CGV's turn for a RD hard mode run!

[Judge Judy]

Yeah, not to mention when he becomes a marksman!

Shino can take out all the units as a marksman! He's cool, though I wished he wasn't arrogant lol

[xanatha]

Shino can take out all the units as a marksman! He's cool, though I wished he wasn't arrogant lol

Heh, I like his arrogance! Makes him so... well, it fits him!

[Judge Judy]

Heh, I like his arrogance! Makes him so... well, it fits him!

I don't like it when he takes it out on Ike...though it does suit him for some reason.

[¬_¬]

Still, Shinon still holds a grudge because he feels Ike only became leader for being Greil's son and feels that she should have been the leader instead.

Though he doesn't look arrogant this game, I like his portrait this time around, though that's pretty much the only thing that changed about him in three years, unlike Boyd and Ike.

[sandmanccl]

I haven't personally taken all 3 Marksman into endgame, but my brother took Shinon one playthrough and Leonardo another. Leo did exceptionally better than him. Shinon's strength has turned out miserable more often than Leo's has. Maybe because Leo is usable from a lower level and therefore easier to BEXP level into an unstoppable unit. And no, he doesn't double attack Ashera. You must have had him parked next to Nasir without realizing it (White Pool <3) because IIRC the only units fast enough to double attack her with their natural speed caps are the Trueblades and all the thieves.

In fact, Leonardo is the only Marksman with the potential to double-attack Ashera without help from Nasir assuming you have him use his unique bow. (I plan on doing this my next playthrough after I get around to finishing Path of Radiance, because Astrid is going to be rolling around with the Double Bow.) His speed isn't likely to cap on it's own, but seriously, you only get to use TEN PEOPLE in end-game. If "stealing experience" is an issue for you, you're using too many people from the same party in End-Game.

Shinon IS good, but IMO he's just not even comparable to the other two Marksman. His luck is terrible, his best stat growth is speed but that caps at 34 anyway (which even Leo should conceivably get to if you manage to get him to the level cap). The only thing he's got over Rolf, if you ask me, is that he's got an inherent skill.

[Florete]

Shinon is easily the best Marksman. Leo has crap speed and strength. Rolf will turn out just as good, capping strength faster, and that's all. Shinon starts the best and ends just as good as the next.

[CGV]

Shinon is easily the worst archer to end-game. Easily. His strength is miserable for me, every time. Even with bonus experience level abuse. You have a good Leo, so I say beat around the bush in Part 1 as much as you can just to save experience in later chapters for people you plan on end-gaming that are in those groups. Seeing as your Nolan is turning out pretty good, I'd say give him a shot too. Seriously, that +4 defense on his uberpwnage axe he gets makes him incredibly valuable during Part 4 assuming you've got his levels up to part with other people.

Dump Edward once you don't need him anymore. I know that as fans of the game, we all have our loyalties to those that were great for us before, but this is Hard Mode, man. If someone is sucking, they are sucking. That's a fact. Considering how large the cast in Radiant Dawn is, you're not doing yourself any favors by giving more experience to someone still needing a couple godly level gains in a row to be good when you've got new units lined up in a few chapters that have just as much potential.

I will teach you the ways of the hardcore gamer. You will be my greatest student.

Teach me sensei!

Yeah I dumped Edward. 8 str and 6 def at level 14 = epic phail (and with a 60 str growth!!!)

Nolan is starting to suck. Not as bad as Eddie, but compared to Jill, Nolan loses. And since I don't want two axe units (I like to spread out my weapons) Jill wins, but Nolan did help quite a bit

Shinon's the best overall archer, he easily maxes HP (as second tier), SKL and SPD, has decent DEF and isn't underleveled like Rolf. Rolf has to leech EXP to catch up to the other mercenaries while Shinon's already level 13 and capable of helping your other units level up by weakening enemies. His STR really shouldn't be a problem, if his STR isn't maxed by around Endgame-3, you're just having bad luck with it. Leonardo sucks for endgame and Astrid is just AWFUL for HM.

I have never brought Rolf or Leonardo, but Shinon... He's a god! He's great when fighting asera, since she cannot counter attack, and Shinon hits twice.

Yup, Shinon is crazyily powerful for a Sniper. Rolf is also good, just takes time to level up.

Leonardo hates me lol He always ends up awful

I've always used either Rolf OR Shinon, but in my last game I used them both to see who was better. It turned out that they both had pros and cons. Here are my discoveries:

Rolf: uber strength. I mean UBER strength. Since he's with the greil mercenaries, it isn't too hard to level him up. he did well in speed, too

Shinon: No need to level him up to par. He has very good skill and defense. He just lacked in strength a bit, but with supports and stronger bows it was fixable

Rolf exceeded in str and spd while Shinon took care of skl and def so I'm not sure who I'll use yet, (maybe both) but I'll see when the time comes

Right now I'm on part 1-endgame. This is gonna be one hell of a chapter... I have Iyana, Jill, Aran, Leonardo, Laura, BK, Nailah and Rafiel, plus of course, Sothe and Micaiah(lv 20)

[torifae]

Leo has crap speed and strength.

Hey, Leo maybe crap as some people may say but he's soooooo bishie! ^^

But yeah...Shinon>Rolf>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leo

[sandmanccl]

Shinon is easily the best Marksman. Leo has crap speed and strength. Rolf will turn out just as good, capping strength faster, and that's all. Shinon starts the best and ends just as good as the next.

Crap speed, yes, but if you're saying Leo has crap strength, you're saying Shinon has crap strength. They have the same growths. On average, Leo should end up with maybe a point under Shinon's strength by the time he reaches equivalent level assuming you didn't do anything but straight-up level.

Rolf is my personal favorite because I find him incredibly useful in the regular game maps and his absurd strength (seriously, he's got the best strength growth in the game, even more than Boyd) comes in handy especially late into end-game, even moreso if you bring his brothers so you can Triangle attack Lehran and Ashera. Leo is second, though, and here's why. He should gain, on average, 3.8 stats a level (which means you should gain 4, 4, 3, 4, 4, 3, or close enough to that.) Once he starts capping stuff, which is early on because his resistance and skill gains are totally nuts, his problem areas are fixable with bonus experience. If you've been able to max Micaiah's speed without too much difficulty, you should be able to do it with Leo because they have the same growths. The +4 his unique bow gives him actually speeds him up enough to double-attack things the others can't due to the average speed cap of Marksman. The ONLY stat that matters end-game for the archers is strength because they can't get enough to double attack and all of them have enough skill that missing should never be a problem.

Honestly, I don't really care for Shinon. I don't like his inherent skill on him, his strength is much harder to fix than Leo's, and he doesn't have anything special going for him like Rolf and Leo do.

[sandmanccl]

Teach me sensei!

Yeah I dumped Edward. 8 str and 6 def at level 14 = epic phail (and with a 60 str growth!!!)

Nolan is starting to suck. Not as bad as Eddie, but compared to Jill, Nolan loses. And since I don't want two axe units (I like to spread out my weapons) Jill wins, but Nolan did help quite a bit

I've always used either Rolf OR Shinon, but in my last game I used them both to see who was better. It turned out that they both had pros and cons. Here are my discoveries:

Rolf: uber strength. I mean UBER strength. Since he's with the greil mercenaries, it isn't too hard to level him up. he did well in speed, too

Shinon: No need to level him up to par. He has very good skill and defense. He just lacked in strength a bit, but with supports and stronger bows it was fixable

Rolf exceeded in str and spd while Shinon took care of skl and def so I'm not sure who I'll use yet, (maybe both) but I'll see when the time comes

Right now I'm on part 1-endgame. This is gonna be one hell of a chapter... I have Iyana, Jill, Aran, Leonardo, Laura, BK, Nailah and Rafiel, plus of course, Sothe and Micaiah(lv 20)

Remember when you dump people to bring along someone else that sort of fills that role, assuming it was something important. Zihark is the obvious choice after dumping Edward because hey, same class but better dodge because of supports.

Of course, if you've already decided on that being your end-game party, I am probably not going to say anything that will change your mind. An idea: unequip the Alondite (go into Items then hit unequip) and park Ilyana behind him. He can tank, she can dish out some punishment. Nailah should be glaring at things until they freeze in time. Don't get her too far ahead, though, because then everything will end up attacking her which will steal too much of your good experience away.

And if someone dies, shrug it off. :D

[Florete]

Shinon's base strength isn't at all bad, though. Same with his others. His innate Provoke works great with his good defense, and his skill and speed are awesome.

I don't like many low-speed units, so Leo fails for me.

Rolf is a great character. He'll start worse, gradually become better, and end the same. I just prefer Shinon.

[sandmanccl]

I still argue that Rolf becomes a lot better. Strength is the most important end-game stat for the Marksman because they aren't going to double-attack and Rolf has plenty of skill so missing isn't an issue. Defense and even resistance don't matter much to someone that can't get hit back while attacking.

I guess Luck matters second most then. Crits are fun.

[Reikken]

Crap speed, yes, but if you're saying Leo has crap strength, you're saying Shinon has crap strength. They have the same growths. On average, Leo should end up with maybe a point under Shinon's strength by the time he reaches equivalent level assuming you didn't do anything but straight-up level.

See, the thing is... Shinon is on a high level, while Leo is not. Leo catches up once he reaches the same level? Sure. But that doesn't happen until endgame.

[Florete]

I still argue that Rolf becomes a lot better. Strength is the most important end-game stat for the Marksman because they aren't going to double-attack and Rolf has plenty of skill so missing isn't an issue. Defense and even resistance don't matter much to someone that can't get hit back while attacking.

I guess Luck matters second most then. Crits are fun.

I can usually get both of them to have capped stats in everything except maybe magic by endgame with a little BEXP. Rolf does turn out better around the end of part 3 and part 4, but they will both end pretty much the same. This is why I prefer Shinon; starts as a great character, ends as one too. I still love Rolf.

[sandmanccl]

See, the thing is... Shinon is on a high level, while Leo is not. Leo catches up once he reaches the same level? Sure. But that doesn't happen until endgame.

Without heavy favoring Leonardo (not saying I wasn't favoring him a little bit, but not heavily as I was also using Nolan and Edward an awful lot), I've been able to get him to level 10ish as a Sniper before heading into part 4. Yeah, Shinon can be a marksman at that point already, I know, but so can Rolf (whom I like better) and it's not so far behind that you can't catch up on any of the part 4 maps. My brother got Leo to Marksman before part 4 once, and it didn't really take him a lot of effort.

Arguments on levels don't really hold a lot of water to me because it's too easy to work around. The only person who joins pretty much unusable is Fiona and Gareth. Tormod is a close third but he still inflicts damage so you can get him to Archsage by the time the map he rejoins on ends.

I also spread my paragon ability around a lot. *shrugs*

Playstyles and all that jazz.

[Florete]

Arguments on levels don't really hold a lot of water to me because it's too easy to work around. The only person who joins pretty much unusable is Fiona and Gareth. Tormod is a close third but he still inflicts damage so you can get him to Archsage by the time the map he rejoins on ends.

You forgot Lyre. Easily the worst character in the game, easily less usable than Fiona, who can at least become good eventually.

[sandmanccl]

True enough.

Then again, all cat laguz fail at everything, including Ranulf. I don't care what your shifted stats are if you're not even in that form for as many turns as it takes to build up to it. Lions > Tigers > Wolves > Jeigan > Cat Laguz.

[CGV]

I iz now on 2-3, Geoffery's charge. I dumped Makalov and Danved right at the start because I can't be having the little exp I get to be distributed to too many units. So I'll have 4 slighty stronger units instead of 6 slighty weaker ones

Besides the opponents being at higher levels, getting less exp and not battle saving, there's not much else different from normal mode. The same units don't move, I haven't hit fog besides the ones that are foggy in NM, but not not battle saving sucks because Part 1 endgame took FOREVER!!!

[CGV]

After about 5 tries, I FINALLY beat part 2 endgame. Now it'll be a bit easier with the greil mercenaries

[CGV]

Woah triple post...

Just finished 3-6, that chapter was harder that I thought. So many Laguz and not too many strong units to deal with them. But luckily I got through it with some very good level ups

The Greil Mercenaries are doing well (as expected)

I think I know who I'll bring to endgame

besides the 6, I want to bring these guys along...

Soren: My wind guy and not a bad support with Ike

Mia: Duh, it's Mia, and she's doing well

Shinon: Supporting Mia and kicking ass. Plus that attacking from 3 spaces away is nice to have

Nephenee: Because she's awesome like that. No one else is worthy of the Wishblade

Haar: Supporting Nephenee, and his awesome stats with flying abilities is good to have

Ilyana: Gotta have Ilyana for those dragons and to use Rexbolt

Zihark: Doing really well and supporting Ilyana

Aran: His speed is doing well, and his strength defense and skill are fucking high (can't remember)

Leonardo: Supporting Aran and doing better than expected in hard mode

Jill: Because Jill is awesome and she flies

Pelleas: Dark magic is fucking powerful

Marcia: She's good and can fly

Astrid: Always does well for me

Who to cut... I guess I'll have to find out later...

[Florete]

Who's the one who said Swordmasters are bad for hard ones? Because I'm witnessing a lot of this and Mia and Zihark are your saviors.

Ilyana is doing amazingly well also. It feels more like she has a 40 speed growth, not 30...

[CGV]

^Exactly though Eddie really sucked this time around

[sandmanccl]

I'm not saying cut all your archers, but cutting out at least one of them isn't the worst of ideas. I'd say use the ones end-game you've either never used before at all for it, or haven't used very often for it.

I always bring people that usually take me a lot of effort to raise up and manage to turn out good, mostly because the chance to ever use them end-game again is rare.

I'd also drop Aran/Nephenee if only for the fact you're going to need to get lucky with cards in order to make the one not using the Wishblade a viable awesome weapon. Last person to boot would be one of the sages, because you're rather magic-stacked. I'd vote Pelleas simply because it's hard mode and getting him up to Archsage with the gimped experience gains could prove troublesome especially if you've already got Ilyana and Soren up to speed. (That, and they are already supporting other units you plan on bringing.)

Edited October 8, 2008 by sandmanccl

[_____]

If you're going to use Illyana for the dragons, then you're better off blessing the long-range thunder tome.

[Florete]

If you're going to use Illyana for the dragons, then you're better off blessing the long-range thunder tome.

I don't think he's going to the trouble of getting a Bolting in hard mode. His Ilyana is doing amazing, I've seen it myself. You act like she's just a horrible character...