Takumi has to be the greatest archer in the series.

[Midori Mage]

If you do Kinshi Knight, you'll have a much lower chance of Takumi getting Str, cause it drops down to 40% (It's 50% as Archer and Sniper). Do you have an idea of who you're marrying him to? Just wondering cause his wife can always patch it up.

[Espinosa]

If you do Kinshi Knight, you'll have a much lower chance of Takumi getting Str, cause it drops down to 40% (It's 50% as Archer and Sniper). Do you have an idea of who you're marrying him to? Just wondering cause his wife can always patch it up.

i.e. he will get 1 less strength every 10 levels. Assuming you play slowly enough for him to cap his level, that's 2 points of strength lost at lv. 20 promoted. Not a big deal; I'd argue the drop in strength when promoting is more noticeable.

I think flight, 8 mov and +1 mov on pair-up are very tangible benefits that can be compared to Sniper's better strength, speed, defence and class bonuses.

[Anacybele]

No, I'm not sure yet. I was thinking Oboro because she already has a crush on him (she made it obvious the moment she first showed up. :P). And I'm the sort of person that doesn't like seeing unrequited love... (although I am willing to write such scenarios, as I did in my fic. And there can be exceptions anyway, like Cordelia in Awakening, who I decided deserved better than Chrom and didn't mind that she couldn't get him)

[PuffPuff]

Shinon? lol

Rolf owns Shinon a million times over.

Only in FE10.

But...he steals too much EXP that could be fed to units who already have better bases.

Rolf is the best archer in both PoR and RD. Give him the Knights Ring and he becomes God like.

Just my two bits ... Shinon comes out the box strong, but come end game, he really can't compare to Rolf.

It isn't favoritism either ... I think Shinon is a cool character but honestly, Rolf is OP.

Whaaa....

Bad bases and bad way to die from magicians as their counter attacks will really hurt him with his pitiful Res. Plus Deadeye sucks in FE9 and using an Occult Scroll on him would be a waste. I'll pass as Astrid is better off having that scroll as she is the game's best bow user. Shinon, no. Because he joins too late and taking too much effort to making him any good!

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/shinon/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/rolf/

Look at their averages, even end game. It's not going to make any noticeable difference. A few extra points of damage isn't worth it for the 12 levels you have to give Rolf to get him to the same level.

In terms of consistency, Shinon is absolutely the better archer/sniper.

As for FE9, well, I don't think Shinon is very good in that (he is not) so I'm always saying FE10 Shinon.

When we have goddess Astrid/Stella.

He's the greatest archer in the series because all of the other archers are absolutely horrid.

Why in Marth's games they had to be shit beyond belief?

You seem to be talking about Path of Radiance (everyone here already knows Astrid is like, the fourth worst character in Radiant Dawn), so here are Rolf's and Astrid's average stats at 20/1:

Rolf: HP - 32, Def - 13, Res - 8

Astrid: HP - 33, Def - 13, Res - 10

Then you remember that Astrid has access to the Knight Ward (she comes with it, even!) for +2 Def/Res, +2 move for better positioning flexibility on the enemy phase, as well as her choice of Swords/Axes/Lance to help leverage the weapon triangle in her favor. Not to mention she also has Paragon, so she'll be leveling up much faster than Rolf and therefore increase her durability lead over him even more.

As for Rolf vs. Shinon in Radiant Dawn, you have to realize that Rolf will not possibly outclass Shinon until the very end of the game once your units start reaching max level, because due to the massive level difference by the time Rolf 'catches up' to Shinon, Shinon could have used that EXP to get even farther ahead of Rolf. Yeah, he gets less EXP due to being a higher level, but Rolf is twelve levels in the hole here - he's too far behind to catch up, especially since Shinon has an easier time getting that EXP because he does more damage and doubles basically everything when he joins (Rolf on the other hand, doubles nothing at all). In addition, Shinon can use BEXP to reliably increase his Strength once he starts capping his other stats, so Rolf's only advantage over him just disappears.

This key sentence is why that Rolf is just a waste of time!

-----

*Ahem*

About Takumi...

Takumi and Ryoma were given too much to benefit beginner players which some people don't bother to use for wanting a better challenge.

[Shadow Mir]

They sound like sheep. Maybe most people haven't figured out how to invest in Rolf to make him pay off much much earlier than everyone here is suggesting. I've beaten both games at least 6 times.

The problem is, for all the investment he needs, Rolf doesn't give any notable returns on that investment, especially in PoR.

Bastian is definitely worse

I beg to differ, since if nothing else, he can at least siege.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Anacybele]

Guys, I say again, this topic is about Takumi, not Rolf...

[Espinosa]

The topic being "Takumi has to be the greatest archer in the series" really does invite users to discuss archers and bow users in the Fire Emblem series for the nth time.

No clue why out of every shitty archer in the series it's Rolf being brought up as the pinnacle of greatness and not, say, Rebecca or Neimi.

[Radiant Dragon]

They sound like sheep. Maybe most people haven't figured out how to invest in Rolf to make him pay off much much earlier than everyone here is suggesting. I've beaten both games at least 6 times.

The great thing about Path of Radiance (and Radiant Dawn to a lesser extent) is that literally any unit can become good thanks to the BEXP mechanic. I'm pretty sure I've used everyone in that game on at least one playthrough. However, Rolf is considered worse than other units because he requires more EXP to become good due to his low base stats, and he will still have to deal with the natural limitations of the Sniper class regardless. The EXP used on Rolf could have been used on, say, one of the potential Paladins, and you would end up with a superior unit just because Paladins are that good and Snipers are that bad in Path of Radiance.

As for Takumi, I love how the new Attack Stance mechanics let me use him to help get 2-3 kills per player phase with his high attack, 2-range and good critical chance (I made him a Sniper). Definitely my favorite Archer in the series, although I concede I haven't played the DS games more than once. He's certainly better than Jamke and/or Faval just because the mechanics in Fates are much kinder to Archers than Geneology's are.

No clue why out of every shitty archer in the series it's Rolf being brought up as the pinnacle of greatness and not, say, Rebecca or Neimi.

To be fair, Rolf is much better than either of those two will ever be.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Radiant Dragon

[Anacybele]

The topic being "Takumi has to be the greatest archer in the series" really does invite users to discuss archers and bow users in the Fire Emblem series for the nth time.

No clue why out of every shitty archer in the series it's Rolf being brought up as the pinnacle of greatness and not, say, Rebecca or Neimi.

Except the title mentions Takumi and only Takumi. If I had written it as "Who's the greatest archer in the series?" then you'd be more accurate here and this topic wouldn't even be in the Fates board. But either way, it wasn't meant to invite discussion on other archers, only discussion on Takumi.

[Volke29]

The great thing about Path of Radiance (and Radiant Dawn to a lesser extent) is that literally any unit can become good thanks to the BEXP mechanic. I'm pretty sure I've used everyone in that game on at least one playthrough. However, Rolf is considered worse than other units because he requires more EXP to become good due to his low base stats, and he will still have to deal with the natural limitations of the Sniper class regardless. The EXP used on Rolf could have been used on, say, one of the potential Paladins, and you would end up with a superior unit just because Paladins are that good and Snipers are that bad in Path of Radiance.

As for Takumi, I love how the new Attack Stance mechanics let me use him to help get 2-3 kills per player phase with his high attack, 2-range and good critical chance (I made him a Sniper). Definitely my favorite Archer in the series, although I concede I haven't played the DS games more than once. He's certainly better than Jamke and/or Faval just because the mechanics in Fates are much kinder to Archers than Geneology's are.

To be fair, Rolf is much better than either of those two will ever be.

Perhaps the most logical -- and best -- response I've read on this thread yet.

With BEXP -- and meeting challenges where the game drops you a boatload of it -- Rolf is easy to invest in. Maybe give him a strength tonic here and there, too.

If you're very savvy at the game, you can still invest in all the other units ... I usually bring up players like Reyson, Mist (she is great despite what anyone says), Soren and Mia come to mind. Other units can come up naturally through combat.

To each their own I guess ... But to say Rolf is one of the worst characters when he is easily one of the best archers in the entire series is ridiculous Anyone that has played PoR and RD more than once knows this.

Personality wise ... yea, Rolf is one of the worst lol ... I mean, he is a whinny little s*** !

[Tryhard]

They sound like sheep. Maybe most people haven't figured out how to invest in Rolf to make him pay off much much earlier than everyone here is suggesting. I've beaten both games at least 6 times.

I'm just telling you the statistics and reasoning for why he's not worth it compared to Shinon if you care about maximising unit selection. Rolf in FE10 is perfectly usable, and honestly still better than a majority of the archers in the series (who are bad because of their lack of enemy phase and being (generally, marksman do get increased) locked to 2 range without any sufficient advantage in stats to justify using them). But he's not better than Shinon, nor does he "own" him. If you get lucky with him that's irrelevant.

The majority of people I've seen seem to be of the opinion that in FE10, Shinon > Rolf. If that makes us all sheep, then oh well. Also, don't try to imply that I haven't played FE10 enough, thanks.

@above: Shinon can use BEXP just as effectively as Rolf if not more so to aid his Strength, if you're talking about FE10.

As for Rolf being considered one of the worst characters... I haven't played FE9 in a while but I can't remember him being a standout character.

Except the title mentions Takumi and only Takumi. If I had written it as "Who's the greatest archer in the series?" then you'd be more accurate here and this topic wouldn't even be in the Fates board. But either way, it wasn't meant to invite discussion on other archers, only discussion on Takumi.

Apologies for continuing but at the same time I do think you kinda set it up for comparison by implying Takumi is just better to other archers in the series. Edited February 23, 2016 by Tryhard

[Volke29]

I can see how someone who played the game once or twice would think Shinon is the better archer. I did ...

I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse at this point. I've said my peace.

Any who. ....

Who is this Takumi guy I keep hearing about? Is he any good? =D

[Shadow Mir]

Perhaps the most logical -- and best -- response I've read on this thread yet.

With BEXP -- and meeting challenges where the game drops you a boatload of it -- Rolf is easy to invest in. Maybe give him a strength tonic here and there, too.

If you're very savvy at the game, you can still invest in all the other units ... I usually bring up players like Reyson, Mist (she is great despite what anyone says), Soren and Mia come to mind. Other units can come up naturally through combat.

To each their own I guess ... But to say Rolf is one of the worst characters when he is easily one of the best archers in the entire series is ridiculous Anyone that has played PoR and RD more than once knows this.

Personality wise ... yea, Rolf is one of the worst lol ... I mean, he is a whinny little s*** !

The issue is, Rolf comes in underleveled among a lot of other characters who would like BEXP to get them started as well, and every one of those other characters could put that BEXP to better use than he can, since he'll forever be limited by the Sniper class limitations. That, along with FE9 being one of, if not, the absolute worst game for snipers, is why I consider your statement that FE9 Rolf is among the best archers in the series to be stupidiculous. Hell, Shinon's not very good either, but he has his moments as a reliable ranged attacker when you don't have any to speak of.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Roxachronc]

Like seriously, Rolf? lol, like you need more than 10 levels just so he can become as useful as Shinon, why waste EXP on a character that is only going to become slightly different as one you already have that needs no resources?

Also I want to see Takumi try to engage in 10 consecutive combats and not die, is definitely the best archer in Fates, but still needs more to be at the level of Shinon, tough is much better than Rolf and the like at least.

Not saying Rolf is bad, just not as OP as Shinon and Takumi.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Roxachronc

[Duke of Dozel]

Let's look at Takumi. He joins in chapter 11 if I remember right, with 29 attack, pretty much able to one shot everyone in his join chapter. He also has the Fujin Yumi, which allows him to traverse the area he joins on effortlessly, which is full of trees lowering your movement. This is what makes him better than Ryan or Gordin in 12. Both are archers, and they have movement issues, even with chapter one availability. Takumi says fuck that and snipes everyone in OHKO fashion.

However, we have heavy competition for "the best". Takumi has a low base speed. Shinon doesn't have speed issues, ever. Takumi only caps Skl on average. Shinon caps skill, speed, and defense, and has BEXP access to cap all the other stats. Takumi has free range access outside of bottomless areas. Shinon has the double bow which fixes his one issue which is 1-3 range access, and it gives him a STR boost. Even outside of that, Shinon has crossbow access, in case he really needs to deal with enemies up close. Takumi doesn't until whenever Proximity Shot becomes available in DLC. Shinon has Chapter 1 availability in Part 3 RD. Takumi comes a bit later, though it isn't as big of an issue. Takumi has flying mount access, but it's virtually pointless since he has free range anyway. Shinon is just 7 levels away from having 3 range. Hell, if Takumi didn't have a legendary bow, he wouldnt be as godly as people say he is. Shinon also has brave bow access as well. He doesn't even need to get hurt fighting enemies like Dheginsea because 3 range kicks in.

All in all, Shinon is just a god with a bow in RD. He's everything you could want in an archer in a game where archers got a lot of love. And with BEXP, Takumi has too little in comparison. He rivals Faval for one of the best archers ever.

[Dwlr]

My Takumi's stats are behind Setsuna for me, he only brings the bow for me and Setsuna with a Steel Bow is better on my game.

...Hinoka. Make them even more OP.

Hinoka's Guard Naginata lets her shrug off most anything in my game thus far.

[Nobody]

No, I'm not sure yet. I was thinking Oboro because she already has a crush on him (she made it obvious the moment she first showed up. :P). And I'm the sort of person that doesn't like seeing unrequited love... (although I am willing to write such scenarios, as I did in my fic. And there can be exceptions anyway, like Cordelia in Awakening, who I decided deserved better than Chrom and didn't mind that she couldn't get him)

If you still haven't decided, I recommend Sniper. Takumi's bow lets him move through special terrain as if it were normal just like a flier even as a snipes, so that's only less advantage for kinshi knight. His stats are also better as a knight. The only thing kinshi has over sniper are the higher move and the lances (which he probably won't even use).

[Thor Odinson]

The only time you should really do Kinshi Takumi over Sniper is if you make him marry Aqua (btw, very slow, horribly inefficient, not recommended and I took one for the team so ya'll should just get it off me) to get Swallow Strike fast. And then once you get that anti-air skill, go back to Sniper. Birthright has enough cash you can definitely afford this heart seal.

[CompteSecours]

He has a shitty speed tho.

[Thor Odinson]

Eh, his speed's not so low to be unfixable--guard stance and tonic works pretty well. Fuujin lets him oneshot Revenant Knights and avoid eating a counter from them, which is nice.

...though speaking of revenant knights Sakura currently onerounds them with Iron+1 forge and take no damage it's really funny u go Sakura

[PuffPuff]

Let's look at Takumi. He joins in chapter 11 if I remember right, with 29 attack, pretty much able to one shot everyone in his join chapter. He also has the Fujin Yumi, which allows him to traverse the area he joins on effortlessly, which is full of trees lowering your movement. This is what makes him better than Ryan or Gordin in 12. Both are archers, and they have movement issues, even with chapter one availability. Takumi says fuck that and snipes everyone in OHKO fashion.

However, we have heavy competition for "the best". Takumi has a low base speed. Shinon doesn't have speed issues, ever. Takumi only caps Skl on average. Shinon caps skill, speed, and defense, and has BEXP access to cap all the other stats. Takumi has free range access outside of bottomless areas. Shinon has the double bow which fixes his one issue which is 1-3 range access, and it gives him a STR boost. Even outside of that, Shinon has crossbow access, in case he really needs to deal with enemies up close. Takumi doesn't until whenever Proximity Shot becomes available in DLC. Shinon has Chapter 1 availability in Part 3 RD. Takumi comes a bit later, though it isn't as big of an issue. Takumi has flying mount access, but it's virtually pointless since he has free range anyway. Shinon is just 7 levels away from having 3 range. Hell, if Takumi didn't have a legendary bow, he wouldnt be as godly as people say he is. Shinon also has brave bow access as well. He doesn't even need to get hurt fighting enemies like Dheginsea because 3 range kicks in.

All in all, Shinon is just a god with a bow in RD. He's everything you could want in an archer in a game where archers got a lot of love. And with BEXP, Takumi has too little in comparison. He rivals Faval for one of the best archers ever.

New DLC hasn't been announced and made in awhile. They probably already buried the hatchet! Sad that we'll have to use a cheat device to bring these unused items out!

Edited February 23, 2016 by PuffPuff

[Sweet_Basil]

Is he better than Niles? I only have Conquest and Niles is incredible and he's fast too. Mozu is also really good if you reclass her.

[LoboKD001]

I haven't played PoR nor RD but i think takumi is just too powerful lol. Im still at chapter 7 in hoshido but 17 in revelation and he's just a crit machine and ohkos everything (or most things) i made him a sniper too so he can crit more. Dear lord... I heard he can be a swordmaster too. I dont't think astra is gonna be of use to him lol.

[luis_lara12345]

I like to use Setsuna, but I hate her voice

Takumi is special because his Bow and Sniper animations are SO GOOD!!

Edited February 24, 2016 by luis_lara12345

[eclipse]

The Fuujin is what makes Takumi, really.

Bingo. He flies without having that annoying weakness to bows. Which is why he went Sniper in my run. Who gives a flying flip about Speed when you one-shot things for a very long time?

The starting bow units seem pretty damn good so far, so Takumi having a broken Prf is icing on the cake.