With the advent of a new patch...

[euklyd]

That's not something that I feel is that bad.

I don't play Sheik but if I were to change anything about Sheik it'd probably revolve around making some of her stronger moves easier to punish. Alternatively maybe add a few more landing lag frames to fair so that it stops being extremely safe in most situations, or make the needles slightly slower for similar reasons. If any of her combo tools were outright nerfed Sheik would become terrible at racking up damage, which might screw her over way too hard.

Overall balance is pretty good in this game and definitely getting better with every patch.

her stronger moves are easy to punish, that's why she never uses them

all her formerly good strong moves were made useless for outright killing

more landing lag on fair does literally nothing fyi; you could give it a full second of landing lag and it likely wouldn't change much at all

because it autocancels on frame ~11

also for the record needles already got more endlag. (iirc kirby's needles still have the original amount of endlag, tho)

not saying they shouldn't get more, buuut

[Vhaltz]

Well yeah if they increased landing lag they'd also need to delay autocancel for it to do anything.

Wrt needles I was referring more to projectile speed, I don't think increasing the endlag would make a very significant change to playing against Sheik, whereas being able to react to needles more easily could prevent getting hit by them offstage and make them less great in neutral as well.

[euklyd]

my point is that landing lag on fair is (currently) irrelevant; nobody suffers the full 10 frames anyways because it autocancels; simply removing the autocancel window would be more than doubling the amount of landing lag the move has

also getting hit by needles offstage is like

you really should be anticipating it and airdodging

[Icemario]

Better frame data for Shulk and anything that will bring Marth closer to being as good as he was before.

[Zera]

Give Marth more endlag.

Buff Sheik's fair even more.

Give Rosalina a second Luma.

Nerf Mac's recovery.

Give Zelda her old down-B back.

Bring back Brawl Meta Knight.

Double all Ganondorf's damage.

Give all Bowser's moves super armor.

Make all of DK's throws kill throws.

Add a Sin and Punishment rep.

Nerf Greninja.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Zera

[Jedi]

Better frame data for Shulk and anything that will bring Marth closer to being as good as he was before.

They need to change Marths throws back to how they worked in Melee and Brawl, that would help loads.

[euklyd]

let's just port over brawl marth entirely

I can see it now: "Project B: Making Super Smash Bros for Wii U more like Brawl"

[Zera]

Project B: Now with 100% more hitstun canceling, chain grabs, Solid Snake, and an Adventure Mode!

[Knight]

Hey, at least we'd get Snake.

[Kiseki]

After playing around with Roy and then trying to go back to my other mains, Kirby and Ganon feel surprisingly underwhelming now. I know those two characters have been buffed a little in recent patches, but that still doesn't change their glaring flaws with mobility from Brawl. I'd give them better hitbox sizes and more speed in general.

On the topic on nerfing Sheik, I'd change the trajectory of her moves and make it so that she isn't always guaranteed to win the neutral (but not to the point where she's unviable).

Also, can someone explain how Falcon's dash grab is supposed to work? (As in, where are its hitboxes and stuff) I literally can't get that move to land at all, even when it looked like it should and despite hearing people say how good the move is.

[Czar_Yoshi]

On the topic on nerfing Sheik, I'd change the trajectory of her moves and make it so that she isn't always guaranteed to win the neutral (but not to the point where she's unviable).

Just make her fAir have the trajectory of a Jigglypuff pound, but without hitstun.

Seriously though all I want them to do is stop breaking Replays. And make Replays from all past versions work again. And a ton of other stuff that has to do with everything but the gameplay itself.

[The DanMan]

Give Samus some all-round buffs; fix up Marth/Lucina's grabs; increase Robin's mobility and/or grab range; bring Sheik down a level; decrease lag on some of Shulk's moves.

[euklyd]

After playing around with Roy and then trying to go back to my other mains, Kirby and Ganon feel surprisingly underwhelming now. I know those two characters have been buffed a little in recent patches, but that still doesn't change their glaring flaws with mobility from Brawl. I'd give them better hitbox sizes and more speed in general.

On the topic on nerfing Sheik, I'd change the trajectory of her moves and make it so that she isn't always guaranteed to win the neutral (but not to the point where she's unviable).

Also, can someone explain how Falcon's dash grab is supposed to work? (As in, where are its hitboxes and stuff) I literally can't get that move to land at all, even when it looked like it should and despite hearing people say how good the move is.

you gotta grab significantly before you reach your opponent

you should probably just grind it out in training mode tbh

[Ragnell]

Just make her fAir have the trajectory of a Jigglypuff pound, but without hitstun.

Seriously though all I want them to do is stop breaking Replays. And make Replays from all past versions work again. And a ton of other stuff that has to do with everything but the gameplay itself.

That's not possible. When you make a replay, the game isn't actually recording video. To save space, it just records which buttons you press and when, along with the random numbers needed to recreate the same item drops, hazards, etc. Then the game just reenacts the fight using the same commands you used previously. When the game gets patched, the fundamental properties of attacks and characters change, so the button sequence will no longer reproduce the same fight.

As for what buffs/nerfs I would like, I think the only character I would strictly nerf is Sheik. Personally, I think she would benefit from being brought back to her original design concept (i.e. make her have a lot more trouble killing, while still being able to combo and camp extremely well). I don't know what the best way to do this would be, but bouncing fish and upair seem like prime targets. Nothing crazy, mind you. I don't even mind if she remains top tier, just tweak her enough to put her in line with ZSS, Pika, Diddy, and co. The next ~7 characters behind Sheik are actually fairly well balanced amongst each other.

As for other tweaks to the competitive characters, I think ZSS could use an adjustment on her upB. I feel like making it kill later but connect more consistently would probably be an acceptable trade for ZSS mains, while avoiding the inevitable cries of how broken she is once Sheik gets nerfed. I also believe Luigi needs some fine-tuning. Luigi wins an outrageous number of local tourneys, but is completely absent from top-level play, which I feel says something about his flawed design. Making his attacks slightly less powerful in exchange for slightly better recovery might be nice, though I don't know enough about Luigi to give specifics. I am just really not a fan of so-called gate-keeper characters like Luigi that completely destroy you unless you are professionally good.

Last but not least, let the low tier buffs continue! I think the widespread demand for Marth buffs just proves what a fun and extremely well-designed character he is. People want him back in tournaments, so I would love to see either his endlag or throw game get some further improvement. Mewtwo and Samus desperately need some hitbox fixes as well, though I am continually concerned that just universally buffing Samus' attacks will make her unbearable in the lag-filled FG environment. Spamus's are annoying enough as is. The Mii's also need some 1111 buffs, since pretty much the entire world seems to have settled on either banning them or restricting their moveset for some reason. Miis are also really common mains among the ultra-casual fanbase (surprise, surprise), so making them a little more threatening would be nice.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Ragnell

[euklyd]

As for what buffs/nerfs I would like, I think the only character I would strictly nerf is Sheik. Personally, I think she would benefit from being brought back to her original design concept (i.e. make her have a lot more trouble killing, while still being able to combo and camp extremely well). I don't know what the best way to do this would be, but bouncing fish and upair seem like prime targets. Nothing crazy, mind you. I don't even mind if she remains top tier, just tweak her enough to put her in line with ZSS, Pika, Diddy, and co. The next ~7 characters behind Sheik are actually fairly well balanced amongst each other.

sorry where was this her original design? in melee she has kill moves and kill combos, in SSB4 she originally had kill moves

ftr brawl is irrelevant since it's neither her original smash design or her original SSB4 design

also uair and bouncing fish were already hit in 1.0.4

bouncing fish kills mario teetering on the edge at 130%, uair kills mario on battlefield top platform at 150+%

and that's not even what people complain about

nobody says "man sheik can outright kill you at 150% so broken"

you take away all her kill moves (let's be real she already doesn't have real kill moves) and people will still whine because it's not her power that makes her good, it's her frame data and gimping ability

[Comet]

if one were to take away sheik's frame data or gimping ability, there would be no point of using her... all the sheik mains would probably just switch to pikachu lol. everyone else just needs to be better.

[Kiseki]

As for other tweaks to the competitive characters, I think ZSS could use an adjustment on her upB. I feel like making it kill later but connect more consistently would probably be an acceptable trade for ZSS mains, while avoiding the inevitable cries of how broken she is once Sheik gets nerfed. I also believe Luigi needs some fine-tuning. Luigi wins an outrageous number of local tourneys, but is completely absent from top-level play, which I feel says something about his flawed design. Making his attacks slightly less powerful in exchange for slightly better recovery might be nice, though I don't know enough about Luigi to give specifics. I am just really not a fan of so-called gate-keeper characters like Luigi that completely destroy you unless you are professionally good.

The thing with ZSS is that all of her damage output comes from after getting just that one grab to land. It's why most ZSS players online will spam Paralyzer for most of the match, because it easily sets up for getting the grab.

Meanwhile Luigi's transcendence is pretty freaking ridiculous. I don't really know how it's calculated, but at least make it "less" for Luigi.

sorry where was this her original design? in melee she has kill moves and kill combos, in SSB4 she originally had kill moves

ftr brawl is irrelevant since it's neither her original smash design or her original SSB4 design

also uair and bouncing fish were already hit in 1.0.4

bouncing fish kills mario teetering on the edge at 130%, uair kills mario on battlefield top platform at 150+%

I don't think that's what he meant by "design concept". I think he was referring to how the character is played (as in how Falco plays completely differently in every one of his Smash appearances).

And the Bouncing Fish/U-Air nerf is kinda irrelevant in practice. I've recently only seen those moves used to apply pressure and damage before kill percents (like seeing a Bouncing Fish almost always comboing out of a forward throw). Killing with those moves isn't really a problem since Shiek doesn't have any trouble racking up that much damage in the first place.

[Knife]

Don't let Sheik get a 50/50 kill off dthrow.

Make vanish more punishable and remove the windbox/add landing lag

Slow down needles a bit more

I guarantee you just this stuff will make her 100% less dumb