New ~Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Zak Something]

that second one wasn't even me being dismissive or anything, that Koishi spellcard literally looks like a lot of other cards and is probably something I could rig doing. forgive me i'm not very good at words.

and for the first part just ignore me like everyone does

[Zak Something]

Parsee broke the bridge?

[かベリー]

I chose 9 videos with Cirno's theme and some remixes and tried playing them at the same time and I think I heard what the ninth circle of Hell sounds like.

fuck they're 8, not 9 why

Edited July 12, 2016 by Floral Pattern

[ZemZem]

oh come on don't tell me it's one of the easier lunatics

pcb, in, mof, td, hell even ddc with it's ridiculous resource spamming should occupy that spot as the easier ones.

if ufo, lolk or eosd didn't exist there's plenty of people would say SA is the toughest touhou game

Hmm, from my experiences, I found EoSD the most annoying to 1cc on Lunatic. Mainly because I kept dying with bombs in stock and the input lag annoyed me a hell of a ton. XD After I 1cced it for the first time I did it twice more no problem.

PCB wasn't very tough at all. SakuyaB especially makes a joke of the mode.

IN is definitely one of the easier ones. I hate the game and hardly play it, yet I can deal with its patterns decently well.

MoF is in the same boat as PCB and IN in being pretty easy. Just be sure to manage your power well.

SA...maybe I'm just weird. I 1cced its Lunatic really fast (my second Lunatic 1cc after MoF) since ReimuC's bomb is really OP. Because of that I could feasibly bombskip shit. Hell, I fucked up Rin's fight and entered Stage 6 with no lives iirc. Or like, one. Still 1cced because Okuu is immensely easier after Peta Flare.

UFO is self-explanatory. Tough game. Iirc I didn't have too much trouble with it due to having a lot of UFO practice and knowledge, though.

TD was fairly tame.

DDC ^

LoLK is just bombspam. Due to this, it's not very hard to clear its Lunatic.

[ZemZem]

SA bombs aren't bad at all.

ReimuA's bomb doesn't do the most damage, but it screenclears and the duration is pretty lengthy. Plus it's really good for bombgrazing.

ReimuB's bomb is better on Hard/Lunatic, since the amount of damage it does depends on how many bullets enter the radius. Due to this, this is probably the strongest bomb to use against a good number of Utsuho's patterns.

ReimuC's bomb is practically a homage to MoF bombs, haha. When you use it, get on top of the boss for great damage. Helps that the options add onto it.

MarisaA's bomb does its highest damage when used pointblank. When used correctly, a couple of these babies can bombskip almost anything. When used far away, it doesn't really do much.

MarisaB's bomb is also a pointblank one. And when used in conjunction with 3 power Wood Sign, you have a powerful weapon in your arsenal. When used far away, it sucks. Same case as MarisaA.

MarisaC's bomb is basically a beta of DDC!SakuyaA's bomb. It's a shame it's in the wrong kind of game, since it doesn't go too well with the power = bombs mechanic. At least when used during a spellcard, it doesn't count as a failed one.

Check this out, fam: http://wikiwiki.jp/thk/?%C3%CF%2FPlayer

Edited July 12, 2016 by Zeems

[Scarlet]

At long range, Fire Sign hits harder than Ayayaya when both are at Lv4. Ayayaya's back shots reign supreme for Lv3 though. I'm not sure how the heck Ayayaya is easier to use though. Patchy destroys stages with that Water Sign really smoothly, while Ayayaya has to constantly worry about shot positioning with every freaking movement she makes. And she still doesn't attain Water Sign level of spread, which gives her a harder time with stages. Ayayaya does have the best bomb in SA, as well as the best Lv3 damage output for most scenarios, and I can certainly understand why some players may prefer her over Patchy, but I would not say that Ayayaya is definitively better than Patchy. They play very differently, and their relative viability depends entirely on the player's own playstyle and comfort imo. At the very least, I definitely find Patchy > Ayayaya for me, and I know others who have the opposite preference.

Aya's aim remains fixed while you're in focus mode, so both adjusting your aim and keeping it fixed is simple, even during boss fights. Water sign may have a lot of spread, but it's terribly weak and thus not a good choice for boss battles. Also, Water Sign doesn't fire sideways or backwards, so in order to deal with enemies from there, you have to cycle all the way through your five shots each time (and god help you if you accidently cycle too far). Aya can just unfocus, adjust her aim, re-focus if needed and be done with it.

Aya doesn't have much spread, but her shot type is so absurdly flexible that she honestly doesn't need it.

On Hard, I would almost always bomb during the stage portions and likely once during Yamame's final spell. Stage 2 are Parsee are tame enough that I can recover before Stage 3. Lunatic may be a different story though...

It's worth practicing the stage portion of Stage 1 until you can do it bombless. Just play it safe; I know from experience that trying to supergraze the large fairies is tempting, but if you just want to 1cc the game, you don't have much of a reason to.

But when you DO know when you do want to attempt it, it works amazingly. I think that's great because it's very difficult to succeed in SA without having clear plans on how to deal with everything, regardless of what shot type you're using. The classic approach of "try dodging everything, bomb when you're in danger" is not sufficient for SA imo unless your raw dodging skills are really good, so it's not what I'd recommend for players trying to get their first clear on a mode.

Well, reflex-based dodging works for me, so that's what I do. :V

But Water Sign definitely makes stage portions a lot easier, so she has no issues there. Only Alice can really compete with Patchy in that aspect, but Alice has other annoying issues.

You seriously underestimate Aya's flexibility. If you react quickly to where enemies show up (or simply know it), Aya can shoot them down just as quickly as (or sometimes even more quickly than) Water Sign.

SA Lunatic isn't hard at all. One of the easier Lunatics, honestly. ReimuA or ReimuC and you're good to go.

I think your NB shenanigans may have skewed your perception of difficulty. The main reason SA Lunatic (or SA in general, really) is so difficult is that the player is very weak compared to most other games - bombs not even coming close to skipping a spellcard can seriously ruin your day if you just can't deal with any particular spellcard. In other non-Extras, you can rely on bombs as a get-out-of-jail-free card, but SA won't have any of it.

If you don't use bombs to begin with? Sure, Stage 1 aside, the stages are pretty tame and the boss patterns aren't too difficult if you can deal with them flawlessly for, in some cases, upwards of 30 seconds (and this just gets worse if you actually bomb and thus lose Power).

Personally, one of the reasons I do so well in MoF and SA compared to something like TD Lunatic is that the Power = Bombs system is very forgiving of small, individual mistakes.

also I had an lol moment with sa today.

I went into sa stage 2 and the music stopped playing. never came on. went to parsee. still didn't come on.

then I killed her, and instead of moving to stage 3, I just got stuck in place. I could still move around, there was just nothing on the screen.

Sounds to me like the game/ your PC froze; it seems to load the entire current stage into RAM, so you won't notice until it tries to load new data. I've had the same happen to me before, except my computer usually un-freezes after a minute or two.

Hmm, from my experiences, I found EoSD the most annoying to 1cc on Lunatic. Mainly because I kept dying with bombs in stock and the input lag annoyed me a hell of a ton. XD After I 1cced it for the first time I did it twice more no problem.

EoSD Lunatic actually may be one of the easiest if you manage to do very well in the first four stages, as the Rank system can actually work in your favor at that point. It helps that due to the way shots in this game work, bosses in this game are super-suspectible to shotgunning and can thus often be dispatched very quickly.

MoF is in the same boat as PCB and IN in being pretty easy. Just be sure to manage your power well.

MoF is honestly pretty hard in theory, it's just that the player is stupidly overpowered in this game. So yeah, bomb spam makes it managable.

[ZemZem]

I think your NB shenanigans may have skewed your perception of difficulty. The main reason SA Lunatic (or SA in general, really) is so difficult is that the player is very weak compared to most other games - bombs not even coming close to skipping a spellcard can seriously ruin your day if you just can't deal with any particular spellcard. In other non-Extras, you can rely on bombs as a get-out-of-jail-free card, but SA won't have any of it.

If you don't use bombs to begin with? Sure, Stage 1 aside, the stages are pretty tame and the boss patterns aren't too difficult if you can deal with them flawlessly for, in some cases, upwards of 30 seconds (and this just gets worse if you actually bomb and thus lose Power).

Personally, one of the reasons I do so well in MoF and SA compared to something like TD Lunatic is that the Power = Bombs system is very forgiving of small, individual mistakes.

EoSD Lunatic actually may be one of the easiest if you manage to do very well in the first four stages, as the Rank system can actually work in your favor at that point. It helps that due to the way shots in this game work, bosses in this game are super-suspectible to shotgunning and can thus often be dispatched very quickly.

MoF is honestly pretty hard in theory, it's just that the player is stupidly overpowered in this game. So yeah, bomb spam makes it managable.

Yeah, I'd say my perception is definitely skewed, but I'm doing my best to leave that kind of stuff out of helping people here. It's true that during a lot of SA when going for a first Lunatic 1cc, you're going to be at a lower power for a lot of the time. That's why I feel using the most powerful bomb would do some good work, or at least a shot with good forward focus. ReimuC has the bomb, and ReimuA has the power. If only they were combined...then again, that'd be like playing MoF ReimuB.

Power = Bombs is a neat system. I like it, but I can understand why others don't.

Yeah, EoSD's first three stages are quite simple. There's a spike in Stage 4, but you'll be fine as long as you don't die/screw up too much. Stage 5 is pretty tame and Sakuya isn't so bad aside from her first non and Killing Doll. Then there's Remi...and she's pretty dangerous. Especially the Meister/Gensokyo combo. Be utmost careful at that point.

MoF's patterns are actually on the easier side of the spectrum aside from a couple suspects, but yes, bombs in this game are very powerful and the game gives you plenty of lives to work with. Not to mention the game throws power at you.

[Iceflare]

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=40881

here's a typical enough sa run for me if anyone wants to see my playstyle/critique/help/insult

Eh, I don't know how useful this will be.

Stage 1

You seem to have this figured out for the most part.

Stage 2

I'm not sure why that clipdeath on the stage opener happened. If you were trying to autocollect power, it's too risky and not worth it. You can get more power from the 3 yin-yang orbs right before the midboss (speedkill them and they won't cause problems).

Instead of moving out of the way on Tongue-Cut Sparrow, consider withholding your fire. It's less risky in terms of taking a million bubbles to the face, and a little more damage won't help significantly anyway.

Bombing on Midnight Anathema Ritual is acceptable.

Stage 3

I think you handled the stage section fairly well. I'm not complaining about two bombs post-midboss because I did that as well.

Bombing Yuugi's nonspells is generally fine, although that would probably be a death sentence in terms of power loss. You should aim to capture all her spell cards, however (except Mt Ooe, depending on how it treats you). In addition, you might want to consider learning Yuugi's last nonspell (at least for me, moving upwards is preferable to letting the bullets rain on you).

You want to die at most once on stage 3.

Stage 4

The stage section was pretty decent IMO, just... bombing is preferable to clipping on the lasers, I guess.

Satori's nonspells aren't terrible, but they are clippy. In addition, if you have the patience, Hypnotism can be captured pretty consistently with the same movements each time (but you might want to bomb once for safety on an actual run). That being said, try to save some of your power for DBDB and Flying Insect's Nest. Entering BoWaP with at least 1 power is preferable as you can bomb to position yourself for the safespot.

Stage 5

The red wisps on the opener drop power. If you're low on power you should kill at least some of them, the streamable bullets should autocollect the power for you. Going pacifist on that section is rather pointless, since they don't drop anything otherwise and the bullets are streamable either way.

That also applies to going pacifist on the yin-yang orb section. If you're in need of power, fire in bursts and autocollect the items by streaming. It's not much, but it helps sometimes.

Entering midboss Orin with 2.xx power is pretty ok.

I was going to put a bunch of stuff I did here, but that wouldn't be very appropriate placement would it.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Iceflare

[ZemZem]

No, do it.

[Robert Stewart]

So the fad is dying again, huh.

[Iceflare]

No, do it.

But... oh, fine. Whatever. It's nothing much anyway, and I don't wanna sound like I'm showing off or anything.

SA Extra scrubclear (ReimuA; 90FPS)

SA Extra Perfect (ReimuA; 60FPS)

PCB Phantasm scrubclear (SakuyaA; 75FPS)

[ZemZem]

Join the Extra NMNB club~

[Robert Stewart]

welp

[ZemZem]

Good news: Okuu is significantly easier than Orin.

[ZemZem]

wha happen?

[Integrity]

Wriggle is one of the worst characters

throws door open, runs into room panting, sweating

shit i almost forgot to remind you today that you're bad

[ZemZem]

Integ PLEASE

Just low amounts of progress.

when I don't die to yamame, it's parsee, when I don't die to parsee it's yuugi, when it's not yuugi its satori.

I feel like I barely have any control over my runs at this point. Things go right on practice stage, only for it on flop in actual runs.

Assuming I don't just waste my hours of practice dying to stage 1

Sounds like today's a bad day

[ZemZem]

Oh well eventually I'll get a run where everything goes right, it's statistically impossible for it not to happen.

That's how I 1cc'd sa last time

Idk if this will be helpful, but: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=39501

The only SA Lunatic 1cc I've done with ReimuA.

[Scarlet]

Things go right on practice stage, only for it on flop in actual runs.

That's unsurprising. When you practice a stage, you only have to worry about one stage at a time (obviously) rather than six, and there's no pressure to do well, so you'll less easily be panicked.

I know it's easier said than done, but just try to take it easy. Try to keep your expectations low - if you don't expect to do perfectly, you'll feel less pressure and, as a result, probably do better (ironically).

[ZemZem]

Thanks but I already have that one.

Is it helpful in any way, I hope?

[ZemZem]

Good mindset~

[Integrity]

Wriggle is one of the worst characters

instead of thinking of a cool way to bully you, i'm going to spend the effort writing for my lp. we're cool today. :)

[ZemZem]

:)

[Scarlet]

I can absolutely understand Stage 1, but what exactly is giving you trouble in Stage 2? I found Stage 2 to be pretty trivial even on Lunatic.

[Tao]

So

EoSD finally loaded for me. Or maybe it's starting to load for me again. And. I'm getting my ass kicked by Cirno. \o/ At the second part or phase or whatever.

If anyone asks me what difficult I'm playing on, I'll shoot them in the crotch.