Rezzy Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Is Rend Heaven the best offensive proc? I haven't done any hard math on it, but it seems to do about as much extra damage as Luna and has a much better proc rate as Skill x1.5. I find Astra and Lethality to have too low of a proc rate to be as good as other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Not to put too fine a point on it but... Yes. Too bad procs are pointless postgame when you can stack well over 120 raw damage with brave weapons and no proc is reliable in game until it's late enough to not matter. It could pretty great on nhorian trust procstack breaker builds I guess. Edited March 12, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Not to put too fine a point on it but... Yes. Too bad procs are pointless postgame when you can stack well over 120 raw damage with brave weapons and no proc is reliable in game until it's late enough to not matter. It could pretty great on nhorian trust procstack breaker builds I guess. Good, I've been trying to build up a good unit logbook. I'll try to get this on as my units as I can. Does Rend Heaven go off of whether the attacking unit is using a tome or physical weapon, or whether the defending unit has a tome or physical weapon equipped to determine strength or magic for the bonus damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It goes off the attack stat period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I'd say not really - it runs off of the enemy's strength or magic stat depending on the user's weapon, which can be a problem. Edited March 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 I'd say not really - it runs off of the enemy's strength or magic stat depending on the user's weapon, which can be a problem. The player's weapon? It seems that similar to how Luna already works since magic users usually have high resistance and physicals have high defense rather than vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It's a pretty good skill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowStar77 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 My personal favorite is Dragon Fang. Rend Heaven has a high trigger rate but its damage fluctuates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) The player's weapon? It seems that similar to how Luna already works since magic users usually have high resistance and physicals have high defense rather than vice versa. Yeah, well, I would only really expect it to do much of anything if you're going physical vs physical or mage vs mage. Or going against a hybrid class. Edited March 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkArchsage Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Yeah, well, I would only really expect it to do much of anything if you're going physical vs physical or mage vs mage. Or going against a hybrid class. Yes! That's whay I don't use it and stick to Luna. My mages are always fighting physical attackers so....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Rend Heaven is clearly better than Luna for fighters. Strength is higher than Defence on a majority of enemies, and enemies with low Strength are typically physically fragile anyway so you probably don't need a skill proc. I'm less sure for mages. Not that I care much for Skill-procs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei- Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Rend Heaven steals half of the enemy's Str OR Mag based on the weapon damage you will deal to them with your current weapon. Which is the big flaw of it all \o/ It's good when it works, but it's crap, otherwise. Flats are more reliably consistent and basically just better, imo - especially for the RNG-Hell that Lunatic can be. Edited March 12, 2016 by Rei- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Sen Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Dragon Fang and Luna are more reliable, in my opinion, since they'll always get damage bonuses while it's entirely possible that Rend Heaven can be rendered completely useless (see also: when fighting Sorcerers with any physical unit or any of the physical units that have 0 Base Magic/Growth with magical units). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It's not very good on magic users. You're only going to make use of that against some Staff users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty_Handsome Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Dragon Fang is better overall. Lethality is great because Corrin can abuse it without equipping it thanks to Hoshidan Unity, Nohrian Trust and Quixotic all being easily obtainable thanks to MyCastle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Lethality is great because Corrin can abuse it without equipping it thanks to Hoshidan Unity, Nohrian Trust and Quixotic all being easily obtainable thanks to MyCastle. If we're going THAT far.... Also: >Lethality >Great That's a laugh. Lethality's a Useless Useful Skill, especially if I have to waste extra skill slots on other skills that aren't that good just to make it "useful". Edited March 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei- Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Yeah I'm not a fan of lethality either. It's unreliably hilarious, and only used as a joke, where you're praying to RNG-sama for the kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emblem Blade Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 If we're going THAT far.... Also: >Lethality >Great That's a laugh. Lethality's a Useless Useful Skill, especially if I have to waste extra skill slots on other skills that aren't that good just to make it "useful". Also Enemy Dragonskin > Player's Lethality. Lethality is one of the worst proc skills once you start nearing the endgame. Using skills that increase damage via offensive stats also means that you need to check each unit during preparations to see which enemy is best for said skills (Rend Heaven and Dragon Fang). Dragon Fang makes more sense since it's going to be based off of the damage that you're doing. Luna and to an extend Aether are great regardless because you're doing normal damage most of the time or extra heavy damage whenever it triggers. Plus Luna combined with a Brave Weapon or a Killing weapon makes you a monster since only bosses are normally exempt from critical-hits (those with either high Luck or with Divine Shield/Dragonskin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I really don't see how you can argue Luna is better than Rend Heaven on physical fighters. One adds half the enemy's Str to your damage, one adds half the enemy's Def. However, there are very few enemies who have more Def than Str (even Generals only have slightly more). The most common examples are probably pure mages like Onmyojis or Sorcerers, but those enemies are also fragile + not fast and thus easy to one-round without a skill-proc, and also don't have great Def anyway so neither skill proc will add much. Finally, Rend Heaven has a 50% better activation rate, so it's gonna be better against almost everything, certainly including Generals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emblem Blade Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I really don't see how you can argue Luna is better than Rend Heaven on physical fighters. One adds half the enemy's Str to your damage, one adds half the enemy's Def. However, there are very few enemies who have more Def than Str (even Generals only have slightly more). The most common examples are probably pure mages like Onmyojis or Sorcerers, but those enemies are also fragile + not fast and thus easy to one-round without a skill-proc, and also don't have great Def anyway so neither skill proc will add much. Finally, Rend Heaven has a 50% better activation rate, so it's gonna be better against almost everything, certainly including Generals. Did I say Luna was better than Rend Heaven on physical fighters? I was talking about damage overall when the skill triggers, so yes, Rend Heaven might be better. But which skill actually is better for when you want to do lots of damage? Say you're taking on a Malig Knight that had 70 HP, 27/27 Strength/Magic and 25/25 Defense/Resistance while using Mjolnir and Corrin has 10/60 HP and 30/30 Strength/Magic and is using a regular Silver Sword, which of the skills would do more damage if all hits were to connect and assuming a critical-hit occurred: Aether, Luna, Ignis, Dragon Fang, Rend Heaven or Vengeance? Astra isn't counted since you're doing less damage on heavily armored opponents (which happens as you get further in the game). Lethality is excluded because if it hits it guarantees to KO anything that doesn't have Divine Shield or Dragonskin, Miracle is not factored in. The enemy doesn't have Miracle, Dragonskin, Divine Shield, Pavise or Aegis equipped and is by itself, Corrin isn't using any tonics or supports and their only skill is one of the above mentioned offensive trigger skills. The stats are made-up to help simulate damage calculations. I just find that Rend Heaven isn't going to be the strongest skill possible, mainly in PvP where enemies can literally pull out some of the strangest set-ups. Edited March 12, 2016 by Emblem Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 My post was more a response to some of the comments I've seen saying Luna was better, not your post in particular, particularly the two posts which immediately followed my previous one. Though even in your post, against that hypothetical Maligknight, Luna would add 12 damage and Rend Heaven would add 13, and the latter kicks in more often. I don't see how your example in any way changes my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emblem Blade Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Ok...but even then the damage difference is slightly notable. I was giving the stats since saying an offensive proc skill is better than others without giving possible stats of both the attacker and enemy makes it hard for me to believe that there's any single strongest offensive damaging skill in-game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty_Handsome Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) If we're going THAT far.... Also: >Lethality >Great That's a laugh. Lethality's a Useless Useful Skill, especially if I have to waste extra skill slots on other skills that aren't that good just to make it "useful". You really haven't gotten far in the game, I assume. Only explanation for this distasteful comment.If your Corrin isn't aiming to be using... Nohrian Trust Hoshidan Unity Quixotic Vantage Dragonfang or Aether Paired with... Lethality Miracle Pavise Aegis Aether or Dragonfang Than you you're not striving for a one man/woman army or for the greatest Corrin that they can be. Replicate may be considered but at a severe cost to synergy. Edited March 12, 2016 by Pretty_Handsome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 You really haven't gotten far in the game, I assume. Only explanation for this distasteful comment. If your Corrin isn't aiming to be using... Nohrian Trust Hoshidan Unity Quixotic Vantage Dragonfang or Aether Paired with... Lethality Miracle Pavise Aegis Aether or Dragonfang Than you you're not striving for a one man/woman army or for the greatest Corrin that they can be. Replicate may be considered but at a severe cost to synergy. It's not - it's because Hoshidan Unity isn't very good (Rightful King wasn't very good in Awakening, why would it be good now), and Quixotic's out-and-out laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorianS Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Personally, I like Vengeance. ...though I just like that it procs all the time. Also, Rend Heaven is a very good skill. I wouldn't say it is the best, but probably up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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