Regarding Azura A+ Hinoka

[FireRuby14]

A question regarding Azura A+ Hinoka, supposedly she doesn't get anything from her since her primary class is Songstress and her secondary is already Pegasus Knight but in other cases of characters with unique classes like Flannel for example it is supposedly confirmed that he gets Cavalier from Arthur who's primary matches Flannel's secondary Fighter, so wouldn't it be probable for Azura to get Lance Fighter through Hinoka?

If someone could check these cases for me please I'd be glad, this has been bothering me for some time.

[gayserbeam]

A question regarding Azura A+ Hinoka, supposedly she doesn't get anything from her since her primary class is Songstress and her secondary is already Pegasus Knight but in other cases of characters with unique classes like Flannel for example it is supposedly confirmed that he gets Cavalier from Arthur who's primary matches Flannel's secondary Fighter, so wouldn't it be probable for Azura to get Lance Fighter through Hinoka?If someone could check these cases for me please I'd be glad, this has been bothering me for some time.

Azura gets nothing from Hinoka, and Hinoka gets Rod Knight from Azura. Flannel gets nothing from Arthur, and Arthur gets Outlaw from Flannel.

The case of Flannel getting Cavalier from Arthur is wrong, too. If a unit will always get their Buddy's Primary Class unless their Buddy's Primary matches their own or is exclusive. Fighter is not Flannel's Primary Class and is not exclusive class, either, so a Buddy Seal with Arthur lets Flannel reclass to Fighter, even though he can do it naturally.

To clear the air:

Azura gets nothing from Tsubaki and Hinoka.

Nishiki gets nothing from Tsukuyomi and Orochi.

Flannel gets nothing from Arthur and Charlotte.

So why do all but two of the exclusive-class units have an A+ support with a unit they get nothing from? ...good question.

Edited December 24, 2015 by gayserbeam

[Tooru]

So why do all but two of the exclusive-class units have an A+ support with a unit they get nothing from? ...good question.

They just have one, while Zero has two meaningless A+.

Producers give an A+ option to every "same-gender + same-generation" support without checking it. (Kamuis are exceptions.)

Two units can A+ because they can support, and Buddy Seal is not the only thing from a support.

It is easy to understand that Zero has supports with Odin and Leo. They are lord and retainers, so of cause they will talk with each other, and they should be good teammates in combat.

[FireRuby14]

Well we have cases like Benoit who A+ two people from Nohr which gives him the same class he alread has(Fighter), Eponine who is better off A+ Velour since if she goes with Soleil she will overlap a class(Bow Knight) but if she goes with Velour she also get Hero and new class altogether, Berserker(unless you want Mercenary).

People with only one available new class through A+ in Hoshido:

Sakura A+ Hana

Azura A+ Sakura

Felicia A+ Hana

Jakob A+ Takumi(which is his only A+ that gives him a class he doesn't have)

Mozu A+ Oboro

Saizou A+ Subaki

People with only one available new class through A+ in Nohr:

Niles A+ Arthur

Gunther A+ Jakob

Azura A+ Elise

And in Revelations:

Benoit A+ Tsukuyomi

Fuuga A+ Tsukuyomi

Jakob only has Takumi and Benoit only has Tsukuyomi this is not counting Fuuga/Gunther which are lucky to even be able to A+ someone due to their limited supports(which is better than what Flora gets from Felicia, nothing.)

Edited December 24, 2015 by FireRuby14

[Dark Paladin X]

Also, another thing to note is that A+ supports, unlike S supports, is non-reciprocal, meaning that I can have the A+ support one-sided to obtain a particular class the character does not own. Using the Hinoka/Azura example, I can get Hinoka A+ on Azura to get the Rod Knight class for Hinoka, but I can also grab the Rod Knight class for Azura by getting A+ on Elise instead.

[AstraSage]

Also, the more I watch the whole Seal Reclassing in action, the more I see the Developers had set their goals too low with what the Mechanics should accomplish.

They simply wanted to ensure the all units could work with a minimum of three Class Trees in their Sets, with the First Generation ones getting their Third Tree from their Supports, the Second Generation ones getting theirs from Inheritance and Kamuisexuals having theirs from default. Any extra Tree gained from Seal Reclassing is simply a bonus the Devs assume most players would ignore and rather focus on a few key Classes given the leveling is designed to look more limited than in Awakening (and I mean it in a way that hides the true extents of the Eternal Seal's effects and makes it look like the level cap is much lower than it can be).

That said, the above goal is not well met when some First Generation characters can end up with only their Two Personal Class Trees with the wrong Buddy/Spouse combination: Sure, most can shake off a Secondary-Primary Tree overlap from their S/A+ rank by avoiding it from the their A+/S options hence why A+ ranks are flexible in their one-way nature, but then you have cases like Jakob and Benoit who are out of options if they marry the wrong girl in a Conquest playthrough.

And overall, it's also a shame that it could have been possible to implement the Seal Reclassing in a way everyone is guaranteed a Class Tree outside their Personal Class Sets from all their Support Options once knowing how (or rather, with what) the Class Checks are actually executed.

[NekoKnight]

I really wish they would have chosen a better system for passing classes in the case of redundant classes.

Like, Flannel doesn't get FIghter from Harold because he already has the class so... why not give him Harold's secondary, Cavalier? It seems obvious to me.

[Sunwoo]

I really wish they would have chosen a better system for passing classes in the case of redundant classes.

Like, Flannel doesn't get FIghter from Harold because he already has the class so... why not give him Harold's secondary, Cavalier? It seems obvious to me.

Clearly it's too over-their-heads to think of that simple solution.

EDIT: Or it was intentional. I don't know WHY, since so many characters who support one another overlap in classes.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Sunwoo

[FireRuby14]

Kinda screws up the children too, Ignis has 4 possible mothers that can pass him Trobadour(Rod Knight), those being Elise, Felicia, Effie and Charlotte. Which if going with the last two it's not really a class he will be even able to use well due to his Mag% being non-existant unless you want to try and get him Tomebreaker from Butler.

Or then you have someone like Kagerou who can have 4 potential husbands that give her Samurai, Saizou, Ryoma, Kaze and Hinata. Which makes her have to rely slightly on A+ Setsuna/Rinkah if she wants some variety on classes.

[NekoKnight]

Clearly it's too over-their-heads to think of that simple solution.

EDIT: Or it was intentional. I don't know WHY, since so many characters who support one another overlap in classes.

It's kind of interesting when you consider skill buying mechanics. Since Kamui can marry anyone, anyone can get access to basically any other class and the skills they hold BUT only on a single playthrough, or by purchasing skills. So while any character can get any skill, classes are more limited.