Batmafia!!! Game Over

[Refa]

Sorry I just got on but Elie is (most likely) confirmed town. I'll say more later but playing Smash.

##Unvote

[Shin]

You might have to explain that one bro, I'm not following the gravy train on this one.

[Shin]

If it's because of his role not deactivating, I can understand, but we don't know that for certain!

[Refa]

If it's because of his role not deactivating, I can understand, but we don't know that for certain!

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Okay, so I'm ruling out the possibility of a two man scumteam because that seems really dumb for a 16 player game (okay, so does a three man scumteam but there can't really be any more at this point). So, if there are two scum left, then the numbers are 6/2 right? So it'd be LYLO if Elieson was scum AND he's not lying about his role. But let's say he is lying about his role and we mislynch (worst case scenario) and someone gets nightkilled blah blah blah. Then, tomorrow we can have him vote (and unvote immediately after requesting votals, uh...okay, I guess that would be a little risky if he was town but he just has to be on at the same time as the mods and it shouldn't be a big problem) and prove his role. If it works, then he's confirmed town. If it fails, we lynch him boys. Really the only issue with this is 1) if there is a two man scum team or 2) if there's no other way to secure a lynch (normally this wouldn't be a problem but w/such stellar activity, it should be).

So uh...yeah, lemme know if I'm completely missing something here. I'm going out to get something to eat, I'll be back in roughly an hour and will finish my post and make an updated vote (thinking Shin/Dreamer but I haven't read the last two pages). I'd probably lynch Baldrick over Elie at this point as well if I was forced to consolidate.

[Refa]

In retrospect, saying confirmed town was completely misleading. It's more like "his alignment will become incredibly obvious".

[Baldrick]

Yeah, given how close he was to being hammered before, he doesn't have much to lose by lying about it not deactivating.

[Baldrick]

FUCK I forgot to mention spiderman. Spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman.

[Shin]

Considering Dreamer's lack of interactions with other people and me still feeling pretty good about Baldrick, I'd probably be happy to consolidate Dreamer.

[Baldrick]

@Refa: didn't you say before you thought my latest post was scummy for lacking content? If you haven't read the last two pages, what are you referring to?

Spiderman is cool because of webslingers.

[Dreamer]

Shin, could you still answer my question? Did you rollclaim Pr-giver?

[Shin]

Shin, could you still answer my question? Did you rollclaim Pr-giver?

Yes I did. For those who couldn't quite grasp the subtlety of my powers, I posted a picture referring to 60's Spiderman. I also said that Baldrick will have a SWINGING time. These are before he posted. However, I don't quite get why that is more relevant than anything that's currently being discussed.

[Baldrick]

@Dreamer; I've been given a PR where I have to talk about spiderman, it's a good PR because spiderman is the coolest meme ever. Shin posted a spiderman pic in thread at the beginning of the day. He was demonstrating he knew about it beforehand, which is pretty much claiming to be responsible for it.

@Refa: a possible 2-man scumteam shouldn't be a problem because MYLO/LYLO is announced. It seems logical, the only problem I have is that it's trying to game the setup, and any unknown elements could cause the plan to backfire.

[Baldrick]

Dreamer's struck me as newbtown, they seem to get the process of scumhunting by trying to develop their reads through questioning, but not quite knowing the right questions to ask or how to follow through with them. I also don't see anything suspicious in their tiny interaction. I'm not terribly excited about it tbh.

What I am excited about is spiderman! especially the mem of him in the sixties. Wait, swinging sixties, I just got it. Curse you shin.

[Refa]

I return! Doing some replies before I look at the last two pages again.

@Refa: didn't you say before you thought my latest post was scummy for lacking content? If you haven't read the last two pages, what are you referring to?

I skimmed through them and read through yours and Elies' posts before submitting (because a large part of my content was based on both of your posts). It'd be pretty bullshit of me to be like "Baldrick isn't addressing other content despite it not actually existing" which is how I read most of your earlier posts with. What are your thoughts on the last two pages? Did any of your reads change? Why or why not?

Shin, could you still answer my question? Did you rollclaim Pr-giver?

Thoughts on the rest of the game?

@Refa: a possible 2-man scumteam shouldn't be a problem because MYLO/LYLO is announced. It seems logical, the only problem I have is that it's trying to game the setup, and any unknown elements could cause the plan to backfire.

Fair enough. It seemed like a design flaw to have a mayor who could become confirmed town on MYLO/LYLO, which is why I brought it up in the first place because breaking games is fun. I still don't think Elie is lying about his mayor (because it'd be horrible to become confirmed scum the next day even if that was the best play he could make at the time) but maybe there's something else that's balancing it (like him not being able to vote the same person twice in MYLO/LYLO or that sort of thing).

[Dreamer]

Shin, could you explain this?

I also have mod confirmed info that Green Poet is town, make this of what you will.

Because Gaius and you do have the same roll, was it green poet who gave you this message?

[Refa]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57975&page=23#entry4121447

Pay more attention to the people you NK next time

[Dreamer]

Thoughts on the rest of the game?

Elieson: He was very confident so i'm inclined to believe that he is town

Shin: On this moment, i think i’ll make him my number one scumread. I think that the answer on my question can make it or break it.

Baldrick: He has some scum-points now. But as i stated earlier, i don’t think Baldrick and Shin are scum together. I think that Shin is more important now.

Sniper knight ( i almost said Super Knight, again ): She is almost confirmed town by now.

Yoloswag and Refa has te same thing.

JB: He didn’t say a lot, so there is not a lot to work with. He is on my scumlist to.

Other thoughts:

I can understand the NK, because it don’t say anything except for things a lot of people already suspected. But i can not help it to be wondered why they didn’t go with a more dagerous player like Sniper Knight.

Did anyone claim messenger already? I remember a message that Refa got during the first night. Or did Green Poet send it to you/him?

[Refa]

Nah, I'm just ILL.

But are you FULLY SICK?

i could imagine scum!baldrick playing with the idea that tiny was going to be lynched d3, given how tiny became a potential lynch target near the end of d2 iirc? and so bussing the everloving shit out of her before mancer got lynched as a happy little accident. it's... not the worst idea in the world. especially when you consider baldrick's response of "yeah her responses were ok but she's still my biggest scumread so im still voting for her". like... who can argue with that logic?

also what the fuck is an agent that sounds absolutely useless

---

still feel like ##Vote: Elie is the best choice. really not feeling the mancer hammer especially since as mayor you literally could have waited until like 1 min before deadline to hammer it on your own?

I'm confused, why are you voting Elieson? Even if you believe his use of his role was suboptimal (I'd argue it wasn't, especially considering how dire the consequences are for a forced NL), what makes that scummier than what you said about Baldrick (actually, what makes it scummy at all)?

@Yolo are your reasons for voting dreamer still based on your D2 contentpost (waffling on Diego)? Also here you said you wanted Dreamer dead if TG flipped town, but TG flipped scum, so...

@Refa are you still on board with a fullclaim from everybody?

Would like an answer to that first question as well. I figured YOLO would townread Dreamer if TG flipped scum, but he's still scumreading her anyways and I have no idea why that is. Also yeah, I'm still on board with a fullclaim from everyone. Who hasn't claimed again?

I'd like to hear a little more from people, especially those who haven't posted this phase, although the fact nobody's appeared to hammer Eli is somewhat reassuring. Plus, I want to see Baldrick post for my own amusement.

This comment confuses me. Why would anyone hammer Elie on the day before MYLO/LYLO?

Ahh I'm sorry I'm alive also I was roleblocked

I'm still thinking Dreamer since a lot of her actions and Tiny's actions would make more sense if they were working together, but for the sake of a lynch,

##Vote: Elieson

(what's L-1 I can't find it on the FAQ)

Just read this, so chances are that the roleblocker is scum. In that case, I'm fairly sure that Dreamer is scum as well (possibly the roleblocker, in fact) considering what I said above? Would like some additional thoughts on this because noone has done so (because they're all donezo).

Man Sniper, I'm still fairly sure that you're town despite the above vote considering your role and the lack of other investigative claims (oh...and Tiny claiming to have used her decoy on you) but don't make careless votes like this in the future unless there are <24 hours left (in which case yeah, vote whoever you think is most likely to flip scum).

Town:

Yolo, Super Knight, Refa

Shin: The main reason i’m townreading you is because of lord Gaius. But i don’t understand your rollclaim. I could not find a spider man treat either. Could you, or someone else, futher explain it?

Potential scum:

Baldrick: I was townreading him, but i’m not so sure now, because his reaction to Eliesons case is a bit overreacted. I understand that he don’t like it, but if he is scumreading him, why would he put so much time to defend himself?

JB:He is mostly on this because he don’t have a lot of content yet.

Elieson: The votes on Mancer were awful. And you are not very lucky that i’m townreading Refa since te beginning of the game.

On this moment i think that you are my biggest scum read, and thus i would sheep the case on you. Honestly, you are the only one i could vote for this day.

I know it isn’t a lot, but for now i’m happy it is something. When i'm home again i'll probarly make another post.

Sorry, I missed this post when I was asking you for your thoughts on the rest of the game. I can understand the Baldrick read, but surely JB has enough content that you can judge him on? What do you think of his interactions with Tiny? What do you think of Elie's cases today?

Because Spiderman wears a mask that completely covers his face, he appears to always have the same expressionless expression. When put into a ridiculous situation, he acts a straight man. His quiet dignity in the face of shenanigans resonates with all of us, and that's why 60's Spiderman is the dankest of dank memes.

Just like Kaoz, the dankest of dank mafioso's.

If you don't by my explanation then that's your choice. The thing is;

1. I'm town and I wouldn't just appear out of the blue to both defend & hammer a buddy
2. Nobody was around on the developing wagon
3. If I kept voting for Tiny, there is absolutely no reason for me to assume that a lynch would have occurred because nobody was around and my additional vote would not have hammered
4. A No Lynch in any situation other than MYLO is bad for town and I was able to prevent a No Lynch from happening where evidently the only other people around were Refa and Omega at the very very last minute

If this is your case, then ok. Your case on me revolves around the following ideas:

1. If I wanted to not associate myself with a Mislynch, I could have just as easily not switched votes and kept it on Tiny. Hell, I could've just not appeared, and feigned the afk card. Instead, I stuck my neck out to do something to bring info to the game
2. I would have picked the moment of hammering Mancer as the moment to out my role, which as far as I know had been kept secret until this point in time
   1. Speaking of, my role is bad for scum anyway because my vote isn't hidden and therefore I'm immediately tied to any situation like this, but that's GameSpec and is difficult to assess anyway
   2. There would be no benefit to me outing my second vote. If I'm scum, why would I out it [then] instead of pocketing it until a wayyyyyyyy more optimal time?
3. I would have parked a vote on whom you would only be able to assume now is my buddy, and would have also
4. You would have to assume that your votehop on Town!Mancer was founded with great reasoning, which in hindsight was acceptable, but not spectacular, given the flip

Wait, did I miss something? When did you defend Tiny Goddess? I'm fine with all of your other points but I just don't get that one.

Regarding your defense, I don't really buy the first point. Lynching Mancer would be the most optimal move as either alignment, especially with the looming threat of Universal Loss. Why did you think your role was bad for scum if it worked in MYLO/LYLO? Fair enough on not keeping your role hidden, though.

Ninja'd by Eli, I'm really not liking the defensive nature of his double Baldrick vote. Eli's priorities are still jumping about massively, his votes seem to go anywhere depending on who's casing him and what his mood's like.

I'd sheep this. I don't think Dreamer's issues with him were well founded either but it came across as him being irritated with her making a bad case on him over the case itself being scummy.

Elieson, you make things very hard for me. You are wayyyy to confident in your last post, but on a good manner. It made me re-think my opnion about you. Your double vote on Baldrick is also understandable, even though it seems to be very defensive.

Maybe you guys were already thinking this, i don’t care, but i do now higly believe that Baldrick and Elieson can not be scum together.

I also do believe that Shin and Baldrick can not be scum together.

That being said, Dreamer's response to Elie is far more reactionary than his was to her. I dunno, you suddenly deciding to rethink your opinion right after he put you on his scum list again strikes me as opportunistic. He was sure about his Baldrick case way before he made his last post, so why didn't you take that into account before deciding that he was the only person you could vote for today? Who else would you vote for now that you're not scumreading Elieson (AFAIK)?

@dreamer; my two theories on Gaius' post:

1) He thought Tiny and I were scum trying to mislynch town Mancer. If that was the case, why did he continue voting Mancer?

2. He thought Tiny and I were scum bussing Mancer. It's safe to say this is the more outlandish theory, and it needs far more elaboration than "look at Baldrick".

Oh, that's actually...pretty legit. I never thought of that myself.

Basically; Newer players who roll scum are generally either really bad at forcing reads, or just ignore buddies in general because they don't know what to say about them.

Can you outline some for me that aren't [Role]?

Fair enough.

For starters, what do you think of his content that's not related to Tiny? He's made some good points against Shin in particular and I liked his earlier responses to me on D3. I mean, I can get you being confident in your read (and that's fine, good even) but it seems to me that you're picking apart one aspect of his play whilst ignoring the rest. This is more what I meant when I said ignoring reasons that Baldrick could be town; I don't actually want you to be like "oh but this part is townie, so I guess I'm not as sure about him being scum anymore hurr durr I am gay".

I'm still scumreading Elieson but even disregarding his role (I dunno, I get that he wouldn't be confirmed town on MYLO/LYLO but he'd at least be very likely town), I'm not as confident with my case on him (and perhaps more importantly, some of the votes on him) then I do on the following; so with that in mind, I'm just going to follow my heart on this one. Regarding everyone else, Shin's still in the [lynch] circle (sorry, bro) and there's noone else that I'm confident in lynching today (I'd only look at JB if Dreamer/Elie flipped scum just because Shin really doesn't make sense as scum with either of them).

##Vote: Dreamer

PS I should be around for deadline and will thus be able to consolidate if need be.

[Shin]

Shin, could you explain this?

Because Gaius and you do have the same roll, was it green poet who gave you this message?

I received a mod notification in my role PM that Green was town, Mitsuki confirmed it was correct. It was not part of my role and I really don't understand how that has any relevance with the current situation. Why would Gaius announce this as scum though? He would essentially be saying "don't potentially mislynch this person and also protect them at night".

It's really fishy how I've become your top scumread with almost no backing. The town read on Eli for being "confident" is also really bad. I'm not sure if you're new, but I'm really questioning your reasons for reads

[Refa]

FUCK I forgot to mention spiderman. Spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman spiderman.

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I regret nothing.

[Shin]

I'm still scumreading Elieson but even disregarding his role (I dunno, I get that he wouldn't be confirmed town on MYLO/LYLO but he'd at least be very likely town), I'm not as confident with my case on him (and perhaps more importantly, some of the votes on him) then I do on the following; so with that in mind, I'm just going to follow my heart on this one. Regarding everyone else, Shin's still in the [lynch] circle (sorry, bro) and there's noone else that I'm confident in lynching today (I'd only look at JB if Dreamer/Elie flipped scum just because Shin really doesn't make sense as scum with either of them).

No problem, bro. I'd probably lynch me too.

I'd be happy to go for a Dreamer lynch. I've taken massive issue with their questions and responses, but I still don't like Eli. Nothing personal, I just think monocles are for HIPSTERS.

I need to make up for Baldrick's slack.

[Refa]

Thoughts on the rest of the game?

Elieson: He was very confident so i'm inclined to believe that he is town

Shin: On this moment, i think i’ll make him my number one scumread. I think that the answer on my question can make it or break it.

Baldrick: He has some scum-points now. But as i stated earlier, i don’t think Baldrick and Shin are scum together. I think that Shin is more important now.

Sniper knight ( i almost said Super Knight, again ): She is almost confirmed town by now.

Yoloswag and Refa has te same thing.

JB: He didn’t say a lot, so there is not a lot to work with. He is on my scumlist to.

Other thoughts:

I can understand the NK, because it don’t say anything except for things a lot of people already suspected. But i can not help it to be wondered why they didn’t go with a more dagerous player like Sniper Knight.

Did anyone claim messenger already? I remember a message that Refa got during the first night. Or did Green Poet send it to you/him?

Yeah, I'm with Shin on this one. What made him jump to the top of your priority list over Baldrick? I like that you're asking good questions and that you're putting some thought into this game (which is more than I can say for several players), but my problem is that your scumreads have no confidence or...oomph behind them. They're literally coming and going at the drop of the hat, which clashes with your "I'm not going to vote until I'm really confident about this read" persona.

Yeah, GP sent me a message. It reads as follows:

"Dear Refa,

My role allows me to instantly confirm myself as town to whoever I happen to target. However, because you are just that awesome (despite having no role, also did I mention that I somehow knew that you were a vanilla town even though you barely ever crumbed it), I have somehow been able to confirm that you are town as well. Congragulations!

Regards,

The Mafia Player Formerly Known As Green Poet"

But seriously, the person who messaged me is YOLO; I didn't want to out this before (I'd prefer if he'd done it himself), but I don't think he's even reading my posts at this point. Anyways, that was part of the reason for me townreading him. You'll have to question him yourself if you want to know who else he targeted.

I received a mod notification in my role PM that Green was town, Mitsuki confirmed it was correct. It was not part of my role and I really don't understand how that has any relevance with the current situation. Why would Gaius announce this as scum though? He would essentially be saying "don't potentially mislynch this person and also protect them at night".

It's really fishy how I've become your top scumread with almost no backing. The town read on Eli for being "confident" is also really bad. I'm not sure if you're new, but I'm really questioning your reasons for reads

LG would be forced to announce it either way (because as scum, it would be impossible for him to mislynch GP while he was still alive himself), so I'm not viewing it as alignment relevant.

Dreamer is definitely new AFAIK, but that doesn't change the FISH STENCH.

[Baldrick]

zzz other reads

Yolo, JB and Sniper haven't done much to change my opinion on them, and I've talked about Dreamer. Not interested in any of these lynches.

Shin would be in the same boat, but I can't just drop the Gaius thing.

Tbh I don't like the timing of Refa's gamebreaking scheme, since Elieson's role has been known for quite a while, but that's not relevant today, or even tomorrow by the looks of it.

shin can you please confirm if you prefer dreamer to elieson? I thought there would be only one non-me lynch candidate by this time by now, I hate this development and I hate all of you.

But I don't hate you, spiderman. I could never hate you.

[Baldrick]

There should be numbers for dreamer lunch w/o me (shin/elie)

But I will be grumpy in the morning.

[Baldrick]

Why do we always leave shit to the last minute? Hate consolidation dilemmas.