Dual guard vs Dual attack

[mmimzie]

Howdy all, I love your forums. I'm not much one for posting, but i love reading all of your various comments. Also sorry if this was talked about before. I did a search to find this but couldn't find anything on this, maybe i was looking for the wrong words.

I was curious what you guys think of Dual Guard VS Dual Attack. So, in a awakening pairing up is pretty much a no brainer; both units basicly always get to do thier attacks, you get a stat boost, and a small chance to take no damage. Now however, if you pair up you only get the defensive part and the stat boost.

So if i use Dual guard. The character guarding is much less effective than by themselve. Some units can dual guard okay like rinkah whoo doesn't have a great attack pprofile and works best just giving buffs to another unit, but now you can't really pair up two strong units, as the paired unit in the back will be useless.

Dual attack seems really great, but setting them up can be tough, but if you have a character who maybe can't attack some one directly due to weakness, you can use dual attack to get them to throw in some damage.

Another concern/question; do your supports gain any exp from duel guard. As far as i'm seen you only get exp when your support carries out a guard???

[Hatsuoki]

I like that it's more balanced when compared to Awakening's pair up mechanic. But honestly, I'm not sure if I like it. I like that the enemies can do it too but I don't like the unpredictability that comes with it. Sometimes I lose units simply because I can't calculate how much damage I'll actually be taking when the enemies stand next to each other.

[GoXDS]

I like that it's more balanced when compared to Awakening's pair up mechanic. But honestly, I'm not sure if I like it. I like that the enemies can do it too but I don't like the unpredictability that comes with it. Sometimes I lose units simply because I can't calculate how much damage I'll actually be taking when the enemies stand next to each other.

it's definitely requires more analysis but in no way is it unpredictable. at least it's easier now to calculate your own dmg output. ideally you should never put yourself in a situation to need a Dual Strike to survive (in Awakening) but it's always going to be luck based. or if the Dual Strike rates are reaching high values so you start to assume Dual Strikes, it may cost you dearly if you don't get it

new mechanics eliminates that chance factor so it's easier to incorporate it into our strategy now. plus you could always have a few Paired Up units take the lead.

[mmimzie]

new mechanics eliminates that chance factor so it's easier to incorporate it into our strategy now. plus you could always have a few Paired Up units take the lead.

Yeah that was kind of how i see it. Use pair up guys for your first line, and then everyone else can line up and duel strike. That said as i go through my play through i worry that those paired up will end up with lower exp than those who primarily use duel strike. With duel strikes both units get exp almost every time. Where as paired folks only get it when they guard.

[GoXDS]

the exp shouldn't really be much of a problem. I've been using a mix of both stances and all my units just promoted (Ch 16 finished). though I also try to feed kills to whoever's falling behind but even so, enemy lvls are Tier 1 ~Lvl 16 in Ch 15

Edited February 22, 2016 by GoXDS

[crazy_man]

Attack Stance really shines when using an archer, in my case Takumi with Oboro being in the front.

Oboro can tank hits pretty well (especially when using Guard Naginata), and Takumi can dish out the damage while being safe.

Plus somewhat solves the "archers are useless on enemy turn" thing.

[Elieson]

The joys of Dual attack mean that the same person can theoretically strike 4 times assuming doubling isnt occuring, in conjunction with 3 other trigger units doing their attacks. Four stastically identical units striking 7 times in total is just a neat thing to see.

Unless it happens to u

[solrocknroll]

I enjoy the way it works enormously. I like having the option to go all out offensive or to get the paired stats. The Dual Guard meter is also great. It lets me know when an attack can be nullfied

of course I'm playing Normal and I'm playing Birthright so take with a grain of salt

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Come to think of it, Awakening's Dual System sounds pretty broken on paper imo.

[crazy_man]

Especially since enemy units couldn't use it.

[Lynsanity]

Basically dual guard is the more defensive option, while dual strike gives you more damage output. I find myself using a dual guard a lot when a unit on the fragile side (like a samurai) is in a position to be hit by multiple enemies, or if I'm holding a choke point or something. Usually the enemy AI is pretty good about setting up dual attacks where possible. Fortunately, it's not that big a loss to bring a rear unit up to initiate a dual guard, since often they're a weaker unit or don't have the range to hit the attackers anyway.

Though dual guard also gives a class-specific stat boost from the guard unit, which is sometimes useful to give an initially weak unit like Mozu the extra bit of attack she needs to finish an enemy, or make a unit with low res better at taking hits from mages, etc.

I like that it's more balanced when compared to Awakening's pair up mechanic. But honestly, I'm not sure if I like it. I like that the enemies can do it too but I don't like the unpredictability that comes with it. Sometimes I lose units simply because I can't calculate how much damage I'll actually be taking when the enemies stand next to each other.

I'm pretty sure the 2nd hit of dual strikes just cuts damage dealt in half. So it would be the first unit's attack power minus your def or res, + [the 2nd unit's attack power minus your def or res] /2.

Awakening was a lot less predictable. I remember dying sometimes when unwanted dual strikes killed too many attackers on the front line, and opened up somebody to more attacks than I anticipated.

[Espinosa]

The joys of Dual attack mean that the same person can theoretically strike 4 times assuming doubling isnt occuring, in conjunction with 3 other trigger units doing their attacks. Four stastically identical units striking 7 times in total is just a neat thing to see.

Unless it happens to u

3-range weapons exist so I think it's even more than that?

[TanatatKnight]

For me, the dual attack stance seems like a more defensive option in order to set up for the enemy phrase. Unless, I placed my units correctly, it is very uncommon to use it on player phrase. Think of it like a roman formation, where the spears are lined up together to deal with oncoming cavalry units. The best defense is offense.

Dual Guard stance being able to negate Dual Attack stance seems a little unfair. Considering that dual attack don't really get the buff from their partner, plus they are always negated by anyone in Pair Up. It is better to go in a dual attack stance when you are either facing tough but alone unit, or units in attack stances (even that is quite risky), other wise Dual Guard Stance gives much better bonus.

[Hatsuoki]

I'm pretty sure the 2nd hit of dual strikes just cuts damage dealt in half. So it would be the first unit's attack power minus your def or res, + [the 2nd unit's attack power minus your def or res] /2.

Is it? That helps immensely. xD

[GoXDS]

For me, the dual attack stance seems like a more defensive option in order to set up for the enemy phrase. Unless, I placed my units correctly, it is very uncommon to use it on player phrase. Think of it like a roman formation, where the spears are lined up together to deal with oncoming cavalry units. The best defense is offense.

Dual Guard stance being able to negate Dual Attack stance seems a little unfair. Considering that dual attack don't really get the buff from their partner, plus they are always negated by anyone in Pair Up. It is better to go in a dual attack stance when you are either facing tough but alone unit, or units in attack stances (even that is quite risky), other wise Dual Guard Stance gives much better bonus.

Attack stance does give +Hit, Avoid, Crit, etc. ofc you can still get those bonuses regardless of being in Guard Stance or not. it's just nerfed

Is it? That helps immensely. xD

oh, if you didn't know the formula then yea it's probably unpredictable XD

[NekoKnight]

For me, the dual attack stance seems like a more defensive option in order to set up for the enemy phrase. Unless, I placed my units correctly, it is very uncommon to use it on player phrase. Think of it like a roman formation, where the spears are lined up together to deal with oncoming cavalry units. The best defense is offense.

There are tons of ways to set up dual attacks on the player phase, especially when ranged and melee units fight side by side.

Situation A, use a ranged attack on an enemy, move a melee unit in between them and finish the enemy off with a dual attack.

Situation B, use a melee attacker against an enemy adjacent to another. You kill the first enemy, move another unit into their space and attack the second enemy, now with a dual strike.

[nflchamp]

I mainly use dual guard to go charging into enemy lines that I'd get dual attacked in. Usually in a kill the middle of three guys option to then cheaply get two dual attacks.

[Oshimos]

Maybe it's more viable to switch them up on Normal, but on Conquest Hard I find that if someone isn't paired up they tend to get bodied by enemy dual strikes, and since everyone and their dog has either a shuriken or a Seal, units tend to fall pretty quickly no matter how tanky they are.

[paladin21]

For me, the dual attack stance seems like a more defensive option in order to set up for the enemy phrase. Unless, I placed my units correctly, it is very uncommon to use it on player phrase. Think of it like a roman formation, where the spears are lined up together to deal with oncoming cavalry units. The best defense is offense.

Dual Guard stance being able to negate Dual Attack stance seems a little unfair. Considering that dual attack don't really get the buff from their partner, plus they are always negated by anyone in Pair Up. It is better to go in a dual attack stance when you are either facing tough but alone unit, or units in attack stances (even that is quite risky), other wise Dual Guard Stance gives much better bonus.

Now I'm playing Birthright lunatic, and I used dual strikes and area skills to get rid of a row of paired up characters there were three of them. Even if your support unit attack won't land on the target, he'll get weapon exp (good to build ranks), and your lead unit still gets some bonuses. After the enemy's units were reduced to one, I'd use the second unit to deliver the finishing blow on that one.

I enjoy the way it works enormously. I like having the option to go all out offensive or to get the paired stats. The Dual Guard meter is also great. It lets me know when an attack can be nullfied

of course I'm playing Normal and I'm playing Birthright so take with a grain of salt

It helps a lot in lunatic as well. Clustering your units can make you deal tons of damage to surrounding foes, and pairing up can allow you to break choke points with otherwise uneffective units and less need of healers.

[Klytus]

I find myself using dual attack much more often than dual guard, mainly because it keeps both characters free for the next round. That said, dual guard has saved my butt a couple times when I neglected to see a defensively weak character was in range of enemy attack. There are some levels in which dual guard seems a necessity in order to survive the early waves.

[OliKad]

About the whole system, it's kind of like the Pair Up system in FE13, but with the added satisfaction of still needing strategy to win. In short, I love it!