Kamui builds for each route on Hard/Lunatic~

[PuffPuff]

Erm, I'm not too sure that it'd be feasible to take on at that point, and even then, not everyone would have or buy the DLC...

...Or having to wait till you can get a forged E ranked weapon which they offer +10 crit evasion as well as Avatar's personnel giving that in the Final Chapter.

[Wayward Alchemist]

Wouldn't Ninja want to run -Mag over -Res because there is literally no reason not to? I mean it's a difference of 5%, but that 5% in a Defensive stat would be better than 5% off of an offensive stat that you will literally never use in this build (especially in Lunatic) because the Explosive Shuriken is better used elsewhere (namely Felicia and maybe Saizou if you use him) and Kamui isn't gonna have to kill everything unless you are soloing with him, and in that case you would probably want to Reclass to Cav for high Mov and durability, just like Chrom solos of the past.

Edited December 27, 2015 by JothTheConqueror

[MitoRequiem]

Okay I starting looking at numbers and gee Dark Mage got shreked. Spellcaster looks solid and I guess I under estimated it because I feel all the other spellcasters just suck(Well Tsukiyomi seems legit in IK not sure about Syalla cause I don't really like Tharja :< )

As far as fliers go is a flier Kamui just complete ass or decent at best?

Also I hate using the word "tier list" so i guess I'll say what do you guys think is the best classes for each route? Top 3 I'm curious.


EDIT: Also with a Spellcaster build not utilizing DLC(Like Witch) Your end class goal would be Strategist? I'm actually considering resetting my IK playthrough cause these builds seem cooler than Samurai

Also sorta kinda off-topic but If I plan to marry Marx for IK and Nohr would any of these builds fuck over Siegbert? I'd imagine not right?

Edited December 27, 2015 by MitoRequiem

[Shadow Mir]

...Or having to wait till you can get a forged E ranked weapon which they offer +10 crit evasion as well as Avatar's personnel giving that in the Final Chapter.

You DO realize that's a pretty crappy solution to critical evade woes, right...?

[astrophys]

There is a Goddess Icon in Ch.4, or so I'm told.

That's worth +4 Luck. You lose -2 Luck from the flaw.

The flaw also costs you -20% in growths, so by level 10 (where I'm told you might be at around the time of the route split, or is that Ch.7 or Paralogue 1?) you'll average having lost out on another 9 levels of 20% extra growth, or 1.8 luck.

Basically, the initial Goddess Icon once gained in Ch.4 puts you at or above the average (pre-Icon) you'd otherwise have until you get to Level 11.

I've also been told there is a Ch. 20 Goddess Icon.

Basically, overall, the average cost of -LCK in terms of Luck is 8.6 Luck by 20/15 and 9.6 luck by 20/20.

Toss on the two icons you get and you'll only be 0.6 to 1.6 behind your average values without a Luck Flaw. Of course, this is favoritism to Kamui, but he's your Lord and thus arguably is one of the best candidates for favoritism (as you have to use him anyways).

[Thor Odinson]

Wouldn't Ninja want to run -Mag over -Res because there is literally no reason not to? I mean it's a difference of 5%, but that 5% in a Defensive stat would be better than 5% off of an offensive stat that you will literally never use in this build (especially in Lunatic) because the Explosive Shuriken is better used elsewhere (namely Felicia and maybe Saizou if you use him) and Kamui isn't gonna have to kill everything unless you are soloing with him, and in that case you would probably want to Reclass to Cav for high Mov and durability, just like Chrom solos of the past.

As the person behind the +Str -Res build I would probably go for -Mag over -Res in Fate's case. The reason behind -Res over -Mag for Awakening is that I run Hero->GK/Wyvern with that build, and before I hit handaxes my only sources of 1-2 range is magical so I didn't want to fuck that over too hard vs, "eh, I'm a wyvern, magic 2-3hkos me and forged rexcal ohkos no matter what I do, just stay the fuck away". Unless you're gunning for explosive shuriken or ice tray---and you shouldn't have to considering +str is the ultimate "magic users have noodle arms" build, who cares about magic, use a needle against armors, switching to -mag is likely better here considering they dock the same stats, just in reverse.

Of course flavor-text wise I also don't wanna be seen as "not very bright" so I like -Res more in terms of that :P

ANYWAY

I recognise that Oni is not the optimal class for much, really, but aesthetically it hits everything I want, and I was wondering what would be an optimal build centered around that? I'm interested more in Shura as a class for flavor (also I just like axes), but Blacksmith DOES give me Yato access, so that's a thing.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Ownagepuffs]

+Str/-Mag or Res Oni sounds pretty derp. 60% HP/80% Str/50% Spd/60% Def is thwomp AF. 15-25% Res growth is lol but who cares. Blacksmith would he the ideal choice for Yato reasons.

+Mag Shura would actually be pretty cool though. Shura has the same +Mag growth as Spellcaster surprisingly. +Mag/-Lck Shura would have 60% Str, Mag, and Spd growths and still keep a 55% Defense growth. It's up to you.

[Thor Odinson]

I might just try both on different runs, or something. Both sounds pretty interesting. I may be the resident muscle masterrace person but that Horse God spell sounds really great

For Blacksmith, would it be more optimal to first hit Shura5 to get Ogre Strike before reclassing into Blacksmith for the rest?

Edited December 27, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Shadow Mir]

There is a Goddess Icon in Ch.4, or so I'm told.

That's worth +4 Luck. You lose -2 Luck from the flaw.

The flaw also costs you -20% in growths, so by level 10 (where I'm told you might be at around the time of the route split, or is that Ch.7 or Paralogue 1?) you'll average having lost out on another 9 levels of 20% extra growth, or 1.8 luck.

Basically, the initial Goddess Icon once gained in Ch.4 puts you at or above the average (pre-Icon) you'd otherwise have until you get to Level 11.

I've also been told there is a Ch. 20 Goddess Icon.

Basically, overall, the average cost of -LCK in terms of Luck is 8.6 Luck by 20/15 and 9.6 luck by 20/20.

Toss on the two icons you get and you'll only be 0.6 to 1.6 behind your average values without a Luck Flaw. Of course, this is favoritism to Kamui, but he's your Lord and thus arguably is one of the best candidates for favoritism (as you have to use him anyways).

Factoring out favoritism, 5 less crit evade sounds like it'd be enough that Corrin can't fight anything without the worry of eating a critical hit, particularly on Nohr, since Dark Blood loses 5% luck growth, in addition to not gaining any on promo. And as I see it, Corrin being the lord is full damn well why a Luck flaw is unacceptable.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[avengerfive]

Factoring out favoritism, 5 less crit evade sounds like it'd be enough that Corrin can't fight anything without the worry of eating a critical hit, particularly on Nohr, since Dark Blood loses 5% luck growth, in addition to not gaining any on promo. And as I see it, Corrin being the lord is full damn well why a Luck flaw is unacceptable.

It's something that needs to be tested ingame. Maybe the fortunate people that have already played the game can help us? Does Corrin face consistent chances of being critted throughout the game, with the -luck flaw?

[Shephen]

He doesn't aside from the enemies with the Crit bonuses(Trueblades, Elite Ninjas, Holy Lancer, Holy Bowman) and even then they are pretty lowish.

Edit: Also Zerkers, but you can dodge them most of the time anyways.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Shephen

[Ownagepuffs]

I might just try both on different runs, or something. Both sounds pretty interesting. I may be the resident muscle masterrace person but that Horse God spell sounds really great

For Blacksmith, would it be more optimal to first hit Shura5 to get Ogre Strike before reclassing into Blacksmith for the rest?

Ogre Strike is pretty superfluous since there isn't much Kamui can't already kill but it wouldn't hurt since you have Axe rank from Oni Savage anyway.

[Tooru]

Wouldn't Ninja want to run -Mag over -Res because there is literally no reason not to? I mean it's a difference of 5%, but that 5% in a Defensive stat would be better than 5% off of an offensive stat that you will literally never use in this build (especially in Lunatic) because the Explosive Shuriken is better used elsewhere (namely Felicia and maybe Saizou if you use him) and Kamui isn't gonna have to kill everything unless you are soloing with him, and in that case you would probably want to Reclass to Cav for high Mov and durability, just like Chrom solos of the past.

Ninja Kamui will never use Mag, but Kamui will.

[Wayward Alchemist]

As the person behind the +Str -Res build I would probably go for -Mag over -Res in Fate's case. The reason behind -Res over -Mag for Awakening is that I run Hero->GK/Wyvern with that build, and before I hit handaxes my only sources of 1-2 range is magical so I didn't want to fuck that over too hard vs, "eh, I'm a wyvern, magic 2-3hkos me and forged rexcal ohkos no matter what I do, just stay the fuck away". Unless you're gunning for explosive shuriken or ice tray---and you shouldn't have to considering +str is the ultimate "magic users have noodle arms" build, who cares about magic, use a needle against armors, switching to -mag is likely better here considering they dock the same stats, just in reverse.

Of course flavor-text wise I also don't wanna be seen as "not very bright" so I like -Res more in terms of that :P

ANYWAY

I recognise that Oni is not the optimal class for much, really, but aesthetically it hits everything I want, and I was wondering what would be an optimal build centered around that? I'm interested more in Shura as a class for flavor (also I just like axes), but Blacksmith DOES give me Yato access, so that's a thing.

Ah yeah that makes more sense. I had forgotten about the flavor text. As Owangepuffs said, Oni can do pretty much anything you want it to do. It's got a Yato option that is pretty much just Hero and also Shura has nuts growths if you play your cards right. Honestly looking into it more I'm surprised more people haven't brought it up. Also just adding another Oni line to pass around opens up a whole new can of worms by itself.

[Tooru]

Kamui has supports with all units. Many of them will offer Critical Evade when they are next to Kamui, including two servants.

If -Lck is unacceptable why not just give up this game since you cannot choose Asset and Flaw for all the other units.

[Soonaynay]

I don't really see people suggesting +Speed, even though it was one of the best assets in Awakening IMO. Does Kamui still end up doubling most enemy units w/o the speed boost?

[Eriotto]

I'm more curious about Kamui build (magic) for dark blood. With +Mag - lck he have -3 lck AND 30% for luck per lvl, this can hurt in-story when you don't want to grind or anything. Also even if i would max him this luck, for example in pvp he will probably take all those crits on the face, unfortunally.

[Shadow Mir]

Kamui has supports with all units. Many of them will offer Critical Evade when they are next to Kamui, including two servants.

If -Lck is unacceptable why not just give up this game since you cannot choose Asset and Flaw for all the other units.

Way to miss the point - I consider -Luck unacceptable because making up for lacking crit evade tends to be a tricky affair, what with the ways to work around it being rather limited. 3 base luck AND a growth in the 30s doesn't look like it'd be good enough to stave off crit rates from mooks that don't benefit from enhanced crit for all that long, unless you're willing to throw goddess icons in Corrin's direction, at least.

EDIT:

He doesn't aside from the enemies with the Crit bonuses(Trueblades, Elite Ninjas, Holy Lancer, Holy Bowman) and even then they are pretty lowish.

Edit: Also Zerkers, but you can dodge them most of the time anyways.

This is talking about Lunatic, right?

Edited December 28, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Tooru]

Way to miss the point - I consider -Luck unacceptable because making up for lacking crit evade tends to be a tricky affair, what with the ways to work around it being rather limited. 3 base luck AND a growth in the 30s doesn't look like it'd be good enough to stave off crit rates from mooks that don't benefit from enhanced crit for all that long, unless you're willing to throw goddess icons in Corrin's direction, at least.

Who cares about what it looks like?

[Shadow Mir]

Who cares about what it looks like?

I do - I'm not sure I'd want to have my main character vulnerable to crits, lest one of those awful "chance to get crit equals chance to reset" situations pop up.

[Tooru]

I do - I'm not sure I'd want to have my main character vulnerable to crits, lest one of those awful "chance to get crit equals chance to reset" situations pop up.

I don't think you have such a magical power to turn 0% into 1% or 100% just because it looks like.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tooru

[Ownagepuffs]

I don't really see people suggesting +Speed, even though it was one of the best assets in Awakening IMO. Does Kamui still end up doubling most enemy units w/o the speed boost?

Kamui has a personal speed growth of 45 which is kinda nuts. +Magic brings that to a personal of 50. Any class worth being in has at least a +10% Spd growth so Kamui always hovers from a 55% - 65% Spd growth regardless meaning they don't need much speed help. Especially with Yato boosting Spd in 2 out of 3 routes

[Shadow Mir]

I don't think you have such a magical power to turn 0% into 1% or 100% just because it looks like.

How am I supposed to tell that it actually IS when I haven't played the game?

[CocoaGalaxy]

I don't necessarily recall enemies with crit rates being an issue.

Off the vague memories I have, the only enemies in which it really matters are

1: Killer Weapon enemies (Wait they exist? I hardly remember anyway)

2: Berserkers with Roundhouse or something

Honestly speaking I don't know...

Apparently, just being in Guard Stance offers +5 CEV, for what it counts

That being said, while it's true that I've not heard of anyone saying that -luck is good, I've not heard of anyone saying -luck is bad either though.

Honestly speaking I dunno, this luck and crits thing seems to keep popping up, but I usually don't feel that it's very important, but oh well.

Well, maybe this example works against me, but here, a N25 Hard Mode Elite Ninja (31 SKL) has only 2% crit chance against Kaze, and Kaze has even less luck than a -luck avatar.

(Granted you could argue that Kaze was in Guard Stance but what can I say..)

(Also maybe to some people even 2/7% is unacceptable, and then I would have no words)

Edited December 28, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Tooru]

It looks like Ryoma in Nohr 6 should have crazy critical rate on -Lck Kamui, though we won't actually let Kamui take any hits of Ryoma.

But who cares what it looks like?