Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Magical Glace]

Judging by your preferences, I wouldn't recommend BW as much - at least not on its own. If you want to play BW2 or interested in the US-democracy-critique of a story, then I will recommend it. Personally, I've found the rubber-band EXP payout from wild Pokémon too much of an artificially-inflated difficulty, and a number of Unova Pokémon were unusually difficult to use compared to BW2 - or even other Pokémon games that I played in the past. (Darumaka and especially Blitzle, I'm looking at you...) I could barely last a single battle or two with BW's large pool of wild Pokémon and their movepools, and it sometimes took me over an hour to gain a single level in that game - especially if you're training for your Gym Battles.

It was particularly awful when I found out that I suddenly had a real-life time-limit to complete my Unova Pokedex due to the Wi-fi shutdown, (Now that was just not on, Nintendo!) but that's for another day.

...Gen V had some of the easiest grind-leveling in the series. Just scout for Audino. Easy to find being in any place with grass, give a ton of EXP, and generally spent more time doing nothing or healing you than attacking. Heck, one NPC tells you to do this if you need levels. Edited June 8, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Anacybele]

BW and B2W2 had some of the highest leveled wild Pokemon ever as well. :/ Likely because gen 5 has a lot of Pokemon that evolve at higher levels. I never did understand that, actually. Why Unova generally has a lot of Pokemon that take so long to evolve. I mean, look at how many don't evolve until lv. 40 or beyond:

Axew line: lv. 48

Rufflet: lv. 54

Vullaby: lv. 54

Mienfoo: lv. 50

Larvesta: lv. 59

Sandile line: lv. 40

Gothita line: lv. 41

Solosis line: lv. 41

Vanillite line: lv. 47

Frillish: lv. 40

Ferroseed: lv. 40

Klink line: lv. 49

Elgyem: lv. 42

Litwick: lv. 41 (and this is just to Lampent!)

Golett: lv. 43

Pawniard: lv. 52

Deino line: lv. freaking 64

Adding onto this, Tynamo doesn't reach its first evolution until lv. 39. This was all totally crazy to me and still is.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Anacybele

[Dotty]

Free Lucky Egg + Audino = no EXP troubles ever

[solrocknroll]

Judging by your preferences, I wouldn't recommend BW as much - at least not on its own. If you want to play BW2 or interested in the US-democracy-critique of a story, then I will recommend it. Personally, I've found the rubber-band EXP payout from wild Pokémon too much of an artificially-inflated difficulty, and a number of Unova Pokémon were unusually difficult to use compared to BW2 - or even other Pokémon games that I played in the past. (Darumaka and especially Blitzle, I'm looking at you...) I could barely last a single battle or two with BW's large pool of wild Pokémon and their movepools, and it sometimes took me over an hour to gain a single level in that game - especially if you're training for your Gym Battles.

It was particularly awful when I found out that I suddenly had a real-life time-limit to complete my Unova Pokedex due to the Wi-fi shutdown, (Now that was just not on, Nintendo!) but that's for another day.

What? This doesn't make much sense. Darumaka is one of the best Pokemon in the game so that's on you. Blitzle is pretty weird to use so you can have that one though. Likewise, I don't think it means very much with the leveling stuff. I level faster in B/W than I do in any other Pokemon game because of the great EXP formula.

I would absolutely recommend BW over B2W2. BW has such a great selection of unique Pokemon that it would be criminal to not try it out. There's Serperior, Stoutland, Leavanny, Scolipede, Swoobat, Gigalith, Krookodile, Scrafty, Darmanitan, Excadrill, Gothitelle, Crustle, Cofagrigus, and so much more. B2W2 actually has a worse Pokedex because the Unova Pokemon get shafted. Instea of cool stuff like Throh and Tympole early game, we get Riolu, Growlithe, Koffing, and Magnemite which aren't very fun to use. I also maintain that Unova has the best music, cities, and character design, but that's neither here nor there.

[Water Mage]

BW and B2W2 had some of the highest leveled wild Pokemon ever as well. :/ Likely because gen 5 has a lot of Pokemon that evolve at higher levels. I never did understand that, actually. Why Unova generally has a lot of Pokemon that take so long to evolve. I mean, look at how many don't evolve until lv. 40 or beyond:

Axew line: lv. 48

Rufflet: lv. 54

Vullaby: lv. 54

Mienfoo: lv. 50

Larvesta: lv. 59

Sandile line: lv. 40

Gothita line: lv. 41

Solosis line: lv. 41

Vanillite line: lv. 47

Frillish: lv. 40

Ferroseed: lv. 40

Klink line: lv. 49

Elgyem: lv. 42

Litwick: lv. 41 (and this is just to Lampent!)

Golett: lv. 43

Pawniard: lv. 52

Deino line: lv. freaking 64

Adding onto this, Tynamo doesn't reach its first evolution until lv. 39. This was all totally crazy to me and still is.

I think it was because a lot of people complained that Pokemon were evolving to early.

You could get powerful Pokemon very early.

For example, Houndoom at level 24, Manectric at level 26, Gardevoir at level 30, Staraptor at level 34 and so on.

To be honest, they were evolving to early, at least by levels.

[Magical Glace]

I would absolutely recommend BW over B2W2. BW has such a great selection of unique Pokemon that it would be criminal to not try it out. There's Serperior, Stoutland, Leavanny, Scolipede, Swoobat, Gigalith, Krookodile, Scrafty, Darmanitan, Excadrill, Gothitelle, Crustle, Cofagrigus, and so much more. B2W2 actually has a worse Pokedex because the Unova Pokemon get shafted. Instea of cool stuff like Throh and Tympole early game, we get Riolu, Growlithe, Koffing, and Magnemite which aren't very fun to use. I also maintain that Unova has the best music, cities, and character design, but that's neither here nor there.

Most of those can be found at the exact same points as in BW.

Venipede is actually earlier in BW2, being Route 20 Dark Grass (before Roxie) rather than inner Pinwheel Forest (after Lenora).

Drilbur, Roggenrola, and Woobat are delayed a bit. Rather than being just before Gym 2, they're now just before Gym 3.

The rest haven't budged, even appearing at similar levels.

Edit: didn't see Tympole, but that's literally one shafted line that has nothing till post game (Munna was available via dream radar).

Edited June 8, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Tamanoir]

Judging by your preferences, I wouldn't recommend BW as much - at least not on its own. If you want to play BW2 or interested in the US-democracy-critique of a story, then I will recommend it. Personally, I've found the rubber-band EXP payout from wild Pokémon too much of an artificially-inflated difficulty, and a number of Unova Pokémon were unusually difficult to use compared to BW2 - or even other Pokémon games that I played in the past. (Darumaka and especially Blitzle, I'm looking at you...) I could barely last a single battle or two with BW's large pool of wild Pokémon and their movepools, and it sometimes took me over an hour to gain a single level in that game - especially if you're training for your Gym Battles.

It was particularly awful when I found out that I suddenly had a real-life time-limit to complete my Unova Pokedex due to the Wi-fi shutdown, (Now that was just not on, Nintendo!) but that's for another day.

I really liked the Exp model on this game and was kinda disappointed to see it disappear.

A far better way to train underleveled Pokemon than the Exp Share, for sure.

Now, there are some issues with BW (Half the map being Post Game locked is ridiculous) but the exp isn't one of them (and there's a Gymnasium just for you if you wanna train. Just saying.

You know you... don't have to use it, right?

Honestly I really only used it in the post-game. If you don't use it and don't grind more than the standard, you'll trail by a few levels for most of the game.

So it's really only as easy as you make it (but then again, XY was my first game so I don't have years of experience under my belt.)

Yeah, but eating candy is easier if you don't have a Candy Box in your home.

If I had to replay through it, I wouldn't use it, for sure, but the first time, I thought why not.

And even without it, it's still ridiculous. The "Elite" Grunts that have only 1-2 Pokémon are just ridiculous, no matter the difficulty

[Anacybele]

I think it was because a lot of people complained that Pokemon were evolving to early.

You could get powerful Pokemon very early.

For example, Houndoom at level 24, Manectric at level 26, Gardevoir at level 30, Staraptor at level 34 and so on.

To be honest, they were evolving to early, at least by levels.

By that logic, the starters evolve too early too then. But they've never been changed here. The latest they evolve to their final form has always been lv. 36, just two levels higher than Staraptor. And Pokemon like the pseudo-legendaries evolved late.

And you still have some gen 5 Pokemon evolving early, like the Pidove line, Blitzle, etc. And there aren't nearly as many Pokemon that evolve so late in gen 6. There was no good reason to have so many gen 5 Pokemon evolve so annoyingly late.

[solrocknroll]

I can't explain all of those, but Elgyem's evolution level is probably a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

A lot of those really aren't that late considering the high stats many of them have. By that merit, Clawitzer, Goodra, and Dragalge are also too late.

[Leona]

I realize we've probably moved on by now but on the topic of hard to use Unova Pokemon, I found Purrloin to be pretty much useless. Reminds me of Poochyena, actually. I love both of their designs, but in recent playthroughs I feel like they're just not worth the effort. Deal little damage due to lack of STAB, and get taken out really easily.

[blah the Prussian]

I can't explain all of those, but Elgyem's evolution level is probably a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

A lot of those really aren't that late considering the high stats many of them have. By that merit, Clawitzer, Goodra, and Dragalge are also too late.

OH MY GOD

I NEVER GOT THAT

THATS BRILLIANT

[Tamanoir]

I always thought it was because of the new Gen V level up system that makes level up easier.

Leveling up is generally faster for most of the game so the high level doesn't matter as much as in older games.

Gen 1 Pokemon are far worse in that aspect.

Which leads to the second aspect : when you obtain them in game. It made sense for Ponyta to evolves at Level 40, since you obtained her at level 30+.

In Pokemon BW/B2W2, Mienfoo, Pawniard or Mandibuzz/Braviary are primal examples of this.

And once again, their boosts are often massive to compensate the late-ish level up (Excadrill, Cofagrigus and Darmanitian are the most notable examples.).

I realize we've probably moved on by now but on the topic of hard to use Unova Pokemon, I found Purrloin to be pretty much useless. Reminds me of Poochyena, actually. I love both of their designs, but in recent playthroughs I feel like they're just not worth the effort. Deal little damage due to lack of STAB, and get taken out really easily.

Well, that's because he IS Poochyenna. Like Pidove is Pidgey.

Their role is similar to Butterfree. They evolve really fast and is obtained early, so at the beginning they will be your best one, but later on they'll be replaced by better mons.

That makes as much sense as complaining about Patrat being hard to use.

Pokemon doens't exists in a vacuum, like Competitive Battle would like you to believe.

They're an integral part of the region they originate from. When they becomes avaialble is part of the game design as much as which Gym Leader you encounter first.

[Leona]

I can't even get Purrloin to work early game, so it being the best one in the beginning can hardly be right.

[Tamanoir]

I can't even get Purrloin to work early game, so it being the best one in the beginning can hardly be right.

I never used it myself, because I had no interrest in it. But I guess there should be a short time where it evolves into Liepard and is a great contender. The fact the game also gives you the elemental apes and their corresponding stones makes him even less usefull though.

I have more problem myself with Swoobat, as far as useless mons come.

[solrocknroll]

I never used it myself, because I had no interrest in it. But I guess there should be a short time where it evolves into Liepard and is a great contender. The fact the game also gives you the elemental apes and their corresponding stones makes him even less usefull though.

I have more problem myself with Swoobat, as far as useless mons come.

Swoobat is great though. I'm using a Swoobat on my most recent run, and it's actually really good. It has Psychic and Air Slash without much difficulty and can get some other moves for coverage. Mine knows Psychic, Air Slash, Calm Mind, and Assurance and I find it very useful.

[henrymidfields]

...Gen V had some of the easiest grind-leveling in the series. Just scout for Audino. Easy to find being in any place with grass, give a ton of EXP, and generally spent more time doing nothing or healing you than attacking. Heck, one NPC tells you to do this if you need levels.

Been there. Done that. Utterly unreliable when I needed it the most; still didn't help all that much in my attempt. I'm sorry, but I've heard this "recommendation" from so many peole, I'm just annoyed with it.

I really liked the Exp model on this game and was kinda disappointed to see it disappear.

A far better way to train underleveled Pokemon than the Exp Share, for sure.

Now, there are some issues with BW (Half the map being Post Game locked is ridiculous) but the exp isn't one of them (and there's a Gymnasium just for you if you wanna train. Just saying.

Gee, thanks for being so condescending about it. I did that too, and still had to go back to the Pokémon Centre every 1-2 battles to heal KOed Pokemon. Not much help either.

What? This doesn't make much sense. Darumaka is one of the best Pokemon in the game so that's on you. Blitzle is pretty weird to use so you can have that one though. Likewise, I don't think it means very much with the leveling stuff. I level faster in B/W than I do in any other Pokemon game because of the great EXP formula.

Well Darumaka would have been good, if it weren't for that unreliable Hustle ability. I'd rather take BW2's Growlithe, Ampharos, and Lucario without any hesitation. They were more reliable to work with, which is my biggest preference.

If all these features allegedly made things easier as you claim, then I wouldn't be complaining in a bitter manner about this. It was really stressful trying to go from beating Elesa to beat the game and catch all of the Unova Dex Pokemon in three months when the Wi-Fi shutdown was announced. Also did not help that it happened to be one of the most difficult gym leaders in ages. This really soured the experience I had, and because of this, I have a huge distrust with BW1's gameplay system. So I am afraid I will have to agree to disagree with you, and I thank you for not giving me further unsolicited advice over this.

Edited June 9, 2016 by henrymidfields

[solrocknroll]

Ampharos and Golduck were the best parts of B2W2's old Pokemon in the early game. Stuff like Arcanine and Lucario are sickeningly overdone. There's more Pokemon in general, but the Unova Pokemon aren't the focus anymore. I mean, you can get these Pokemon at the same times, but it's still not the same.

Why use Weezing, Arcanine, Electivire, and Lucario when the better Garbodor, Darmanitan, Galvantula, and Conkeldurr exist. And while I like Golduck, why not use Swanna instead? Unova's Pokemon are always, without fail, the best Pokemon in the series. It was a great thing after the utter mediocrity of Sinnoh.

[The DanMan]

On a more random note, Japan voted for their favorite pokemon (and it's not Pikachu):

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/06/japan_has_voted_for_its_favourite_pokemon_and_its_not_pikachu

My thoughts before reading it: "X confirmed for next Smash release".

It got 6.5% of the vote, and will apparently get a special Nu3DS model themed after it.

Praise our Greninja overlords.

Edited June 9, 2016 by The DanMan

[Magical Glace]

Ampharos and Golduck were the best parts of B2W2's old Pokemon in the early game. Stuff like Arcanine and Lucario are sickeningly overdone. There's more Pokemon in general, but the Unova Pokemon aren't the focus anymore. I mean, you can get these Pokemon at the same times, but it's still not the same.

Why use Weezing, Arcanine, Electivire, and Lucario when the better Garbodor, Darmanitan, Galvantula, and Conkeldurr exist. And while I like Golduck, why not use Swanna instead? Unova's Pokemon are always, without fail, the best Pokemon in the series. It was a great thing after the utter mediocrity of Sinnoh.

I mean you do realize this is an opinion right

It's nice to have options and stuff, like I was really glad the Eevee family was added to the dex even if the Ice and Moss Rocks were postgame locked. Same for Riolu.

Also you're honestly the first person I've seen who likes the Trubbish line.

[Water Mage]

On a more random note, Japan voted for their favorite pokemon (and it's not Pikachu):

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/06/japan_has_voted_for_its_favourite_pokemon_and_its_not_pikachu

My thoughts before reading it: "X confirmed for next Smash release".

It got 6.5% of the vote, and will apparently get a special Nu3DS model themed after it.

Praise our Greninja overlords.

You are aware that the reason why Arceus and other legendaries ranked so high is because people know that the winner will be distributred?

Anyways here are the top 100:

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/132/248/77b.jpg_large

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/132/249/91c.jpg_large

There are some suprises in that list,

and for those who are curious, the pokemon that ended up in last place and was considered Japan's least popular Pokemon was Simsear.

[The DanMan]

You are aware that the reason why Arceus and other legendaries ranked so high is because people know that the winner will be distributred?

Anyways here are the top 100:

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/132/248/77b.jpg_large

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/132/249/91c.jpg_large

There are some suprises in that list,

and for those who are curious, the pokemon that ended up in last place and was considered Japan's least popular Pokemon was Simsear.

Ah.

Still, it's not like the winner was rare and it still beat out Pikachu.

[Magical Glace]

Glaceon at 47^th, eh? I completely approve. Considering there's around 720, 47 is a pretty dandy spot!

Edited June 9, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Water Mage]

Ah.

Still, it's not like the winner was rare and it still beat out Pikachu.

I know, and it makes me very happy that legendary didn't win this time. If you research other official polls, you'll see that Arceus won almost every single one.

But the winner was a Water type, and it makes me so glad! And a easy one to get at that! It's definitively won becuase of popularity, and not because people wanted one.

Armaldo, Archen, Archeops, and Magnemite being so popular surprised me however.

And yeah, looks like Glaceon is the second most popular Eeveevolution.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Water Mage

[solrocknroll]

Armaldo, Archen, Archeops, Arbok, and Beautifly (Japanese: Agehunt) all have something here for a reason. They all start with A. The voting list was also in alphabetical order.

The only reason they're here is because people probably picked the first Pokemon they saw that they liked. I mean, it's fine that they're up there. But they're probably there for that reason.

@GlaceonMage I don't think it's very ridiculous for me to like the Trubbish line. Trubbish is adorable, and Garbodor isn't that bad either. I actually really feel bad for it because people don't like it. I always care for stuff like Klink, Trubbish, and now Simisear I guess because of the fact that people don't like them. It makes me sad to see them get bullied.

[Magical Glace]

The voting list was in Japanese though. I don't think there's such a thing as alphabetizing katakana... It's more likely based on National Dex number

And don't misunderstand me regarding the Trubbish thing, it was just something I noticed. I really don't care for the line either way. It's just most people don't like its design for being based on something people usually don't like to look at.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Glaceon Mage