New ~Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Zak Something]

i'm like the only one who hasnt had a problem with EOsD.

but ive had issues with every other game ive tried SOOOOOOO.

[Robert Stewart]

I don't recall having many problems getting it to run, but I've never played much of it.

tfw a game works better in Wine than in Windows.

Edited July 12, 2016 by shinpichu

[Renne]

It crashes if I run the other program. >_> I'll try reinstalling it then.

nope

Edited July 12, 2016 by Altina Orion

[Robert Stewart]

Aren't their directx patches for the older games? Could she try one of those?

[ZemZem]

also I can't get past Wakasagi in DDC. :T

which difficulty

[Renne]

which difficulty

which one would I even dare to try

easy :T

unless another team is better

I've only really tried with Sakuya and Remilia

Edited July 12, 2016 by Altina Orion

[ZemZem]

It's alright, you'll get there. .w.

[Renne]

Maybe when EoSD actually loads for me. \o/

How do I play DDC? ;w; I wanna at least get to Kagerou... but I can't even kick that half-fish butt.

[Renne]

Auto collect

if you go up to the top of the screen you instantly collect all the resources on the screen, and you get awarded bombs and lives for doing so.

you pretty much have to do this to get more lives or else you'll just die quickly.

of course you also have to practice a lot so you don't die to mermaid and stuff.

But I try and I still die ;w; eventually

How do you use bombs in DDC?

[Kriemhild]

Well, to be fair. You were the one who taught a mere mortal like me to beat DDC Ex. Prior to that I was convinced extra stages were for people like ZM.

Ah, yeah, I remember that. You were pretty good back then, too.

I like patchy a lot, and it's not even the shots that bother me, it's that fucking awful bomb. Does barely any damage in most situations, and doesn't clear much bullets at all.

And the low power means I can't get past yamame.

but fromt there on out I really like the shot and want to use it.

Well, I'm not sure what you were expecting out of its bomb. Convenient bombs that you can use anytime to get a nice payoff (wrt damage and invincibility) are rare in SA. Only Ayayaya really has such a bomb, and to a lesser extent, Yukari. And while you can abuse Ayayaya's bomb like how you abuse bombs in other Touhou games, her awkward shot requires a lot more care and precision to handle. Yukari is the only one that you can play like a standard Touhou shot, but again, her narrow range can be pretty annoying, and her bomb still falls short of the heavy bombskipping damage that you'd hope for.

The thing about SA in general that it's heavily based on learning how to deal with the patterns. I don't just mean memorization, but unlike other Touhou games, SA is less oriented towards raw dodging skills and more focused on learning and adapting through experience and planning. So no matter which shot you use, you'll need to plan your approach for most of the threats from before. Patchy's bomb hits incredibly hard at shotgun range, especially with Wood Sign. You can actually skip entire spells through Patchy's bomb if you plan for it.

But no, Patchy's bomb alone doesn't make her amazing. It's mainly Water Sign being really awesome for stages. But her bomb is definitely strong enough to be of great help if you can plan their usage. I definitely wouldn't call her bomb "awful" by SA standards. It definitely requires heavy planning, but you're kinda forced to rely on heavy planning in some form or another if you plan to overcome SA (unless you have amazing raw dodging skills).

I probably should just resign to doing that, too. I keep thinking I can capture Hard Ichirin's spellcards because they look so deceptively simple, but I keep messing them up. Heck, even on Normal Ichirin arguably is the Stage 3 boss whose spellcards I fail most often.

The only thing more frightening than Lunatic Ichirin is Lunatic Kagerou imo.

Well, okay, tbh, I have captured her first and last boss spell a few times (middle one is evil, though I did capture it ONCE), but when I have a serious intention to 1cc, Unzan is going to eat bombs for sure.

Agreed, it really is the insanely tanky bosses that make SA as difficult as it is... Though Lunatic, of course, still requires your full attention during the stage portions. Lunatic Stage 1 in particular is surprisingly ruthless; much harder than anything Stage 2 (including Parsee) throws at you. It's probably the hardest Stage 1 in any Touhou, period.

Heh, even on Hard, the stage portions of Stage 1 are definitely tougher than Stage 2's, and arguably tougher than Stage 3's even, imo. Not surprised that Lunatic Stage 1 is even more brutal.

It's not worth it. ReimuC achieves the same thing while dealing far more damage, being significantly easier to use and having a bomb that doesn't require you to plan its use ahead of time to do literally anything at all.

...and, of course, Reimu's hitbox being smaller than Marisa's is a real boon on Lunatic, unless you're insane and want to supergraze all those lasers in Stage 3 and 4.

At long range, Fire Sign hits harder than Ayayaya when both are at Lv4. Ayayaya's back shots reign supreme for Lv3 though. I'm not sure how the heck Ayayaya is easier to use though. Patchy destroys stages with that Water Sign really smoothly, while Ayayaya has to constantly worry about shot positioning with every freaking movement she makes. And she still doesn't attain Water Sign level of spread, which gives her a harder time with stages. Ayayaya does have the best bomb in SA, as well as the best Lv3 damage output for most scenarios, and I can certainly understand why some players may prefer her over Patchy, but I would not say that Ayayaya is definitively better than Patchy. They play very differently, and their relative viability depends entirely on the player's own playstyle and comfort imo. At the very least, I definitely find Patchy > Ayayaya for me, and I know others who have the opposite preference.

Couldn't you just bomb both? As far as I recall, with the boss fight included, Stage 1 has enough Power for three bombs. You could bomb Yamame's opening non-spell once, and her last spellcard even twice if needed. Like I said, you should be fine to enter Stage 2 at 0 Power.

On Hard, I would almost always bomb during the stage portions and likely once during Yamame's final spell. Stage 2 are Parsee are tame enough that I can recover before Stage 3. Lunatic may be a different story though...

I feel ya. Unless you know ahead of time you don't even want to attempt doing a given pattern the normal way and get right up into the boss' face, MarisaB's bomb does pretty much nothing.

But when you DO know when you do want to attempt it, it works amazingly. I think that's great because it's very difficult to succeed in SA without having clear plans on how to deal with everything, regardless of what shot type you're using. The classic approach of "try dodging everything, bomb when you're in danger" is not sufficient for SA imo unless your raw dodging skills are really good, so it's not what I'd recommend for players trying to get their first clear on a mode.

And even if you know ahead of time you want to bomb, it's barely any help in the stage portions.

But Water Sign definitely makes stage portions a lot easier, so she has no issues there. Only Alice can really compete with Patchy in that aspect, but Alice has other annoying issues.

[Kriemhild]

koishi: tell me what this looks like to you. :D

"a fuckton of pain."

jk at least from that screenshot it actually looks managable somewhat unless the bullets move at 69 mph or something.

It LOOKS manageable, yes. But it's harder than it looks because of how small the gaps are and how the bullets move and overlap. I never actually captured it, even.

What are familiars? >_> pls I don't know stuff inside Touhou games.

Familiars are only in IN. They are the circular stuff that enemies (including bosses) sometimes release which fire their own bullets. When you're a human, familiars appear as flashing white circles and you can directly hurt and destroy them. When you're a youkai, familiars appear as larger magic circles that blend with the background, and they can't be hurt (shots go right through them as if they ARE part of the background).

Killing the main enemy will cause their familiars to explode. The explosion doesn't hurt you but it deletes bullets.

Familiars are important because

a) they can surround an enemy like shields, so you'll have a hard time killing them as a human. Switching to a youkai allows you to hit the main enemy directly and kill them faster.

b) the bullet clearance can help a lot when there are a lot of enemies. Destroying familiars as a human will not cause them to explode, so not only would you have a harder time hurting the main enemies, but you'll also need to deal with more bullets. Focus as a youkai to kill enemies and you'll see lots of bullets disappearing.

c) However, for certain boss attacks, it may be a good idea to destroy the familiars quickly so that they don't fire their bullets, allowing you to dodge more easily and comfortably take out the boss. Earliest significant example I can think of are Keine's boss nonspells.

There are other reasons but they're more advanced and/or scoring-related imo.

also I can't get past Wakasagi in DDC. :T

Hmmm, try to stay low on the screen, make sure you focus (hold Shift) and just direct your attention to the area around your character. It shouldn't be too hard to dodge if you can concentrate.

I do wanna play EoSD just to see how far I can go but every time I load it, it freezes. Maybe that's why the disc doesn't want to work for me either. ;w;

EoSD has a lot of problems with a lot of people. I'm going to suggest getting earlier versions of DirectX but that's all I know.

I've only really tried with Sakuya and Remilia

I would not really recommend Scarlet Team for beginners, tbh. Sakuya's shots are weak and Remilia's familiar positioning can be a little difficult to use. I'd honestly recommend either Border Team (Reimu/Yukari) or Netherworld (Youmu/Yuyuko). The former is generally easier to use and pretty solid, but the latter has Yuyuko who utterly destroys stage sections.

Maybe when EoSD actually loads for me. \o/

How do I play DDC? ;w; I wanna at least get to Kagerou... but I can't even kick that half-fish butt.

First question, which shot are you using? And are you aware of the controls, most notably holding SHIFT for focused movement?

General advice to begin: Try to stay low on the screen (not necessarily the absolute bottom, but close enough) and focus more on dodging than killing enemies. Do try to shoot down enemies if you feel you can do so without endangering yourself though. Try to collect red P items and don't worry about the blue items (they're just for score). And if you ever feel like it's safe to do so, you can also quickly (unfocused) move up above a certain point high up in the screen to auto-collect items. This is actually really important for resources in DDC, but I'll let you focus on perfecting Stage 1 and Wakasagihime first before worrying about stuff like that.

How do you use bombs in DDC?

For any Touhou game, press X.

[Kriemhild]

well I could also consider reimub, believe it or not. I've got the farthest with her (satori). I'm comfortable with the damage, it sucks, but it's not patchy tier, the bomb isn't useless, and I love autocollect.

and if SA really does require plans that are really fine-tuned, I'm not sure if I should even bother. That whole, dodge as much you can, bomb when you need to is literally how I cleared everything up until now. I mean even if the game ended at stage 5 it would still take me longer than anything I've ever done up until this point.

Why are you even bothering with SA Lunatic? SA is already one of the tougher games and Lunatic is just crazy. Like, did you already clear a bunch of Lunatics or something before going into SA Lunatic?

That being said, because SA is a planning-based game, I would actually encourage you to keep trying. Whether you realize it or not, your heavy practice with SA Lunatic is likely causing you to subconsciously plan out how to deal with stuff. If you keep this up, you will find yourself learning more and more and eventually it should become feasible to clear.

Of course, even the subconscious planning still depends on the shot type (since they have different niches), so that's still a really important decision. But imo Yukari is the best for subconscious growth due to being closest to the classic style. Patchy is more suited for conscious planning, and is terrible for the classic approach.

Just my opinion though, and what works best for you depends on your own playstyle and preference. Just go with whoever you're most comfortable with.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Rainbow

[Renne]

Hmmm, try to stay low on the screen, make sure you focus (hold Shift) and just direct your attention to the area around your character. It shouldn't be too hard to dodge if you can concentrate.

EoSD has a lot of problems with a lot of people. I'm going to suggest getting earlier versions of DirectX but that's all I know.

I would not really recommend Scarlet Team for beginners, tbh. Sakuya's shots are weak and Remilia's familiar positioning can be a little difficult to use. I'd honestly recommend either Border Team (Reimu/Yukari) or Netherworld (Youmu/Yuyuko). The former is generally easier to use and pretty solid, but the latter has Yuyuko who utterly destroys stage sections.

First question, which shot are you using? And are you aware of the controls, most notably holding SHIFT for focused movement?

General advice to begin: Try to stay low on the screen (not necessarily the absolute bottom, but close enough) and focus more on dodging than killing enemies. Do try to shoot down enemies if you feel you can do so without endangering yourself though. Try to collect red P items and don't worry about the blue items (they're just for score). And if you ever feel like it's safe to do so, you can also quickly (unfocused) move up above a certain point high up in the screen to auto-collect items. This is actually really important for resources in DDC, but I'll let you focus on perfecting Stage 1 and Wakasagihime first before worrying about stuff like that.

For any Touhou game, press X.

I have concentration issues. But I know about shift, though not sure about the difference.

I see.. I'll try Netherworld instead next time then.

Shot? Huh. Sometimes I press hold. To dodge and stuff.

I'll try.... I think I managed to get past Wakasagi once... and then I died in the next stage by Sekibanki. :T

[Kriemhild]

I have concentration issues. But I know about shift, though not sure about the difference.

Everybody has trouble concentrating when they first start (though if you're innately bad at concentrating, then this might be quite a challenge), but with enough practice I'm sure you can get accustomed to it.

I see.. I'll try Netherworld instead next time then.

I'd suggest trying both Border and Netherworld and go with whichever one feels more comfortable. Youmu from Netherworld can be a bit awkward to some players.

Also, to tl;dr beginner advice about familiars: if you see a generic enemy with familiars (flashing bright solid circles OR magic circles blending with the background), then hold SHIFT (the familiars should be in their magic circle form) and try to kill the enemy.

Shot? Huh. Sometimes I press hold. To dodge and stuff.

Sorry, by "shot", I was asking which shot type you were using. Specifically, which of ReimuA, ReimuB, MarisaA, MarisaB, SakuyaA, or SakuyaB you were using. After you select the character, the first option is type A, and the second is B.

Holding SHIFT for dodging is good, and what I was asking about, yeah. You shouldn't hold SHIFT all the time though, since it slows the character down. Also, not sure if you know this yet, but the red circle that appears when you hold SHIFT is your hitbox. As long as the circle doesn't collide with a bullet, then you're safe and fine. There might be some SFX if the bullets get close but those are fine and nothing to worry about.

I'll try.... I think I managed to get past Wakasagi once... and then I died in the next stage by Sekibanki. :T

You at least reached Sekibanki, which is great. Sekibanki is admittedly a little tough for beginners even for Stage 2 standards but again, practice can make it a lot easier. On that note, DDC has spell practice that allows you to practice spells separately for training purposes.

That's a really good question actually, lmao

well, for one, I like SA a lot, besides my endless complaining with it, it has a few of my favorite characters in it + the music is great.

I have no other touhou games I really feel motivated to play, doing IN, PCB, or MoF on lunatic doesn't seem all that interesting to me.

And I've really limited myself to touhou 6-11 at this point to play anything different.

I was playing it on hard, but then I moved it up to lunatic and I realized I was getting pretty much the exact same results anyways so...

yeah this is really it for my touhou goals at this point, I got eosd lunatic which I wanted for a while so I'm kinda stuck.

The EoSD Lunatic even further convinces me that you can certainly handle SA Lunatic if you keep trying. I'm not sure if it was smart to skip SA Hard and jump to Lunatic, but eh, I still think you can do it. SA is also one of my favorite Touhou games too~

I believe this. I actually had a really good run with stage 1 and 3 today. Of course I fucked it all up at yuugi's last spell, and her laser's got me as usual, but hey it's something.

An improvement is an improvement, no matter how small.

Both reimub and reimua got me the most results with sa normal and easy so I should probably stick to that anyways.

Would recommend ReimuA but yeah, stick to a shot you're comfortable with.

thanks for your advice though, I'm going to keep playing just because I have no other plans on games to play for summer anyways.

Good luck!

[Kriemhild]

Oh, whoops, I forgot one of the most important pieces of advice for a beginner when fighting against bosses like Wakasagihime. Try to stay calm and don't move around too much. If bullets approach you, then hold SHIFT and reposition your hitbox to be at a location where the bullets don't hit you. Don't try "running away" from them.

And when you're not being threatened by bullets, then you can try to position yourself to be under the boss.

Also, Wakasagihime's bullets may have annoying trajectories, so it may help to go into Spell Practice so that you can train yourself to read those bullets. It'll help a lot for general dodging, not just for Wakasagihime.

[Renne]

Everybody has trouble concentrating when they first start (though if you're innately bad at concentrating, then this might be quite a challenge), but with enough practice I'm sure you can get accustomed to it.

I'd suggest trying both Border and Netherworld and go with whichever one feels more comfortable. Youmu from Netherworld can be a bit awkward to some players.

Also, to tl;dr beginner advice about familiars: if you see a generic enemy with familiars (flashing bright solid circles OR magic circles blending with the background), then hold SHIFT (the familiars should be in their magic circle form) and try to kill the enemy.

Sorry, by "shot", I was asking which shot type you were using. Specifically, which of ReimuA, ReimuB, MarisaA, MarisaB, SakuyaA, or SakuyaB you were using. After you select the character, the first option is type A, and the second is B.

Holding SHIFT for dodging is good, and what I was asking about, yeah. You shouldn't hold SHIFT all the time though, since it slows the character down. Also, not sure if you know this yet, but the red circle that appears when you hold SHIFT is your hitbox. As long as the circle doesn't collide with a bullet, then you're safe and fine. There might be some SFX if the bullets get close but those are fine and nothing to worry about.

You at least reached Sekibanki, which is great. Sekibanki is admittedly a little tough for beginners even for Stage 2 standards but again, practice can make it a lot easier. On that note, DDC has spell practice that allows you to practice spells separately for training purposes.

I'm innately bad at concentration but then again depression. But yeah, practice should help better with that.

I see... But I don't like Reimu. Oh well. I'll try either way.

Oh. Umm... I think SakuyaB.

Yeah I noticed as much about the movement slowing down from holding shift. I can't say I noticed the red circle around the character when holding shift but I'll pay more attention to it when I start it up again. After this practice speedrun.

Haha, let's see if I can reach Sekibanki again. >_> I still fared better in IN than DDC somehow.

[Kriemhild]

I'm innately bad at concentration but then again depression. But yeah, practice should help better with that.

Aww... but yeah, you can do it!

I see... But I don't like Reimu. Oh well. I'll try either way.

Nobody likes Reimu, but either would be fine imo. Scarlet Team isn't bad either, but I wouldn't recommend it since it's harder to use. Just don't try Magic Team because Alice is awful gameplay-wise.

Oh. Umm... I think SakuyaB.

...that might explain why you're having trouble. SakuyaB's shot type is really terrible, aside from it's AMAZING scoring potential. I'm pretty sure you don't care about score, so SakuyaB will only make things harder for no benefit. Her bomb doesn't even dish out any damage. I'd strongly recommend shifting to a different shot type. On that note, MarisaA, while having a cool flamethrower, is also pretty bad from a gameplay survival perspective.

I'd recommend either ReimuA, (ReimuB), MarisaB, or SakuyaA. Only the Reimu shots have standard bombs from those shots, and I'd say MarisaB's bomb and her lack of spread/aiming would make her harder to use. SakuyaA is really awesome, and although her bomb doesn't dish out any damage, it's still very good. SakuyaA's focused shot is also quite great, firing knives that aim at enemies and stick to them, slightly slowing down the bullets that they fire(d), before exploding for some good damage.

Yeah I noticed as much about the movement slowing down from holding shift. I can't say I noticed the red circle around the character when holding shift but I'll pay more attention to it when I start it up again. After this practice speedrun.

Alright, that should help~

Haha, let's see if I can reach Sekibanki again. >_> I still fared better in IN than DDC somehow.

I blame SakuyaB. And Wakasagihime being a bigger jerk than Wriggle.

[Renne]

well I'll try IN with your advice now before I go to sleep. Unless this nausea get worse. >_>

[Renne]

reposting just in case shirley didn't get this because this is really important to know starting out

I did

[Integrity]

Wriggle is one of the worst characters

twilight fades; day breaks

one stands at the precipice

never forgiven

[Zak Something]

It LOOKS manageable, yes. But it's harder than it looks because of how small the gaps are and how the bullets move and overlap. I never actually captured it, even.

right but you're missing the part where thats literally how every spellcard seems to me sooooooo... >.>

[ZemZem]

SA Lunatic isn't hard at all. One of the easier Lunatics, honestly. ReimuA or ReimuC and you're good to go.

twilight fades; day breaks

one stands at the precipice

never forgiven

She'll go up on my sorter, okay? She's not one of the worst characters. ;w; She's actually one of the better Stage 1 bosses, too, from a fighting standpoint. And she has Unseasonable Butterfly Storm. Plz forgive Integ-sama

[Zak Something]

true facts I had an easier time with SA than UFO. as in "i beat UFO the first time I made it to Stage 6 on SA whereas it took me 2-3 times to beat Bakaboyusaran.

then again im an easymodo bitchass so my experiences and opinions mean absolutely nothing.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Zak Something

[Magical Glace]

I still need to do SA Normal

...When I'm not lazy.

[かベリー]

I still need to do SA Normal

...When I'm not lazy.

wow scrub

Also, hhhhHHHH I WOULD KILL A PERSON TO BE AS GOOD AS HEMO AND THEIR SPRITES. ; W ;