So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[eclipse]

I feel like Fates would've been a far more interesting story if anyone besides Kamui had been the protagonist.

Imagine if the actual protagonists were the following:

Birthright - Takumi, complete with skepticism

Conquest - Azura, with that one mission being "have Azura escape offstage"

Revelations - Gunter (have it shift to him after the choice is made)

If the game could make it so that "lord = the one who's moving the units", it would've worked a lot better. Corrin could be the clueless, sympathetic one and be a minor irritant instead of a walking disaster.

[Thane]

Imagine if the actual protagonists were the following:

Birthright - Takumi, complete with skepticism

Conquest - Azura, with that one mission being "have Azura escape offstage"

Revelations - Gunter (have it shift to him after the choice is made)

If the game could make it so that "lord = the one who's moving the units", it would've worked a lot better. Corrin could be the clueless, sympathetic one and be a minor irritant instead of a walking disaster.

*Dreamy sigh* I wanted Azura to be a villain in at least one route, too, and that Garon was more like Wind Waker Ganondorf. The things that could've been.

[Jave]

I would have taken Birthright with

possessed Takumi as the main Lord. He kills Azura before she has a chance to heal him.

[Seanp12]

When the game was first announced, that's what I thought it was going to be. The Avatar in the Robin role and either Xander or Ryoma in the Chrom role, depending on which you chose.

[Lann La Mirah]

I feel like Fates would've been a far more interesting story if anyone besides Kamui had been the protagonist.

We could have Ryouma or Marx as the leads of Birthright and Conquest, respectively. Actually, any of the sibling pairs would have worked. I think Takumi and Leon might've been a good as main lords in their respective routes, as they're kind of in the same age range as the "typical" FE lord and they'd have an excuse to start off lower-leveled and to raise up.

Totally agree with this.

[Mark the Tactician]

I feel like Fates would've been a far more interesting story if anyone besides Kamui had been the protagonist.

We could have Ryouma or Marx as the leads of Birthright and Conquest, respectively. Actually, any of the sibling pairs would have worked. I think Takumi and Leon might've been a good as main lords in their respective routes, as they're kind of in the same age range as the "typical" FE lord and they'd have an excuse to start off lower-leveled and to raise up.

I find myself in agreement here.

While I am fond of the avatar being in FE, I'm finding Corrin's role as THE protagonist to be..... iffy.

I really think their role is better suited as a supporting protagonist at best.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mark the Tactician

[NekoKnight]

I find myself in agreement here.

While I am fond of the avatar being in FE, I'm finding Corrin's role as THE protagonist to be..... iffy.

I really think their role is better suited as a supporting protagonist at best.

The avatar would be good as either a supporting protagonist or viewpoint character. In Fates, his background is certainly interesting but there are several other characters that work better as the lead protagonist.

[Mark the Tactician]

The avatar would be good as either a supporting protagonist or viewpoint character. In Fates, his background is certainly interesting but there are several other characters that work better as the lead protagonist.

Agreed.

That's honestly why I think Robin, and even Kris, make better player representatives.

Mark, of course, being the best out of all of them.

[Emblem Blade]

Agreed.

That's honestly why I think Robin, and even Kris, make better player representatives.

Mark, of course, being the best out of all of them.

Selena (Severa), Odin (Owain) and Laslow (Inigo) are from an alternative future timeline in Awakening (most likely another version from Future Past) where Robin has fallen to Grima's influence. Robin wouldn't exist normally. There's no callback entirely for Kris to exist since unless Anna has a gate that connects to that era.

Corrin isn't a bad protagonist really, most of their mistakes can also be blamed on their followers for not giving them any good advice when it was needed (which is all the time right now).

[RedRob]

*Dreamy sigh* I wanted Azura to be a villain in at least one route, too, and that Garon was more like Wind Waker Ganondorf. The things that could've been.

What's not to say she wasn't? What's not to say that her plan was to seduce Corrin, and use him to cripple both nations so she could take over later. The plot was nothing more than her using her feminine willies to get Corrin to do stupid things, all to sate her mad greed for power. Dammit Corrin, didn't you know your dick is used for procreation, not for thinking? That's what your brain is for, you horribly-named fool! To think with!

*Movie rating advisory voice* The above has been spoilered for mentions of sexual content, a man ranting at a fictional character like a lunatic, and headcannon. Please be advised.

[Pixelman]

sexual content

headcannon

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Abysswalker25]

I find myself in agreement here.

While I am fond of the avatar being in FE, I'm finding Corrin's role as THE protagonist to be..... iffy.

I really think their role is better suited as a supporting protagonist at best.

Even if they were, people would complain about them either

A. Being too bland (Kris)

B. Stealing the spotlight from the lord (Robin)

I think the Avatar being the lord character is a step in the right direction. However, writing could be improved upon. And I'd prefer the Avatar character be kept since I like being able to have my own personal unit.

[Inference]

While I love the aesthetics, strategy, and music of Conquest, I am puzzled as to why there are apologists for the story. I've just reached endgame and I was strongly tempted to skip all of the dialogue before I've even read it. I suspected the story would be pretty bad due to the precedent Awakening set, but this is egregious beyond expectation.

[BruceLee]

While I love the aesthetics, strategy, and music of Conquest, I am puzzled as to why there are apologists for the story. I've just reached endgame and I was strongly tempted to skip all of the dialogue before I've even read it. I suspected the story would be pretty bad due to the precedent Awakening set, but this is egregious beyond expectation.

It's this thing called rabid fans. They throw away all their standards to defend something they like, instead of admitting that some aspects of it are simply bad.

I've even seen someone on this forum say the ending of Conquest is an overall positive resolution to the war.

[secondworld]

I recently finished Birthright and wow, Conquest's story feels like an afterthought. I'm practically convinced Birthright was written first and Conquest's story was hastily thrown together to explain a couple unanswered questions from Birthright and give more foreshadowing for Revelation. Conquest's story has so many problems from pacing to characterization to shit generally just not making any sense, and Birthright is so much better in all of those aspects, pacing and characterization especially. Even most of the Nohr siblings, Elise, Camilla, and Xander, were better in Birthright imo. Leo being the only one who manages to be a good character in both routes. To be honest my biggest problems with Birthright's story are just that a couple death scenes feel forced and that the final boss is an asspull with no buildup.

Speaking of characterization though, Corrin not being a stupid, cowardly hypocrite is what stuck out the most to me. By the end of the game I actually felt like he had grown a bit, and that's more than I can say for many FE protags.

[Tolvir]

I think one of the largest problems with Corrin is they wanted him to be Naive and young, which is completely understandable and can make for good story telling, but didnt ever try and grow him out of it. When you look at Ike, at first he was young and naive. He made stupid decisions because he didn't have those learning experiences yet, but by the time Path of Radiance comes to an end, he has changed. He learned from his mistakes and no longer has the problem of being a naive leader, and now has grown into the potential of being an even better leader than his father was. Corrin on the other hand never learns from his mistakes. You never see a point of him changing and growing as a person across the mistakes he has made and the tragedies he is forced to go through.

The massacre in Cheve should of been a big turning point with Corrin. He should of learned from his mistakes and realized that while he cant outright defy Garon, he also cant just let them go and do as they please. He should of learned after this point to start being crafty and creative in his ways to stop Garon, which would of made Scarlet's death actually mean something, rather than be empty and meaningless.

It just shows that IS really needs to hire new writers for 15 because what they have currently is just not working. They cant write character development, and when they try characters don't change enough. They cant write an interesting villian that doesnt result in big evil dragon destroying the world. How about something new for Fire Emblem for a change like some Gothic Horror themes with Vampires, or undead armies and Liches, or maybe some basic human villians. Hell, what they had originally going for Fates would of been interesting if Garon just had some real motivations rather than being a slime monster.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tolvir

[Thane]

I recently finished Birthright and wow, Conquest's story feels like an afterthought.

Have you played Revelation yet? If not, you're in for a surprise.

It just shows that IS really needs to hire new writers for 15 because what they have currently is just not working. They cant write character development, and when they try characters don't change enough. They cant write an interesting villian that doesnt result in big evil dragon destroying the world. How about something new for Fire Emblem for a change like some Gothic Horror themes with Vampires, or undead armies and Liches, or maybe some basic human villians. Hell, what they had originally going for Fates would of been interesting if Garon just had some real motivations rather than being a slime monster.

I think Fire Emblem would be much, much better with a human element as opposed to vaguely evil forces trying to destroy the world for no real reason other than madness, desperation or for the lulz. Unlike many series in a fantasy setting, monsters and magic powers are not the focus of Fire Emblem; they're there, sure, but it's not something that takes a huge place in the story. However, that sort of creates a disconnect when you go from mostly killing humans/shapeshifters to the obligatory evil dragon.

It has been said over and over, but so many things would instantly be fixed if Garon was more of a tragic (and human) villain and Ananakos simply didn't exist.

Intelligent Systems tried having their cake and eating it too, which is why the third route is there in the first place: to make sure people don't get upset over having to choose a side, which defeats the entire purpose of the setting.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Thane

[secondworld]

How about something new for Fire Emblem for a change like some Gothic Horror themes with Vampires, or undead armies and Liches, or maybe some basic human villians. Hell, what they had originally going for Fates would of been interesting if Garon just had some real motivations rather than being a slime monster.

Well the undead thing happened a couple times and basic human villains only were done once but yeah something different would be nice.

Speaking of Garon though, I still have no idea how the whole possession thing works. With Garon it's made to sound like he has been replaced by something else entirely, but with Takumi it takes a while before he's completely gone. What I got from it is that it takes a while to reach the full effect and once it does the host is replaced by some monster thing... but Garon was far more stable mentally than possessed Takumi at Endgame, so I really just don't understand how this works. Maybe Revelation will explain.

Have you played Revelation yet? If not, you're in for a surprise.

Just started, I just hope that surprise doesn't piss me off.

[Thane]

Just started, I just hope that surprise doesn't piss me off.

Oh boy. Oooh boy...keep us updated.

[secondworld]

The most I've gotten of Rev so far are a worse ch.6(story and gameplay), the curse that still has no explanation(still early on so I'm not annoyed at that just yet), and an early game that seems even more imbalanced than Birthright. The mechanics are still solid as ever so I am having enough fun to keep playing.

[Hunter Nightblood]

and an early game that seems even more imbalanced than Birthright.

Sadly, this is going to be a common theme throughout Revelations.

[Thane]

Sadly, this is going to be a common theme throughout Revelations.

"How's that level 9 Nyx working out? What do you mean too low leveled? Fine, give them a level 10 promoted Shura!"

[Tolvir]

Have you played Revelation yet? If not, you're in for a surprise.

I think Fire Emblem would be much, much better with a human element as opposed to vaguely evil forces trying to destroy the world for no real reason other than madness, desperation or for the lulz. Unlike many series in a fantasy setting, monsters and magic powers are not the focus of Fire Emblem; they're there, sure, but it's not something that takes a huge place in the story. However, that sort of creates a disconnect when you go from mostly killing humans/shapeshifters to the obligatory evil dragon.

It has been said over and over, but so many things would instantly be fixed if Garon was more of a tragic (and human) villain and Ananakos simply didn't exist.

Intelligent Systems tried having their cake and eating it too, which is why the third route is there in the first place: to make sure people don't get upset over having to choose a side, which defeats the entire purpose of the setting.

I think there is room for some villians other than humans that can have some interesting motivations. I just personally see a lot of untapped potential for Fire Emblem if they were to venture into other territories rather than just deities and dragons, that and I have a bit of bias towards Vamps because I love the gothic horror type genre, and would love to see Fire Emblem venture into that once or twice. I do agree human elements would be the best route though overall, which is evident with Path of Radiance having one of the best stories in the series, and only having a human as its main villian. Even Radiant Dawn was good, and most of its story was based around humans as well.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tolvir

[Hunter Nightblood]

"How's that level 9 Nyx working out? What do you mean too low leveled? Fine, give them a level 10 promoted Shura!"

Ironically Nyx is a higher level than Shura now in my file.

Revelation's unit balance comes down to one question, "What's your opinion on grinding?" If your answer is "I hate it", then Revelations is going to suck. Luckily for me, I am one of the insane ones who likes grinding and actively finds ways to make it as efficient as possible (I have a systematic way of using the DLC to give every unit near max Limit Broken stats with all skills learned in Awakening).

[RedRob]

I think there is room for some villians other than humans that can have some interesting motivations. I just personally see a lot of untapped potential for Fire Emblem if they were to venture into other territories rather than just deities and dragons, that and I have a bit of bias towards Vamps because I love the gothic horror type genre, and would love to see Fire Emblem venture into that once or twice. I do agree human elements would be the best route though overall, which is evident with Path of Radiance having one of the best stories in the series, and only having a human as its main villian. Even Radiant Dawn was good, and most of its story was based around humans as well.

Gothic horror kind of seems incompatible with the atmosphere of the series so far, plus the writers would probably just make it some crappy Twilight clone. The closest I think it got to that were the early trailers and ads for Fates.

But if I were to put aside my lack of fate(no pun intended) in the writers, perhaps some kind of trilogy where the setting is basically the real world, only with magic, with the focus of the series being how the inclusion of magic would affect the development of history. I don't know exactly what sections I would have them focus on, but I'm thinking maybe at least the Victorian era, if only to have a steampunk fire emblem game. And the MC would be a Manakete so we could experience the passage of history through his eyes.

Or maybe a reverse of the FE formula, where the MCs are the evil dragons, only they're not evil as so much human in the sense they have sympathetic motives.

Like maybe they trying to find a cure for their madness, and as a result, they end up conquering other nations in the hopes that of the resources they gain in doing so, they will find one that will help them find a cure.