Soleil Support Changed in NA/Europe Localization + Shara/Syalla Name Change

[Sunwoo]

Gay marriage is also objectively worse than straight marriage from a gameplay perspective because you get no kids and Corrin gains no class options that they couldn't gain from an A-Support with the same unit.

To be absolutely fair, isn't oni the only normal class that can't be obtained without marriage? If you're counting second generation I think there is at least one character of each gender for every class minus oni, and if you're only talking about first generation it's lance fighter and wyvern rider? (And you can choose one of the three for subclass anyway?)

Edited January 24, 2016 by Sunwoo

[nyainou]

Interesting... That's certainly something I didn't know. I'll have to... test it out some time.

I think that if I could make any changes to Fates's pairings, it would just be to allow Silas, Kaze, Azura, and Soleil as candidates. Of course, that really is probably asking a lot from a Japanese company.

I would personally also add Asyura to that list because, bias. I love him, too. Then, there's Felicia and Jakob. I believe that in the "Making of Fire Emblem" book, in Jakob's profile it was mentioned that his life goal was to "Stay by Corrin's side", and I don't recall a gender being specified. Of course, I don't recall where I got this information so take it with a grain of salt.

We do tend to group together like penguins huddling for warmth haha but despite being gay and having a lot of gay friends I have the most broken gaydar on the planet.

This is true for me, too. Except my gaydar is excellent. I think maybe only 3 out of my maybe 10-15 real life friends/acquaintances are straight. My friend group has a token straight person, instead of token gay guy. Its amazing.

[sacredenigma]

I think this is a good change that anyone could see was going to be made from a mile away given the fact that Nintendo of America was first to announce gay romances i felt it was obvious they wouldnt be okay with this support.

im not so sold on rhatja name but its okay i dont really care about names tbh as long as i like the character

Also why are some people saying that the gay support are being cancelled like Nintendo of America was first to confirm gay relationship, imo i feel like it was always the idea of nintendo of america to ask for these to be included but since the game was done by japanese people they did so little and made the support a little pandering to yaoi/yuri fans but im okay with it as long as i get some gay supports

Edited January 24, 2016 by sacredenigma

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

..Have you ever seen somebody say "certified homosexual" in a serious tone? Or better yet, "I can smell other gays?" I mean, there is scientific evidence backing up the idea that gays can smell other gays, but.. Really?

Sorry if I upset you. It's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet. I was not trying so sound rude, my question was legitimate.

In fact, I was thinking if I should've replied with a joke or not, but I didn't because I was afraid to upset you.

Edited January 24, 2016 by CrimeanRoyalKnight

[Time the Crestfallen]

I would personally also add Asyura to that list because, bias. I love him, too. Then, there's Felicia and Jakob. I believe that in the "Making of Fire Emblem" book, in Jakob's profile it was mentioned that his life goal was to "Stay by Corrin's side", and I don't recall a gender being specified. Of course, I don't recall where I got this information so take it with a grain of salt.

As options for Kamui or as gay options period? I can see all of those people mentioned above being available for Kamui (with the possible exception of Kaze), but most of them wouldn't really be 'gay' as much as it is them making an exception for Kamui. Based on personal interpretation, I've always seen it as:

Kamuisexual:

Rhajat

Felicia

Jakob

Silas

Maybe Kaze

Bisexual:

Azura

Camilla

Niles

Asyura

Takumi (I get a lot of closet Bisexual/Gay vibes from him and I have no idea why)

Orochi(?)

Gay:

Soleil

Edited January 24, 2016 by Phillius

[Ebony]

Takumi (I get a lot of closet Bisexual/Gay vibes from him and I have no idea why)

I blame stupid sexy Leo for existing.

[twice]

Based on personal interpretation, I've always seen it as:

Kamuisexual:

Rhajat

Felicia

Jakob

Silas

Maybe Kaze

Bisexual:

Azura

Camilla

Niles

Asyura

Takumi (I get a lot of closet Bisexual/Gay vibes from him and I have no idea why)

Orochi(?)

Gay:

Soleil

That's a good list!!! I feel like it is pretty accurate to be honest.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Jin

[nyainou]

As options for Kamui or as gay options period? I can see all of those people mentioned above being available for Kamui (with the possible exception of Kaze), but most of them wouldn't really be 'gay' as much as it is them making an exception for Kamui. Based on personal interpretation, I've always seen it as:

Kamuisexual:

Rhajat

Felicia

Jakob

Silas

Maybe Kaze

Bisexual:

Azura

Camilla

Niles

Asyura

Takumi (I get a lot of closet Bisexual/Gay vibes from him and I have no idea why)

Orochi(?)

Gay:

Soleil

These seem like pretty legit options, but I'd personally like to throw the "if its you its okay" trope out the window. Sure, its sweet when you first see it, but after a while it just seems like people want gay relationships with the actual gayness. Naturally, something like that kinda hurts. I'd like it if these were all actual in-game options, though. I'd slide Leo onto the gay/bisexual list though, because bias.

[Radiance]

Never thought there was ways to tell if people know other gay people. Can I have a money radar? Personally I think Soleil should be bi because she likes guys, but prefers girls. I don't mean any offense if you are gay. Do what you like and I will do mine

Edited January 24, 2016 by Radiance

[solrocknroll]

Yeah, I definitely don't care for "if it's you, it's okay" very much.

However, I would make some Kamui-exclusives like Rhajat and Jakob. I feel that it makes interesting parity to stuff like Yuugiri or Yukimura.

[Radiance]

Yeah, I definitely don't care for "if it's you, it's okay" very much.

However, I would make some Kamui-exclusives like Rhajat and Jakob. I feel that it makes interesting parity to stuff like Yuugiri or Yukimura.

That makes sense. Would be viable. They should have at least made better options

[Time the Crestfallen]

These seem like pretty legit options, but I'd personally like to throw the "if its you its okay" trope out the window. Sure, its sweet when you first see it, but after a while it just seems like people want gay relationships with the actual gayness. Naturally, something like that kinda hurts. I'd like it if these were all actual in-game options, though. I'd slide Leo onto the gay/bisexual list though, because bias.

Sorry, but Leo being a siscon is now canon.

True. Whenever the 'if it's you, it's okay' trope comes up, it always seems like it's to make sure that nobody thinks that anyone involved is actually gay, but rather that they care about that person so much that they're willing to make an 'exception' for them. The only reason I made classify them as Kamuisexual is because their constant loyalty and unwavering dedication to Kamui makes it seem like they're gay for Kamui rather than just normally gay (although you could argue that Kamui was their 'closet key' and helped them realise that they weren't straight, but idk). Although if I wasn't allowed to classify them as Kamuisexual, I'd say:

Bisexual:

Jakob

Felicia

Gay:

Rhajat

Kaze

Silas

Edited January 24, 2016 by Phillius

[gayserbeam]

To be absolutely fair, isn't oni the only normal class that can't be obtained without marriage? If you're counting second generation I think there is at least one character of each gender for every class minus oni, and if you're only talking about first generation it's lance fighter and wyvern rider? (And you can choose one of the three for subclass anyway?)

Yes, Rinkah is the only situation where male Corrin needs to marry someone to get a class. I was just commenting on how the only benefit of actually S-Supporting a same-sex units is giving them your Secondary Class.

I understand that baby steps are a thing but also half the characters in Fates are actually gay but none of the writers realize that, you can trust me because I'm a certified homosexual and can smell other gays. Silas and Kaze are totally bi and would get it with m!Corrin.

I'm jealous; I missed a letter and lost my queer certification card. Now I can only smell lesbians

[angienessyo]

Sorry, but Leo being a siscon is now canon.

True. Whenever the 'if it's you, it's okay' trope comes up, it always seems like it's to make sure that nobody thinks that anyone involved is actually gay, but rather that they care about that person so much that they're willing to make an 'exception' for them. The only reason I made classify them as Kamuisexual is because their constant loyalty and unwavering dedication to Kamui makes it seem like they're gay for Kamui rather than just normally gay (although you could argue that Kamui was their 'closet key' and helped them realise that they weren't straight, but idk). Although if I wasn't allowed to classify them as Kamuisexual, I'd say:

Bisexual:

Jakob

Felicia

Gay:

Rhajat

Kaze

Silas

Yeah, the "if it's you it's okay" trope is awful, as is any form of "but...we're both girls/boys!/but liking girls/boys is forbidden!". Or well, like 80% of the tropes that come from yuri/yaoi that I know IS will reference when writing gay relationships. And you can sign me up for bi Felicia, that's an A+ high quality suggestion.

[grayspark]

If you pronounce this name with a y-sound for the j, it sounds like "riot".

[Immahnoob]

People here really hate fantasy, don't they?

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Takumi (I get a lot of closet Bisexual/Gay vibes from him and I have no idea why)

Could be that he is the definition of insecurity, so it's possible to picture him insecure about his sexuality too. This would work well if in Hoshido there was a stigma towards non-hetero sexualities, and judging there seems to be (Rajhat support), why not?

Leo however, after the Camilla disaster, I can't picture him as anything else but straight. He seems so be a cradle of mother complexes, Freud would have a field day if he was more complex, oh God.

Regarding the "If it's you it's okay" thing...

It's the only way I can see Jakob or Camilla' sexuality.

Marrying them to anyone that isn't Corrin feels so forced (even if I surely will never marry Camilla ever), because their sexuality does not seem anything other than Kamuisexual.

They are both so obsessed with Corrin that it's puzzling to see that you cannot marry regardless of your gender.

In fact, their C-A support are the same for both genders, and they have multiple supports showing how much they love Corrin, or, in Jakob's case, how much he despises anyone else.

[NekoKnight]

I feel like "If it's you, it's okay" should be only used sparingly, not just for characters who are defined by their worship of another character or characters you want to have a gay pairing without making them full on bisexual. Utilization of the trope should be reserved for people who have a genuine connection that transcends gender and sexuality. Speaking of "genuine connections", it's possible to be the closest of friends, soul mates even, without those feeling into lust. I know Fire Emblem of late doesn't have a solid grasp of relationships that don't end in marriage but humor me.

Regarding the "If it's you it's okay" thing...

It's the only way I can see Jakob or Camilla' sexuality.

Marrying them to anyone that isn't Corrin feels so forced (even if I surely will never marry Camilla ever), because their sexuality does not seem anything other than Kamuisexual.

They are both so obsessed with Corrin that it's puzzling to see that you cannot marry regardless of your gender.

In fact, their C-A support are the same for both genders, and they have multiple supports showing how much they love Corrin, or, in Jakob's case, how much he despises anyone else.

Some of Joker's supports are actually sweet and atypical of his usual contempt for others.

Edited January 24, 2016 by NekoKnight

[nyainou]

I'm jealous; I missed a letter and lost my queer certification card. Now I can only smell lesbians

Lesbians are great friends though. Our lesbian is the queen of memes and she's super fashionable. They're good to have around.

Yeah, the "if it's you it's okay" trope is awful, as is any form of "but...we're both girls/boys!/but liking girls/boys is forbidden!". Or well, like 80% of the tropes that come from yuri/yaoi that I know IS will reference when writing gay relationships. And you can sign me up for bi Felicia, that's an A+ high quality suggestion.

Agreed. Hopefully considering how fans have generally responded to the otaku-pandering, IS will try to move away from this. But at the same time, Fates is incredibly popular despite it all so they might just end up with even more otaku-pandering. I wonder if Fe15 or 16 will just be a full-on ecchi game.

[Robotic Squid]

Lesbians are great friends though. Our lesbian is the queen of memes and she's super fashionable. They're good to have around.

Agreed. Hopefully considering how fans have generally responded to the otaku-pandering, IS will try to move away from this. But at the same time, Fates is incredibly popular despite it all so they might just end up with even more otaku-pandering. I wonder if Fe15 or 16 will just be a full-on ecchi game.

*Ponders* Give it a decent enough plot, and it would probably happen. - w -;

Not that I'd mind too much. ... Kidding, kidding.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I feel like "If it's you, it's okay" should be only used extremely, not just for characters who are defined by their worship of another character or characters you want to have a gay pairing without making them full on bisexual. Utilization of the trope should be reserved for people who have a genuine connection that transcends gender and sexuality. Speaking of "genuine connections", it's possible to be the closest of friends, soul mates even, without those feeling into lust. I know Fire Emblem of late doesn't have a solid grasp of relationships that don't end in marriage but humor me.

Man, don't tell me. I will sound like a bitter veteran now, but I miss when endings were more than just lovers or marriage. I miss friendship endings or sad endings, and I miss how important some A conversations were.

Now with S supports some conversations feel like they have to go further from A, or like some units are legit flirting with married people.

I know people have a lot of fun with this stuff, but other than how I'd like the devs to focus more on other things (such as gameplay and polish), I'd also like to have characters as characters back, not playthings.

I wish I could have gay characters too, but I do not want them to be toys for the avatar to play with. I can't ask this from this game and I accepted it, I take Fates as what it is and I enjoy its now edonistic nature, but FE, FE for me was the perfect game for some legit same sex relationships WITHOUT the need of an avatar, because of the support system, because of comraderie, because the best form of romance is born from friendship and companionship, IMO.

When I was a child, I was struck by Lyon saying "I love you" to Ephraim, because in Italian, "Love" as a word is only used for romantic love, and my english was not good at all (I was 11). In my eyes, Lyon was in love with Ephraim, and it hit me so hard in the heart. I know it's not canon, but looking back at their relationship, and then seeing a worse version of Heather going HEHE GIRLS, then seeing same sex options that are clearly yuri/yaoi bait (as much as I like them), it makes me sad. And let's not talk about the joke that is heterosexual romance in these games, too. Literally everyone is forced to fall for people they wouldn't care about.

Love now feels like nothing more than a toy or a self insert fantasy in Fire Emblem. Good relationships are so far and in-between, and the absence of good friendships and the joke that is sibling love just makes things worse.

Agreed. Hopefully considering how fans have generally responded to the otaku-pandering, IS will try to move away from this. But at the same time, Fates is incredibly popular despite it all so they might just end up with even more otaku-pandering. I wonder if Fe15 or 16 will just be a full-on ecchi game.

You probably are joking, but deep down in my heart I feel like Fates: Conquest (and the other two routes to an extent) might be Fire Emblem's final swan song from a gameplay standpoint. I really fear the series, at this point, might get worse, because if we go back to something more akin to, IDK, Fire Emblem 7, that might not be enough for a lot of new fans who simply came in for the characters and the match making.

I really don't want to stop liking Fire Emblem.

POST THEME:

Guys... I'm sorry for being such a doombringer... lol... forgive me.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Leo however, after the Camilla disaster, I can't picture him as anything else but straight. He seems so be a cradle of mother complexes, Freud would have a field day if he was more complex, oh God.

Regarding the "If it's you it's okay" thing...

It's the only way I can see Jakob or Camilla' sexuality.

Marrying them to anyone that isn't Corrin feels so forced (even if I surely will never marry Camilla ever), because their sexuality does not seem anything other than Kamuisexual.

They are both so obsessed with Corrin that it's puzzling to see that you cannot marry regardless of your gender.

In fact, their C-A support are the same for both genders, and they have multiple supports showing how much they love Corrin, or, in Jakob's case, how much he despises anyone else.

Camilla is flirting/teasing Beruka in their Kozaki art and one of the lines in her profile was that she's 'fond of strong women' or something like that. If anything, she's a lesbian who'd go straight for Kamui.

Agreed. Hopefully considering how fans have generally responded to the otaku-pandering, IS will try to move away from this. But at the same time, Fates is incredibly popular despite it all so they might just end up with even more otaku-pandering. I wonder if Fe15 or 16 will just be a full-on ecchi game.

I say give IS a chance. I talked about this in the controversy thread, but I'd like to point out that we have to bear in mind the cultural differences between Japan and the West. What might be seen as fairly progressive over there might just be treading water over here and a little behind the times. Bioware's probably one of the most progressive game developers in the Western World and it took them a while to get to that. Male Shepards in Mass Effect have to wait until the game to have a relationship with another male while female Shepards were allowed to be in a gay relationship in the very first one (the time between the two being almost five years), the male bisexual option in Dragon Age Origins was a flirty former assassin who constantly makes innuendos (aka Niles without the sadism). Hell, they're not immune to this even now. In Inquisition, there's a female-to-male transgender mercenary who's gender identity is only brought up as an Author's Saving Throw so that they can make the Qun seem more progressive and sympathetic (as the Qun is seen by a large portion of the fanbase as xenophobic, self-righteous and chock-full of unfortunate implications). I'm willing to believe that FE15 will be more progressive and a step in the right direction, both in regards to gay/bisexual portrayal and for the series as a whole.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Phillius

[nyainou]

You probably are joking, but deep down in my heart I feel like Fates: Conquest (and the other two routes to an extent) might be Fire Emblem's final swan song from a gameplay standpoint. I really fear the series, at this point, might get worse, because if we go back to something more akin to, IDK, Fire Emblem 7, that might not be enough for a lot of new fans who simply came in for the characters and the match making.

I am kind of kidding around, but at this rate it might end up that way. Fire Emblem may be too deep into otaku culture and fetishes at this point. Hopefully, its not too late. I can't play ecchi games, considering I'm still a minor. I'm secretly a goody-toe-shoes who has to follow rules. By the time Fe16 or 17 would come out though I'd be old enough, though.

I say give IS a chance. I talked about this in the controversy thread, but I'd like to point out that we have to bear in mind the cultural differences between Japan and the West. What might be seen as fairly progressive over there might just be treading water over here and a little behind the times. Bioware's probably one of the most progressive game developers in the Western World and it took them a while to get to that. Male Shepards in Mass Effect have to wait until the game to have a relationship with another male while female Shepards were allowed to be in a gay relationship in the very first one (the time between the two being almost five years), the male bisexual option in Dragon Age Origins was a flirty former assassin who constantly makes innuendos (aka Niles without the sadism). Hell, they're not immune to this even now. In Inquisition, there's a female-to-male transgender mercenary who's gender identity is only brought up as an Author's Saving Throw so that they can make the Qun seem more progressive and sympathetic (as the Qun is seen by a large portion of the fanbase as xenophobic, self-righteous and chock-full of unfortunate implications). I'm willing to believe that FE15 will be more progressive and a step in the right direction, both in regards to gay/bisexual portrayal and for the series as a whole.

I really do have high hopes for the future. I know these things take time as well, but someone like me can't help but worry. I'm certainly not abandoning the series anytime soon, and I'm looking forward to the next games. Things have gotten better and there's a good chance things will only go up from here. I just hope it doesn't become an ecchi series. That would be a pretty weird progression, for one, and for two would alienate most of the fans.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Of course not ecchi like you are probably thinking, but like Fates took Awakening further, FE15 might take Fates even further. I doubt sex scenes will happen, but who's to say (clothed) body touching is not too far off? Or how we might get even worse written love relationships? What if they ditch gameplay entirely cuz that's not what sells?(so we have Empty Square maps: Powerleveling! the game) Oh lol I'm so fearful right now. I know I'm exaggerating and I still have faith in IS, but dang sometimes it's hard to not be a doombringer out of fear of disappointment.

[Immahnoob]

Who knew I'll ever see the day someone will seriously claim that because of some fanservice, they'll take out (and subsequently censor) gameplay.

You've opened my eyes to new possibilities.