Minedreigon Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) As of now, I have a Beserker Gregor with the skill set Wrath/LB/Vantage/Armshift/Axefaire. However, I have been considering doing a similar thing in the Hero class, or completely change him to a Sol Vantage tank like his daughter Nah. Here are the pros of cons of each so you can help me decide! Pros of Hero: Hero is far better rounded with superior defensive stats, which could matter to avoid him just keeling over before reaching Vantage range. Hero has a higher skill cap, however he'll reach enough skill to 100% Vengeance (I'm using the axe) with a rallybot anyway in either class. Hero isn't locked into axes. Cons of Hero: With only a 52 speed cap in Hero with LB, after rally gives me +10 speed and +3 speed pair up bonus from a Manakete, he will hit 65 speed and I'm pretty sure this gets me doubled by Anna in Apotheosis (A tonic would fix this, but I'm really forgetful). To remedy this I could replace Axefaire with All Stats+2 if necessary. Far lower Strenght cap. Please help me decide to go with either of these or change to a Sol Tank instead. Thanks! Edited September 7, 2015 by Minedreigon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Vengeance might be a powerful tool, but the axe itself isn't very applicable. The only non-brave that it functions with are the 3 range bows (so Gregor even using Vengeance in the first place isn't really a smart idea) and sometimes in niche conditions higher rank tomes. One of the reasons why V/V works is because you kill the enemy before they kill you, but it's hard to do that in a poor weapon + melee range + no brave output yourself. I also don't think Gregor is hitting 100% DS or 100% crit, so you're already asking to gamble something completely arbitrarily for the novelty half of the build (and the weapon to an extent). But if you were considering Sol... it's a very lackluster skill in Apo for multiple reasons. It negates the chance of a proc to add damage (such as Luna), without said proc you aren't getting any good damage in to heal (dragonskin alone is a laughable heal), and Sol itself puts you out of vantage. You're worrying about Anna doubling you? If she even gets one turn on his sorry ass he's dead anyway if you're already using vengeance based strats. Doubling is the last thing on your mind with V/V because the whole point is to be at critically low health to get the most bang for your buck. Don't try and do multiple setups against multiple enemies. Getting hit, healing, getting hit, rinse and repeat is nowhere near the abused potential vengeance can pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minedreigon Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Vengeance might be a powerful tool, but the axe itself isn't very applicable. The only non-brave that it functions with are the 3 range bows (so Gregor even using Vengeance in the first place isn't really a smart idea) and sometimes in niche conditions higher rank tomes. One of the reasons why V/V works is because you kill the enemy before they kill you, but it's hard to do that in a poor weapon + melee range + no brave output yourself. I also don't think Gregor is hitting 100% DS or 100% crit, so you're already asking to gamble something completely arbitrarily for the novelty half of the build (and the weapon to an extent). But if you were considering Sol... it's a very lackluster skill in Apo for multiple reasons. It negates the chance of a proc to add damage (such as Luna), without said proc you aren't getting any good damage in to heal (dragonskin alone is a laughable heal), and Sol itself puts you out of vantage. You're worrying about Anna doubling you? If she even gets one turn on his sorry ass he's dead anyway if you're already using vengeance based strats. Doubling is the last thing on your mind with V/V because the whole point is to be at critically low health to get the most bang for your buck. Don't try and do multiple setups against multiple enemies. Getting hit, healing, getting hit, rinse and repeat is nowhere near the abused potential vengeance can pull. My Sol Tank spread would obviously not wield Vengeance lol, he'd simply be a Sol tank just like his daughter is. This is all helpful but I still have no idea wether or not to convert completely to a Sol tank or not, and if I don't run a VVW OR a Sol Tank, what else is there to be done with Gregor? He can't get any other really good Procs anyway (Lol @Astra activation rate, and where outside of Swordmaster can he use this skill anyway?) so I'm completely stumped with what I'm supposed to do with him. Edited September 7, 2015 by Minedreigon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 If you were going to use Sol + Vengeance, it would be even worse. Sol doesn't really have a redemption value. Sol is bad even with braves' damage output tbh, Gregor doesn't even try to look good at all on paper for Apo. Neither are "tanks." Aggressive gameplay is favored over defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 1. The only way Gregor can get Vengeance is by using a specific weapon, one of which I'm not fond of. 2. What about rallies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minedreigon Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 1. The only way Gregor can get Vengeance is by using a specific weapon, one of which I'm not fond of. 2. What about rallies? I've already explained that Gregor hits 65 as a Hero after a rallybot's +10 rally and pairup bonuses. And yes, I'm aware of the Vengeance axe issue. If you mean rallies on Gregor, why would I use anyone other than DLC Katarina + other as rallybots, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think you're underplaying the axe issue. This issue exceeds that of normal issues; there's no point in using vengeance if you just want to die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) what else is there to be done with Gregor? The bench- it's not an uncommon fate. If you want to use him, he should be a hard support for a more capable wife (though none of Gregor's usual wives are Apo material either, so...). Also, if you get LB/Vantage/Wrath/AF/All+2 on your Gregor, give him an S support and manage to get his Skl to 70, he'll have 70 crit. All S.Apo enemies have 55 or more Lck, so he's not very useful as a crit machine. Edited September 7, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minedreigon Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 The bench- it's not an uncommon fate. If you want to use him, he should be a hard support for a more capable wife (though none of Gregor's usual wives are Apo material either, so...). Also, if you get LB/Vantage/Wrath/AF/All+2 on your Gregor, give him an S support and manage to get his Skl to 70, he'll have 70 crit. All S.Apo enemies have 55 or more Lck, so he's not very useful as a crit machine. Eh, doesn't sound too appealing anymore. Thanks for the help everyone. RIP Russian god, have fun on the bench. I'll probably end up filling the slot with like one of the two children I haven't picked up yet or another staffbot. Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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