Unit Practicality Thread

[Ownagepuffs]

Well, Nohr sometimes makes me appreciate having a healer who can not die (and also counter). There's Fuuga's map where the wind mechanic is irrational when it leaves your healers alone with an enemy they can't escape from, so it'd be good if they could take an attack while your fliers position themselves to come to rescue next turn. C24 (Hinoka's map) is another chapter where not playing carefully / not activating Dragon Veins in a timely manner can seriously endanger your weaker units. Both Fuuga and Hinoka are notoriously difficult to one-round KO, so the fancy 2-3 turn strategies designed for getting to the seize point ASAP on those maps won't do it for the regular player seeking reliability.

Mostly, I just find Leo's chip extremely meaty when finishing off weakened enemies with Brunusuififo, which I can hardly say about Felicia's combat with the Exploding Shuriken or Elise's combat with lolFire, so if he could be the healer I take along with me, there is more than one thing I'd have him contribute.

If you don't choose Strategist Leo, Asura in his default class also makes a great healer who can counter at 1-range with the Short Bow and at 1-2 range with the Shining Bow (I've got him to one-round enemies with it before through Attack Stance in spite of his low magic). Of course, LTCers trade him over for a pair of Boots.

Leo's a ORKO machine. At base he has like, 33 Atk hitting resistance (30 + 2 Devilish Wind + 1 Weapon rank bonus), 35 with magic tonic. W/ Felicia pair up, tonics, and possibly spd food (milk in Nohr) he has 21 AS, 37 Atk which lets him ORKO the Zerkers, Sorcs, and every unpromoted enemy save the Outlaws. Even in his join chapter, he OHKOs the Bowmen and with Luna pair up he ORKOs the Oni Savages which makes up 2/3rds of the map. 17 and 19 are admittedly awkward for him, but if he gets a speed proc in C16 and builds C support with Felicia he can hit 22 speed to ORKO the puppets in 17 in addition to the pupeteers in 17 with good accuracy due to bind. Chapter 18 he can ORKO the Paladins with 21 AS along with still ORKOing the Sorcs and he 2HKOs the General boss(es) because defensive formation so he can definitely put in work there. If he gets the N17 speedwings he could probably even hit 25 spd to ORKO the bow Knights/Heroes or if you have Azura's special dance that works too.

Long story short he's way too good of an offensive unit to be relegated to Chip n' Heal.

Why not beat the ch8 Soldier before his visiting instead of just Freeze him?

I see the route you're talking about and I wonder why I've never tried it.

Yeah, not many characters are that good on that map. If Leo has trouble surviving as a Strategist, then what does that say about Felicia and Elise? I think the inability to double the Golems and the constant waves of reinforcements giving 0 experience is more than enough incentive to flierskip that map even if you're not LTCing.

I never considered Freezing the Soldier on that map though. Isn't visiting 3 villages the same as visiting all 5 in terms of the reward you get?

fwiw The enemies that don't have Nihilistic Curse (0 exp) give fairly generous experience and it's good for building support between Marx and Charlotte since he doesn't get much of a chance to in 21 (wind is sorta obnoxious).

Also yes, visiting 3 is the same as 5. I tend to visit the initial one, the lower left one and the lower middle one, skipping the northmost one and the middle right one entirely. But I just realized a different route I could take now.

The main gripe is that even though Leon can cap speed even as a dark knight, his speed cap is unbelievably terrible at 25. That means he has to rely on a fast support (Maid Felicia/Adventurer Nyx) to be competent by late to end game. But if you like bulk enough, he's still pretty fantastic most of the Nohr route.

Tbh it's not a problem until reeaallly late, like N27 late and N27 is derp. Even in N26 a capped spd Leo with Felicia S rank and tonic is at 32 speed and spd food puts him at 33 so he doubles everything on the map except the 29 spd Zerkers.

The average Leo fails to cap speed at /20 actually... But yeah, he's slow and the extra 2-3 points of speed as a Strategist can be quite helpful. Dark Knight Leo is also a great defensive support partner for a mage unit, too, providing magic, defence and mobility - basically everything a mage wants. Strategists aren't bad pair up partners either, though luck is nowhere as welcome as phys defence is. Still, you gotta wonder who Leo will be supporting - Bolt Axe Camilla or what? I mean, MU would rather have their servant as a pair-up partner because of the servant's individual skill.

Has anybody really managed to turn Leo into a second Xander of sorts anyway? He hasn't been as good as the other siblings in my experience, and maybe that's why I'm thinking a utility role for him would be more effective to the army.

Treat Leo the way you treat Marx (speedwings, +Spd support), and you'll get more or less the same unit. The difference between them is actually sorta big in IK in Leo's favor because with Exorcist Sakura support and Horse God access Leo ORKOs more enemy types at base than Marx, resulting in Leo gaining exp quicker.

[Tooru]

I see the route you're talking about and I wonder why I've never tried it.

Also yes, visiting 3 is the same as 5. I tend to visit the initial one, the lower left one and the lower middle one, skipping the northmost one and the middle right one entirely. But I just realized a different route I could take now.

I have the same visitings as you so I don't know what is the different route XD.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Tooru

[avengerfive]

A -/20 Leo is 1 spd from capping (on average), so if you can get him a speedwing he should cap his speed. How many speedwings so you get in Nohr? Is it 3? You can give 2 to Xander and 1 to Leo then.

[Shephen]

Also worth noting is that if you pair up Odin you do get a Horse God tome out of Ophelia's paralog. You do lose out on 6 mt over Brunnhilde, but Leo's mag is high enough already where he will still ORKO and the boosts from the tome are really good. Granted it requires using/deploying Odin long enough for a pairing to happen and Leo can live with out it, but it is nice and lets you put the speed wings else where.

[astrophys]

Speaking of using/Deploying Odin to get him paired for Ophelia/her chapter and getting a Horse God spell for Leo that way, if you were using Odin for such a purpose, whom would you give him to from a practicality standpoint?

[Espinosa]

^ If you simply promote him to a Sorc/Dark Knight, Camilla, MU or Nyx could want a +mag support partner (S-rank Sorc gives +7 mag). If you use 1 parallel on him in addition, he could go Trueblade and grant somebody +1 str/+2 mag/+5 spd, including Elfie.

I like what I've been hearing about Leo in this thread; I'll have to try him in a Xanderish role next time I replay Nohr. Xander's excessive physical bulk also makes Leo better for making enemies want to target him, which Xander often fails to do due to taking 0 dmg from a certain number of enemy types; he's not nearly as vulnerable to tomes/magic, too!

[Shephen]

Felicia or Nyx. Doesn't really matter if your doing it just for Horse God. Sooner he gets paired off the sooner you can give the deployment slot to someone else. Unless you are looking for long term pair up fodder or using Odin himself as a main unit.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Shephen

[Shadow Mir]

I like what I've been hearing about Leo in this thread; I'll have to try him in a Xanderish role next time I replay Nohr. Xander's excessive physical bulk also makes Leo better for making enemies want to target him, which Xander often fails to do due to taking 0 dmg from a certain number of enemy types; he's not nearly as vulnerable to tomes/magic, too!

What's so bad about being ignored? I think it's not that bad, but then again, I haven't played it yet, so take that with a grain of salt... (For what it's worth, it means less ninja trouble since they won't bother to debuff if their DMG is a big fat goose egg)

Edited January 19, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[astrophys]

Felicia or Nyx. Doesn't really matter if your doing it just for Horse God. Sooner he gets paired off the sooner you can give the deployment slot to someone else. Unless you are looking for long term pair up fodder or using Odin himself as a main unit.

Well, to be honest, I also kind of want Ophelia on the Nohr playthrough to then pair her up with the Avatar. But I have little desire to use Odin himself except as a vehicle for getting Horse God and Ophelia….

[Espinosa]

What's so bad about being ignored? I think it's not that bad, but then again, I haven't played it yet, so take that with a grain of salt... (For what it's worth, it means less ninja trouble since they won't bother to debuff if their DMG is a big fat goose egg)

The problem is that enemies don't die and continue threatening the more vulnerable of your units... It also means Xander ends up facing a bunch of magic users and wielders of anti-beast weapon and skills.

What universally applies to Xander doesn't seem to apply to other units though. I often find MU being attacked for 0 damage for example. Maybe the AI is unaware of certain aspects factored in targeting, such as the servant's +def boost?

[Tooru]

The problem is that enemies don't die and continue threatening the more vulnerable of your units... It also means Xander ends up facing a bunch of magic users and wielders of anti-beast weapon and skills.

What universally applies to Xander doesn't seem to apply to other units though. I often find MU being attacked for 0 damage for example. Maybe the AI is unaware of certain aspects factored in targeting, such as the servant's +def boost?

They try to debuff you or poison you with 0 damage when you cannot counterattack.

[Duke of Dozel]

The thing about Odin is that he'll want to marry Elise in Nohr no matter what. Leo can't marry her, and no one else is really in demand for her outside of some kooky pairing choices (Kaze and Zero come to mind.) Ophelia is leagues better than her dad, especially with these growths, and the drop in skill can be fixed with a good husband. And since Odin comes pretty early, it won't be as much of a hassle to get her. The hardest part about it is that being a healer, there's no way for Elise to fight outside of reclass, meaning they gain no love points on player phase unless you use Odin, which you shouldn't if you're gonna make Ophelia a main member.

It's hard to really be "practical" with such a high cost.

[Espinosa]

They try to debuff you or poison you with 0 damage when you cannot counterattack.

In my experience, Ninja and Elite Ninja dealing 0 dmg to Xander don't bother targeting him anyway.

[Shephen]

Well, to be honest, I also kind of want Ophelia on the Nohr playthrough to then pair her up with the Avatar. But I have little desire to use Odin himself except as a vehicle for getting Horse God and Ophelia….

Then pair him with Felicia. Her bonuses help him out and she can do combat to get exp instead of being stafflocked like Elise so she can level up faster. Felicia also has the bonus of passing down the high level promoted skills relatively really early. I guess if you wanted to take Ophelia down the Swordmaster/Mixed route and save Felicia then I guess Effie works as well(though she would rather mother Lutz, but the option is out there)

[Duke of Dozel]

I'm pretty sure you don't have to sacrifice Effie's STR to make Ophelia a mixed fighter. In fact, if our growth formula is still accurate, Camilla actually balances her STR and MAG growths to 33% each. Perfectly mixed, and wyvern skills to boot. Could end up a pretty great Revenant Knight. Of course, Camilla gets nothing out of it though....Lots and lots of layers.

[Shephen]

I was thinking more in terms of getting Odin paired and benched as soon as possible since she can work on it 2 chapters earlier than Cam and Effie's use in the early game doesn't really change unless you give her Arthur to OHKO stuff and Odin isn't doing anything. Effie would put her at about 38% Str and 23% Mag. Given DW and the Spirit Dusts she could run mixed or SwordMaster pretty well and Effie could pass down Def+2 to improve Ophelia's Bulk. Felica or Nyx would be better overall though for the Sorc build and dropping Odin as soon as possible, but Physical/Mixed is an option.

[Avalanche]

What I'm about to post was originally a thread I started a little while ago. However, after Duke of Dozel directed me here, I decided to see if anyone here could help me out.

For my first playthrough of Conquest (likely on Hard/Classic), I was wondering how practical it is to recruit all of the Children without abusing My Castle Support Grinding? I don't intend to use them all, but I do want to get all of the Paralogues to at least experience every character. These are the Pairings I intend to use;

Male Corrin x Ophelia

Azura x Arthur

Jakob x Camilla

Silas x Felicia

Kaze x Mozu

Niles x Beruka

Odin x Elise

Leo x Nyx

Xander x Charlotte

Benoit x Selena

Flannel x Effie

Lazward x Pieri

Since I plan on playing Birthright, Conquest and Revelation essentially back to back, I don't mind on missing out on certain Children. However, I'm just curious if there is a way to get everyone paired in a slightly efficient manner?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Tooru]

how do you go about actually using Skirmishes in My Castle to get Support Points? Do you need to StreetPass with someone else?

We go online, search and visit other player's My Castle and battle with his army. (Not with the player, but with his AI-controlled units.)

Some players will set high Def/Res units with no weapons in their My Castle, and you can attack them as many times as you want to gain support points.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Tooru

[Espinosa]

So do we have an approximate idea of how many fights/etc. it takes for two units to move up in support rank?

[Tooru]

In my experience, Ninja and Elite Ninja dealing 0 dmg to Xander don't bother targeting him anyway.

Are these Ninjas in ch25 or final chapter?

They seems to have different AI setting due to negative chains.

[Espinosa]

Talking about the C17 (iirc?) ones here. The map with the traitorous ninja and guest Saizou.

[Tooru]

Talking about the C17 (iirc?) ones here. The map with the traitorous ninja and guest Saizou.

They ignore Benoit/Effie with Javelin and Beruka with Hand Axe when the damage is 0.

Who is the supporter in the enemy Attack Stance when they try to attack Xander?

[avengerfive]

What I'm about to post was originally a thread I started a little while ago. However, after Duke of Dozel directed me here, I decided to see if anyone here could help me out.

For my first playthrough of Conquest (likely on Hard/Classic), I was wondering how practical it is to recruit all of the Children without abusing My Castle Support Grinding? I don't intend to use them all, but I do want to get all of the Paralogues to at least experience every character. These are the Pairings I intend to use;

Male Corrin x Ophelia

Azura x Arthur

Jakob x Camilla

Silas x Felicia

Kaze x Mozu

Niles x Beruka

Odin x Elise

Leo x Nyx

Xander x Charlotte

Benoit x Selena

Flannel x Effie

Lazward x Pieri

Since I plan on playing Birthright, Conquest and Revelation essentially back to back, I don't mind on missing out on certain Children. However, I'm just curious if there is a way to get everyone paired in a slightly efficient manner?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Ok so you are gonna need to drop a few pairs considering you have 24 characters listed here. It's gonna be hard to train all the characters without grinding, which Conquest doesn't offer unless you have the DLC. You'll be spreading the exp too thin. Keep the chapter deployment limits in mind. I say a team of 14-16 should be good. Also keep in mind pairing Azura and Elise is gonna be difficult, as they are will be healing/dancing a bunch of different units. It's best to leave them unpaired.

Edit: I just realized you want all the chapters. Hmm, it might be possible if you use children paralouge to train other pairs, but I believe paralouge scale in terms of difficulty, so it can become extremely difficult.

Edited January 19, 2016 by OurBoyRoy

[Espinosa]

They ignore Benoit/Effie with Javelin and Beruka with Hand Axe when the damage is 0.

Who is the supporter in the enemy Attack Stance when they try to attack Xander?

They don't try to attack Xander at all, so there is nobody in Attack stance. Otherwise it's always the guy who is just 1 tile short of attacking, I think?

[Tooru]

They don't try to attack Xander at all, so there is nobody in Attack stance. Otherwise it's always the guy who is just 1 tile short of attacking, I think?

I seemed to have some misunderstandings due to my English...

So ch17 ninjas don't attack Xander or whoever with 1~2 range and high enough Def in your experience?