Unit Practicality Thread

[Ownagepuffs]

Hello I have a few questions regarding Kamui and Kanna

So I'm starting my Lunatic playthroughs pretty soon on each route(I did Hard my first playthroughs) I'm curious what's actually good for Kamui and Kanna class wise is Nohr Prince/Princess pretty wack compared to the other options?

In Nohr I ended as a Dark Blood

In Hoshido I ended as White Blood but I also was a Trueblade for Astra but I kinda felt like I shoulda just stayed Trueblade

In IK I think I was doing some sorta weird White Blood utility build.

Ninja into Elite Ninja was brought up as an option to me and I find it very interesting I intend to try it out in Nohr Lunatic.

Also I feel like unlike Morgan Kanna actually needs a good mother. IK I married Velour, Hoshido Hana and Nohr Azura. I feel like the Nohr Prince/Princess class might actually be garbage for her and I'm better off reclassing her into a pure physical class(I considered Great Lord) what have you guys done with your Kannas?

Also I saw +MAG Paladin as an option that looks pretty neat as well would you be using Levin Sword for the majority of the game then switch it up to Yato during the end game orrr? I planned to try +MAG Paladin in Hoshido Lunatic.

+STR/-RES Ninja in Nohr

+STR/-RES Samurai in IK

I'm open to some suggestions though thanks in advance :>

Haha you're totally using an asset/flaw build I stole from another user here. Answering these in order:

The "blood" classes are indeed sub par but not terrible. They seem like failsafe classes in case you picked a subclass that can't use Yato or something. Dark Blood can be pretty decent coming out of Spellcaster since the Tome rank carries and you get a bit bulkier but mixed classes are never as good as specialty ones.

I have never used Kanna because Kanna isn't very good in game.

+Mag/-Lck Paladin is Gwimpage's build. You are correct in that Levin sword is the build's main appeal. Levin sword until you need Yato basically. Mount + strong 1-2 range. Might work better as Mamui x Felicia since her personal gives a damage bonus and even with +Mag, Cav Kamui's magic is sketch.

+Str/-Res Samurai is pretty ridiculous. 55% HP/70% Str/60% Skl/60% Spd/40% Defense growths, on top of proc stacking Astra and Dragon Fang, on top of avoid stacking Yato plus class bonus plus Jakob personal + flowing Strike, on top of swordfaire + Yato. It's all just really really dumb. It works great in IK because 3rd route Yato is a totally balanced weapon.

+Str/-Res Ninja is mostly the same deal, except with 1-2 range and no swordfaire/Astra proc stacking. Ninja Kamui makes a lot of Nohr's hardest chapters noticeably easier save 26. I recommend it over Samurai for Nohr.

[MitoRequiem]

Haha you're totally using an asset/flaw build I stole from another user here. Answering these in order:

The "blood" classes are indeed sub par but not terrible. They seem like failsafe classes in case you picked a subclass that can't use Yato or something. Dark Blood can be pretty decent coming out of Spellcaster since the Tome rank carries and you get a bit bulkier but mixed classes are never as good as specialty ones.

I have never used Kanna because Kanna isn't very good in game.

+Mag/-Lck Paladin is Gwimpage's build. You are correct in that Levin sword is the build's main appeal. Levin sword until you need Yato basically. Mount + strong 1-2 range. Might work better as Mamui x Felicia since her personal gives a damage bonus and even with +Mag, Cav Kamui's magic is sketch.

+Str/-Res Samurai is pretty ridiculous. 55% HP/70% Str/60% Skl/60% Spd/40% Defense growths, on top of proc stacking Astra and Dragon Fang, on top of avoid stacking Yato plus class bonus plus Jakob personal + flowing Strike, on top of swordfaire + Yato. It's all just really really dumb. It works great in IK because 3rd route Yato is a totally balanced weapon.

+Str/-Res Ninja is mostly the same deal, except with 1-2 range and no swordfaire/Astra proc stacking. Ninja Kamui makes a lot of Nohr's hardest chapters noticeably easier save 26. I recommend it over Samurai for Nohr.

Ahh I see I will consider some options then, I totally abused DLC for IK mainly because I just wanted to get a file ready for potential future challenge chapters but I think I might start all over and actually try.

I was afraid Kanna was just mediocre :/ that's unfortunate but I guess that means I get to care less about optimizing that unit(aka I can marry who the hell I want lol)

Who are the children you would consider going out of your way to get? I went for Midoriko, Kanna, Siegbert, Sophie and Ophelia(I actually went out of my way to get Witch for her)

I also hear Pass is pretty much needed in the final chapter of Lunatic but I wasn't really told why so I assume getting pass on Zero and passing it down to Eponine and switching her into a Bow Knight would be a good move.

EDIT: I didn't really include much about Hoshido cause I feel it's pretty basic and easy regardless of difficulty but I could be wrong.

Edited December 22, 2015 by MitoRequiem

[Shephen]

It is worth noting that taking +mag allows Kamui to take advantage of marriage sealing the servant into Strategist giving them a mounted magic class. Revenant Knight also works if you want to marry Camilla/Belka.

A sorta niche build for Kamui in IK is a +Str/Spd Lancer. Kamui can take Azura's lance and build up his weapon rank in 7 and 8 and he can use the seals to set up kills for others or himself which is nice given how much stronger the enemies are in IK. Pretty niche and I wouldn't put it above the other options(Cav/Ninja/Spellcastor/Samurai).

Kanna is about as meh as you can get. She won't ever really excel at anything but she will always exist and could do something if you wanted to.

Lutz, Velour, Sophie, Matoi and Shino(if you are fine with the rescue cost) are the best kids. Siegbert, Grey, Ophelia, and Eponine are all pretty good should you get them. Midoriko is really only good in Nohr.

Either Zero, Eponine or Asyura with pass and 1 rescue charge is recommended for clearing Nohr Endgame on Lunatic.

[Shadow Mir]

Midoriko is really only good in Nohr.

Pray tell?

[astrophys]

Its no secret that I want to marry my Avatar off with Matoi, but I kind of all want a +MAG Avatar, so I get the feeling that I'm not exactly making a practical choice here, seeing that Matoi doesn't exactly excel at magic and my Avatar doesn't tend to get +MAG boosts from Matoi (unless she does something like the DLC or presumably from the localized Special Edition).

I've theory-crafted a Dark Knight build before, but its really just an alternate Yato sword user with the option to use tomes (except that I'd tend to have weapon rank issues)….

One thing that keeps being a bit of a hesitation point for me is that I know that Matoi always gets the Samurai tree from Tsubaki, so if the Avatar took a Samurai class himself Matoi wouldn't be able to get anything from him in marriage seal…. although I suppose I'm worrying to much about that, as if I do no-grind run she's probably sticking to Falcon Knight (or DLC Dark Flier) anyways…..

+MAG Samurai/Trueblade doesn't seem to be that practical for Hoshido, given the lack of Levin Swords, but would it have some potential in Invisible Kingdom? +MAG Levin Sword Trueblade, for example?

Honestly, I should probably just take a step away from magic and go with a more physical class set if going for Matoi…. something like Cavalier (she has Sophie, but is probably not having time to A+ or S with multiple people, I'd guess)… maybe I should do something like +STR or +SPD Cavalier or something like that? Or even something crazier, like DEF or HP to make a bit more of a tank?

In short, what do you think would be the most practical way to build my Avatar in Birthright and in Revelation if the only restriction I place is that (due to personal preference) I'm having him marry Matoi? That is, don't worry about my magical inclinations, use any asset, flaw, and secondary class that you think is appropriate without restrictions, and give Matoi any parent you want?

[Shephen]

Pray tell?

In Hoshido you get a lot of money. In IK you get a lot of stuff. Nohr is really the only route where you would really like the extra cash she can bring in. Her combat isn't very notable anyways.

For astophys, a +Mag/Str Cavalier for Lunatic Hoshido would be really good. The +mag would come in useful with the shocksticks since you can get the Open Assault boost to it which is basically a +6 damage. Granted Kamui's offense will be pretty middling till he gets his hands on it.

[MitoRequiem]

I completely forgot about Grey, The puppet healing with Butler seems kinda neat can't wait to try that.

Who do you marry Flannel to in Nohr? I heard Effie is good but if I'm gonna get Lutz shouldn't Effie be the mother?(To be honest I probably wont' get Lutz I don't like him lol) but If I was going to I'd like to know my other options.

As for options in general for future Lunatic playthroughs

+MAG/-LCK Cav for Hoshido
+STR/-RES Samurai for Nohr/Hoshido/IK(Would going female Kamui be significantly better cause of Joker passive?)
+STR/-RES Ninja for Nohr I'm currently trying this out
+MAG/-RES?(Do I want weak asset on resist?) Wyvern Rider into Revenant Knight is also an option for all 3 paths?

[astrophys]

For astophys, a +Mag/Str Cavalier for Lunatic Hoshido would be really good. The +mag would come in useful with the shocksticks since you can get the Open Assault boost to it which is basically a +6 damage. Granted Kamui's offense will be pretty middling till he gets his hands on it.

Noted…. thanks for the advice….

I have had my concerns about what that would mean when fighting the final boss, as my Yato would be weaker then, but I suppose that I could make use of other characters (even if they aren't as efficient) to chip the boss… also, gaining Open Assault would help offset, but not necessarily entirely remove, the offensive loss…. then again, -LCK is a 5% penalty already (but my builds weren't gaining Open Assault or Defender)… -STR is -1 starting and -10% growth….

I'd have to train my lance rank for a while, but it would be easier to do so early on, I suppose….. also, I suppose that seeing that Kamui is your lord anyways, giving him an Armscroll would be fine if necessary, as I'm certain to use him….

Let's see….

+MAG/-STR Personal Growths:

45% HP; 35% Str [45%-10%], 50% Mag [30%+20%], 35% Skl [40%-5%], 50% Spd [45%+5%], 45% Lck, 30% Def [35%-5%], 30% Res [25%+5%]

Base stats adjustment: +3 Mag, -1 Str

Nohr Prince Level 1 Bases:

19 HP, 6 Str (7-1), 7 Mag (4+3), 7 Skl, 6 Spd, 5 Lck, 6 Def, 2 Res, 5 Move

Class change to Cavalier: +0 HP, -1 Str, -3 Mag, +1 Skl, +0 Spd, +1 Lck, +0 Def, +1 Res, +2 Move

Cavalier Class Growths: 10% HP, 15% Str, 0% Mag, 10% Skl, 10% Spd, 15% Lck, 10% Def, 5% Res

Paladin Class Growths: the same, except 10% Res instead.

Growths are slightly lower overall, but I gain movement and the lance ranks….

Promote to Paladin: +2 HP, +2 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +2 Spd, +1 Lck, +2 Def, +3 Res, +1 Move

Predicted average stats:

1/0 Nohr Prince [Guaranteed]: 19 HP, 6 Str, 7 Mag, 7 Skl, 6 Spd, 5 Lck, 6 Def, 2 Res, 5 Move [skill: Noble Lineage]

10/0 Nohr Prince [Average]: 24.4 HP, 10.5 Str, 12.4 Mag, 11.05 Skl, 11.4 Spd, 9.95 Lck, 9.6 Def, 5.15 Res, 5 Move [skills: Noble Lineage, Dragon Fang]

10/0 Cavalier: 24.4 HP, 9.5 Str, 9.4 Mag, 12.05 Skl, 11.4 Spd, 10.95 Lck, 9.6 Def, 6.15 Res, 7 Move.

20/0 Cavalier: 29.9 HP, 14.5 Str, 14.4 Mag, 16.55 Skl, 17.4 Spd, 16.95 Lck, 13.6 Def, 9.65 Res, 7 Move [skills: Noble Lineage, Dragon Fang, Open Assault, Rescue]

20/1 Paladin: 31.9 HP, 16.5 Str, 15.4 Mag, 18.55 Skl, 19.4 Spd, 17.95 Lck, 15.6 Def, 12.65 Res, 8 Move [skills: see above]

20/15 Paladin: 39.6 HP, 23.5 Str, 22.4 Mag, 24.85 Skl, 27.8 Spd, 26.35 Lck, 21.2 Def, 18.25 Res, 8 Move [skills: Noble Lineage, Dragon Fang, Open Assault, Rescue, Defender, Aegis]

20/20 Paladin: 42.35 HP, 26 Str, 24.9 Mag, 27.1 Skl, 30.8 Spd, 29.35 Lck, 23.2 Def, 20.25 Res, 8 Move [skills: see above]

Defender when in pair-up offers +1 to all stats. Open Assault adds +3 damage….

[Tooru]

I completely forgot about Grey, The puppet healing with Butler seems kinda neat can't wait to try that.

Who do you marry Flannel to in Nohr? I heard Effie is good but if I'm gonna get Lutz shouldn't Effie be the mother?(To be honest I probably wont' get Lutz I don't like him lol) but If I was going to I'd like to know my other options.

As for options in general for future Lunatic playthroughs

+MAG/-LCK Cav for Hoshido

+STR/-RES Samurai for Nohr/Hoshido/IK(Would going female Kamui be significantly better cause of Joker passive?)

+STR/-RES Ninja for Nohr I'm currently trying this out

+MAG/-RES?(Do I want weak asset on resist?) Wyvern Rider into Revenant Knight is also an option for all 3 paths?

Effie has fast support growth with Arthur so you can bench Arthur as soon as possible XD.

Camilla and Effie are good mothers for most children including Velour.

Usually when Flannel is tanking in front line, Camilla is better to solo somewhere else. You have to give up this if you want them stay together for supports.

Effie can be a second tank next to Flannel so their support raises more easily.

Charlotte can pair Flannel forever since she is not good at other works.

But her Def growth may hurt Velour for in-game playing, while her Str&Spd don't help Velour too much.

Flannel is good enough so usually I don't care about his marriage.

I don't really need a powful Velour to double enemies with Guard Beaststone XD.

[Ownagepuffs]

In Hoshido you get a lot of money. In IK you get a lot of stuff. Nohr is really the only route where you would really like the extra cash she can bring in. Her combat isn't very notable anyways.

It's funny because Nohr gives you a ton of money, you just have to go out of your way for it. The girl is truly useless.

I completely forgot about Grey, The puppet healing with Butler seems kinda neat can't wait to try that.

Who do you marry Flannel to in Nohr? I heard Effie is good but if I'm gonna get Lutz shouldn't Effie be the mother?(To be honest I probably wont' get Lutz I don't like him lol) but If I was going to I'd like to know my other options.

As for options in general for future Lunatic playthroughs

+MAG/-LCK Cav for Hoshido

+STR/-RES Samurai for Nohr/Hoshido/IK(Would going female Kamui be significantly better cause of Joker passive?)

+STR/-RES Ninja for Nohr I'm currently trying this out

+MAG/-RES?(Do I want weak asset on resist?) Wyvern Rider into Revenant Knight is also an option for all 3 paths?

Flannel is great for either Effie, Luna, Cam, or Belka. All of these units either greatly appreciate his boosts (Luna/Belka) or get taken to new levels of fuckery (Cam/Effie) when paired with him.

As for your general plan, sounds good to me. FeMui is usually better because Jakob's personal is so insanely strong. Another fun build is +Mag/-Res Spellcaster but it's really just a worse +Str/-Res Ninja. :/

For astro: 1x is a good place to build weapon rank. I used it to take Kamui from E Kunai to D Kunai in my Nohr run. You could use it to go from E Lances to D Lances then Arms Scroll for shockstick if you have to.

Wyvern is kinda awkward early on.

[astrophys]

Will I tend to be level 10 by the time of 1x? [This is to get Dragon Fang before class change.]

I get one Dragon's vein point after Ch. 6 and another after Ch.7, right? And does 1x unlock after 7 or after 6? Its after 7, right?

So I suppose I could build a vendor after 6 and a weapons shock after Ch.7 or vice versa, right?

There's an Arms Scroll in Ch. 11, right?

[Ebony]

While talking about Flannel, what about Nishiki? Nishiki want anything from a Femui?

[solrocknroll]

I'm assuming that IK Odin is a bad idea? I've heard he's Wendy tier, but he can't be that bad, can he?

[avengerfive]

What do you think about a +Mag/-Lck Dark Mage -> Dark Knight Build? It gives Kamui tomes for 1-2 range, and he gets Yato again and a mount on promotion. Felicia pairup gives a nice bit of speed and mag, and her personal helps a lot too. Is it better then a +Str/-Lck Ninja -> Elite Ninja Jacob pairup?

[astrophys]

What do you think about a +Mag/-Lck Dark Mage -> Dark Knight Build? It gives Kamui tomes for 1-2 range, and he gets Yato again and a mount on promotion. Felicia pairup gives a nice bit of speed and mag, and her personal helps a lot too. Is it better then a +Str/-Lck Ninja -> Elite Ninja Jacob pairup?

I've given it a lot a thought myself…. I kind of like the idea myself…. one problem for me is I don't really like Felicia, but that doesn't belong in a practicality topic.

+5 speed and +5 magical damage from the Maid + Absolute Support would be good….

[Tooru]

Will I tend to be level 10 by the time of 1x? [This is to get Dragon Fang before class change.]

I get one Dragon's vein point after Ch. 6 and another after Ch.7, right? And does 1x unlock after 7 or after 6? Its after 7, right?

So I suppose I could build a vendor after 6 and a weapons shock after Ch.7 or vice versa, right?

There's an Arms Scroll in Ch. 11, right?

Kamui usually reaches lv10 during chapter 7.

[avengerfive]

While talking about Flannel, what about Nishiki? Nishiki want anything from a Femui?

Nishiki gives a crazy +7 spd on s-rank(as a Nine-Tails Fox). You could probably get away with like a +Str/-Lck Cavalier. Personally I think his Spd is a little overkill.

[avengerfive]

I've given it a lot a thought myself…. I kind of like the idea myself…. one problem for me is I don't really like Felicia, but that doesn't belong in a practicality topic.

+5 speed and +5 magical damage from the Maid + Absolute Support would be good….

Yea and if your MU's speed is good, you can switch Felicia to Dark Knight or Strategist for a 9 move Kamui.

[Ebony]

Nishiki gives a crazy +7 spd on s-rank(as a Nine-Tails Fox). You could probably get away with like a +Str/-Lck Cavalier. Personally I think his Spd is a little overkill.

Truth be told I'm tempted to go with my usual Mercenary route out of bias for it, but hm... Cavalier... maybeeee.

I'm assuming that IK Odin is a bad idea? I've heard he's Wendy tier, but he can't be that bad, can he?

Apparently? He is.

[Ownagepuffs]

I'm assuming that IK Odin is a bad idea? I've heard he's Wendy tier, but he can't be that bad, can he?

10 base speed and no support ranks right before every enemy promotes and requires anywhere from 21-26 AS to double? It's pretty rough for him.

While talking about Flannel, what about Nishiki? Nishiki want anything from a Femui?

Nishiki is pretty solid. He'd really just like a boost to his Str/Def since he's usually fast enough. FeMui almost never plays back row since they are so good.

What do you think about a +Mag/-Lck Dark Mage -> Dark Knight Build? It gives Kamui tomes for 1-2 range, and he gets Yato again and a mount on promotion. Felicia pairup gives a nice bit of speed and mag, and her personal helps a lot too. Is it better then a +Str/-Lck Ninja -> Elite Ninja Jacob pairup?

The only thing would be that as a DM with -Lck you'll be sitting on a 40 Str Growth so Kamui's physical combat might be sketchy post promotion. Hoshido and IK Yato do give Str boosts but Nohr Yato only boosts bulk so it may be an issue without Felicia/Gunther support. Kamui's bulk growths also seem kinda sketch as a DM as well.

Edit: didn't realize DM had +10% str Growth lol

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[avengerfive]

The only thing would be that as a DM with -Lck you'll be sitting on a 40 Str Growth so Kamui's physical combat might be sketchy post promotion. Hoshido and IK Yato do give Str boosts but Nohr Yato only boosts bulk so it may be an issue without Felicia/Gunther support. Kamui's bulk growths also seem kinda sketch as a DM as well.

Edit: didn't realize DM had +10% str Growth lol

Yea so 50% Str as a DM, and it goes to 60% as a DN. He also gets 55% def as a DN. I think +Mag might be overkill, he has a 70% growth in Mag as a DM, plus Felicia's boosts. lol

[avengerfive]

Damn, double post. Sorry.

Edited December 22, 2015 by R O Y B O Y S

[Shadow Mir]

I'm assuming that IK Odin is a bad idea? I've heard he's Wendy tier, but he can't be that bad, can he?

Take it from me - he's the big loser in IK. Odin gets OHKOd in his join chapter on NM. On Lunatic the Paladins OHKOs him at 100% accuracy and doubles him while Odin does 1 damage.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[FireRuby14]

I have a couple of uneasyness regarding Zero and what kind of class(probably not Bowmen since he can get it from two wives) and asset/flaw to have that is good to patch up his Strength for Eponine and Kanna, I was kinda considering a +Str/-Def just to patch up his mods but unless I get lucky with the level ups my Def/Res could take quite a beating.

[Ownagepuffs]

In game, Zero's offense is fine, considering the above average Mt of bows and how he pretty much always doubles. I just used Zerker Belka as his pair up fodder and he was set.