Advice for Avatar in Birthright and Conquest

[Thor Odinson]

I wouldn't describe Kamui as beefy, even while using a Dragon Stone. Surviving Ryoma is more about not being doubled than having high defense, from my experience.

ideally, but if you can't avoid being doubled, well, I've seen a kamui that was taking 5x2 from Ryouma after dragonstone, which is reasonable given enough healing items. That one would've been rekt without, haha

I mean if it's guard dragonstone and the person's already being doubled anyway that takes it down from 14x2 at least

and if not and ryouma doesn't crit/astra your face in, 10 is still more preferable than 14?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Tooru]

ideally, but if you can't avoid being doubled, well, I've seen a kamui that was taking 5x2 from Ryouma after dragonstone, which is reasonable given enough healing items. That one would've been rekt without, haha

I mean if it's guard dragonstone and the person's already being doubled anyway that takes it down from 14x2 at least

and if not and ryouma doesn't crit/astra your face in, 10 is still more preferable than 14?

The room reduces damage a lot, so having 9 less Def doesn't make you receive 9 more damage.

[Thor Odinson]

The room reduces damage a lot, so having 9 less Def doesn't make you receive 9 more damage.

oh? how much does it reduce then

Is it a percentage or something? Because mathematically a flat damage reduction would still hold.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[MitoRequiem]

Maybe, but honestly, I think Dragonstones fall victim to "Awesome But Impractical" big time. They're good for finishing off weakened enemies, and not much else, unfortunately...

Not sure if I worded my last post correctly but I pretty much meant Dragonstones are pretty strong for early game chapters till you actually get useful units, Cause you'll straight up one shot stuff as +Mag Kamui. Once you switch your class to Spellcaster or whatever you want when you run +Mag Dragonstones become not needed of course as they sorta suck in this game.

When I run +STR I usually keep a parallel Seal on me and second seal immediately after level 10 to whatever I'm going(Usually Samurai and Ninja) and for the most part dodge everything with Joker/Felicia pairup(Joker pairup being slightly better for that)

I haven't tried +DEF myself but I don't think it's "needed" in this game like it was in Awakening for Lunatic.

[Shadow Mir]

Not sure if I worded my last post correctly but I pretty much meant Dragonstones are pretty strong for early game chapters till you actually get useful units, Cause you'll straight up one shot stuff as +Mag Kamui. Once you switch your class to Spellcaster or whatever you want when you run +Mag Dragonstones become not needed of course as they sorta suck in this game.

When I run +STR I usually keep a parallel Seal on me and second seal immediately after level 10 to whatever I'm going(Usually Samurai and Ninja) and for the most part dodge everything with Joker/Felicia pairup(Joker pairup being slightly better for that)

I haven't tried +DEF myself but I don't think it's "needed" in this game like it was in Awakening for Lunatic.

For just how long, though? Either way, it doesn't change the fact that Dragonstones are extremely situational - so much so, in fact, it could be argued they're useless.

WRT pair up, I feel it's worth stressing that the downsides to pair up are actually significant this time around... Badically, whilst Felicia and Jakob's personals might be helpful, that doesn't justify using them as hard supports imo.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Tooru]

So-called "one-shot" for +Mag Kamui is: the whole army will ORKO many enemies.

Changing an adjacent ally's current weapon is still a thing, so it is always easy for +Mag Kamui to trigger battles by Yato but use Dragonstone for other units' Attack Stance.

There are always situations where Dragonstone has better use than Yato, as well as situations where Yato or none of them is useful.

It is not a bad thing to have more choices, especially if you don't feel proud for skipping challenging parts of a chapter.

Dragonstone is the best weapon in Lunatic Nohr 10. <- Any arguments?

I know we can beat the chapters without Dragonstone/Dard Prince(ss), but I doubt that the results will be better.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Tooru

[Shadow Mir]

So-called "one-shot" for +Mag Kamui is: the whole army will ORKO many enemies.

Changing an adjacent ally's current weapon is still a thing, so it is always easy for +Mag Kamui to trigger battles by Yato but use Dragonstone for other units' Attack Stance.

There are always situations where Dragonstone has better use than Yato, as well as situations where Yato or none of them is useful.

It is not a bad thing to have more choices, especially if you don't feel proud for skipping challenging parts of a chapter.

Dragonstone is the best weapon in Lunatic Nohr 10. <- Any arguments?

I know we can beat the chapters without Dragonstone/Dard Prince(ss), but I doubt that the results will be better.

Yeah, never mind the fact that not only is it inconvenient as all hell to have to waste other units' turns for the sake of swapping weapons, there are some situations where it might not even be possible.

[gayserbeam]

Yeah, never mind the fact that not only is it inconvenient as all hell to have to waste other units' turns for the sake of swapping weapons, there are some situations where it might not even be possible.

When Corrin is standing around in position to assist with Attack Stance, the unit who is attacking can initiate a trade to change Corrin's equipped weapon. So it isn't a turn wasted. I don't think Tooru was talking about sending a unit over to switch Corrin's weapon around out of the blue.

Also, for much of early game Hoshido, Stone!Corrin is the closest thing to a defensive unit you have and has some use as a wall. It also helps in situations in Nohr where you don't have enough walls yet (like Chapter 10). It's definitely limited and situational, perhaps overly so, but there are certainly times where you want to be a chunky wall who doesn't ORKO their opponents.

Edited January 10, 2016 by gayserbeam

[Tooru]

Yeah, never mind the fact that not only is it inconvenient as all hell to have to waste other units' turns for the sake of swapping weapons, there are some situations where it might not even be possible.

What the hell is it?

A unit moves, changes his Attack Stance supporter's weapon and then attacks. Nobody is wasting turns unless "wasting turns = attack" or "wasting turns = ORKO".

Edited January 10, 2016 by Tooru

[Shadow Mir]

When Corrin is standing around in position to assist with Attack Stance, the unit who is attacking can press X or Y in battle preview to change Corrin's weapon. So it isn't a turn wasted. I don't think Tooru was talking about sending a unit over to switch Corrin's equipped weapon.

Also, for much of early game Hoshido, Stone!Corrin is the closest thing to a defensive unit you have and has some use as a wall. It also helps in situations in Nohr where you don't have enough walls yet (like Chapter 10). It's definitely limited and situational, perhaps overly so, but there are certainly times where you want to be a chunky wall who doesn't ORKO their opponents.

What the hell is it?

A unit moves, changes his Attack Stance supporter's weapon and then attacks. Nobody is wasting turns unless "wasting turns = attack" or "wasting turns = ORKO".

Because Corrin's always gonna be positioned such that whoever attacks will be taking advantage of Attack Stance, right?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Tooru]

Because Corrin's always gonna be positioned such that whoever attacks will be taking advantage of Attack Stance, right?

When Corrin is in that position, dragonstone will be good for Attack Stance.

When Corrin isn't, by no means dragonstone is bad but something else are good, since Corrin is not using any of them.

Actually you are saying something like "Kamui's dragonstone is useless for a battle where Kamui doesn't exist".

Aren't all of Kamui's weapons useless in this case?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Tooru

[MitoRequiem]

Not sure if you choose to ignore me saying Dragonstones are a strong early game item Levant but thats what im trying to tell you lol. Yato isnt all that useful early game at least with +Mag outside of ORing some Archers.

Also i said in my last post you'd ideally keep using Dragonstones till you got useful units and class changed to whatever you want. Which is usually around Chapter 8~12 honestly the beauty about Yato though its useful without being equiped which makes stuff like Spellcaster(Ending in Dark Blood or Exorcist ) and Ninja really strong

I think they're useless late and post game but honestly I havent tested them with my +Mag build late/post they probably pack quite the punch but obviously it'd be better to use like a Tome or Yato unless you just wanna tank.

Edited January 10, 2016 by MitoRequiem

[Byleth]

When Corrin is standing around in position to assist with Attack Stance, the unit who is attacking can press X or Y in battle preview to change Corrin's weapon. So it isn't a turn wasted. I don't think Tooru was talking about sending a unit over to switch Corrin's equipped weapon.

Also, for much of early game Hoshido, Stone!Corrin is the closest thing to a defensive unit you have and has some use as a wall. It also helps in situations in Nohr where you don't have enough walls yet (like Chapter 10). It's definitely limited and situational, perhaps overly so, but there are certainly times where you want to be a chunky wall who doesn't ORKO their opponents.

So-called "one-shot" for +Mag Kamui is: the whole army will ORKO many enemies.

Changing an adjacent ally's current weapon is still a thing, so it is always easy for +Mag Kamui to trigger battles by Yato but use Dragonstone for other units' Attack Stance.

There are always situations where Dragonstone has better use than Yato, as well as situations where Yato or none of them is useful.

It is not a bad thing to have more choices, especially if you don't feel proud for skipping challenging parts of a chapter.

Dragonstone is the best weapon in Lunatic Nohr 10. <- Any arguments?

I know we can beat the chapters without Dragonstone/Dard Prince(ss), but I doubt that the results will be better.

Wow so now we can change other unit weapon in attack stance eventhough that unit already finished its turn? That's news to me

[GoXDS]

Wow so now we can change other unit weapon in attack stance eventhough that unit already finished its turn? That's news to me

even then, you can trade, take away the equipped weapon so it'll autoequip the next weapon, then trade back the first weapon, so you effectively swapped it. trading does not end turn, either

[Tooru]

even then, you can trade, take away the equipped weapon so it'll autoequip the next weapon, then trade back the first weapon, so you effectively swapped it. trading does not end turn, either

You can do this in fewer steps: "trade item" -> choose the ally's weapon -> choose the ally's another weapon -> "attack".

Wow so now we can change other unit weapon in attack stance eventhough that unit already finished its turn? That's news to me

I don't understand what gayserbeam said... X/Y changes our own weapons.

To change ally's weapon you need to use "Trade". This has been doable in FE series for a long time.

You can "Trade" once.

You can use "Supply Convoy" once if you are next to Avatar or you are Avater.

You can trade unit once. (switch supporters of two pair-ups, or give/get a supporter to/from another unit.)

These won't finish your turn even if you have done all of them. After these you cannot move or cancel, but you can use commands like "Attack", "Wait" or "Rally" right now.

If you are in a pair-up, you can "Switch" your leader&supporter infinite times.

After this you cannot move, but you can attack/wait/... right now.

You can also "Cancel" unless you have done something like "Trade".

Edited January 10, 2016 by Tooru

[gayserbeam]

You can do this in fewer steps: "trade item" -> choose the ally's weapon -> choose the ally's another weapon -> "attack".

I don't understand what gayserbeam said... X/Y changes our own weapons.

To change ally's weapon you need to use "Trade". This has been doable in FE series for a long time.

You can "Trade" once.

You can use "Supply Convoy" once if you are next to Avatar or you are Avater.

You can trade unit once. (switch supporters of two pair-ups, or give/get a supporter to/from another unit.)

These won't finish your turn even if you have done all of them. After these you cannot move or cancel, but you can use commands like "Attack", "Wait" or "Rally" right now.

If you are in a pair-up, you can "Switch" your leader&supporter infinite times.

After this you cannot move, but you can attack/wait/... right now.

You can also "Cancel" unless you have done something like "Trade".

Brain fart, edited. Regardless, you can change a neighbouring unit's weapon before performing an action via the trade command, like you could always do.

Also, what is the point of arguing whether the Dragonstone is worth it or not when:

1) The first on is free

2) It's the first magic weapon you get so +MAG Kamui is probably going to use it regardless

3) During chapters 5-8 you have so few items that it isn't competing for inventory space

4) You can reclass as soon as you reach My Castle in Chapter 7 (you'll probably wait for Dragon Fang if you are below level ten though)

5) Corrin has the Convoy and therefore infinite inventory space, so you never need to worry that the Dragonstone in your inventory is filling a slot you could use for something else

Edited January 10, 2016 by gayserbeam

[Rin]

+Str/-Luck Cavalier for Kaze

+Str/-Luck Ninja for Takumi

+Str/-Luck Samurai for Xander

+Mag/-Luck Spell Caster for Leo

Excuse me, I just did some research and I saw that Kaze should buddy with Silas/Marx anyway (since buddying Saizou gives him nothing), so I assume he probably doesn't even need Cavalier from his spouse, is that correct?

If so, what else could he possibly need, then?

Also, for the Flaw, doesn't Midoriko need that Luck stat capped as much as possible to make use of her personal skill Lucky Charm?

As for Takumi, why does he need Ninja? Maybe, um, for Kisaragi's skill inheritance?

I'm sorry for the silly questions. Thank you very much in advance.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Rin

[Tooru]

Excuse me, I just did some research and I saw that Kaze should buddy with Silas/Marx anyway (since buddying Saizou gives him nothing), so I assume he probably doesn't even need Cavalier from his spouse, is that correct?

If so, what else could he possibly need, then?

Also, for the Flaw, doesn't Midoriko need that Luck stat capped as much as possible to make use of her personal skill Lucky Charm?

As for Takumi, why does he need Ninja? Maybe, um, for Kisaragi's skill inheritance?

I'm sorry for the silly questions. Thank you very much in advance.

Lucky Charm works as "Lck% + 20%", not "Lck% X 1.2".

Having higher Lck doesn't make Lucky Charm more efficient for combat.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Tooru

[Shadow Mir]

Not sure if you choose to ignore me saying Dragonstones are a strong early game item Levant but thats what im trying to tell you lol. Yato isnt all that useful early game at least with +Mag outside of ORing some Archers.

Also i said in my last post you'd ideally keep using Dragonstones till you got useful units and class changed to whatever you want. Which is usually around Chapter 8~12 honestly the beauty about Yato though its useful without being equiped which makes stuff like Spellcaster(Ending in Dark Blood or Exorcist ) and Ninja really strong

I think they're useless late and post game but honestly I havent tested them with my +Mag build late/post they probably pack quite the punch but obviously it'd be better to use like a Tome or Yato unless you just wanna tank.

I'm not ignoring that - I did mention they're good for finishing attacks - but I just don't think they have much more merit than that.

[Tooru]

I'm not ignoring that - I did mention they're good for finishing attacks - but I just don't think they have much more merit than that.

For +Mag Kamui, 90% attacks are finishing attacks in early chapters. The 10% are about tanking where Dragonstone and Yato both have their advantages.

For +Mag Kamui's allies, they either 1RKO or 2RKO enemies so more than half of their attacks are finishing attacks.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Tooru

[Thor Odinson]

As for Takumi, why does he need Ninja? Maybe, um, for Kisaragi's skill inheritance?

I'm sorry for the silly questions. Thank you very much in advance.

Copycat, mainly. You get 2 Fuujin Yuumi for the price of 1. Herb Merchant might be a stronger option than Ninja IF you care about postgame because Extravagance access (and still gets puppeteer, which is the main thing), while FeMui can nab Ninja as a class off of Kagerou A support should she want to go in it herself.

If you only care about main game though, Ninja's a much better class to actually be in than Herb Merch.

[Rin]

Lucky Charm works as "Lck% + 20%", not "Lck% X 1.2".

Having higher Lck doesn't make Lucky Charm more efficient for combat.

Wow. Isn't it a little bit too op? Even Hoshido skill only has +10% skill activation. If those stacks, does it mean Midoriko can be a really scary Lethality user?

Copycat, mainly. You get 2 Fuujin Yuumi for the price of 1. Herb Merchant might be a stronger option than Ninja IF you care about postgame because Extravagance access (and still gets puppeteer, which is the main thing), while FeMui can nab Ninja as a class off of Kagerou A support should she want to go in it herself.

If you only care about main game though, Ninja's a much better class to actually be in than Herb Merch.

Thank you! I just noticed one thing; if skills can be easily purchased via My Castle, does it mean that pairing, buddying and skill inheritance have less meaning now, and only stat cap matter? (Growth also for non-grind playthroughs).

Edited January 11, 2016 by Rin

[Thor Odinson]

Wow. Isn't it a little bit too op? Even Hoshido skill only has +10% skill activation. If those stacks, does it mean Midoriko can be a really scary Lethality user?

Thank you! I just noticed one thing; if skills can be easily purchased via My Castle, does it mean that pairing, buddying and skill inheritance have less meaning now, and only stat cap matter? (Growth also for non-grind playthroughs).

Lethality works off Skl so Lucky Charm doesn't affect that. Miracle is generally the biggest beneficiary of Lucky Charm, as well as some farming skills.

You can still only purchase skills from the same character on to the same character, so hacking aside, if it's something that character can't get naturally, it won't fly. I suppose it's there to make postgame skillhunt simpler, especially considering very expensive eternal seals aside, levels are no longer unlimited.

Mind, the cost of skill purchase can get pretty steep especially later on, so it may not be too practical to buy skills for more than a few units. I suppose getting copycat on Ryouma means you win the game, but having Ryouma also means you win the game so not like that makes a difference.

[astrophys]

BIRTHRIGHT

Although it isn't magical like I was originally envisioning, I was thinking over some builds (and using the stat calculator from the link that was posted on /r/fireemblem earlier), +STR/-LCK Cavalier seems like it might address some of my concerns of class synergy with my intended wife for my Avatar and for utilizing Yato to take down the final boss quickly.

My only concern is whether giving the Avatar two parallel seals and a marriage over the course of the game is too excessive.

+STR/-LCK Avatar, Cavalier Secondary, marry Matoi

Nohr Prince --> Parallel Seal to Cavalier --> Promote to Paladin ---> Marriage Seal to Pegasus ---> Parallel Seal to Great Knight

The idea is to pick up the following set of skills:

1. Dragon Fang

2. Open Assault

3. Defender

4. Swallow Strike

5. Luna

NOTE: ALL ESTIMATED STATS ARE AVERAGES

Estimated end stats: 42 HP, 35 Str, 10 Mag, 27 Skill, 24 Speed, 16 Luck, 27 Def,12 Res

Because of Defender and Omega Yato equipped, this goes to:

42 HP, 40 Str, 11 Mag, 28 Skill, 30 Spd, 17 Luck, 27 Def, 12 Res

If I assume Falcon Warrior Oboro!Matoi as his pair-up, then I get +1 Skil, +3 Speed, +1 Luck, +3 Def, +3 Res, +1 Move.

+STR/-LCK Great Knight w/Defender Kamui w/Omega Yato euqipped w/Falcon Warrior Oboro!Matoi:

42 HP, 40 Str, 11 Mag, 29 Skl, 33 Spd, 18 Luck, 30 Def, 15 Res

Swallow Strike gives +5 attack speed on player phase, so 38 Attack Speed, enough to double the final boss of Hoshido, even when debuffed+danced for….

Yato has 16 Might, I've already accounted for Defender and the Yato STR bonus, and Open Assault will give +3 more damage… B-rank swords is worth +2 more…. this gets us easily up to 61 Attack. 63 attack is the amount need to deal 20 damage through Dragonskin vs. the highest DEF final boss in the game, so a tonic or Hinoka's bonus easily accounts for this….

Basically, its a build that has enough HP to survive a hit from the final boss, it can on average double the final boss without the use of tonics (instead exploiting Defender + Swallow Strike + Pegasus pair-up), and even if it does fall short we still have tonics as a fall-back patch-up option. +STR Great Knight ending class gives huge attack power, which combined with Open Assault, Defender, and the large Yato might lets him cut through DEF fairly easily; this isn't even yet considering that this build gets two proc skills, Dragon Fang and Luna. Hinoka + Tonic along pushes the average to 65, giving us more wiggle room in case of below average results.

Going into Cavalier/Paladin is also important earlier on for building a lance rank on Kamui so that he can pick up Swallow Strike form Matoi for a few levels without losing a ranked weapon, as he'll have had tons of time to build up lance rank in Cavalier/Paladin beforehand.

What do you think of the build idea?

[Rin]

Lethality works off Skl so Lucky Charm doesn't affect that. Miracle is generally the biggest beneficiary of Lucky Charm, as well as some farming skills.

You're right! I'm sorry, I recall it wrong.

You can still only purchase skills from the same character on to the same character, so hacking aside, if it's something that character can't get naturally, it won't fly. I suppose it's there to make postgame skillhunt simpler, especially considering very expensive eternal seals aside, levels are no longer unlimited.

Mind, the cost of skill purchase can get pretty steep especially later on, so it may not be too practical to buy skills for more than a few units. I suppose getting copycat on Ryouma means you win the game, but having Ryouma also means you win the game so not like that makes a difference.

Can't you just marry Takumi to Mozume (or Herb Merchant Corrin) for Extravagance, then buy it in the next playthrough? I believe it would count as natural?

Wow, Ryouma sounds really strong when you say so! (I'm so sorry if this is out of the subject, but your avatar is so adorable! Is Ryouma your favorite character? ^_^) I wonder if a Fighter like Ryouma would do well with the Corrin as his wife, or they both need a support unit instead.