pvp/late game team composition

[Raybrand]

At the moment Im making a table of which units to marry to get the strongest children to hopefully form my A-team, so for example have Ryoma marry either Kagerou or Camilla and have Kami marry one of the children units to make probably the strongest character (despite him or her being like 10-12 year old). (Im prioritising stats first then classes and skills)

But while I was making this table I didnt take into account the unique items that only characters like kami, Ryoma and Xander can equip and the stat bonuses they offer.

So I need your guys opinion, in the late game when characters are reaching their max stats can the main characters compete with the children units with their unique weapons?

What pvp team comp do you guys have?

[Time the Crestfallen]

I actually came up with something that I think is pretty game-breaking in a similar thread, so I went back and found it. Be warned though, keep a doctor on hand in case of sudden outbreaks of cancer and/or AIDS:

[spoiler=The Team]

Kamui +Spd/-Def is recommended, but not necessary (it is vital that Kamui be fed as many boots as possible).

Golden-Kite Warrior (Omega Yato, Rainbow Elixir and maybe the Battle Emblem if you can manage to get it for stat bonuses, Brave Bow for killing. The other slot is filler)

Skills: Galeforce, Flamboyant, Warp, Breaking Sky, Copycat Puppet

Azura

Songstress (Everything is filler)

Skills: Warp, Special Song, Filler, Filler, Filler

Kanna

Elite Ninja (Expert Shuriken for 3-tile range shenanigans, Needles for Generals and Great Knights and Rainbow Elixir for stat bonuses. Everything else is filler)

Skills: Warp, Copycat Puppet, Witch's Poison, Breaking Sky, Flamboyant

Two Falcon Warrior Rally Bots (At least two rescue staves each, everything else is filler)

Shared Skills: Copycat Puppet, Warp

Rallies: Spectrum, Strength, Skill, Speed, Luck, Movement

[spoiler=Now that's strategy!]

Step 1: Do the buffs (Rainbow Elixirs, Copycat's ETC)

Step 2: Use rallies

Step 3: Pair up one of the Falcon Copies with Kamui

Step 3: Move Kamui towards the enemy as far as possible (between 12-14 spaces depending on the number of boots Kamui can be fed).

Step 4: Split the pair up. Warp Azura next to Kamui and refresh.

Step 5: Move Kamui forward again without pair-up. You can move 24-27 depending on how many boots Kamui was fed, so you should be able to attack now.

Step 6: Attack the most important target. Rally-bots, Azuras, the hardest-hitting crit machine they've got, Galeforce users, whatever. If you use a brave bow, you should be able to get the kill. Especially if you use Speed asset for 4x hits.

There are two options from here.

Step 7(1): Warp away if there isn't an opportunity for a good follow up. The Falcon Puppet that wasn't used for pair up should be able to use a rescue staff on Azura and the puppet used for pair-up will be between 11-13 spaces from the enemy, so they shouldn't be able to reach it. Repeat steps 2-6.

Step 7(2): Attack again. This time though, the priority target is something weak and squishy, so even with half-strength, you should be able to kill (especially if you're attacking four times). Proceed to step 8.

Step 8: Warp in Kamui clone and both Kannas and have them either kill an enemy unit if possible (Kamui is making a full-str attack with Brave Bow, so this should be easy), or pin them in place using Kanna with the range-3 Shuriken and Witch's Poison. Assuming optimal conditions and results, this should result in them either having all their units wiped out or with only 1 or 2 living units that are pinned in place, debuffed and easy to finish off next turn.

Step 9: Season your food and drink with the salt and tears of your enemies.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Phillius

[Eriotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3UTu5aZxM

You mean this?
It's not fun at all, but if you say so~

[Time the Crestfallen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3UTu5aZxM

You mean this?

It's not fun at all, but if you say so~

More or less XD

Just add Galeforce and you're good to go!

[Eriotto]

More or less XD

Just add Galeforce and you're good to go!

if you say so, however imo defeating enemy like that isn't fun at all,

[Raybrand]

I am actually somewhat sorry I asked, having this kind of power is no fun, they should make a patch

[Time the Crestfallen]

if you say so, however imo defeating enemy like that isn't fun at all,

I am actually somewhat sorry I asked, having this kind of power is no fun, they should make a patch

Trust me, as a guy who plays Pokemon competitively, I am well aware that playing like this isn't very fun. Generally, you go into PVP with two different mindsets; you either want to have fun more than anything else, or you want to win at all costs. It's pretty safe to say that the team I posted is a win-at-all-costs team, so you only want to use something like that in Comp play (I don't think Fates will have much in the way of PVP rulesets IMO) and use something more tame in friendlies.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Phillius

[Eriotto]

I am actually somewhat sorry I asked, having this kind of power is no fun, they should make a patch

Probably only few people will use it, as i said this team is not fun at PVP so yeah.

i honestly won't use it, won't even try~

[Time the Crestfallen]

Anyway, as to the question you asked, optimised children will always be more useful than their parents in my opinion, even those with prf weapons. Kamui is an exception because Omega Yato is insane (+4 to Str, Spd, Def and Res). Here's Xander's stat modifiers compared to Charlotte!Siegbert for example:

Xander:

Str- +2

Mag- -1

Skl- -1

Spd- -1

Lck- +2

Def- +5 (+4 from Siegfried)

Res- -2

Charlotte!Siegbert:

Str- +6

Mag- 0

Skl- 0

Spd- +2

Lck- +3

Def- 0

Res- -3

So yeah, with the exception of Kamui, parents will be outclassed by optimised kids.

[Raybrand]

Anyway, as to the question you asked, optimised children will always be more useful than their parents in my opinion, even those with prf weapons. Kamui is an exception because Omega Yato is insane (+4 to Str, Spd, Def and Res). Here's Xander's stat modifiers compared to Charlotte!Siegbert for example:

Xander:

Str- +2

Mag- -1

Skl- -1

Spd- -1

Lck- +2

Def- +5 (+4 from Siegfried)

Res- -2

Charlotte!Siegbert:

Str- +6

Mag- 0

Skl- 0

Spd- +2

Lck- +3

Def- 0

Res- -3

So yeah, with the exception of Kamui, parents will be outclassed by optimised kids.

For me, the point of this thread was to tailor my campaign to get the best kids as early as possible and see how they compare with there parents, or how much better are they compared to their parents. It was obvious to me to start with but it just didnt feel right to me from a game design point. In Awakening I gave all my parent units the +2 all stats skill to even it out a bit. I think in this game I'll work out a hack for it

[Time the Crestfallen]

For me, the point of this thread was to tailor my campaign to get the best kids as early as possible and see how they compare with there parents, or how much better are they compared to their parents. It was obvious to me to start with but it just didnt feel right to me from a game design point. In Awakening I gave all my parent units the +2 all stats skill to even it out a bit. I think in this game I'll work out a hack for it

Yeah, one of my biggest gripes with the current marriage/children system is that, with very few exceptions, an optimised child will almost always completely outclass their parent. This was especially bad in Awakening where if you could get Galeforce onto a male child through inheritance, you might as well bench the father. It's less of a problem in Fates, but the crazy stat boosts you can get from Child Seals still makes it an issue to some extent.

[Raybrand]

Yeah, one of my biggest gripes with the current marriage/children system is that, with very few exceptions, an optimised child will almost always completely outclass their parent. This was especially bad in Awakening where if you could get Galeforce onto a male child through inheritance, you might as well bench the father. It's less of a problem in Fates, but the crazy stat boosts you can get from Child Seals still makes it an issue to some extent.

exactly my thoughts, I do try to get immersed with the story, so use the main characters and characters who want to fight for you but when I found out they are outclassed in nearly everyway by 'optional units' children then it counters my attempt to involve myself in the story.

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah, one of my biggest gripes with the current marriage/children system is that, with very few exceptions, an optimised child will almost always completely outclass their parent. This was especially bad in Awakening where if you could get Galeforce onto a male child through inheritance, you might as well bench the father. It's less of a problem in Fates, but the crazy stat boosts you can get from Child Seals still makes it an issue to some extent.

exactly my thoughts, I do try to get immersed with the story, so use the main characters and characters who want to fight for you but when I found out they are outclassed in nearly everyway by 'optional units' children then it counters my attempt to involve myself in the story.

That doesn't really seem to be the case in Fates, though... For one, children only have 3 class trees starting out. The father would likely have 3 or even four by that point. Second, personal skills and weapons have to be a consideration. Third, their bases will rarely be as good as their parents' and their wexp will be lower, meaning a recently-recruited child unit won't be any better than either of their parents.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Leif]

More or less XD

Just add Galeforce and you're good to go!

Galeforce is worthless in this Fire Emblem. Just as you saw above, Warp + Copycat + Azura + Witch's Poison + long-range weapons combo is the ideal way to curb stomp your opponents. Females, like in most other JRPGs, are better than males in this iteration of Fire Emblem due to Witch's Poison access.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Leif

[Shadow Mir]

More or less XD

Just add Galeforce and you're good to go!

Yeah, no. Galeforce got noifed - it won't work if you're using either Attack Stance or Guard Stance.

[Thor Odinson]

Anyway, as to the question you asked, optimised children will always be more useful than their parents in my opinion, even those with prf weapons. Kamui is an exception because Omega Yato is insane (+4 to Str, Spd, Def and Res). Here's Xander's stat modifiers compared to Charlotte!Siegbert for example:

Thing about Marx though that his stat boost is on a stat that isn't very useful in the pvp meta, while someone like Ryouma has his on a much more coveted stat and nobody in Hoshido is quite the offensive powerhouse mother as Charlotte or even Elfie (Kagerou's -1 spd after all) . Doesn't Kagerou!Shino have a very similar statline to Ryouma with Raijintou, anyway?

Edited February 1, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Leif]

The only units worth using in the PvP meta are Corrin, Azura, and any second generation unit (provided they have decent investments in speed and skill and have access to useful classes).

Second generation units have better max stats and the potential to have Nohr Prince(ss) class line skills.

Corrin is the only first generation unit that is valuable because of the Omega Yato's ridiculous stat bonuses (with the potential to negate an Avatar's asset flaw) and access to practically every skill in the game minus log-booking. He/She can overshadow Kanna this way.

Azura is useful due to warp+cloning+singing. She is not meant for combat. She needs to marry Kaze to get Copycat (without logbooking), but the rest she can learn through the DLC classes.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Leif

[Time the Crestfallen]

Galeforce is worthless in this Fire Emblem. Just as you saw above, Warp + Copycat + Azura + Witch's Poison + long-range weapons combo is the ideal way to curb stomp your opponents. Females, like in most other JRPGs, are better than males in this iteration of Fire Emblem due to Witch's Poison access.

I know, hence the spamming of rallies and other stat boosts to make the units more powerful without having to rely on pair up mechanics. You'll note that the team in the video made extensive use of logbook units (three Kannas) and I was trying to make a team that was more focused on making a select few units more individually lethal than grinding them down through sheer wait of numbers.

[Leif]

I know, hence the spamming of rallies and other stat boosts to make the units more powerful without having to rely on pair up mechanics. You'll note that the team in the video made extensive use of logbook units (three Kannas) and I was trying to make a team that was more focused on making a select few units more individually lethal than grinding them down through sheer wait of numbers.

There were only two logbook Kannas in the video. The other logbook unit was an Azura!Midoriko, which you can easily get in a play through.

You don't have to use logbook units to make a lethal team.

Abusing My Castle statues and buying skills for your units works just as well, (a bit more time consuming, though).

Logbook units are good if you want, let's say, two different Kannas.

I don't want to use logbook units since they look all weird with their green shields, white backgrounds, and lack of voice acting. I'll stick with Corrin, Azura and three second generation units.

The meta game is going to revolve around who strikes who first, so stat differences of 2-4 between units won't make THAT much of a difference.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Leif

[Time the Crestfallen]

There were only two logbook Kannas in the video. The other logbook unit was an Azura!Midoriko, which you can easily get in a play through.

You don't have to use logbook units to make a lethal team.

Abusing My Castle statues and buying skills for your units works just as well, (a bit more time consuming, though).

Logbook units are good if you want, let's say, two different Kannas.

I don't want to use logbook units since they look all weird with their green shields, white backgrounds, and lack of voice acting. I'll stick with Corrin, Azura and three second generation units.

The meta game is going to revolve around who strikes who first, so stat differences of 2-4 between units won't make THAT much of a difference.

Yeah, the logbook units stick out like a sore thumb, so I really don't want to use them. From what I've heard, the PVP is also looking very much like Rocket Tag in that whoever hits first basically wins the game unless one team has lots of Generals.

Anyway, it's a lot easier to get higher stats than you'd think. Here's an example.

[spoiler=Golden-Kite Kamui. +Spd/-Def]

Normal Stat Caps:

Str- 27

Mag- 26

Skl- 35

Spd- 35

Lck- 35

Def- 22

Res- 30

+Omega Yato:

Str- 31

Mag- 26

Skl- 35

Spd- 39

Lck- 35

Def- 26

Res- 34

+Rainbow Elixir:

Str- 33

Mag- 28

Skl- 37

Spd- 41

Lck- 39

Def- 28

Res- 36

+Statues (9 Str, 12 Skl, 12 Spd, 6 Lck, 10 Def, 1 Res):

Str- 42

Mag- 28

Skl- 49

Spd- 53

Lck- 45

Def- 38

Res- 37

+Rallies (Spectrum, Str, Skl, Spd, Lck, Mov):

Str- 48

Mag- 30

Skl- 55

Spd- 59

Lck- 55

Def- 40

Res- 39

+Special Song (Azura's refresh is used for movement):

Str- 48

Mag- 30

Skl- 58

Spd- 62

Lck- 58

Def- 40

Res- 39

+Battle Emblem (Azura's refresh is used for movement):

Str- 50

Mag- 32

Skl- 60

Spd- 64

Lck- 58

Def- 40

Res- 39

[Leif]

Yeah, the logbook units stick out like a sore thumb, so I really don't want to use them. From what I've heard, the PVP is also looking very much like Rocket Tag in that whoever hits first basically wins the game unless one team has lots of Generals.

Anyway, it's a lot easier to get higher stats than you'd think. Here's an example.

[spoiler=Golden-Kite Kamui. +Spd/-Def]

Normal Stat Caps:

Str- 27

Mag- 26

Skl- 35

Spd- 35

Lck- 35

Def- 22

Res- 30

+Omega Yato:

Str- 31

Mag- 26

Skl- 35

Spd- 39

Lck- 35

Def- 26

Res- 34

+Rainbow Elixir:

Str- 33

Mag- 28

Skl- 37

Spd- 41

Lck- 39

Def- 28

Res- 36

+Statues (9 Str, 12 Skl, 12 Spd, 6 Lck, 10 Def, 1 Res):

Str- 42

Mag- 28

Skl- 49

Spd- 53

Lck- 45

Def- 38

Res- 37

+Rallies (Spectrum, Str, Skl, Spd, Lck, Mov):

Str- 48

Mag- 30

Skl- 55

Spd- 59

Lck- 55

Def- 40

Res- 39

+Special Song (Azura's refresh is used for movement):

Str- 48

Mag- 30

Skl- 58

Spd- 62

Lck- 58

Def- 40

Res- 39

+Battle Emblem (Azura's refresh is used for movement):

Str- 50

Mag- 32

Skl- 60

Spd- 64

Lck- 58

Def- 40

Res- 39

Lol, that's the same kind of asset/flaw I'm going for for my PvP Corrin. Omega Yato is broken.

Stay the hell away from Golden Kite. It's a crap class. You're better off as a Falcon Knight.

Keep in mind that setting up those stat bonuses is pretty in a PvP setting. You're better off focusing on trying to squeeze in some rallies and special songs here and there. Use Rainbow potions only if you're REALLY far away from the enemy. For rallies, I'd focus on movement and speed and/or skill, because you want to double the enemy, have a greater likelihood of activating your skills, and/or actually reach them.

Vanished Disaster Batons are going to be incredibly useful too, so a staff user is a must.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Leif

[Dark Paladin X]

Vanished Disaster Batons are going to be incredibly useful too, so a staff user is a must.

Speaking of Vanished Disaster, is it possible to get multiple of these staves from the Weapons DLC? And where can you obtain the Rainbow Elixir?

Anyways, my ideal My Castle team is a balanced with physical dmg dealers (of various weapons), a magic dmg dealer, and a utility/healing user. However, I'm going for an all-Maid My Castle team in my Revelations run since this kind of team comp would be meta breaking.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Lol, that's the same kind of asset/flaw I'm going for for my PvP Corrin. Omega Yato is broken.

Stay the hell away from Golden Kite. It's a crap class. You're better off as a Falcon Knight.

Keep in mind that setting up those stat bonuses is pretty in a PvP setting. You're better off focusing on trying to squeeze in some rallies and special songs here and there. Use Rainbow potions only if you're REALLY far away from the enemy. For rallies, I'd focus on movement and speed and/or skill, because you want to double the enemy, have a greater likelihood of activating your skills, and/or actually reach them.

Vanished Disaster Batons are going to be incredibly useful too, so a staff user is a must.

The stats aren't particularly outstanding, I'll admit. The reason I use it for the cheese team is because it's a flying class with access to Bows, for maximum movement and the ability to attack at range without any negative penalties. I actually already have two Falcon Knights on the team as rally-bots with Copycat Puppet; one to use rallies and the other to use staves. As for the team itself so far, it's just a theory team so far. I'll probably change it quite a bit after I play a few games with it.

Anyway, what's your PVP team so far?

[Leif]

The stats aren't particularly outstanding, I'll admit. The reason I use it for the cheese team is because it's a flying class with access to Bows, for maximum movement and the ability to attack at range without any negative penalties. I actually already have two Falcon Knights on the team as rally-bots with Copycat Puppet; one to use rallies and the other to use staves. As for the team itself so far, it's just a theory team so far. I'll probably change it quite a bit after I play a few games with it.

Anyway, what's your PVP team so far?

That's a secret, buddy. ;)

I will tell you that it's an all-female team in Hoshidian classes, since they are, generally, faster and have more base skill than the Nohrian counterparts.

FYI, there is a deadly skill combo of Extravagance + Aggressor + Line of Death + Raven Strike + Copycat.

The combo gives an additional +40 accuracy and +27 attack and negates the -10 defense penalty from Line of death during Player Phase. However, you sacrifice Warp and have to have, at least, two coins in your inventory.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Leif

[Time the Crestfallen]

That's a secret, buddy. ;)

I will tell you that it's an all-female team in Hoshidian classes, since they are, generally, faster and have more base skill than the Nohrian counterparts.

FYI, there is a deadly skill combo of Extravagance + Aggressor + Line of Death + Raven Strike + Copycat.

The combo gives an additional +40 accuracy and +27 attack and negates the -10 defense penalty from Line of death during Player Phase. However, you sacrifice Warp and have to have coins in your inventory.

Yeah, I've heard of that. I liked the idea in theory, but I personally thought that crit builds with Breaking Sky were more efficient. If it's put on a sword using class, I recommend Hinata's Fierce-Blade since the weapon's might doubles (40 Might at +7 forge IIRC) when the player initiates a battle in exchange for not being able to double attack.