Tetragrammaton Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Your map is wrong on one single historical fact. Palestine has never actually existed. In fact, the West Bank was never referred to as Palestinian territory until after 1967. Between the years of 1948 and 1967, it was Jordanian territory and there was no mention of wanting a Palestinian state. In fact, the people in that area were citizens of Jordan. But once Israel captured the area in 1967, suddenly the people wanted their own state. I know that you're going to argue this one to death so when you do so, answer these questions. - Was Palestine ever recognized as an entity by another country? - When was it founded and by whom? - What was its capital? - What was its form of government? - What was Palestine's religion? - What was the name of its currency? - Since there is no such country today, what caused her demise? - If the people were indigenous to the area and have always wanted their own state, then why were they at the bargaining table before 1947 but never requested the area from Jordan in the 19 years that followed? Easy man, I'm not your enemy here, I don't want anybody death around here. It doesn't matter if it's just about the names of the people, what others think about them, who ruled them in the past, or when they want to be an independent state. Nations born and die, people change their names over time. The important thing is that how bad people want their independence, what price they're willing pay for it, and if they do have enough power and support to do it, to overcome all the obstacles on the way, to maintain their success against all the forces that want they fail. Even if they suddenly want it after they read some books or play some video games, even if they can only succeed in one thousand years, or maybe two thousand years (sounds familiar?). So what the big deal? Anyway, I'm not talking about right and wrong here, what I'm trying to say here, it's how they think, and those mindsets will lead to the actions we saw on TV. Valid source or not, lie or truth, bias or not, it is how they think and believe. Anyway, it will be unfair if we only hear from one side, why don't you show us the maps you believe it tells the truth? 7. You can't diminish something that didn't exist. Besides, the Arabs refused every deal they were offered. 1947, 1993, 2000, 2005 (where we actually displaced our own people by yanking them out of Gaza), 2008 and now. Every single time, we offered more and we received war in return. I guess the Israeli also lost more land after each war they received. I'm only one person, and my church is one of many. . .but this is why I was quite confused when I heard that Christians hate Jews! It surprised me that a person with full internet connection, no content censorship doesn't know anything about that. Edited October 20, 2015 by hanhnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Anyway, it will be unfair if we only hear from one side, why don't you show us the maps you believe it tells the truth? Those questions weren't posed because Life (now Jim Moriarty) felt like doing a typing exercise. He had a reason for it, and it would be really cool if you answered them, instead of trying to dodge the issue. It surprised me that a person with full internet connection, no content censorship doesn't know anything about that. I don't go looking for Internet fights. Or people spewing racist crap (they tend to get tuned out, because that kind of conflict ain't productive). Edited October 20, 2015 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Easy man, I'm not your enemy here, I don't want anybody death around here. It doesn't matter if it's just about the names of the people, what others think about them, who ruled them in the past, or when they want to be an independent state. Nations born and die, people change their names over time. The important thing is that how bad people want their independence, what price they're willing pay for it, and if they do have enough power and support to do it, to overcome all the obstacles on the way, to maintain their success against all the forces that want they fail. Even if they suddenly want it after they read some books or play some video games, even if they can only succeed in one thousand years, or maybe two thousand years (sounds familiar?). So what the big deal? Anyway, I'm not talking about right and wrong here, what I'm trying to say here, it's how they think, and those mindsets will lead to the actions we saw on TV. Valid source or not, lie or truth, bias or not, it is how they think and believe. Anyway, it will be unfair if we only hear from one side, why don't you show us the maps you believe it tells the truth? I guess the Israeli also lost more land after each war they received. As Eclipse said, those questions aren't for no reason. It's actually impossible to prove that "Palestine" was a nation at any point in history up until now. It was the name of an area that was controlled by another power (Romans/Turks/British) and there's 2000 year evidence that it was Jewish territory. Masada, the Western Wall, Caeseria.. those are just the big three. The only peaceful way to solve this conflict is for the Arabs to give up on trying to kill us. Golda Meir said about 40~50 years ago that peace will come only when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us (Israelis). That quote still rings true today. As for maps that show my side, not difficult. I just need one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: Instead of linking images directly from a site, use an image hosting solution. Imgur will accept links to images, and will copy the image to their server. Then, link the original picture as a text link. I don't want to go to each picture, and try to figure out whether or not the site is a one-man operation, or something hosted by a larger group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 So Netanyahu apparently claimed that the Palestinians were responsible for convincing Hitler to do the Holocaust. While the Nazis did work with certain Palestinian terrorist groups against the British, I really shouldn't have to say that this idea is complete horseshit. Not Netanyahu's finest hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I like Germany's response http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/holocaust-israel-netanyahu-palestinians-jews/411703/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So Netanyahu apparently claimed that the Palestinians were responsible for convincing Hitler to do the Holocaust. While the Nazis did work with certain Palestinian terrorist groups against the British, I really shouldn't have to say that this idea is complete horseshit. Not Netanyahu's finest hour. Agreed 100% entirely with you. This is why I didn't want Bibi to be Prime Minister. He'll defend Israel to the death but he'll go too far sometimes. I really wish Bugi or Yair Lapid were the PM right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The Prime Minister of Israel is a Hitler apologist. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 As Eclipse said, those questions aren't for no reason. It's actually impossible to prove that "Palestine" was a nation at any point in history up until now. It was the name of an area that was controlled by another power (Romans/Turks/British) and there's 2000 year evidence that it was Jewish territory. Masada, the Western Wall, Caeseria.. those are just the big three. The only peaceful way to solve this conflict is for the Arabs to give up on trying to kill us. Golda Meir said about 40~50 years ago that peace will come only when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us (Israelis). That quote still rings true today. As for maps that show my side, not difficult. I just need one. I was expecting a map show the area through time, to see what the Israel had done. The questions had been answered by another guy, and beside, it is obvious that depend on people's point of view, which might be very true to a person, it may be completely meaning shit to the other. Whatever story the Israeli believe, the Palestinian don't buy it and vice-versa. “At war, there's no right or wrong. Winner's right while loser's wrong.” It's easy for you to say, when you're on the winning side. About what Golda Meir said, I doubt that the same thing can be heard when you learn history lessons about many rebels, revolutions against tyrants, dictators or invaders. Don't you think that's how they're looking at you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I was expecting a map show the area through time, to see what the Israel had done. The questions had been answered by another guy, and beside, it is obvious that depend on people's point of view, which might be very true to a person, it may be completely meaning shit to the other. Whatever story the Israeli believe, the Palestinian don't buy it and vice-versa. It's easy for you to say, when you're on the winning side. About what Golda Meir said, I doubt that the same thing can be heard when you learn history lessons about many rebels, revolutions against tyrants, dictators or invaders. Don't you think that's how they're looking at you? I know for a fact first hand that a lot of the people who live in the West Bank don't care for either Israelis or the PLO. The vast majority of them just want to move on with their lives and a lot of them feel captive by the PLO in a never-ending war cycle. But again, what do I know? It's not like I did months of patrols and guard duty at checkpoints there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamma Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) But again, what do I know? It's not like I did months of patrols and guard duty at checkpoints there... You were on guard duty, I'm pretty sure you never spoke with them. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Although, you're right. Most people just want to live in peace. Most of the people fighting are old ass muftis, or really just disillusioned youth. Btw, this whole conflict is NOT never ending. The Palestinians will win. Not by force, or throwing the hardest rock, but by demographics. In the next 50 years, I HIGHLY doubt Israel will remain a majority Jewish State. None of the Jews are having kids. Their replacement rate in Israel, is 1.7, well below the golden standard of 2.1, which is stable population growth. The Muslims(The best category I can use) have a replacement rate of 2.4, quite above the 2.1 standard. Hell, right now, Jews make up about 70-79% of the total population of Israel, but by 2030, the estimate will be around 44%. And with these numbers, I've done the math, that around 2050, Israel, very ironically, will be a majority Arab state. Edit: Heres my source: http://www.israelnsp.org/what-they-say/status-quo-is-dangerous/israels-demographic-challen.html Edited October 24, 2015 by Flamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 You were on guard duty, I'm pretty sure you never spoke with them. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. You are wrong. Entirely. The rest of your point doesn't matter because you're "pretty sure" that you know more about my own military service than me. I don't even feel like acknowledging anything you say from this point on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I know for a fact first hand that a lot of the people who live in the West Bank don't care for either Israelis or the PLO. The vast majority of them just want to move on with their lives and a lot of them feel captive by the PLO in a never-ending war cycle. But again, what do I know? It's not like I did months of patrols and guard duty at checkpoints there... What should I say now? There are more than 7 billions people in the world, and I'm 100% so sure that 7 billions of them want the same thing, they dont care which government rules them, as long as they can live a good life. But I'm not so sure about the rest, many of them love war and chaos, it's a trillion dollars business. 10 Countries That Export the Most Weapons 1. United States: 31% 2. Russia: 27% 3. China: 5% 4. Germany: 5% 5. France: 5% 6. U.K.: 4% 7. Spain: 3% 8. Italy: 3% 9. Ukraine: 3% 10. Israel: 2% You're the one who lives in warzone, so I think there are some things you should know better than me. If I live under the rule of a group of people I consider enemies, I'll never tell them how much I hate them, especially when they run around the whole place with guns in the hands. Just 1 mistake comes from my mouth, it may cost my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) What should I say now? There are more than 7 billions people in the world, and I'm 100% so sure that 7 billions of them want the same thing, they dont care which government rules them, as long as they can live a good life. But I'm not so sure about the rest, many of them love war and chaos, it's a trillion dollars business. 10 Countries That Export the Most Weapons You're the one who lives in warzone, so I think there are some things you should know better than me. If I live under the rule of a group of people I consider enemies, I'll never tell them how much I hate them, especially when they run around the whole place with guns in the hands. Just 1 mistake comes from my mouth, it may cost my life. You know, it is not in the job description of the vast majority of soldiers in democratic nations to shoot someone if they are informed that that person hates them. (Tell that to American cops, but wrong topic.) Edited October 24, 2015 by blah2127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 You know, it is not in the job description of the vast majority of soldiers in democratic nations to shoot someone if they are informed that that person hates them. (Tell that to American cops, but wrong topic.)Agreed. Not to mention that we get court-marshalled if we were to shoot them without threat to our own lives (and the army is stricted on this one). The unofficial motto of the IDF is "a possibly dead soldier is better than a dead terrorist" because god forbid should we shoot first (or even at all).Silly Jews! Why don't you all roll over and die already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamma Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 You are wrong. Entirely. The rest of your point doesn't matter because you're "pretty sure" that you know more about my own military service than me. I don't even feel like acknowledging anything you say from this point on. What did you ask them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 This is one of my stories and a really nice one. Me and a bunch of my friends were doing checkpoint duty at a checkpoint nearby the settlement of Bika'ot. The checkpoint itself is about a ten minute drive east of Nablus (Shechem). It's about 1 in the morning and we're freezing cold on top of being tired (our shifts were 8 on, 8 off). Suddenly this 13 year old Palestinian kid comes to the checkpoint holding a bag. He's got one of the warmest smiles on his face that I've ever seen, which immediately makes us suspicious. We tell him to open up his bag and he immediately starts pulling out food and drinks. He then tells us that it's for us. We're still suspicious because we think that he might be trying to poison us but he takes the initiative by taking a bite and drink out of every single thing he's brought. It was a genuine offer of kindness. We sit down with him, play a little backgammon (big game out here) and just chill for a bit. Afterwards, he packs up and is about to head back when I ask him why he did this. He replies that his teachers keep trying to teach him and his friends that we just want to kill them and he wanted to prove them wrong. He also told us that he'd rather be an Israeli citizen because he knows how Arabs are treated in Israel. In the West Bank, he's just a number, a pawn. In Israel, he can be a person. That was one of my best memories from my army service and it made me feel like I was making a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) So Netanyahu apparently claimed that the Palestinians were responsible for convincing Hitler to do the Holocaust. While the Nazis did work with certain Palestinian terrorist groups against the British, I really shouldn't have to say that this idea is complete horseshit. Not Netanyahu's finest hour. While it's hard to say who convinced Hitler to do the holocaust, Haj Amin did target the Jews in Baghdad during his uprising. Also, while Palestinians did lose lands to Israel year after year. It's their fault for losing the lands. The Arabians didnt satisfied with territory arrangement by UN and attacked Israel first to destroy the newly born Israel. But their action backfired and they even lost the lands they have from the start. Really, who could pass such a chance to increase your land like that so of course Israel went with it and take more lands whenever they can. It's a smart decision if you ask me. This world is a cruel place. If you dont have what it takes to play the war game then dont. To me, the Arabian countries are just sore losers. Anyway, of all countries, does Britain and America have the right to open their mouth about "killing the locals and taking their lands"? And of course the Jews were hated by almost everyone, from thousand years ago. You dont need to make a survey to know that. Edited October 27, 2015 by Magical CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) I dunno, if we're going to compare what's going on to the atrocities that US/Britain have done in the past, all the more it's pretty horrible. Edited October 28, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) So apparently, Israeli athletes are now not allowed to officially compete for their country. YNet's report of the Abu Dhabi Grand Slam because I can't find a non-Israeli news-station that bothers to mention this atrocity. This is why there's going to be no peace here. We're stubborn and when people tell us that we're not allowed to exist, we don't exactly listen to them. Especially when you're going to fly the Palestinian flag but not ours. EDIT: Did a bit of research and the IJF confirms it. Israeli judoka are actually listed as IJF and not ISR on the IJF's official site. Edited November 1, 2015 by Jim Moriarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/01/435850/Israeli-forces-shooting-Palestinian-youth-West-Bank-alKhalil-Hebron The Palestinian Health Ministry says at least 72 Palestinians, including 12 children, two infants and a pregnant woman, have lost their lives at the hands of Israeli forces since the beginning of October. Some 7,100 others have also sustained injuries. At least 10 Israelis have been killed and 130 others injured during the same period. More death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/01/435850/Israeli-forces-shooting-Palestinian-youth-West-Bank-alKhalil-Hebron More death. What's your point? It's already been proved the world over that the PLO will claim people to be innocents before anything. Like that "13 year old kid who was executed" according to Abbas who is not only alive but now standing trial on attempted murder. Looking at all your comments, I think you're more anti-Israel rather than pro-Palestinian. And yes, there's a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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