Asset/Flaw Advice

[CaitlynMellark]

I am definitely not a statistical person, so I wouldn't know anything about asset & flaw stuff. Whenever I did asset & flaw, it was preference (Hp asset sucks :c thought i'd get more hp than 80 in awakening)

So I need advice for my nine character (special me got special edition before they sold out)

1.

Avatar: Caitlyn from Revelations (Will be Main)

Difficulty: Hard or Lunatic

Mode: Casual

Marries: Nishiki

Final Class: Great Lord or Witch

2.

Avatar: Lucy(fer) from Nohr

Difficulty: Normal or Hard

Mode: Classic (first & only classic ever outside older games)

Marries: Jakob

Final Class: Dark Blood or Witch

3.

Avatar: Robin from Hoshido

Difficulty: Hard

Mode: Casual

Marries: Kaze

Final Class: Dark Falcon or White Blood

4.

Avatar: Mockingjay from Hoshido

Difficulty: Lunatic

Mode: Casual

Marries: Cyrus

Final Class: Dark Flier or Golden Kite Warrior

5.

Avatar: Kitora from Revelations

Difficulty: Hard

Mode: Casual

Marries: Odin

Final Class: Dark Blood or Witch

6.

Avatar: Chase from Revelations

Difficulty: Hard

Mode: Casual

Marries: Azura

Final Class: White Blood or Lodestar

7.

Avatar: Jay from Hoshido

Difficulty: Normal

Mode: Casual

Marries: Hinoka!Kinu

Final Class: White Blood or Lodestar

8.

Avatar: Curvent

Difficulty: Hard

Mode: Casual

Marries: Luna!Velour

Final Class: Great Knight or Dark Blood

9.

Avatar: Charles

Difficulty: Hard

Mode: Casual

Marries: Kagerou!Ophelia

Final Class: Butler or Dark Blood

If any of this information seems off, I'm sorry

I'm also sorry for not exactly knowing my final classes

[astrophys]

Well, in this game, HP asset is worth +3 starting HP and +15% growth rates, as well as +5% defense and resistance growth rates.

Your Avatar by default starts with 19 HP, promoting to White Blood/Dark Blood is either +2 HP or +1 HP, and if your HP growth isn't affected by asset or flaw you have a default 60% growth rate [which becomes 75% with an asset].

Over 38 levels from 1/0 to 20/20 [the highest you can get before you're forced to use Eternal Seals, and what in many FEs used to be the maximum level], an HP asset is responsible for giving you +5.7 extra HP from growth (on average) and +3 extra HP from bases, so you end up with +8.7 extra HP on average.

A level 20/20 White Blood with no HP asset averages out at 43.8 HP (42.8 HP as a Dark Blood), so an HP asset would get you to an average of 52.5 HP at 20/20, so its almost a 20% increase in your total HP, combined with +1.9 (on average) extra points of DEF and RES.

It doesn't seem that bad.

Of course, in postgame, it won't increase your maximum HP; its still +1 STR, +1 Mag, +2 Luck, +2 Defense, +2 Resistance.

[Dylos]

I'm strongly considering +Skl/-HP myself, which will give me +1 Str, -1 Mag, +4 Skl, -1 Luk, +1 Def, -1 Res for caps. It does negatively affect my HP growth, but with a lot of the classes I'd still have at least 50% HP growth honestly I'm more worried about the low Res growth...

[Tooru]

If "A or B" means both class will be used (in different chapters), most Avatars on your list need +Mag/-Lck

Edited January 8, 2016 by Tooru

[Dylos]

If "A or B" means both class will be used (in different chapters), most Avatars on your list need +Mag/-Lck

I don't know that I would say they need to be that. +Mag/-Lck is -5% Str, +15% Mag, +5% Spd, -20% Lck, +5% Res, that's a net gain/loss of 0 for growths, +Mag/-Str might be preferable, as it's -10% Str, +20% Mag, -5% Skl, +5% Spd, -5% Def, +5% Res or a net gain of 10% for growths. Heck, they could even go +Mag/-Res for +15% Mag and -5% Res.

IMO, HP, Str, Spd, Luk, and Res are the best flaws, as they are only -10% on the flaw and two additional -5%s, Skill and Luck are both -20%! on the flaw side, with additional -5%s.

[astrophys]

SPD is an awful flaw…. its too important of a stat….. and remember, there are also penalties to your bases….

[Dylos]

SPD is an awful flaw…. its too important of a stat….. and remember, there are also penalties to your bases….

and LUK isn't important? It effects hit rate, evasion, and reduces the enemy's chance to crit, all of which can be pretty important, there's also a handful of skills that Luk effects, pretty much all of which will likely never be used if luck is reduced to a measly 25% growth.

As you said, asset/flaw also affect the base stat, let's see...

• HP, Magic, Skill or Luck picked as Asset/Flaw: +3/-2
• Strength or Speed picked as Asset/Flaw: +2/-1
• Defence or Resistance picked as Asset/Flaw: : +1/-1

So judging by bases, Defense, Strength, Speed and Resistance are all only -1 to base for their stats, where as HP, Magic, Skill, and Luck are all -2. This means that if Luck is your flaw you have -2 base luck, -20% luck growth, and -3 luck cap - that's horrible, where as for a speed flaw you have -1 base speed, -10% speed growth, and -3 speed cap.

Would I recommend taking Speed over Strength? Probably not, but it's not terrible.

[Tooru]

I don't know that I would say they need to be that. +Mag/-Lck is -5% Str, +15% Mag, +5% Spd, -20% Lck, +5% Res, that's a net gain/loss of 0 for growths, +Mag/-Str might be preferable, as it's -10% Str, +20% Mag, -5% Skl, +5% Spd, -5% Def, +5% Res or a net gain of 10% for growths. Heck, they could even go +Mag/-Res for +15% Mag and -5% Res.

IMO, HP, Str, Spd, Luk, and Res are the best flaws, as they are only -10% on the flaw and two additional -5%s, Skill and Luck are both -20%! on the flaw side, with additional -5%s.

You are saying Odin is better any other units who don't have Aptitude XD

[Dylos]

You are saying Odin is better any other units who don't have Aptitude XD

If he had the class options of the Avatar, he would be.

[Tooru]

If he had the class options of the Avatar, he would be.

No he wouldn't.

Dark Knight!Avatar is very good but Dark Knight!Odin isn't.

If total growth is everything, Odin should outclass almost everyone.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Tooru

[astrophys]

Stats are not created equal.

SPD is a far more significant stat than LCK. 1 point of SPD is not of the same value as 1 point of LCK.

I would indeed argue that -1 base speed, -10% speed growth, and -3 speed cap is FAR worse [more hurtful to you] than -2 base luck, -20% luck growth, and -3 luck cap.

​SPD is related to doubling your offense, preventing yourself from taking double damage, and evasion.

Luck's influence on hit and avoid is weak: 0.5 hit per luck (vs. 1.5 hit per skill), 0.5 avoid per luck (vs. 1.5 avoid per speed). Luck in this game gives 0.5 critical evasion per point of luck, and Guard Stance is already +5 critical evasion. You also have personal skill's like Lutz' lucky soul and you have attack stance luck bonuses.

[Duke of Dozel]

Go +SPD/-RES or MAG. Most kids don't want a magic mom and the magic classes aren't that great anymore. Stick to physical.

-3/-1 MAG, +2 SKL, +3 SPD, +2 LUK, -3/-1 RES

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know that I would say they need to be that. +Mag/-Lck is -5% Str, +15% Mag, +5% Spd, -20% Lck, +5% Res, that's a net gain/loss of 0 for growths, +Mag/-Str might be preferable, as it's -10% Str, +20% Mag, -5% Skl, +5% Spd, -5% Def, +5% Res or a net gain of 10% for growths. Heck, they could even go +Mag/-Res for +15% Mag and -5% Res.

IMO, HP, Str, Spd, Luk, and Res are the best flaws, as they are only -10% on the flaw and two additional -5%s, Skill and Luck are both -20%! on the flaw side, with additional -5%s.

Sorry, but as stated before, not all stats are created equal - a speed flaw is about the worst possible thing you can do to your character. An HP flaw ain't much better.

Stats are not created equal.

SPD is a far more significant stat than LCK. 1 point of SPD is not of the same value as 1 point of LCK.

I would indeed argue that -1 base speed, -10% speed growth, and -3 speed cap is FAR worse [more hurtful to you] than -2 base luck, -20% luck growth, and -3 luck cap.

​SPD is related to doubling your offense, preventing yourself from taking double damage, and evasion.

Luck's influence on hit and avoid is weak: 0.5 hit per luck (vs. 1.5 hit per skill), 0.5 avoid per luck (vs. 1.5 avoid per speed). Luck in this game gives 0.5 critical evasion per point of luck, and Guard Stance is already +5 critical evasion. You also have personal skill's like Lutz' lucky soul and you have attack stance luck bonuses.

I agree that not all stats are created equal, but still, as I see it, the ways of making up for lacking crit evade are rather limited in terms of practicality for the most part.

[avengerfive]

Asset: Str, Mag, Spd

Flaw: Luck or Res

[Tooru]

I agree that not all stats are created equal, but still, as I see it, the ways of making up for lacking crit evade are rather limited in terms of practicality for the most part.

-Lck doesn't result in "lacking crit evade".

Go +SPD/-RES or MAG. Most kids don't want a magic mom and the magic classes aren't that great anymore. Stick to physical.

-3/-1 MAG, +2 SKL, +3 SPD, +2 LUK, -3/-1 RES

There are so many "or Witch" in the list... I don't think a Witch can stick to physical.

If somebody really wants to use magic classes, +Mag is the most practical because "magic classes aren't that great anymore".

[Shadow Mir]

-Lck doesn't result in "lacking crit evade".

Well, my definition of "lacking crit evade" and yours are different then. That can't be helped. As I see it, if I'm routinely facing crit chances without needing to use guard stance (which has non-negligible downsides in this game, unlike in Awakening) or needing to use crit evade boosting weapons, most of which are weak or terrible, that's "lacking crit evade".

[Dylos]

Here's the growths I recommended, verses the ones that Tooru reccomended

+Mag/-Str (me)
45 35 50 35 50 45 35 25
+Mag/-Luk (Tooru)
45 40 45 40 50 25 35 30

Here's the base:

+Mag/-Str

19 6 6 7 6 5 6 2

+Mag/-Luk

19 7 6 7 6 3 6 2

Here's the caps:

+Mag/-Str

0 -3 +4 -1 +2 0 -1 +2

+Mag/-Luk

0 -1 +3 0 +2 -3 0 +2

Are all arranged in HP, Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Luk, Def, Res order

Now, I'm not going to say that +Mag/-Str is the best option for every avatar that the OP listed, but for the ones with that were supposed to be more magical and less physical, it's a better choice IMO then -Luk.

Sorry, but as stated before, not all stats are created equal - a speed flaw is about the worst possible thing you can do to your character. An HP flaw ain't much better.

What's wrong with an HP flaw? It hardly does anything to caps, so I expect your issue is with the HP growth being lowered?

[avengerfive]

Tbh OP you have so many "or" options that it's kinda hard to help. Like Great Lord or Witch? Ones a magical class that wants +Mag and the other is a physical class that would like +Str. Unless you want advice for every single class, but that a lot of work.

Also, you didn't specify whether these are for multiplayer or main story (grind or no grind)

Edited January 8, 2016 by R O Y B O Y S

[Shadow Mir]

What's wrong with an HP flaw? It hardly does anything to caps, so I expect your issue is with the HP growth being lowered?

Exactly - that has adverse effects on durability, and that's ignoring that it also hits your Defence and Resistance growths, AND the fact that it also lowers your base HP.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[astrophys]

A default Avatar has a 30% MAG growth…

+MAG can bring it up to 50%… -LCK/-RES can bring it down from that to 45% [but if you're running hybrid, you probably don't want -STR, -SKL could cause hit-rate issues and basically hugely nerfs skill activations, -SPD would be a bad idea [+MAG offsets it, but I still wouldn't advise it at all]. -HP is asking to become even frailer (concerns of getting 1-shot by the final boss). -DEF gives you maximum offenses (45% STR, 50% Magic), but also raises major concerns about durability.

So, if we do a 45% Mag combination…. that's just less than the personal rates that Sakura/Nyx get at 50%, but better than Tsukuyomi's 40% and equal to Saizou's 45%. Accounting for class growths, you'd have the same rate as Tsukuyomi at first: 45% + 10% = 55 vs. 40%+15% = 55%.

You won't be as high as Sakura or Nyx, but you'll have superior physical options to fall back on (and Yato)…. you also aren't' nearly as high as Orochi's 65% personal (80% with class), but she's horrendously slow… 15% personal + 15% class = 30%, less than Tsubaki, and she doesn't even have Swallow Strike to help her out early in the game. In contrast, +MAG/-LCK gives you something like 50% personal speed (45%+5%) and your starting class has 10% class speed, for a total 60% speed growth. That's the same growth rate that Pegasus Hinoka has (50%+10% = 45%+15%).

[Dylos]

Exactly - that has adverse effects on durability, and that's ignoring that it also hits your Defence and Resistance growths, AND the fact that it also lowers your base HP.

What if it was paired with +Def or +Res? Would that make -HP a better choice?

The reason I like -HP is that even with -HP, most classes still have 50% HP growth, sure it's not the 100+% HP growth that was in some previous games, but it's better then Gunter.

[Shadow Mir]

What if it was paired with +Def or +Res? Would that make -HP a better choice?

The reason I like -HP is that even with -HP, most classes still have 50% HP growth, sure it's not the 100+% HP growth that was in some previous games, but it's better then Gunter.

In a word: No. I don't know, but I think that might still leave you vulnerable to getting one-shotted by Zurg.

[astrophys]

+DEF offers 1 defense immediately and a 10% growth rate, which yields 3.8 more defense by 20/20 [if you get that high] for average results, making a total of 4.8…. maybe 20/15 might be more appropriate, for 4.3 defense total by that point.

-HP takes away 2 HP, drops your HP growth rate by 10%, and drops your DEF growth by 5%…. by 20/20, that's a loss of 5.8 DEF, and you've also lost 1.9 DEF/RES…. for 20/15, its 5.3 lost HP and 1.65 lost DEF

So, at 20/15, your overall survivability has dropped by 2.65 points with +DEF/-HP in surviving physical attacks. At 20/20, its dropped by -2.9 points.

The final boss has 66 attack on the highest difficulties….

As I noted, a 20/20 character in White Blood without an HP flaw or asset tends to have 43.8 HP, or 40.8 HP at 20/15. It tends to have 26.05 DEF at 20/20 or 23.55 DEF at 20/15.

Thus, your basic survival threshold ability is 40.8+23.55 at 20/15, or 64.35, which actually means at default values the boss is STILL one-shotting you at the highest difficulties….. you need tonics, pair-up, stat boosters, rallies, or RNG bless to survive, on average [fortunately, 1 HP tonic on average will do the trick]. At 20/20, you have 43.8 + 26.05, or 69.85 for your threshold, so you are actually anticipated to survive a hit of it this time. But if you are taking a -2.9 penalty, you're down to 66.95…. you need 67 HP+DEF to survive 66 ATK, and stats only exist as whole numbers… at an average 66.95 HP+DEF, you'll tend on average to have higher than 66, but on average you'll fall short of the actual full 67 [66.5 or something like that doesn't actually exist in practice during the game] that you need to survive, on average. Maybe you'll survive with RNG blessing, but the point is you'd be requiring an HP tonic even at 20/20 just to survive on average… and if you get HP-screwed…..

Of course, you can always get HP-screwed, but higher base growth rates make this far less likely.

[CaitlynMellark]

Since there seems to be some issues with my list, let me try to help it more :3

I WILL have all of the DLC, so I will be grinding (especially on Lunatic runs)

Caitlyn will most likely be Great Lord (since Nishiki will probably be Lodestar & we can Marth/Lucina it up)

Lucy is still mostly undecided, it would depend how she looks as a Witch.

Robin, also mostly undecided because in Awakening I loved Robin as a Dark Flier (Dark Falcon), but then I also liked her as Grandmaster; so I am not entirely sure if I'll like her more as a Dark Falcon or as her regular White Blood

Mockingjay will most likely be Golden Kite Warrior since I would like Mockingjay (named after the bird on the Hunger Games books) to ride a golden bird (which is what a gkw rides).

Kitora, again, unsure. I'd have to see how Witch looks on her.

Chase will most likely be Lodestar so that, like Caitlyn, he can do a Marth/Lucina thing with his wife, Azura

Jay will most likely be White Blood since I do not really think Lodestar will work for him & I don't really want Kinu as a Great Lord

Curvent will most likely be a Great Knight since he is basically my Fates Freddy ripoff. He looks like Frederick & I want to make him like Frederick. Not even on purpose, it just sort of happened.

Charles, not sure because I have not seen any Butler MUs so I do not know if they are good or not; or if they are better than Dark Bloods

As you can probably tell, I do a lot of based on look kind of things (that is why I chose Hinoka!Kinu, Kagerou!Ophelia, & Luna!Velour. They look amazing to me. Nothing about stats).

[Dylos]

It's worth noting that 4 asset/flaw pairs result in only affecting the growth of 2 stats, namely the asset and the flaw, these 4 are:

Str+/Skl-

Mag+/Res-

Skl+/Str-

Res+/Mag-

They will affect a third stat for stat caps, but only in a positive way.

This makes me think Res+/Mag- might be a good option for someone who wants to be better against mages without wanting to use magic themselves (i.e. wanting to increase Kamui/Corrin's lowest growth to get rid of his weakness to mages). Res+/Mag- is -5.3 Mag and +2.65 Res at level 35.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Dylos