after all of this and getting a +2 in Speed to bypass the -1 in Speed which you can pick up in the Galefo- I mean...Dark Falcon class.

With a +Spd and -Str

-10 skill

-5 luck

+15 Spd

-5 Def

Str-10

Would make it this...

HP45

Str35

Mag30

Skill30

Spd60

Luck40

Def30

Res25

But butchering 3 Str cap...

Better have a +2 Str skill then to bypass that horrible cap that is if you want to abuse Galeforce.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Princess_Florina