Fire Emblem Fates: The Good and the Bad (spoilers)

[Loki Laufeyson]

I agree with you, which is exactly why its inclusion is so mind-boggling.

Oh gods...doesn't Elise have some of the creepiest skinship lines in Japanese, too? Like, I remember reading that she doesn't even understand that she's getting horny, although hopefully that was someone lying/translating it poorly.

Well hey, we can't let Birthright look THAT much better (purely by comparison) than the other paths! Let's put a spanner in the works of the story!

But there's literally no reason for people to complain; Niles and Rhajat are still romanceable when playing the opposite gender as well. Why would this incluson bother anyone?

And yes, I believe that's one of the things Sunwoo is incredibly frustrated about as well, and he was the one who pointed that out to me. It simply doesn't make any sense.

But I believe NekoKnight was right, let's add some positivity into this thread: support-wise, who has the best sibling chemistry with their respective families? I really liked Xander and Corrin's support, and his one with Leo is pretty sweet as well.

Who's S ranking Elise? *shrieks into the night*

Real talk though, i agree with you about Niles and Rhajat. There is no reason to complain at all. (outside possible characterization quibbles. I like Niles just fine, but i dont care for Rhajat. Localization did something terrible with her and she comes off worse than Tharja ever did.)

Yeah Sunwoo and I have talked about these things that boil our beans at some length. And now that ive played the game, its even more frustrating. Theres also this thing that happens in supports.

mostly with Hinoka, but theres discussion with Corrin and the Hoshisibs about Mikoto not being their real mum. But it never fucking comes up in the main plot and kinda blindsides you and yer like "what the shit, game?" Corrin acts like they've known this piece of information the whole time in the supports too. Ugh.

Im very fond of the dynamics between both families with each other (not so much Corn). I like Xander and Leo's supports.

I feel like those sibling S rank bullshit are definitely after-thoughts written with no regards of what actually happens, so I feel like Ryoma's characterization here is the victim to bad fanservice than anything else.

Chances are, the actual siblings things happened first, then somebody up top is like "man wouldn't it be great if you could bang them too"

I agree with this. And oooooh man still boiling the beans. Wont someone think of the beans!

[NekoKnight]

I feel like those sibling S rank bullshit are definitely after-thoughts written with no regards of what actually happens, so I feel like Ryoma's characterization here is the victim to bad fanservice than anything else.

Chances are, the actual siblings things happened first, then somebody up top is like "man wouldn't it be great if you could bang them too"

Not only is it contrived but it hurts the characterization of others, like Ryoma. If and when I get around to that story rewrite, this story element is getting excised.

Oh gods...doesn't Elise have some of the creepiest skinship lines in Japanese, too? Like, I remember reading that she doesn't even understand that she's getting horny, although hopefully that was someone lying/translating it poorly.

If this Gamefaqs post is to be believed.... I wouldn't know, I didn't skinship her.

Elise confirmed for POMF and Kamui'ed inside

Honestly, i think im gonna skip out on the Invisible History dlc altogether.

Honestly, Thane, im asking the same questions. Cuz more people seem to be bothered by the fact theres gay marriage period, over who you can gay marry. Id really rather Rhajat not be the feMU gay marry option, and wish it were someone else (like Azura). But to complain about the fact its there at all, is...uhhhh the implications are so very unfortunate. : |

As someone said before, the positive side to this is you learn who not to talk to on the forum.

Edited March 7, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Shadow Knight]

Oh gods...doesn't Elise have some of the creepiest skinship lines in Japanese, too? Like, I remember reading that she doesn't even understand that she's getting horny, although hopefully that was someone lying/translating it poorly.

Ugh, Elise was the character that I considered the closest to being a sister. Camilla was ok but being an elder sibling myself, the whole big sister shpeal never stuck. Well, that and she has no concept of personal space

Stayed far away from that S support with Elise

Edited March 7, 2016 by Shadow Knight

[Loki Laufeyson]

Not only is it contrived but it hurts the characterization of others, like Ryoma. If and when I get around to that story rewrite, this story element is getting excised.

If this Gamefaqs post is to be believed.... I wouldn't know, I didn't skinship her.

Elise confirmed for POMF and Kamui'ed inside

As someone said before, the positive side to this is you learn who not to talk to on the forum.

Yer doing a rewrite too? In mine, the two younger Hoshisibs will definitely be blood related. Cuz AGH THEY SHOULD BE.

And yeah, that is definitely a positive and a sign of who to avoid at all costs.

Bolded:

[BrightBow]

If this Gamefaqs post is to be believed.... I wouldn't know, I didn't skinship her.

Elise confirmed for POMF and Kamui'ed inside

Who knows if that translation is actually accurate. But she is a child, you are supposed to want to bang her because she is a child and the "skinship" lines are supposed to be sexual. I find it difficult to imagine that it isn't something along those lines.

I hope the poor sales of the Tellius games will prevent them from ever being remade. The thought of IS using characters like Mist and Rolf to their chikan game makes me sick.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Oh! I found the song that i was looking for!

[spoiler=Glory/Ruin]

so good

[Alex95]

Yeah, it did drag out much longer than an average person could plan out. I'm sorry if I'm one of the root causes, I'm normally quiet and reserved, I decided to break that tradition about myself. Still, people gave their ideas (and complaints about the game and other people).

Possible Good Thing (if it ever happened): Allow players to use the speakers on their 3DS to speak to other players when using their Avatar.

And now I've been gone all afternoon and three more pages showed up! Wow!

I had intended this topic to be a place where everyone can post their own Good/Bad/Ehs on Fates. I guess it's nice that this blew up so quickly, though. Shows people are really interested in defending their interests and thoughts on the games.

[Emblem Blade]

And now I've been gone all afternoon and three more pages showed up! Wow!

I had intended this topic to be a place where everyone can post their own Good/Bad/Ehs on Fates. I guess it's nice that this blew up so quickly, though. Shows people are really interested in defending their interests and thoughts on the games.

I might need to tone down and stay quiet for other people's sake to avoid causing needless arguments though.

[Alex95]

I might need to tone down and stay quiet for other people's sake to avoid causing needless arguments though.

I also foresaw the arguments. You can't talk about controversial stuff without arguments. If you wish to remain quiet, perhaps just post your own Good/Bad/Eh and call it good (if you haven't already)

[Emblem Blade]

I also foresaw the arguments. You can't talk about controversial stuff without arguments. If you wish to remain quiet, perhaps just post your own Good/Bad/Eh and call it good (if you haven't already)

I did summarize my good and bad in a way that might have been too bland and not easily understandable. I can add more:

*Good: Music (outstanding as normal for a FE game in the series), new maps, more characters (this could also be a bad as some characters on both sides could use more character development as the story progresses), newer weapons.

*Bad: Storyline (feels a bit short to some of the older games before it in a way), DLC content takes quite a long time be released (this is justified though in a way) and Story DLC (as in Birthright, Conquest and Revelations) would better off being available after clearing the actual game for the first time on Normal or Hard (such as if you bought Conquest, upon clearing it on the first time on Hard then Birthright becomes available. Clearing Birthright on Normal or Hard unlocks Revelation to be available).

[Thor Odinson]

Not only is it contrived but it hurts the characterization of others, like Ryoma. If and when I get around to that story rewrite, this story element is getting excised.

Please do because it's basically bullshit, hurts the entire premise of the family theme the advertising played big on, and hurts so many characters involved just for lol marry everyone

[S_Cero]

The Good:

• The gameplay is pretty great and fun at times (especially in conquest) though it is bogged down by annoying map gimmicks and pair up being better than attack stance 9/10 times.
• Great OST but no badass recruitment theme knocks it down a couple pegs.
• Some great characters and some good supports.

The Bad:

• Everything else.

[Noma9]

Incoming opinions!

The Good:

-The Characters. For the most part, I think the cast is pretty great. Some might get tarnished by the story from time to time, but they're all pretty quality and a big step up from Awakening. I think they hit a good mix of slightly outrageous, readily likable, eccentric characters and ones with more subtle characterization. I constantly found myself being pleasantly surprised by units I didn't think I'd like at all. There's a lot of charm between the siblings especially.

-The Soundtrack.

-Pair Up. So very improved.

-Design. The map design in particular is so good in Conquest, and even Birthright is improved over Awakening. Huge thumbs up for this. Dragon Vein gimmicks are also mostly good, even if I found it a little too intrusive on some maps. Exceeded my expectations.

-New/Tweaked Classes and Skills. Lots of fun, especially the inclusion of personal skills. Skill acquisition still isn't where I want it to be, but I like what's been done. Bought Birthright simply because I had to play around with all the new classes and skills. Do not regret it in the least.

-Supports. The majority of the ones I've seen have been really good. The S supports are still fairly insidious, however. One day we will not have children and the need for everyone to be attracted to everyone will cease and we can finally have some extra quality control. That's not to say all the romantic ones are bad, in fact I think this game had some of the best, despite the questionable marriage candidates. I'd just like a little diversity. But really, I know Treehouse gets a lot of crap, some certainly deserved, but I can't really complain about most of what I've seen.

The Bad:

-Children. Their personalities aren't all so bad, and I appreciate that they don't completely invalidate their parents existence as a unit the minute they show up, but there was just no need for it. They're handled so poorly, completely ignored by the narrative (Hello, I think Garon would actually be kinda interested that all his kids suddenly has heirs all of a sudden.), and are the result of the disease known as S-Supports that basically destroyed the very promising premise of these games.

-Story. Everyone knows this by now. But really, even for as braindead stupid as the plot for Conquest is, it wouldn't have been half as bad if Corrin and the other Nobles weren't so pleased to be passive agents in their own damn route. If they had tried to do something, even if it ended badly, at least they would be trying. I know they were going for a sort of double agent, subterfuge sort of deal, but that's not actually what happened. Never once were they really able to ever subvert the antagonists overall goals until they actively started cutting some throats for the good guys. The grand plot of the three routes isn't anything to write home about either.

-Awakening Characters. I liked them just fine in their own game, but they had no business being here. Probably the laziest form of pandering.

-Corrin. They've got marshmallows for brains and are like teflon for anything interesting. As much as I like getting to customize the way a character looks and their stats and such, they really need to change how they do this avatar business. I'd just as soon get rid of it entirely, but at the very least allow us some freedom when it comes to personality and the decisions they make, because otherwise they aren't really an avatar. The passiveness of Corrins character and the intense ass-kissing from the other characters is very boring to experience. A good story is about conflict and when everyone loves you, that's a hard thing to pull off. I'd much rather have a character that takes action, even if they make mistakes and enemies doing so.

-Incest. This is part of fanservice and part of the story, but problematic all the same. The fact that the game constantly sacrifices what made the plot so appealing in the first place just so you can marry all the people is the base of basically everything that went wrong with this game. While they could have explored the issue of incest and what that would mean for the characters involved, I really doubt they'd have the chops to handle it well, so instead they completely ignore it. They really shouldn't have bothered with it at all.

-Segregation. Of plot and things that happen elsewhere. Why doesn't anyone acknowledge their spouses or children ever? Why do plot bombs go completely ignored? Why is the crown prince marrying his sister going completely uncommented on and why are they still calling each other brother and sister??? Why won't anyone ask why the entire army is wearing chef hats into battle?

-Peri. Seriously.

The Eh:

-The Setting. I get that there's a theme of contrasts with these games, but I can't say I'm all that in love with the kingdoms. I just feel that as much time as we spend in them, I never got an actual feel for what they were really like. Okay, Nohr is really dark and I guess people are commonly amoral? and Hoshido is really, uh, verdant? And Japanese? It's just, when I play PoR, for instance, going from Crimea to Gallia to Begnion, the journey gives me a very clear understanding of the differences between those places and their people. In fates I'll see the Ice Tribe and Cheve and the Wind Tribe and then the Hoshido capital and they all look pretty different but I don't actually feel like I learned anything about those places or Fates' setting as a whole. Other than there are a lot more dead people at those places. Am I crazy? Does anyone else feel this way? it's like I got a quick "best of" tour instead of actually experiencing those places first hand.

-Castle. I like having a base of operations with shops and such, and I even like having a little extra to do to between chapters, but I have a hard time reconciling the Castle and its benefits with how it negatively affects the pacing and over all tone of the game. I miss Base Conversations especially-- if they had simply added in some conversations that reflected what was going on in the plot, I'd probably be a lot more forgiving, but as it is, I just don't know how I feel about it.

-Fanservice. I can't say I particularly enjoy the amount of fanservice in Fates, but I'm not completely disgusted by it either. Personally, I think it's poorly handled in most instances. I don't need the clothes and armor a character wears to be realistic, even if riding an animal without wearing any pants is the worst idea; it's okay because fantasy. I do have an issue with certain units being happy to show off their crotch in battle when there's nothing about their character that supports that. Camilla is sort of flirty in supports and obviously comfortable with herself and the way her body looks, so while I still think her design is dumb, I don't think it's inappropriate for her. Same goes for a character like Charlotte, or even Nyx, who really views and conducts herself as the grown woman she actually is. But Effie? Ha! Pantslessness should not be the default for female designs, thank you very much.

-Three Routes. Not a fan of splitting the game and story like this. There's lots of unique content to each route, but the justification for the three separate games is supposed to be this epic tale of warring kingdoms and families and we all know that's crap. It's obvious that they neutered the stories in C&B to leave the "true tale" to the DLC third route, which is a mess in and of itself. If they had stuck to the way they had original advertised the game-- that is, settling a war between the two kingdoms a different way from either side-- I think everything would have been much more successful, because it's that third route that seems to be at the heart of the problem with the other games. I also think the Pokemon comparisons are unfair, since Pokemon isn't designed with the intent of an individual player buying both games, rather everyone picking a version and interacting with one another to get the Pokermens. Fates is the exact opposite; three very different titles that only make sense when you've experienced all three.

-Weapons. I don't know. I didn't like the idea of unbreakable weapons at first, but decided I needed to play for myself to get a proper feel for it and now. . . I still don't know. People say it's less tedious, but I feel like it's a hell of a lot more numbers to keep track of all of a sudden and since there are just so damned many of the things, I feel like the inventory is more cluttered than ever before. People kept saying they never liked using their super weapons since they were limited, and just stuck to iron and steel all game, but now weapons have such extreme drawbacks that there's still a ton of people using just iron and steel again. I don't hate it from a strategic point, but it feels like a lot. Perhaps if their were less random weapons? I don't know. I still don't know.

-Gay Supports. I like that they exist, but not that they suck and that there are only the two of them, only one per game and one locked to a child unit of all things. I would like to see more in the future, along with a radically more diverse pool of supports.

-Skinship. Even without the petting it can get tedious to "bond" with your mate all the time. Like, gawd Kaze, I've got a headache. I like the random lines from other characters and getting to see the live 2d models, so that's a plus. But I'd be lying if I said I'd miss it if it had been cut completely.

-RNG. Does anyone know what's going on here? Because it sure is more reliably random.


I know this is all kinds of whiny, but I don't believe in reserving criticism from things your care about, and I really do care about FE, and I really, really enjoyed Fates.

[Ginkgo]

The child thing was just lazy, they could have much more easily brought a lot more unity to the series by even going with something as simple as "Sometimes intense emotions between two people will allow for a special Einherjar that seems to be a very human combination of the two souls to be summoned"

Not only would that have fixed up the whole Einherjar thing from being a weird-nonplot-thing-that-no-one-ever-talks-about but you also wouldn't even need to deus ex machina in the children.

Though that would probably ruin the fan-servicey implied sex for a lot of people, but would also logically allow same-sex unions to produce units.

I feel like for all the work they put into this game, nobody ever actually sat down and thought about things.

Why even bother trying to shoe-horn the same character into the main role in both plots, I don't think Corrin is truly awful or anything, but he's kind of lame and convictionless for a main character and gets pushed around by pretty much everyone. Why not just make a Xander type prince/princess be the Nohrian lead and a Ryoma type prince/princess be the hoshidan lead.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Ginkgo

[Tolvir]

The Good

Characters were really good. One of the best cast of characters in Fire Emblem, awakening trio included.

The stories premise was really good. It had a lot of potential, and while the story didn't reach that potential, it still isn't that bad of a story while compared to other games.

The armor designs were 10 times better in this one. Yes, we got a lot more "fanservice" designs with Camila, Charlotte and a few others, but overall they looked way better than Awakening's.

Combat animations were really good too. They felt a lot more smooth, except for a few like Nohr Nobles tome animation. The fights are entertaining to watch, and I like that the background reflects where they are currently fighting rather than the generic backgrounds.

My Castle was a great addition, and I hope it is here to stay. It has so much potential if it gets expanded upon in further games.

The split games turned out way better than people expected. All three games felt like their own experience that could hold their own.

The new weapon system is great. I think Silver debuffs need to be lowered, but overall it made the weapons way more strategic. It made me actually think of what weapon would be best to use, and made a character capable of using multiple types like Weapons Masters so much more useful.

The supports were an upgrade from Awakening. Some of the S supports seemed to naturally flow more than awakening, even though there are still quite a few that are a bit reaching. The inclusion of A+ hopefully will mean more platonic supports in the future, and the 2nd gen characters showed they are capable of writing them. The 2nd gen supports seemed more generic unfortunately, and I hope they either improve upon this next time, or don't include them at all. The same gender supports don't bother me. While I couldn't care less about them, more power to the ones that either wanted them, or liked them.

While skinship was bad, I really liked what came out of localized My Room. I really hope this stays and gets expanded upon in the future as I can see this as more ways to learn about our favorite characters, and have more interactions with them.

Accessories are a lot of fun to play around with, nothing is more hilarious when you have a character show up in a cutscene that is meant to be serious with a jester hat on or sunglasses. Hope this gets expanded upon in either DLC, or in future games.

Gameplay and map variation is so much better. I actually enjoyed the majority of the maps this time around, unlike Awakening's bland maps. I loved the gimmicks to the maps, as they made them more strategic and memorable. I hope the ledge feature makes a return in future games like Radiant Dawn.

The Live2d models were an interesting inclusion. I really liked them as they made the characters seem more "alive" and relateable, but their animations were a bit too energetic and weird. It made sense for characters such as Elise or Soleil, but people like Azura or Ryoma don't seem to be the type that would be moving all over the place while talking. As it is their first time using it, I can see it not being perfect, but really hope they fix it in the future. Overall I hope it is here to stay, and can see areas where it could be implemented more, but I really don't want to see them in supports, the more static portraits are fine for those.

There are more things that I consider good, but will exclude them so I don't end up writing an entire essay on the subject.

The Bad

2nd gen wasn't explained well enough, and wasn't needed. While I personally don't mind as I liked a lot of the 2nd gen this time around, I didn't see why they were needed. Though they did give some really fun maps to play, and gave Nohr some flexibility with getting levels before getting to the harder parts of the game. If they return next time, they need a better explanation, and I would like to see their supports be less generic with parents. I would also love to see the supports get expanded to potential grandparents, uncles/aunts, and cousins. I think a Kana support with Gunter, Ryoma, and Xander would of had the potential to be hilarious supports.

The story, while having potential and a good premise, fell a bit short. I think that IS should of taken an additional year to a year and a half on development to really flesh out the story and explain things. The story overall felt really rushed along, and I think if they had taken the extra time, we could of had something on the levels of FF VII or Mass Effect here.

Most supports were too rushed to the S support. Next time I think one of two things need to happen. Either we lower the amount of S supports, or we implement a feature that would expand upon supports once you hit S, that fills in the gaps between being romantically interested in each other, and marriage.

While I liked the scripted deaths as they added more to the story, they really were poorly handled. The deaths that happened for characters on your side felt either unneeded, or didn't have an effect emotionally. Next time I think it could be handled better.

The Ugly

Multiplayer, its about time we get fully functioning multiplayer, but you really screwed it up this time. If we are going to have multiplayer, we either need to remove skills so that it is based more on the strategic mind of the players, or balance them out better. The puppet warp stuff really is going to, and has ruined multiplayer as everyone's teams will be a cookie cutter copy of each other. Point Blank Shot isn't going to help either. I think they need to take a page from Xcom and have the player piece together their team before the match with a point limit reducing the chance of having OP cookie cutter teams. I also think having the player use generic units would be nice too, and could actually be fun.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Tolvir

[joshcja]

The good: Conquest, all of it (The plot did its job of justifying my murder and that's all I want)

The meh: Birthright, still fun but its notably less fun gameplay/charecter wise (and the plot makes 0 sense once you learn the hoshidans are flat out lieing to you about blood relation etc)

The bad: Skill buying is dumb

Edited March 7, 2016 by joshcja

[Emblem Blade]

The Good

Characters were really good. One of the best cast of characters in Fire Emblem, awakening trio included.

The stories premise was really good. It had a lot of potential, and while the story didn't reach that potential, it still isn't that bad of a story while compared to other games.

The armor designs were 10 times better in this one. Yes, we got a lot more "fanservice" designs with Camila, Charlotte and a few others, but overall they looked way better than Awakening's.

Combat animations were really good too. They felt a lot more smooth, except for a few like Nohr Nobles tome animation. The fights are entertaining to watch, and I like that the background reflects where they are currently fighting rather than the generic backgrounds.

My Castle was a great addition, and I hope it is here to stay. It has so much potential if it gets expanded upon in further games.

The split games turned out way better than people expected. All three games felt like their own experience that could hold their own.

The new weapon system is great. I think Silver debuffs need to be lowered, but overall it made the weapons way more strategic. It made me actually think of what weapon would be best to use, and made a character capable of using multiple types like Weapons Masters so much more useful.

The supports were an upgrade from Awakening. Some of the S supports seemed to naturally flow more than awakening, even though there are still quite a few that are a bit reaching. The inclusion of A+ hopefully will mean more platonic supports in the future, and the 2nd gen characters showed they are capable of writing them. The 2nd gen supports seemed more generic unfortunately, and I hope they either improve upon this next time, or don't include them at all. The same gender supports don't bother me. While I couldn't care less about them, more power to the ones that either wanted them, or liked them.

While skinship was bad, I really liked what came out of localized My Room. I really hope this stays and gets expanded upon in the future as I can see this as more ways to learn about our favorite characters, and have more interactions with them.

Accessories are a lot of fun to play around with, nothing is more hilarious when you have a character show up in a cutscene that is meant to be serious with a jester hat on or sunglasses. Hope this gets expanded upon in either DLC, or in future games.

Gameplay and map variation is so much better. I actually enjoyed the majority of the maps this time around, unlike Awakening's bland maps. I loved the gimmicks to the maps, as they made them more strategic and memorable. I hope the ledge feature makes a return in future games like Radiant Dawn.

The Live2d models were an interesting inclusion. I really liked them as they made the characters seem more "alive" and relateable, but their animations were a bit too energetic and weird. It made sense for characters such as Elise or Soleil, but people like Azura or Ryoma don't seem to be the type that would be moving all over the place while talking. As it is their first time using it, I can see it not being perfect, but really hope they fix it in the future. Overall I hope it is here to stay, and can see areas where it could be implemented more, but I really don't want to see them in supports, the more static portraits are fine for those.

There are more things that I consider good, but will exclude them so I don't end up writing an entire essay on the subject.

The Bad

2nd gen wasn't explained well enough, and wasn't needed. While I personally don't mind as I liked a lot of the 2nd gen this time around, I didn't see why they were needed. Though they did give some really fun maps to play, and gave Nohr some flexibility with getting levels before getting to the harder parts of the game. If they return next time, they need a better explanation, and I would like to see their supports be less generic with parents. I would also love to see the supports get expanded to potential grandparents, uncles/aunts, and cousins. I think a Kana support with Gunter, Ryoma, and Xander would of had the potential to be hilarious supports.

The story, while having potential and a good premise, fell a bit short. I think that IS should of taken an additional year to a year and a half on development to really flesh out the story and explain things. The story overall felt really rushed along, and I think if they had taken the extra time, we could of had something on the levels of FF VII or Mass Effect here.

Most supports were too rushed to the S support. Next time I think one of two things need to happen. Either we lower the amount of S supports, or we implement a feature that would expand upon supports once you hit S, that fills in the gaps between being romantically interested in each other, and marriage.

While I liked the scripted deaths as they added more to the story, they really were poorly handled. The deaths that happened for characters on your side felt either unneeded, or didn't have an effect emotionally. Next time I think it could be handled better.

The Ugly

Multiplayer, its about time we get fully functioning multiplayer, but you really screwed it up this time. If we are going to have multiplayer, we either need to remove skills so that it is based more on the strategic mind of the players, or balance them out better. The puppet warp stuff really is going to, and has ruined multiplayer as everyone's teams will be a cookie cutter copy of each other. Point Blank Shot isn't going to help either. I think they need to take a page from Xcom and have the player piece together their team before the match with a point limit reducing the chance of having OP cookie cutter teams. I also think having the player use generic units would be nice too, and could actually be fun.

*The children could use more in-depth descriptions on why they were placed there outside of 'To avoid getting killed in the real world'. Additionally, like Awakening, you don't need to do the Paralogues for the them, you can just ignore them if you don't like them.

*Expanding support conversations (S-Rank) is a nice idea to add as they usually are short lived, but then again so were Awakening's S-Rank Marriage Supports to me. Reducing the amount of marriage options for characters wouldn't help expand the dialogue or anything, at most it would reduce the amount of dialogue that would involve as there isn't many options.

*Relationship supports is one thing but the children don't really know anyone else other than their main parent (Corrin), so seeing an expanded dialogue would be a very good change.

*Let's try to stay on-topic regarding FE here, I know I can get sidetracked but let's only compare FE games to FE games to compare/contrast as it reduces confusion for people who have no idea why we mentioned a completely different game that what is presented.

*Not all the scripted deaths were bad, some where actually decent enough to make people regret their path decisions. Scripted deaths that made sense or were well done were mainly Elise (Birthright), Scarlet (Revelation) and Lilith (Birthright and Conquest) and possible Ryoma (Conquest), Mikoto (Every Route) and Flora (Birthright).

*Online battles will never really change, players want to have fun even if it ruins the fun for others. I hope that this isn't the case.

The good: Conquest, all of it (The plot did its job of justifying my murder and that's all I want)

The meh: Birthright, still fun but its notably less fun gameplay/charecter wise (and the plot makes 0 sense once you learn the hoshidans are flat out lieing to you about blood relation etc)

The bad: Skill buying is dumb

It's both on both routes in a way. Conquest justifies Nohr's reasons for trying to invade Hoshido to most of the context but they also fail to explain that none of your Nohr Siblings are really your 'siblings' at all by blood (especially when all but Leo try to imply that you are still blood-related to them by conversations). Conquest has a harder challenge for leveling up which is what makes it arguably better than Birthright gameplay-wise. In Birthright, the story is more around character development (at least to me) as characters experience more hardships and challenges that changes their thoughts and beliefs. Birthright isn't so much as taking on real challenges (exp. and gold) that Conquest has you cope with. At least the Hoshido Royal Family admits the truth about not being blood-related in their S-Rank Supports with Corrin.

Skill Buying is rather dumb once you realize how cheap it can become when you don't really need it. Then again you can unintentionally help beginners who might not make it very far in the game on Hard or Lunatic which is a very nice action.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Tolvir]

*The children could use more in-depth descriptions on why they were placed there outside of 'To avoid getting killed in the real world'. Additionally, like Awakening, you don't need to do the Paralogues for the them, you can just ignore them if you don't like them.

*Expanding support conversations (S-Rank) is a nice idea to add as they usually are short lived, but then again so were Awakening's S-Rank Marriage Supports to me. Reducing the amount of marriage options for characters wouldn't help expand the dialogue or anything, at most it would reduce the amount of dialogue that would involve as there isn't many options.

*Relationship supports is one thing but the children don't really know anyone else other than their main parent (Corrin), so seeing an expanded dialogue would be a very good change.

*Let's try to stay on-topic regarding FE here, I know I can get sidetracked but let's only compare FE games to FE games to compare/contrast as it reduces confusion for people who have no idea why we mentioned a completely different game that what is presented.

*Not all the scripted deaths were bad, some where actually decent enough to make people regret their path decisions. Scripted deaths that made sense or were well done were mainly Elise (Birthright), Scarlet (Revelation) and Lilith (Birthright and Conquest) and possible Ryoma (Conquest), Mikoto (Every Route) and Flora (Birthright).

*Online battles will never really change, players want to have fun even if it ruins the fun for others. I hope that this isn't the case.

It's both on both routes in a way. Conquest justifies Nohr's reasons for trying to invade Hoshido to most of the context but they also fail to explain that none of your Nohr Siblings are really your 'siblings' at all by blood (especially when all but Leo try to imply that you are still blood-related to them by conversations). Conquest has a harder challenge for leveling up which is what makes it arguably better than Birthright gameplay-wise. In Birthright, the story is more around character development (at least to me) as characters experience more hardships and challenges that changes their thoughts and beliefs. Birthright isn't so much as taking on real challenges (exp. and gold) that Conquest has you cope with. At least the Hoshido Royal Family admits the truth about not being blood-related in their S-Rank Supports with Corrin.

Skill Buying is rather dumb once you realize how cheap it can become when you don't really need it. Then again you can unintentionally help beginners who might not make it very far in the game on Hard or Lunatic which is a very nice action.

I don't know how I went off topic, all I pointed out is that if IS took the extra time to fully develop the story we could of had a story that is on par with the story telling of games like Final Fantasy 7 and Mass Effect, which are both very well written games/game series.

When I said scripted deaths on your side, I mean ones like

Kaze or Lilith because well, they had no impact. You have no attachement to Lilith due to story irrelevance, and Kaze dies out of no where, and to be honest there was no reason for his death, so it was an empty sacrifice that results in no emotional response. By the way you should really spoiler tag your stuff, not everyone has played all the routes. Ryoma, Xander, and all the characters you fight against on the other hand were handled really well, but they were enemies so they aren't one of yours. I am talking about the characters you control yourself.

I never said I didn't like the paralogues, I actually quite liked them, and even said that. They had some of the most interesting designed maps in the game, and gave Conquest a way to get extra XP, gold, and weapons before you get to the more difficult parts.

While reducing the marriage options would reduce the amount of options, it would theoretically improve the content of the supports. You can spend more time refining 5 supports as opposed to 20 supports for each character. And that is just for marriage options. 5 choices are plenty, and can make more sense as opposed to supports like Tharja and Frederick, which made no sense at all.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Tolvir

[Emblem Blade]

I don't know how I went off topic, all I pointed out is that if IS took the extra time to fully develop the story we could of had a story that is on par with the story telling of games like Final Fantasy 7 and Mass Effect, which are both very well written games/game series.

When I said scripted deaths on your side, I mean ones like

Kaze or Lilith because well, they had no impact. You have no attachement to Lilith due to story irrelevance, and Kaze dies out of no where, and to be honest there was no reason for his death, so it was an empty sacrifice that results in no emotional response. By the way you should really spoiler tag your stuff, not everyone has played all the routes. Ryoma, Xander, and all the characters you fight against on the other hand were handled really well, but they were enemies so they aren't one of yours. I am talking about the characters you control yourself.

I never said I didn't like the paralogues, I actually quite liked them, and even said that. They had some of the most interesting designed maps in the game, and gave Conquest a way to get extra XP, gold, and weapons before you get to the more difficult parts.

While reducing the marriage options would reduce the amount of options, it would theoretically improve the content of the supports. You can spend more time refining 5 supports as opposed to 20 supports for each character. And that is just for marriage options. 5 choices are plenty, and can make more sense as opposed to supports like Tharja and Frederick, which made no sense at all.

Off-Topic as in saying how a game should be like another game that isn't even remotely the same (FE isn't FF or ME and making compare/contrasts between them can cause some confusion for those who don't know why you're comparing/contrasting them) and I know that FF is scripted rather well for the series in general, that's what I was referring to in case I was too bland and I didn't make myself clear.

Kaze's death really wasn't needed but Lilith's makes sense as it puts a real moral challenge on Corrin's decisions. After her death, Corrin is stuck in a situation where they're losing hope to even continue fighting. In Conquest they're not as affected (Xander snaps them out of it right away) but in Birthright, they're on the verge of actually losing hope as they already lost Flora and countless other lives and losing Lilith is just too much of a burden to carry. If it weren't for Ryoma in that scene (or the game scripts by the designers), Corrin's doubts would have ended the game right there most likely in Birthright.

Ok, I thought you were showing pure distaste for the children paralogues in general (the reason behind them being in the game is rather poor, too poor which is not good). Yes, the maps and possible items you can get are nice but some of the methods ti obtain the children were just random (such as Asugi's).

I think the multiple supports in Fates is to help with more reclass options which is arguably not easily possible without multiple supports (A, A+ and S-Rank Support is needed to use the all but the Heart and DLC Seals). Awakening was too broken regarding supports and reclassing. In Fates, without supports (as many as there are), your units don't have many reclass options.

[Shadow Knight]

The bad: Skill buying is dumb

I actually disagree. Skill buying helps out the secondary characters a lot. Kamui can access a wide variety of classes and therefore skills, but the other cannot and this causes them to fall behind. Awakening was the same. Robin could solo entire maps on his own with the right skills where others fell behind. This buying system allows you to give characters like Silas and even Gunther a fighting chance, meaning everyone gets some spotlight, not just the avatar.

[Emblem Blade]

I actually disagree. Skill buying helps out the secondary characters a lot. Kamui can access a wide variety of classes and therefore skills, but the other cannot and this causes them to fall behind. Awakening was the same. Robin could solo entire maps on his own with the right skills where others fell behind. This buying system allows you to give characters like Silas and even Gunther a fighting chance, meaning everyone gets some spotlight, not just the avatar.

Ok, that makes sense for characters who actually struggle. Case in point, with the right parents, not a single unit in Awakening (bar Spotpass Paralogue units) fell behind the actual main cast (protagonists and followers) as they would have the right classes available to make them very broken. Fates was toned down so skill buying is ok for some units but not all of them who are just fine without it. Silas is fine without skill buying since he has quite a good number of options to get to A-Support for Friend/Support Seals reclassing. I can agree, Gunter can make a lot of use out of it since his growths aren't so good. Robin and Corrin don't need skill buying options for them since they already break each of their own game's difficulty by quite a lot.

Hopefully skills on Gunter that were skill bought don't transfer to his boss status in Revelation...the sight of seeing very dangerous skills on him make me shiver. Wait, he most likely (hopefully not) will have all the same skills he had prior to his boss fight equipped so...

[Tolvir]

Off-Topic as in saying how a game should be like another game that isn't even remotely the same (FE isn't FF or ME and making compare/contrasts between them can cause some confusion for those who don't know why you're comparing/contrasting them) and I know that FF is scripted rather well for the series in general, that's what I was referring to in case I was too bland and I didn't make myself clear.

Kaze's death really wasn't needed but Lilith's makes sense as it puts a real moral challenge on Corrin's decisions. After her death, Corrin is stuck in a situation where they're losing hope to even continue fighting. In Conquest they're not as affected (Xander snaps them out of it right away) but in Birthright, they're on the verge of actually losing hope as they already lost Flora and countless other lives and losing Lilith is just too much of a burden to carry. If it weren't for Ryoma in that scene (or the game scripts by the designers), Corrin's doubts would have ended the game right there most likely in Birthright.

Ok, I thought you were showing pure distaste for the children paralogues in general (the reason behind them being in the game is rather poor, too poor which is not good). Yes, the maps and possible items you can get are nice but some of the methods ti obtain the children were just random (such as Asugi's).

I think the multiple supports in Fates is to help with more reclass options which is arguably not easily possible without multiple supports (A, A+ and S-Rank Support is needed to use the all but the Heart and DLC Seals). Awakening was too broken regarding supports and reclassing. In Fates, without supports (as many as there are), your units don't have many reclass options.

I'm not even saying that Fire Emblem should be like Final Fantasy or Mass Effect, all I was saying was that if IS took their time with writing then they could of had a story on the same level as those two stories which are praised by a lot of people. All I am saying is if IS took their time, the story would of been great, and would of been something held as an example to look at for video game story telling. I don't see how someone could be confused, its put as simple as I could get with what I mean by it.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Tolvir

[Emblem Blade]

I'm not even saying that Fire Emblem should be like Final Fantasy or Mass Effect, all I was saying was that if IS took their time with writing then they could of had a story on the same level as those two stories which are praised by a lot of people. All I am saying is if IS took their time, the story would of been great, and would of been something held as an example to look at for video game story telling. I don't see how someone could be confused, its put as simple as I could get with what I mean by it.

The way how you rephrased that to me makes it more clear and yes, that would be more desirable for everyone if the story was better scripted. Before you made it sound like Fire Emblem should be like Final Fantasy and Mass Effect regarding the storyline (which as a result would make the game very non-Fire Emblem-like). I'm sorry for making you have to rephrase what you said twice to get it into my head.

[Shadow Knight]

I'm not even saying that Fire Emblem should be like Final Fantasy or Mass Effect, all I was saying was that if IS took their time with writing then they could of had a story on the same level as those two stories which are praised by a lot of people. All I am saying is if IS took their time, the story would of been great, and would of been something held as an example to look at for video game story telling. I don't see how someone could be confused, its put as simple as I could get with what I mean by it.

I agree. There are several moments in the story which are fantastic and hint at what could have been. And then there are the points that are just baffling and stupid.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The child thing was just lazy, they could have much more easily brought a lot more unity to the series by even going with something as simple as "Sometimes intense emotions between two people will allow for a special Einherjar that seems to be a very human combination of the two souls to be summoned"

Not only would that have fixed up the whole Einherjar thing from being a weird-nonplot-thing-that-no-one-ever-talks-about but you also wouldn't even need to deus ex machina in the children.

Though that would probably ruin the fan-servicey implied sex for a lot of people, but would also logically allow same-sex unions to produce units.

I feel like for all the work they put into this game, nobody ever actually sat down and thought about things.

YOOOOO i literally wouldnt mind if that premise of yours ended up happening.

And no, no one did sit down and think about things. Awakening was swiss cheese as well and it sold really really well. To the devs, that reads as "oh this still sells" and guess what, it still did. I do think the pre-release controversies are going to change whats gonna get put in FE from now on, but when it comes to the stories, im not expecting a huge bump in quality.