Please tell me this isn't true... (Saizo/Beruka C Support)

[Gaggle of Geese]

God dammit, I should have done my research before buying this game day 1. I've already sunk ~$80 into it, and NOW I find out that they removed both the swimsuits AND an entire support conversation?

I should really write and complain, just on principle.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Reminds me of one Sacred Stones support. Where Lute just follows Knoll and doesn't add any character development.
And character development is what we want in games, sadly FE lately doesn't give a lot of that nor nail it on the head.

[Daniel Santos]

God dammit, I should have done my research before buying this game day 1. I've already sunk ~$80 into it, and NOW I find out that they removed both the swimsuits AND an entire support conversation?

I should really write and complain, just on principle.

If you plan on doing that, be polite, explain what you disliked and why you think the changes were unnecessary as clearly as possible and try to sound reasonable. It won't change anything in regards to Fates, but if we are lucky it can change how they approach the next title in the series.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Daniel Santos

[Augestein]

This seems like the new "Muarim is Ike's sister." Mistake. That doesn't seem like it was intentional. Like as in there were supposed to be serious looks initially and then they ended on smiling and the text got butchered when it came over.

If it IS intentional, I can say that I don't think it's supposed to be humor. I think what they may have been going for with that is a mutual understanding of each other based on the exchanges. Like "the ninjas speak with their eyes" sort of thing. Of course, looking at it, my only response is ...? What? But you know what? I have to admit, mistake or not, it'd make me curious about the other supports. The only thing to really get upset about is that the conversation itself is lost, but considering how uninteresting the previous conversation was... I'm not even sure.

Assassin 1: You. You're on the opposite team and we're working together. You're an assassin too.

Assassin 2: Yeah.

Assassin 1: You're assassin 2.

Assassin 2: Yeah, and you're assassin 1.

Assassin 1: So we know each of other.

Assassin 2: Seems like it.

Assassin 1: So uh... Have you ever killed anyone? If so how many?

Assassin 2: "Have you ever killed anyone?" Of course I have you dunce, how else would I be an assassin? I don't count. It just puts bread on the table.

Assassin 1: You're right. We do kill.

I mean, that's kind of what the first conversation is. Oh cool, you're an assassin, so how many have you killed? I mean... It's kind of stupid in general to be honest. I mean, I don't have the game, and I have no means of getting the game any time soon but from what it sounds like, you're introduced to the fact that both characters are assassins, so it's a pretty silly support overall. Granted it's not a main plot conversation, but it's still a bad one in general. This is definitely *worse* so to speak, but in terms of lost content, it's pretty tame for what was lost.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Augestein

[Gaggle of Geese]

If you plan on doing that, be polite, explain what you disliked and why you think the changes were unnecessary as clearly as possible and try to sound reasonable. It won't change anything in regards to Fates, but if we are lucky it can change how they approach the next title in the series.

I intend to be polite, but thanks for the reminder.

[rubenz]

Well seems they changed a lot of things here, I just got Xander's confession and I compared it with Jap version in youtube, it is totally dfferent.

[HK Motendra]

Looking through this entire thread, I've seen a lot of complaints on lost content (and some of them being mere conformity with what everyone else is saying)t, yet haven't actually shown what was lost? At least for the sake of allowing context for those of us who haven't seen it, and can then form an opinion for ourselves, if it's really THAT bad a change. Where can I find the JP supports?

My personal input being that assassins in general are laconic killers who care not about right or wrong, or even picking sides; their task, alone, is all that matters. The two of them already being seasoned assassins, with just a glance at each other, via observation of the other's eyes, composure and tunnel vision-like focus, can recognize that they both understand and live by the same notion. That being said, it could have been made much more apparent if there were more than only 4 lines, but I digress. Not every point has to be outright shown to be caught, if you can read between the lines.

[Daniel Santos]

Looking through this entire thread, I've seen a lot of complaints on lost content (and some of them being mere conformity with what everyone else is saying)t, yet haven't actually shown what was lost? At least for the sake of allowing context for those of us who haven't seen it, and can then form an opinion for ourselves, if it's really THAT bad a change. Where can I find the JP supports?

My personal input being that assassins in general are laconic killers who care not about right or wrong, or even picking sides; their task, alone, is all that matters. The two of them already being seasoned assassins, with just a glance at each other, via observation of the other's eyes, composure and tunnel vision-like focus, can recognize that they both understand and live by the same notion. That being said, it could have been made much more apparent if there were more than only 4 lines, but I digress. Not every point has to be outright shown to be caught, if you can read between the lines.

Well, while I don't know were you can find the entire list of japanese supports and don't know everything about the original content as I'm trying to stay clean of spoilers at least for the Birthright route, I can list a few things I think the localization handed poorly based on what I heard and confirmed through another sources:

- Some changes with names that ruined references to past games. Like Abel (the horse) and Michalis (the wyvern) to Avel and Ace for example;

- Some poor choices of voices of certain characters like Effie and a few other ones that, while aren't necessarily unfit for the characters, really are hard on the ears (Peri, Setsuna, Selkie, Felicia, etc.);

- Some dialogues changed to include flat attempts at humour and lines changed to sound more stupid, like they are aimed at children ("Stupid Nohrian jerks", "Super-double-dupity-dangerous", the Dragon speak, etc.);

- Removed content for unjustifiable reasons like the swimsuits and the petting minigame (I get it, some people are not confortable with it. To tell the truth I'm one of the people who cringed at the minigame and found the way the localization handled it to be better and more practical. But just because we are not confortable with it, doesn't mean we should be happy with the removal while people who would have liked the content are undertandably upset. The minigame was optional and we only lost a feature with no replacement).

And yes, I am aware that the localization did some improvements over the original text, I'm not saying that all the changes are bad but the amount of bad and unnecessary changes I have seen so far are just inexcusable.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Daniel Santos

[solrocknroll]

I can't tackle all of that, but Avel was always Avel and Michalis was misspelled in the first place. Those changes aren't very indicative about the localization as a whole, and Avel wasn't even a change.

I'll also say that Setsuna's voice is great and all of those voices are flat out subjective as to whether you like them or not.

[The DanMan]

Well, while I don't know were you can find the entire list of japanese supports and don't know everything about the original content as I'm trying to stay clean of spoilers at least for the Birthright route, I can list a few things I think the localization handed poorly based on what I heard and confirmed through another sources:

- Some changes with names that ruined references to past games. Like Abel (the horse) and Michalis (the wyvern) to Avel and Ace for example;

- Some poor choices of voices of certain characters like Effie and a few other ones that, while aren't necessarily unfit for the characters, really are hard on the ears (Peri, Setsuna, Selkie, Felicia, etc.);

- Some dialogues changed to include flat attempts at humour and lines changed to sound more stupid like they are aimed at children ("Stupid Nohrian jerks", "Super-double-dupity-dangerous", the Dragon speak, etc.);

- Removed content for unjustifiable reason like the swimsuits and the petting minigame (I get it, some people are not confortable with it. To tell the truth I'm one of the people who cringed at the minigame and found the way the localization handled it to be better and more practical. But just because we are not confortable with it, doesn't mean we should be happy with the removal while people who would have liked the content are undertandably upset. The minigame was optional and we only lost a feature with no replacement).

And yes, I am aware that the localization did some improvements over the original text, I'm not saying that all the changes are bad but the amount of bad and unnecessary changes I have seen so far are just inexcusable.

-Abel was always Avel (at least that's what early translations pegged it as). Later the fandom started calling it Abel.

-I find Felicia and Effie fine, and everything here is subjective

-Would you rather have dastards? The meaning is gotten across. The later line really sounds like one of Elise's.

-Easy justification: the swimsuits were stupid and added nothing. All the the effects they had are on other, more tastefully designed items. But what we have here is something subjective.

Really, to me the dialogue changes have set things up at net 0; there's good and bad ones, and overall I'd rate it about equal to the original product.

I'm seeing "death of a thousand cuts" mentality here, but I'm only seeing about a dozen.

[Daniel Santos]

-Abel was always Avel (at least that's what early translations pegged it as). Later the fandom started calling it Abel.

You do realize that "ve" doesn't exist in Japanese, right? "Abel" is pronounced as "Aberu", "Veld" as "Berudo", etc. While you can argue that "Be" in Japanese could go for either "be" or "ve", due the fact the Percy's and Cherche's wyverns are (or rather, was i Percy's case) named after Michalis and Minerva who were also wyvern riders, I'm pretty sure Sphie's horse was ideed intended to be named after the Cavalier Abel.

-Easy justification: the swimsuits were stupid and added nothing. All the the effects they had are on other, more tastefully designed items. But what we have here is something subjective.

You know what is stupid and added nothing? The localization version of Saizo and Beruka's C Support. Really, just because it added nothing mean it's justifiable to remove completely? Why not remove the battle animations while we are at it? Granted, I don't think it was necessary for the japanese version to include them in the first place, but they included and it really doesn't hurt the game in any form. Why then the localization felt the need to remove them? They are optional, you don't need to buy them if you don't want to, but why remove the option for those who did want?

EDIT: I double checked the japanese kanas used in the horse's name and you were right about being Avel. They used "ヴェ" instead of "ベ". I admit that I was wrong in that particular case.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Daniel Santos

[The DanMan]

You know what is stupid and added nothing? The localization version of Saizo and Beruka's C Support. Really, just because it added nothing mean it's justifiable to remove completely? Why not remove the battle animations while we are at it? Granted, I don't think it was necessary for the japanese version to include them in the first place, but they included and it really doesn't hurt the game in any form. Why then the localization felt the need to remove them? They are optional, you don't need to buy them if you don't want to, but why remove the option for those who did want?

I never said that the localization was perfect; I genuinely see your point and don't like the change to the Saizo/Beruka support. I'm really just non-plussed about a lot of other things, and thus that makes it more difficult to see where you're coming from.

It's really a case of trade-offs.

[Gomez_Addams]

This seems like the new "Muarim is Ike's sister." Mistake. That doesn't seem like it was intentional. Like as in there were supposed to be serious looks initially and then they ended on smiling and the text got butchered when it came over.

If it IS intentional, I can say that I don't think it's supposed to be humor. I think what they may have been going for with that is a mutual understanding of each other based on the exchanges. Like "the ninjas speak with their eyes" sort of thing. Of course, looking at it, my only response is ...? What? But you know what? I have to admit, mistake or not, it'd make me curious about the other supports. The only thing to really get upset about is that the conversation itself is lost, but considering how uninteresting the previous conversation was... I'm not even sure.

Assassin 1: You. You're on the opposite team and we're working together. You're an assassin too.

Assassin 2: Yeah.

Assassin 1: You're assassin 2.

Assassin 2: Yeah, and you're assassin 1.

Assassin 1: So we know each of other.

Assassin 2: Seems like it.

Assassin 1: So uh... Have you ever killed anyone? If so how many?

Assassin 2: "Have you ever killed anyone?" Of course I have you dunce, how else would I be an assassin? I don't count. It just puts bread on the table.

Assassin 1: You're right. We do kill.

I mean, that's kind of what the first conversation is. Oh cool, you're an assassin, so how many have you killed? I mean... It's kind of stupid in general to be honest. I mean, I don't have the game, and I have no means of getting the game any time soon but from what it sounds like, you're introduced to the fact that both characters are assassins, so it's a pretty silly support overall. Granted it's not a main plot conversation, but it's still a bad one in general. This is definitely *worse* so to speak, but in terms of lost content, it's pretty tame for what was lost.

Gonna have to agree here. I've read the Japanese support, and it really tells me nothing about these two characters that I couldn't learn by reading their roster bio.

[RedRob]

Gonna have to agree here. I've read the Japanese support, and it really tells me nothing about these two characters that I couldn't learn by reading their roster bio.

True, but how often does anyone actually reads those? Plus, even then, a support consisting of nothing but "..." is by no means a better alternative. And it's been mentioned before that the A and B support still references what happened in the original C support, so changing it like that is just sloppy.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

True, but how often does anyone actually reads those? Plus, even then, a support consisting of nothing but "..." is by no means a better alternative. And it's been mentioned before that the A and B support still references what happened in the original C support, so changing it like that is just sloppy.

Exactly.

The reality is that they changed an actual, meaningful conversation to "...". While one might debate how much value that conversation had, whatever value or interest it may have had is lost completely. Instead we get, effectively, "oh look, two quiet assassins". Saying the original conversation tells you nothing about the characters assumes the reader already has pretty good knowledge of the two characters in the first place, which should not be required for a C rank support.

[Seanp12]

True, but how often does anyone actually reads those? Plus, even then, a support consisting of nothing but "..." is by no means a better alternative. And it's been mentioned before that the A and B support still references what happened in the original C support, so changing it like that is just sloppy.

I would say people are more likely to read the roster bio. After all, you get those by default. Supports are optional.

[henrymidfields]

My personal input being that assassins in general are laconic killers who care not about right or wrong, or even picking sides; their task, alone, is all that matters. The two of them already being seasoned assassins, with just a glance at each other, via observation of the other's eyes, composure and tunnel vision-like focus, can recognize that they both understand and live by the same notion. That being said, it could have been made much more apparent if there were more than only 4 lines, but I digress. Not every point has to be outright shown to be caught, if you can read between the lines.

Initially I was taken aback, but having a look at their entire support, this is exactly what I've thought.