New ~Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Scarlet]

Any general tips???

Playing on normal mode

Try to get a general understanding of how scoring works, even if you're not really interested in going for any crazy highscores, as you'll need to be at the very least competent at scoring if you want to get any score-based Extends whatsoever. 45 million points is kind of a feat on Normal mode.

An easy way to get to 20 million points to get at least one of the two Extends is to go to Stage C-2 (the volcano) at Rank 3 while your Item Counter is at 1000. Activate Power Up mode as soon as you get to the first hole that spews out rocks and just keep killing rocks until Power Up mode runs out.

Other than that, be mindful of what Rank you choose for what stage. Higher Ranks are much better for scoring, so if you can handle the pressure without taking damage, it may be worth it to have a shot at the 45 million Extend. Some stages also actually have minor healing items hidden in them if you visit them at exactly the correct Rank, so try to plan your route accordingly. Just avoid picking Rank 3 five or more times or you'll enter Death Mode, which is basically what Arranged Mode puts you into from the very beginning (that is, bullet speed increases and every enemy you kill will fire an insane amount of suicide bullets at you).

Also, it's better to be fairly liberal with your bombs than to sit on them until you get hit. Just like in Touhou, losing a life resets your bombs to 3 (1 in Arranged Mode) no matter how many you had before, so use them while you have them. If you find yourself in a pinch and you're not sure you can make it out without taking a hit, just bomb (bombing during a stage kills your score, but it's still better than taking a hit). They actually do pretty respectable damage to bosses, too.

Note that only taking "half" damage doesn't count as dying and thus doesn't reset your bombs, so if you can memorize which enemies/projectiles do full damage and which ones don't, you might be able to afford taking some risks here and there. Personally, I've noticed that, oddly enough, touching an enemy directly often only does half damage while getting hit by a bullet will almost always deal full damage.

Also note that you can block suicide bullets (the yellow ones) using your familiar, so keep in mind how your familiar moves in relation to your own movement (it's different for each character and whether or not you focus). In fact, blocking suicide bullets actually raises your Item Counter, which not only increases your score (obviously), but also allows you to enter Power Up mode more often, so keep that in mind.

If you don't insist on playing as any particular character, Rosa is probably the strongest in Normal Mode while still being easy to use. Follett does just slightly less damage, but has a very short range and is thus quite difficult to use. Windia is pretty versatile and easy to use, but not quite as good as Rosa. Casper is just kinda bad (but probably still easier to 1cc as than as Follett).

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Death smiles at us all

Lolis smile back

[Scarlet]

Death smiles at us all

Lolis smile back

I'm pretty sure I've read that quote before. :V

The last level looks completely ridiculous though...

Aye, it's definitely a step up in difficulty compared to the normal stages, especially if you aren't comfortable doing them at Rank 3. A well-timed Power Up mode or two can really make a big difference, though.

While I'm at it, there are two more things I should note about Power Up mode: entering it cancels all bullets currently on-screen and turns them into score items, which can be really helpful (especially in that last stage). Also, while I did advise you to be liberal with bombs, avoid bombing during Power Up mode if you can help it, as doing so will cancel it almost immediately.

[ZemZem]

why is devil's recitation so hard

[Scarlet]

why is devil's recitation so hard

You're NMNBing the game on Lunatic and of all things, that's what's giving you trouble? Are you for real? :V

I'm finding in general the difficulty of this game is less dodging bullet patterns (though there certainly is that) but more, smart positioning, and figuring out the order of enemies to kill.

Yeah, I agree. It's less pronounced in Normal Mode, but particularly in Black Label Mode you absolutely want to spend as much time in Power Up mode as possible, and figuring out how to accomplish just that is probably among the most important steps to get better at the game.

non-touhou shmups fuck me up so hard :/

To be fair, Deathsmiles is really freaking stingy when it comes to Extends, making it extremely unforgiving. Wasting a single life's worth of bombs through an unforeseen death can be enough to doom an otherwise good run.

[Magical Glace]

I 1cc'd BoSM Normal, video uploading right now.

[Magical Glace]

Whee

[ZemZem]

You're NMNBing the game on Lunatic and of all things, that's what's giving you trouble? Are you for real? :V

Take a look at Lunatic Devil's Recitation. It's one of the few reasons NMNB is hard. XD

I actually have a pretty good capture percentage at it, but it'd be foolish of me to take it lightly.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Zeems

[fengaridotdll]

Random confession I used the infinite lives mode, so now I'm going to try to 1cc it normally with SanaeA because I really like SanaeA. Could be a while until I 1cc though, I died like 76 times on my first run.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Crystalized Silver

[ZemZem]

It's just ironic to think, conidering you rarely really ever complain about the difficulty of UFO lunatic, but all of a sudden it dawns on you that the hardest spell on the final boss of the hardest touhou game on the hardest difficulty might actually be a little but unreasonable.

I can see why that'd be silly. xD

[Magical Glace]

Random confession I used the infinite lives mode, so now I'm going to try to 1cc it normally with SanaeA because I really like SanaeA. Could be a while until I 1cc though, I died like 76 times on my first run.

It's actually called Triforce Legendary Hero mode.

...

[Scarlet]

Take a look at Lunatic Devil's Recitation. It's one of the few reasons NMNB is hard. XD

Now that's just kind of a low blow, considering I can't even make it there because UFO Lunatic is fucking impossible. xD

[ZemZem]

Well, I mean that for Byakuren, not the whole game! The whole game has some mean things.

[Zak Something]

top 10 non-spinoff non-phantasmagoria schmup Lunatic Modes in touhou Edited October 16, 2016 by Zak Something

[ZemZem]

ZM what are the top 5 hardest lunatic modes in touhou iyo

Hmm. I'd say LoLK, EoSD, and UFO for sure, assuming LNB. The other two? Really not sure, as I find the others pretty close together in difficulty. Now for LNN, IN would definitely be in the top five, but for NB it's one of the easier ones, iirc. So I'm pretty conflicted. So I'll have DDC and SA as the other two. They both can be dickish.

[Magical Glace]

Why's IN so difficult to LNN compared to the others?

My guess is Hourai Jewel being a bitch.

[Magical Glace]

Hourai Elixir super tight gaps.

(unless we're not doing no LS fails?)

[Scarlet]

Hmm. I'd say LoLK, EoSD, and UFO for sure, assuming LNB.

Huh? I'm honestly surprised to see EoSD on there. I found both EoSD Lunatic and PCB Lunatic to be really tame compared to most of the later games, and they're both the closest I've come to 1ccing any Lunatic mode that isn't MoF's or PoFV's.

[Scarlet]

oh @scarlet what's the score amount needed to get the 1 Up in deathsmiles?

I got one today but I didn't keep note of what score I was at.

It's different depending on what game mode you're playing. iirc, on Normal, it's 20 million for the first Extend and 45 million for the second. The title screen shows you the precise scores you need to get.

[Magical Glace]

Yeah I'm personally hopeless at EoSD. Iggy, a friend of mine from another site, was quick to note when watching that BoSM that I basically memorized a lot of the stages.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Scarlet]

I saw EoSD ranked as like the #3 hardest lunatic mode at MotK.

The people over there have... interesting opinions sometimes.

For instance, I also recall Lunatic Scarlet Meister being hyped up to be the most difficult thing in the entirety of EoSD and I captured it on my first try. It's basically just a slightly spammier version of one of Remilia's rather trivial nonspells.

But LNN should be an important factor, and because of rank EoSD seems insane to LNN

Sure, how difficult it is to perfect a game should be a factor, but the games do give you resources to use (quite a lot in some cases), so it seems absurd to just disregard those entirely. If we did, MoF would border on ridiculous; it easily has some of the hardest spellcards in the series. Even freaking PCB would actually be kind of difficult.

And Rank also works the other way - if you manage to NMNB the first three stages in EoSD or Mystic Square (not too difficult in either case), the Rank reduction upon death takes off quite a bit of pressure for a while, effectively making your resources last longer. The effect is kind of ridiculously strong, to be honest; for instance, MAX Rank Patchouli on Hard/Lunatic is kind of tricky, but if you die shortly before the battle, literally the entire fight becomes rather trivial.

What are the other modes btw

- Normal: What you've been playing so far.

- Normal v1.1: What is generally known as Arranged Mode. Uses a different, much more strict scoring system, only gives you 1 bomb per life (rather than 3), and puts you into Death Mode from the very beginning, which causes bullets to be much faster and enemies to release tons of suicide bullets upon death (which are a large factor in scoring in this mode). Ridiculously difficult compared to the normal game.

- Mega Black Label: Basically an expansion of the original game. Has an extra playable character (Sakura), a second Extra Stage, allows you to enter a half-length Power Up mode as soon as your Item Counter hits 500, a new difficulty level, rebalances the playable characters and is generally a bit more difficult than Normal mode, but not to the same insane degree as Arranged Mode.

- Mega Black Label v1.1: Mega Black Label Arranged Mode. Affects Mega Black Label mode in a similar fashion to the original game as far as I could tell when I tried it. In other words, it's completely and utterly insane. Just take a look at the score requirements for the Extends; as far as I recall, they're 300 million points for the first Extend and 10 billion for the second.

- Arcade: I haven't actually played it, but supposedly it's just a lower resolution version of Normal Mode.

- Arcade v1.1: I haven't actually played it, but supposedly it's just a lower resolution version of Normal Arranged Mode.

[ZemZem]

Five-miss LNB I just did for DRC almost an hour ago. Would've been a max resource finish if I didn't get cucked at Good Omen. =w=;

Oh well, my goal of only 5 mistakes for the tournament was obtained, so I'm okay with it.

Replay if anyone cares: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=41749

Why's IN so difficult to LNN compared to the others?

For an IN LNN to be considered a full-fledged LNN, all spells need to be captured. Even the bonus ones. Failing just one of those is a pain.

An IN LNN that went to Final A has 33 spells to capture, while Final B has 37.

My guess is Hourai Jewel being a bitch.

Hourai Jewel is the least of one's problems. First spell and second spell are scarier due to RNG, while Hourai Jewel is pure memo. And then there's Rising World, which has a really tense final few seconds.

Hourai Elixir super tight gaps.

(unless we're not doing no LS fails?)

Yep, no LS fails.

Huh? I'm honestly surprised to see EoSD on there. I found both EoSD Lunatic and PCB Lunatic to be really tame compared to most of the later games, and they're both the closest I've come to 1ccing any Lunatic mode that isn't MoF's or PoFV's.

EoSD LNB is one of the tougher LNBs for a variety of reasons:

-Books

-Patchy's one of the toughest Stage 4 bosses in the series

-Sakuya's first non can be an asshole

-Killing Doll

-Meek (assuming no safespot)

-Remilia as a whole. She can be very unpredictable. The Meister/Scarlet Gensokyo combination is a brutal one for sure.

In regards to just 1ccing, EoSD Lunatic isn't that bad at all, due to having a lot of bombs to work with. But without those bombs, the game has a good number of hellish patterns.

I saw EoSD ranked as like the #3 hardest lunatic mode at MotK.

I think it depends a lot on your personal strengths as a player.

But LNN should be an important factor, and because of rank EoSD seems insane to LNN

Even some patterns at low rank can be very dangerous.

[Scarlet]

-Books

Well, yeah, I can see that. I do usually just bomb those. xD

-Patchy's one of the toughest Stage 4 bosses in the series

Honestly, I disagree. Even at MAX Rank. Her patterns are pretty dense, but all very simple.

Personally, I consider the Prismrivers, IN Marisa and the Tsukomo Sisters significantly harder. Probably Aya too, as easy as her nonspells may be.

-Sakuya's first non can be an asshole

I'd be lying if I said I didn't get walled by it on occassion, so yeah, I can see why it'd be a pain to deal with in NMNB.

-Killing Doll

What, why

-Meek (assuming no safespot)

I'll give you that one. Eternal Meek is terrifying. xD

-Remilia as a whole. She can be very unpredictable. The Meister/Scarlet Gensokyo combination is a brutal one for sure.

That sounds like people rely far too much on memorization, to the point they lose the ability to improvise. Remi's patterns are, while not static, all quite simple. imo she's the easiest Stage 6 boss in the series aside from Miko.

In regards to just 1ccing, EoSD Lunatic isn't that bad at all, due to having a lot of bombs to work with. But without those bombs, the game has a good number of hellish patterns.

I wouldn't exactly call 27 bombs total "a lot" by Touhou standards... Only MS, TD and UFO give you less.

[ZemZem]

Well, yeah, I can see that. I do usually just bomb those. xD

Honestly, I disagree. Even at MAX Rank. Her patterns are pretty dense, but all very simple.

Personally, I consider the Prismrivers, IN Marisa and the Tsukomo Sisters significantly harder. Probably Aya too, as easy as her nonspells may be.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't get walled by it on occassion, so yeah, I can see why it'd be a pain to deal with in NMNB.

What, why

I'll give you that one. Eternal Meek is terrifying. xD

That sounds like people rely far too much on memorization, to the point they lose the ability to improvise. Remi's patterns are, while not static, all quite simple. imo she's the easiest Stage 6 boss in the series aside from Miko.

I wouldn't exactly call 27 bombs total "a lot" by Touhou standards... Only MS, TD and UFO give you less.

Which shot do you use for EoSD? Patchy's not very simple, since some of her patterns are genuinely difficult, like Emerald Megalith and Sylphae Horn.

Prismrivers and IN Marisa are definitely easier than Patchy, while Aya is probably equal, if not a little harder.

...Killing Doll is terrifying. It can be a major annoyance to capture if Sakuya's movement RNG doesn't cooperate, and the pattern's denseness in conjunction with EoSD hitboxes make it even worse. It's considered one of the hardest spells in the game for good reason just because of how unpredictable it is, and some even consider it the hardest (cactu even says so, and he's the best EoSD player in the world perhaps).

>Remilia

>one of the easiest Stage 6 final bosses on Lunatic

Hold on a sec. That's hardly true. Remilia's randomness in her patterns is what makes her one of the hardest final bosses. Vampire Illusion and Scarlet Gensokyo can wall you if they feel like it, Meister's very fast-paced and not trivial by any means, and even YDL can be nasty. There's no way a final boss like Utsuho or Shinmyoumaru is easier than her.

27 bombs is a lot, yeah. That's more than enough to get through the game with, especially since I doubt one would use all of them on every pattern in the game since the majority of spells in the first three stages are easy.

Agreed on MS. UFO can actually give a lot of bombs if you go for a green route, while TD can also give a lot if you know where to trance and bomb.

[Aquasword12]

Speaking of IN LNN being difficult...

Getting all 37 caps is hard lol. I only managed 36 here...