Fire Emblem Fates: The Good and the Bad (spoilers)

[NekoKnight]

While I in general love Conquest's map design, replaying it I've noticed that some maps are a bit cheaper than others; some rely purely on surprise reinforcements when you've reached a part of the map where it's hard to regroup. Even if some hardcore people argue that anyone playing Conquest should be ready for that, those who DO restart will see the only twist coming. Chapter 14 is the prime example of this.

Then there's the two RNG maps in a row, 19 and 20, but it's like the medicine you had to take as a kid before you got your piece of candy with map 21.

Why is C19&20 RNG maps? The foxes switch off their invulnerability every other turn right? And the wind in 20 can be canceled by activating the DV points.

[Emblem Blade]

are you having fun responding to literally every post in this thread

Good: it's fun

Bad: the story is stupid

As to your question, and I'm happy that you actually DID ask me as no one else bothered. Am I happy to respond to everyone as much as I can or whenever I feel like it? It's both yes and no. Yes as, I'm not being quiet since I'm partaking in conversations and not becoming a member for no reason. No, due to I tend to side-stray and cause arguments that could be avoided. Your Good and Bad response (as well as others who shared the same sentiments) basically covers this thread in a nutshell, nothing else needs to be added really by anyone else.

[Thane]

Why is C19&20 RNG maps? The foxes switch off their invulnerability every other turn right? And the wind in 20 can be canceled by activating the DV points.

I'm fairly certain it isn't every other turn; those foxes have been invulnerable for two rounds when I've played through. Either that or I'm misremembering and just suck at the game.

The wind is another matter entirely though; you can't plan ahead of it. One time Effie was boxed in and too slow to move out of the way so she ended up att Fuuga's place - she survived because she's a beast, but again, there are many maps where it's just a bit too cramp, and add the wind to that and you've got a very annoying map.

[1% critted]

I'm fairly certain it isn't every other turn; those foxes have been invulnerable for two rounds when I've played through. Either that or I'm misremembering and just suck at the game.

The wind is another matter entirely though; you can't plan ahead of it. One time Effie was boxed in and too slow to move out of the way so she ended up att Fuuga's place - she survived because she's a beast, but again, there are many maps where it's just a bit too cramp, and add the wind to that and you've got a very annoying map.

The foxes switch it on/off at the end of your player phase. The aggresive foxes (the ones that move towards you from the start) don't have illusions (because that would be too cheap even for this map).

The wind has a set pattern every time, but I don't think a site has the list of the pattern per turn. But it's the same every time. What really sucks is being pushed towards Fuuga, because that triggers some reinforcements.

[NekoKnight]

I'm fairly certain it isn't every other turn; those foxes have been invulnerable for two rounds when I've played through. Either that or I'm misremembering and just suck at the game.

The wind is another matter entirely though; you can't plan ahead of it. One time Effie was boxed in and too slow to move out of the way so she ended up att Fuuga's place - she survived because she's a beast, but again, there are many maps where it's just a bit too cramp, and add the wind to that and you've got a very annoying map.

The bolded should always be considered. ;)

Maybe probably my opinion of those maps will change on higher difficulties but I didn't have much difficulty on Classic Normal. The foxes weren't too difficult if you had a tight defensive formation, and they were still vulnerable to Deadly Breath even if they couldn't be targeted directly. I'm almost positive the invulnerability switches off every other turn so it's predictable if annoying. I liked the wind map personally, and like I said, if you don't want your guys getting blown around, you can activate the DV points. By the time you run out of DV points to use, you should have cleared most enemies/made the wind less dangerous.

[Thane]

The foxes switch it on/off at the end of your player phase. The aggresive foxes (the ones that move towards you from the start) don't have illusions (because that would be too cheap even for this map).

The wind has a set pattern every time, but I don't think a site has the list of the pattern per turn. But it's the same every time. What really sucks is being pushed towards Fuuga, because that triggers some reinforcements.

Fair enough, apparently I got so caught up in my dislike for the map that I missed that obvious detail. Thanks for informing me - although I still find it to be a very boring map.

It's the same every time, but it's very difficult to remember it all considering - at least if you want to scour the map for experience and loot - it takes quite a while and is difficult to navigate. Besides, it's impossible to know where the wind will blow beforehand.

The bolded should always be considered. ;)

Maybe probably my opinion of those maps will change on higher difficulties but I didn't have much difficulty on Classic Normal. The foxes weren't too difficult if you had a tight defensive formation, and they were still vulnerable to Deadly Breath even if they couldn't be targeted directly. I'm almost positive the invulnerability switches off every other turn so it's predictable if annoying. I liked the wind map personally, and like I said, if you don't want your guys getting blown around, you can activate the DV points. By the time you run out of DV points to use, you should have cleared most enemies/made the wind less dangerous.

Heeeey, I'm actually doing quite well I'll have you know! I just cheesed the crap out of chapter 23...poor Takumi, beaten so easily.

Honestly, the main problem with that map is that you can hardly create a defensive formation due to pass and poor terrain. Azura, Felicia and Elise are easy prey unless kept very far away. I mean, I should know, I win all my games by turtling heavily.

[General Banzai]

Bad: Goofster plot

Good: New pair-up system, challenge, new classes

[warchiefwilliams]

Time to once more throw my oppinion onto the internet and watch it get torn to shreds!

The Good

• 1st Gen Characters: Especially the Nohrians and certain Hoshidoans (Oboro and Takmui, mostly). They actually all feel like individuals rather than walking tropes. It makes them far more likable and easy to relate to.
• Pair-up. We can argue the advantages/disadvantages of the new system till we are blue in the face, but I personally really like it. In Awakening, pair-up was, for me, the be-all-end-all and it kinda cheapened the game. Here, pair-up is a far more strategic mechanic that takes a bit to learn how to use effectively, and I like it.
• Hidden Weapons. Aggravating to fight against? Yes. Hellishly fun to use? Very much so.
• Weapon changes: Now there is actually a reason to keep all those lower-tier weapons around! Sure weapon degradation is out, but a whole new wave of tactics surrounding weapons has opened up with how weapons affect stats and the like.
• Music. When is the OST going to be released? Does anyone know?
• Map Design: At least in Conquest, the maps present an interesting and fun strategic challenge.
• Premise: Lets face it, most of us got this game on it's premise alone.
• Chapter 6: No matter who you choose, you will feel like an ass for not picking the others.

The Bad

• The story itself. This has been talked about to death and this is neither the time nor the place for another debate. Did I like it? Not especially, I thought it was a waste of its potential.
• Player Worship: Again, another thing that has been talked about to death. Perhaps it is a part of making the player avatar the protagonist, but holy crap, it is bad in this game, possibly the worst I have seen.
• Certain Unit Designs: "Hey Camilla? Your... chest is a little exposed to arrow fire, don't you think?" "Uh Effie? Why aren't you wearing pants?" "Hey Sophie, forgive me for asking, but wouldn't wearing trousers prevent your thighs from chaffing as badly as they are?"
• Segregation between outside characterization and plot: Xander, morally right and chivalrous prince but also very kind as based on his supports. In the plot; an ineffective individual who is unable to recognize changes around him.
• Hoshidoan Awakening reincarnations: I'm willing to cut the Nohrian Trio some slack (at least until I play invisible history), but the Hoshidoan ones? Gods no. Between bringing the creepy stalker back and gutting what made Cordelia an interesting and engaging character, they are not good additions to that roster.
• Implications of Children: "I'm going to have a nice long discussion with you Odin regarding Elise's (WHO IS 15)... Condition. Yes, my sword will be joining us. No it will not be a painless talk."

The Ugly

• Children as a whole: The whole eugenics system in this game just screams "included because it was popular" and wasn't given much thought. The child characters as a whole are weaker from a characterization standpoint than the Awakening kids (I can guarantee you that none of them will make it into the next Fire Emblem) and the whole hyperbolic time chamber that created them is just bollocks. Time travel is a can of worms for any plot, but hyperbolic time chambers are far worse.
• The Dragon Vein. As stated above, it can create some interesting tactical opportunities. But in many cases, its use is forced to prevent bad things from happening to your force. A mixed bag.
• 3 Routes 3 Games: While this does mean triple the Fire Emblem, and that is always a good thing. I can't help but wonder if the game's plot as a whole would be more solid if there was only one or two routes...

It is a bit too early for me to make any call on DLC, but as of right now it would be in the Ugly category. Does it help? Yes. Boo Camp and the Gold DLC can help to plug a few holes in a Conquest playthrough, but the scaling of difficulty to match your characters levels means that what many expected to be an easy way to grind is now far more challenging. I don't mind, but a lot do.

[Emblem Blade]

Time to once more throw my oppinion onto the internet and watch it get torn to shreds!

The Good

• 1st Gen Characters: Especially the Nohrians and certain Hoshidoans (Oboro and Takmui, mostly). They actually all feel like individuals rather than walking tropes. It makes them far more likable and easy to relate to.
• Pair-up. We can argue the advantages/disadvantages of the new system till we are blue in the face, but I personally really like it. In Awakening, pair-up was, for me, the be-all-end-all and it kinda cheapened the game. Here, pair-up is a far more strategic mechanic that takes a bit to learn how to use effectively, and I like it.
• Hidden Weapons. Aggravating to fight against? Yes. Hellishly fun to use? Very much so.
• Weapon changes: Now there is actually a reason to keep all those lower-tier weapons around! Sure weapon degradation is out, but a whole new wave of tactics surrounding weapons has opened up with how weapons affect stats and the like.
• Music. When is the OST going to be released? Does anyone know?
• Map Design: At least in Conquest, the maps present an interesting and fun strategic challenge.
• Premise: Lets face it, most of us got this game on it's premise alone.
• Chapter 6: No matter who you choose, you will feel like an ass for not picking the others.

The Bad

• The story itself. This has been talked about to death and this is neither the time nor the place for another debate. Did I like it? Not especially, I thought it was a waste of its potential.
• Player Worship: Again, another thing that has been talked about to death. Perhaps it is a part of making the player avatar the protagonist, but holy crap, it is bad in this game, possibly the worst I have seen.
• Certain Unit Designs: "Hey Camilla? Your... chest is a little exposed to arrow fire, don't you think?" "Uh Effie? Why aren't you wearing pants?" "Hey Sophie, forgive me for asking, but wouldn't wearing trousers prevent your thighs from chaffing as badly as they are?"
• Segregation between outside characterization and plot: Xander, morally right and chivalrous prince but also very kind as based on his supports. In the plot; an ineffective individual who is unable to recognize changes around him.
• Hoshidoan Awakening reincarnations: I'm willing to cut the Nohrian Trio some slack (at least until I play invisible history), but the Hoshidoan ones? Gods no. Between bringing the creepy stalker back and gutting what made Cordelia an interesting and engaging character, they are not good additions to that roster.
• Implications of Children: "I'm going to have a nice long discussion with you Odin regarding Elise's (WHO IS 15)... Condition. Yes, my sword will be joining us. No it will not be a painless talk."

The Ugly

• Children as a whole: The whole eugenics system in this game just screams "included because it was popular" and wasn't given much thought. The child characters as a whole are weaker from a characterization standpoint than the Awakening kids (I can guarantee you that none of them will make it into the next Fire Emblem) and the whole hyperbolic time chamber that created them is just bollocks. Time travel is a can of worms for any plot, but hyperbolic time chambers are far worse.
• The Dragon Vein. As stated above, it can create some interesting tactical opportunities. But in many cases, its use is forced to prevent bad things from happening to your force. A mixed bag.
• 3 Routes 3 Games: While this does mean triple the Fire Emblem, and that is always a good thing. I can't help but wonder if the game's plot as a whole would be more solid if there was only one or two routes...

It is a bit too early for me to make any call on DLC, but as of right now it would be in the Ugly category. Does it help? Yes. Boo Camp and the Gold DLC can help to plug a few holes in a Conquest playthrough, but the scaling of difficulty to match your characters levels means that what many expected to be an easy way to grind is now far more challenging. I don't mind, but a lot do.

No complaints from me about what you just said. Makes sense since you described and detailed every point that quite a lot of us would understand and agree with. Pros and Cons that you mentioned are quite well thought out and deserve respect.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The Good:

My Castle is fun. A fully functional base that i can customize is something ive always wanted in FE. There are times i just spend a lot of minutes just looking around in the zoom feature.

The Balance. This is one of the most balanced FEs ive ever played. Sure, you can get hella OP, but you have to grind and devote a lot of time and resources to do this. Perhaps more than Awakening. (and even then, its not a failsafe) All these amazing weapons tend to have drawbacks despite the fact they dont break. Enemies can take attack and guard stances and even wreck your shit if you arent careful.

The majority of the characters are pretty great. The ones written well are written really well. (like Oboro and Ryoma) Some are a bit schlocky or annoying (Hayato, Nyx, etc) but not so bad im put off the whole cast.

The soundtrack is probably the best in FE history. My gods....

[spoiler=some examples]

*screams*

eeeee

If anyone could find the song that plays on the first part of chapter 27 of Conquest, ill be most pleased. I cant find it.

The maps are good. Theres really good ideas and challenge involved and its very refreshing from the same old Route Enemy/Defeat Boss shit. I got so tired of that in fe13.

Its just a very pretty game.

EVERYONE HAS FEET!

New PairUp is amazing and i love it so goddamn much.

The Bad:

Conquest has a very sloppy narrative and it creates a problem of not wanting to move forward with the game much, because of how dull it becomes. Or just plain nonsensical.

The RNG is a real pain in the butt. This could just be my own issue, but good gods! I do not take kindly to consistently missing at 90% hit rate, thanks.

Some characters get manhandled by the plot in all routes that its really annoying. Poor Scarlet...

Why can i only gay-marry like one person per route?

Kids were not necessary this time around. I dont mind them existing, but i dont think they needed to exist.

The UGLY:

Deeprealms. Why? I guess this ties in with kids existing, but honestly? This doesnt need to be a thing. Kids can exist in some other way.

Why can i S support these characters claiming to be my siblings by blood? Why on earth is that a thing? Stop that. If you are going to put incest in the story, make it fucking count. Discuss it. Explore it. Show the consequences.

Why is Rhajat the one we can gay-marry as a feMU? Localization really tore up this character to begin with, so it kinda kills any desire to make someone wanna go lesbian. :(

Awakening expies. Im actually ok with the three Awakening kids being a thing because they ARE those characters. But these three expies (Asugi, Caeldori, Rhajat) really do not need to exist at all. Not only that, but the amplifying of their worst traits to an obnoxious degree is very irksome.

S supporting everybody ever. Can we like, not?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Loki Laufeyson

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I haven't played Fates yet, I'm holding out as long as I can to try and get the Special Edition. And I entered a contest to try and win it so I gotta wait and see what happens. But from what I've seen, read, and heard...

Eh, why not? I decided to make a list of things I've liked in the game and the things I don't/didn't like. Keep in mind that these are my opinions, so they may differ from those of you that read this. Also, there may be spoilers!

The Good:

• The music. It's awesome. While I don't feel that it's as catchy as a few of the other titles, it's still very good. "Road Taken" is my favorite and I listen to it every time I do a challenge battle.
• The settings. The peaceful kingdom of Hoshido and the war-torn kingdom of Nohr. Black and white, yin and yang, good and evil... It's a simple concept, but it works and the characters and music fit the settings, as well. Characters in Hoshido are more brightly colored, but in looks and personality, and those in Nohr are more darker colored and strict. The fact that Hoshido is based off of historic Japan just makes it better for me.

The Bad:

• The children. In both Genology and Awakening, the children were essential, story-wise. Here, they feel like a forced, fanservice-y mechanic and, while the characters are still well-written, I feel like they didn't need to be there. Sure, they help improve your army, but other than that, they don't really have a reason to be there... While I'm on the topic of fanservice
• The fanservice. I understand IS just came from a tight spot with Awakening and they wanted to amaze more people with Fates, but the fanservice is everywhere. I guess this would be a good or a bad thing depending on what the people like, but still... Did we really need under-dressed characters, the gay marriage, and perverted touching (in Japan)? At some points, I found myself morally abused... Sometimes, I feel games are trying to be TOO realistic...
• The story. While I feel the setting is great, the story was predicable. The king of Nohr is evil and the peaceful queen of Hoshido dies. It's simple, I get that, but I felt it to be a somewhat lazy attempt at story writing.

The eh:

• The Pokemon-esque delivery. In other words, three games to play, each with their own story. I suppose this would be more accurate to the Oracle games in the Zelda series, actually. Fire Emblem is a long and expansive game and, while I think this certainly works great, I may not sit through three games. But I don't know yet.
• The DLC. For those of you that know me, I've never been a fan of paid DLC. I think that's once you buy a game, all the content should be on there, unlocked by skill rather than money. That said, the DLC is great and I get that the developers may have ideas too late, but I don't feel like spending the equivalent of a whole 'nother game (or more) on the DLC. I already did that with Awakening. Honestly, it just feels greedy to me...

Bad Don't hate me for having controversial opinions, please

Gay marriage options, I just don't feel they have a place in FE tbh, sorry.

Ugly

The fact this game is nearly 80% DLC.

^I would agree with all of this.

I like the music I've heard, but then again I generally enjoy the music of Fire Emblem.

The setting, the ideas of Hoshido and Nohr, seems to be really cool.

I also like several of the characters I've seen, particularly Leo, Kaze, Kaden, and Sakura, but I'd like to see more of them before making on concrete decisions about them.

I don't like the children mechanic, it just seems so out-of-place and unnecessary. Genealogy and Awakening had good reasons and mechanics for the kids, but this one? Doesn't seem so.

I don't like the return of the Awakening characters or the "reincarnated" Awakening characters...that just seems really stupid.

I don't like the fanservice, it's just a bit too much for me here. Camilla's outfit is just stupid and it just gets silly after a bit. And like Power Master, MC, and a few others, I'm not a fan of the gay marriages (and no, that does not make me a "bigot"), and the incest is just plain awful.

The story seems either so-so at best, or just plain bad from all I've read. I'll probably have to actually experience it first, but it doesn't sound too great.

And the thing I dislike the most is the Pokemon-style (or Zelda: Oracle of Seasons/Ages-style) delivery. It's something I've always frowned on. I don't like it. However, the main reason is because of the DLC, especially the Revelation DLC. They literally made an entire game DLC-only unless you get the Special Edition, and that angers me so freaking much. If the games did not have DLC and if the Revelations path (which is an entire freaking game!) was not DLC, then I'd be much more accepting of the Pokemon/Oracle of Seasons/Ages-style delivery. So, I suppose by extension, this also means I don't like the DLC. Revelations should not be DLC...

As for other more gameplay-centered things, such as the My Castle, removal of weapon durability, etc....I gotta experience 'em first.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Abvora]

"We're going to build a wall to keep out all that Nohrian scum, and we'll call it Susano'o." -Takumi on illegal immigration

oh my god

The Good:

- The characters. Say what you will about Fire Emblem's stories, it has always had a strong cast of characters, and this one is great even by their standards. Shout-outs to Takumi, Oboro, Charlotte, Flora, and Azura.

- The voice-acting is great and the cinematic cutscenes are even more beautiful than Awakening's.

- New Pair-Up mechanics. They took a broken mechanic and made it as close to perfect as possible.

- Music. Easily the best soundtrack this series has had.

- New weapons system. I know some dislike the removal of weapon durability, but I like the trade-off, of certain weapons having certain abilities/buffs.

- New classes are super fun to use.

- Localized skinship. I like the thought of Corrin calling on characters to just talk and hang out, and there are neat little tidbits of characterization in these sessions.

- Map design, especially on Conquest. Far more refreshing and fun than Awakening's.

- Emotional moments in the story were all handled well and hit me right in the gut.

- Feet.

The Meh:

- The rest of the story. Conquest was good in concept but poor in execution, Birthright was nothing special but solid, and Revelation was good but rushed. Basically: they all had flaws, they all could have been handled better, but I don't hate what we got.

- MyCastle and Lilith. Cool idea, but they seem out of place in the story.

- Return of Awakening characters (not the expies, those fall into Bad). I like seeing how far they've come since then, but really, they were fine where they were.

The Bad:

- Kids. Awful implementation, awful idea, just awful all around. The kiddie DLCs would have to be abnormally fantastic to make me even reconsider this stance. The Awakening expies are particularly awful, because they're just a cheaper clone of their Awakening selves.

- Incest. Unnecessary and trying to "justify" it made the story worse.

- Excessive fanservice. Looking at you, Camilla.

- The original skinship. Touching faces is just...eugh.

- Gay marriage. I'm conservative, I'll admit that, so I was opposed to this on principle please don't hate me. But that doesn't mean I wanted to see it handled as badly as it was.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Abvora

[StrikeZero]

Good:

• Story, especially that you can play as good, bad AND (my personal favorite) neutral, though i have yet to play Revelations.
• unbreakable weapons, its good because i don't have to worry about my weapon breaking out in a fight and the game does balance it out ( see Silver weapons)
• different modes allow for a wider range of players to pick it up, i know Casual has been accepted as a mode but Phoenix gets a lot of hate but it is helpful for people who don't play strategy games at all allowing them to beat the game slower but still allowing you to beat the dam game.
• My Castle, allowing you to have your own little interactive "town" so to say as opposed to say Path of Radiance when it was just a menu and getting/using resources in other castles is cool, plus castle battles are fun.
• Support conversations. though each interaction between 2 characters center around something specific some are very funny or offer insight towards the game (Ryoma's A with Azura and Felicia killed me)
• fighting both royal families hurt me, which is a good thing as i should feel bad about having to fight both families
• Music, no explanation needed

Bad:

• return of Awakening characters. why? just why? they are cool characters but were they necessary, or was they just to lazy to come up with more original characters or something?
• Kids. i wish we got some sort of scenes with them growing up before the paralogues or something, they are just to rushed, it would've been better to use the games day-night cycle so after like a few in-game days we got their paralogues or something.
• "what a great day!". talking to characters in My Castle but they only say 1 thing ever unless there is some sort of event with them like finding an item or teaming up.
• Acquisition of Yato. i don't like the fact that they just give it to you

Neutral/DLC oppinions:

• "Fan-service" i'm fine with the women dressing more "attractively" but it just doesn't make sense to not wear pants and the fact that they full on show you some of their undies ( Kinshi Knight Mozu, General Effie, Charlotte)
• Beach Brawl: its a fun little side quest and the images are nice, aside from Camilla ( who everyone expects to look like that in her picture) Xander, Leo and Takumi look like they are posing for a magazine cover.
• Boo Camp: it's not really necessary in Birthright or revelations but at the same time it does break the Conquest challenge though i assume its meant for more beginner players in that sense.
• Ghostly Gold: same as Boo Camp.
• Before Awakening. its free, and the reward of Hero/Exalt's Brand is a fine reward so i wish we get more "crossover" DLC
• Amiibo support. i count it as neutral as you do have to own said Amiibo and the Amiibo units are pretty strong but it't not a bad thing either as its a cool little addition to the game ( heres hoping for Roy Amiibo support)
• Museum Melee. again not REALLY needed but helpful for acquiring weapons and just straight up fun like the rest of the DLC though it would be cool if there was like a small chance of spawning random units/squads from other FE games
• DLC combat dialogue. some are funny and its just a overall cool thing to include.

Edited March 6, 2016 by StrikeZero

[warchiefwilliams]

The Meh:

- MyCastle and Lilith. Cool idea, but they seem out of place in the story.

How did I forget? Wait, wait, never mind, there is some delicious irony in forgetting her.

The Ugly

• Lilith: What a waste of potential. Lilith exists for no reason other than to be the intro to MyCastle and then be its mascot for all eternity.
  I couldn't even be arsed to skip her death cutscene in Conquest, that was how little I cared about her. And then to have Corrin break down as she dies? Please, losing captured boss characters hurt more. (yes I am quite the ass)

  The bad thing is that Lilith and Corrin obviously have an interesting history between the two of them, and it is clear that she harbors feelings for them (I am aware of the invisible history implications), why not make her a playable unit and giver her support chains? A staff/dragonstone unit would have made for a really interesting unit tactically. Argh, such a waste.

Edited March 6, 2016 by warchiefwilliams

[Thane]

[spoiler=Invisible Story DLC spoiler]Lilith's character is straight up confusing. She's Corrin's sister and...servers them as a maid for their entire life inexplicably, without saying anything about it. Why isn't this more relevant given this revelation?

Wait, people have problems with homosexuals being able to get married? Why? I mean, I understand complaining about the characterization, but to complain about two people of the same gender being able to marry? How come?

[NekoKnight]

The Bad:

- Incest. Unnecessary and trying to "justify" it made the story worse.

Ah, how could I forget. Them flip-flopping on whether they want a strong family theme or to see your siblings as potential waifu's really upset the tone. If you want to go the incest route, don't meet the concept halfway and make terrible excuses for why "it's not really incest".

[spoiler=Invisible Story DLC spoiler]Lilith's character is straight up confusing. She's Corrin's sister and...servers them as a maid for their entire life inexplicably, without saying anything about it. Why isn't this more relevant given this revelation?

Maybe that was mostly thought up in hindsight after the plot was completed? Invisible History just created even more plot holes. Don't get me started on the Awakening trio.

Edited March 6, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Thane]

Maybe that was mostly thought up in hindsight after the plot was completed? Invisible History just created even more plot holes. Don't get me started on the Awakening trio.

Yes but...why? Of all things to expand upon?

Ah, how could I forget. Them flip-flopping on whether they want a strong family theme or to see your siblings as potential waifu's really upset the tone. If you want to go the incest route, don't meet the concept halfway and make terrible excuses for why "it's not really incest".

"I've got this letter saying we're not related!"

"Then let's get busy without even bother to reflecting upon this!"

[NekoKnight]

Yes but...why? Of all things to expand upon?

I dunno. It's the same reason why a certain someone is revealed to be Kamui's cousin. It's just there because...eh, why not?

Rather than be yet another DLC, they should have just included the relevant story/drama/characterization in the main story.

Lilith revealed as being your sister doesn't do anything for me. She was a gimmick in the main game and she died pointlessly.

"I've got this letter saying we're not related!"

"Then let's get busy without even bother to reflecting upon this!"

More like...

Elise: *pomf* What are we going to do on the bed, Kamui?

But that's enough negativity for the thread (for now). I forgot to mention the smooth map to battle transitions plus "Blaze" variations of music for The Good.

Oh yes.

[warchiefwilliams]

Yes but...why? Of all things to expand upon?

Because DLC/money, sadly. And as a quick patch job to explain why the three most popular Awakening kids are in the new game. (not like it worked....)

"I've got this letter saying we're not related!"

"Then let's get busy without even bother to reflecting upon this!"

This absolutely ruined Birthright for me.

"You are telling me that you aren't even my blood family!?!?! What did I betray my Nohrian family for then?!?!?"

Edited March 6, 2016 by warchiefwilliams

[Loki Laufeyson]

Wait, people have problems with homosexuals being able to get married? Why? I mean, I understand complaining about the characterization, but to complain about two people of the same gender being able to marry? How come?

Honestly, i think im gonna skip out on the Invisible History dlc altogether.

Honestly, Thane, im asking the same questions. Cuz more people seem to be bothered by the fact theres gay marriage period, over who you can gay marry. Id really rather Rhajat not be the feMU gay marry option, and wish it were someone else (like Azura). But to complain about the fact its there at all, is...uhhhh the implications are so very unfortunate. : |

This absolutely ruined Birthright for me.

"You are telling me that you aren't even my blood family!?!?! What did I betray my Nohrian family for then?!?!?"

I tend to just ignore the fact thats even a thing even if it shows up (really out of the blue, mind) in supports. Theres literally NO REASON

that Takumi or Sakura cannot be blood related to Corn.

Things That Boil My Beans

[NekoKnight]

Because DLC/money, sadly. And as a quick patch job to explain why the three most popular Awakening kids are in the new game. (not like it worked....)

This absolutely ruined Birthright for me.

"You are telling me that you aren't even my blood family!?!?! What did I betray my Nohrian family for then?!?!?"

I always saw the choice as being Loyalty vs Morality rather than blood so that part didn't bother me. What does bother me is Ryoma lying about it to get you on his side and this never being brought up in the main plot.

[Thane]

I dunno. It's the same reason why a certain someone is revealed to be Kamui's cousin. It's just there because...eh, why not?

Rather than be yet another DLC, they should have just included the relevant story/drama/characterization in the main story.

Lilith revealed as being your sister doesn't do anything for me. She was a gimmick in the main game and she died pointlessly.

More like...

Elise: *pomf* What are we going to do on the bed, Kamui?

I agree with you, which is exactly why its inclusion is so mind-boggling.

Oh gods...doesn't Elise have some of the creepiest skinship lines in Japanese, too? Like, I remember reading that she doesn't even understand that she's getting horny, although hopefully that was someone lying/translating it poorly.

This absolutely ruined Birthright for me.

"You are telling me that you aren't even my blood family!?!?! What did I betray my Nohrian family for then?!?!?"

Well hey, we can't let Birthright look THAT much better (purely by comparison) than the other paths! Let's put a spanner in the works of the story!

Honestly, i think im gonna skip out on the Invisible History dlc altogether.

Honestly, Thane, im asking the same questions. Cuz more people seem to be bothered by the fact theres gay marriage period, over who you can gay marry. Id really rather Rhajat not be the feMU gay marry option, and wish it were someone else (like Azura). But to complain about the fact its there at all, is...uhhhh the implications are so very unfortunate. : |

I tend to just ignore the fact thats even a thing even if it shows up (really out of the blue, mind) in supports. Theres literally NO REASON

that Takumi or Sakura cannot be blood related to Corn.

Things That Boil My Beans

But there's literally no reason for people to complain; Niles and Rhajat are still romanceable when playing the opposite gender as well. Why would this incluson bother anyone?

And yes, I believe that's one of the things Sunwoo is incredibly frustrated about as well, and he was the one who pointed that out to me. It simply doesn't make any sense.

But I believe NekoKnight was right, let's add some positivity into this thread: support-wise, who has the best sibling chemistry with their respective families? I really liked Xander and Corrin's support, and his one with Leo is pretty sweet as well.

[Thor Odinson]

I always saw the choice as being Loyalty vs Morality rather than blood so that part didn't bother me. What does bother me is Ryoma lying about it to get you on his side and this never being brought up in the main plot.

I feel like those sibling S rank bullshit are definitely after-thoughts written with no regards of what actually happens, so I feel like Ryoma's characterization here is the victim to bad fanservice than anything else.

Chances are, the actual siblings things happened first, then somebody up top is like "man wouldn't it be great if you could bang them too"

[Shadow Knight]

I just finished beating both paths on hard classic so I'll throw in my 2 cents

The Good:

Characters: There are solid characters in this game, but to me it varied on the path. I think that Nohr had the better royals yet suffered from boring side characters. Whereas the reverse was true for Birthright. The Royals werebland and boring but the characters were good.

Moments: I think both stories had some fantastic moments that were very effective such as the end of chapter 25 of Conquest and Birthright's final boss.

Battle system: This is the real showstopper this time around. I love the battle system a lot more than awakenings. Throwing in debuffs and the changes made to support stance imo are fantastic. They just add so much more to the strategy and make it easier to help weaker characters. For once archers are incredibly useful, position them right and they can guarantee several otks. And the decision to lower overall stats was a good one as well. It increases the value of every unit while preventing certain units from becoming gods (to an extent, certain characters can still become gods.)

Music: The music is Incredible this time around. (Grabs sword and shield and quickly straps on armor) In fact I think this is the best soundtrack out of the entire series
The Meh:

The Difficulty: I don't have a major problem except for that towards the end both games, almost every character I had became pretty fragile. I did budget exp evenly between them all, but by the end of the games I ended up using my avatar with a high paired unit to just solo everything.

The Supports: Meh. There are some good ones mixed in but for the most part while I could tell you the content of any of the supports from POR or Awakening fro example I don't remember these really. Overall they get the job done, but other than that they aren't great.
The Bad:

The Story: Hoo boy this was a real letdown for me. While imo Awakening's story, though not on the level of Genealogy or POR, was a solid story which got the job done Fate's stories on both sides are complete messes in my opinion. There are some fantastic moments, but these moments only highlight what could have been, and some of the directions and decisions with the story are just baffling at certain points. Like why the heck does Garon continually forgive Kamui even though it's clear that kamui was not following his orders? Why the heck does Kamui take Elise with him to the castle when he knows she is a healer and would only get in the way? Why the heck does Xander continue to fight Kamui after the death of his sister? At his own hand? Why would Kamui even support Garon at al after it's made clear to him that he was a pawn used to target his mother?

Besides these, there are several dumb things as well. Like in Birthright how Leo gives you a book which magically teleports you to the rainbow sage.... then magically teleports you back....

Kamui: I like having an Avatar but Kamui is pretty bad in this game plot wise. Not only does he apparently never kill anyone in all of his battles (save for one or two choice characters) but the plot essentially bows to him to protect his foolish all-loving hero personality. For example when order to kill the rainbow sage Kamui refuses.... and the rainbow sage just chooses to die. Despite Kamui not actually doing what he wanted Garon just forgives him. He apparently goes through battle after battle knocking out every single soldier who stands in his way... somehow as he stabs with his sword, smashes with his club, pierces with his shuriken, incinerates with his magic, skewers with his spear, and obliterates with his dragon blood. :facepalm:

Children: I didn't even use them at all. I don't mind them really but they are sort of forced in here. Awakening and Genealogy did it much better by incorporating them into the story but it's clear here that they were stuffed in. There are already so many characters in the game that I didn't even care about getting them all. Though their paralogues are useful for grinding.


Overall: I'd give these games an 8/10. The gameplay is simply stellar and there are some very good characters this time around. But what it really boils down to here is originality and risk. Where they did take risks in the game, such as the gameplay, you can see the results. But they take little to no risks with the story and definitely with Kamui. That is why they fail in those regards.

To me Xander put it best when he said, "In war there is no right and wrong." This is a risky statement, it invites a great debate on his actions and beliefs. But it also was the reason that he was one of my favorite characters because I found myself agreeing with him. Especially when the siblings begin to drop, there is no going back. War is hell and atrocities are committed no matter which side you are on. Which is why order must be restored at any cost, so that accountability can be brought back to the table. But is it moral to essentially drop morals and loyalties even if it means bringing peace?

And I have not played revelations yet. But to sum everything up, I think Fates is a fantastic game, but also a great missed opportunity.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Shadow Knight

[Azure Sen]

The Good:

• The characters. Aside from a few notable exceptions, I ended up liking most of the characters once I read their supports, even ones like Takumi and Charlotte who I didn't expect to like.
• Dragon's Vein. In general the idea of being able to manipulate terrain for a tactical advantage is a cool idea, and other than a few missteps in certain stages I think it really works well.
• The level design for Conquest. Again, except for a few exceptions, very well thought out and enjoyable to play.
• The new throwing weapons, and the concept of having different factions use different versions of the same weapons. I hope the latter comes back, even if it's just for flavor in the next FE.

The Bad

• Conquest's story. This one I've discussed at length, so I that's all I will say about it in this thread.
• Peri. She gets her own entry simply because who thought it was a good idea to have an anime "psycho girl" character in the game.
• The justifications for the pseudo-incest on both routes. Just...why? Was it really so important that Corrin be able to marry everyone?
• Speaking of, the actual incest that happens on both routes. Not even the spoilery stuff, just that the first cousin kids can still marry each other even if their parents are blood siblings.

The Meh

• The implementation of the children mechanic. Most of the children by themselves are fine as characters, it's just that IS's attempt to shoehorn them in where they didn't belong really did no one any good.
• My Castle. I don't love it, but I don't hate it, and if it was gone in the next FE game.
• Pair Up. While I feel Fates did it better, I'd still like to see it gone, but it's not a dealbreaker if it stays in.