The Real Disappointment (story spoilers)

[JulioRicardo]

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but I got real disappointed in the games. Prior to release I knew there would be 3 versions, and thought that each version would be unique. I was so happy because it wouldn't be like pokemon, where there are just version exclusives or whatever.

So I play through Birthright, and absolutely love it. I enjoyed the story (even though the ending seemed pretty rushed) and was excited for Conquest (Just finished Ch 23). Low and behold, I feel like it's the same dam(n) story with the exception of who's side you're on and the Conquest maps being more engaging.

It has me not excited anymore to play Revelations. This disappoints me especially considering how many teases there are between the other two versions about not getting the full story. Without spoilers, is Revelations more of the same thing, or does it feel like a new story being told?

Edited March 25, 2016 by eclipse
Mark your story spoilers, yo!

[joshcja]

It's fine, conquest has a plot twist and rev lets you jump off a bridge, and then spartan kick the rest o the cast in.

Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja

[twice]

After finishing them all... Revelation is honestly my favourite out of the three.

[Truthblade]

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but I got real disappointed in the games. Prior to release I knew there would be 3 versions, and thought that each version would be unique. I was so happy because it wouldn't be like pokemon, where there are just version exclusives or whatever.

So I play through Birthright, and absolutely love it. I enjoyed the story (even though the ending seemed pretty rushed) and was excited for Conquest (Just finished Ch 23). Low and behold, I feel like it's the same dam(n) story with the exception of who's side you're on and the Conquest maps being more engaging.

It has me not excited anymore to play Revelations. This disappoints me especially considering how many teases there are between the other two versions about not getting the full story. Without spoilers, is Revelations more of the same thing, or does it feel like a new story being told?

I know the whole story of both versions, and they don't feel the same to me at all, though they do have some parallels (Ex Azura's dances). Revelations is supposed to reveal some secrets about the other two games that they don't show, so unlike Birthright and Conquest, its not really a paralleled to them.

[Sentinel07]

Let me put this way.

You're missing A LOT if you skip out on Revelation.

[joshcja]

Yeah it's top tier writing.

Much acid was taken at IS headquarters that day.

[Tolvir]

They handled the three route split a lot better than other companies would have. As much shit as we give IS for their writing, at least they still don't try cheap underhanded tactics like EA and what happened with Battlefront. The three different routes held enough on their own for you to be able to buy one, and feel satisfied with your purchase. To give even more credit to them, they give you the ability to buy the other 2 routes at half the normal price. If this was any other company barring a few like CD Projekt Red, it would of been full price at the least.

[Rukina]

Conquest is basically the story told from Nohr's point of view. Try taking a break and reminiscing over Birthright before continuing.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Sarracenia

[Gaia]

They handled the three route split a lot better than other companies would have. As much shit as we give IS for their writing, at least they still don't try cheap underhanded tactics like EA and what happened with Battlefront.

All the DLC is on cart - they're just as scummy.

On the main point, imo if you play conquest you've already played the best part of the game. Hoshido and Revelations both felt rushed with uninspired map design (especially revelations, all the maps were repetitive and drawn out instead of encouraging tactics. Worst offender was that one stealth map). The most depressing part is how good conquest's gameplay was. It shows a lot of wasted potential that could've been fulfilled if they had been given more development time or made one game instead of 3.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Gaia

[Samias]

All the DLC is on cart - they're just as scummy.

This is why I haven't bought any DLC for the game. While the DLC offerings for Awakening certainly got better and it looks like the writing improved in 2nd season DLC in Japan, locking classes that are on the cart to DLC is plain scummy. Not to mention they have some broken abilities. People have called out EA, Capcom, and countless other companies, and people should be criticizing Nintendo, too. The price of the DLC is also outrageous for what you get in terms of production quality.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i just kinda wish we got to see the real garon at some point, i loved his design.

[Emblem Blade]

All the DLC is on cart - they're just as scummy.

On the main point, imo if you play conquest you've already played the best part of the game. Hoshido and Revelations both felt rushed with uninspired map design (especially revelations, all the maps were repetitive and drawn out instead of encouraging tactics. Worst offender was that one stealth map). The most depressing part is how good conquest's gameplay was. It shows a lot of wasted potential that could've been fulfilled if they had been given more development time or made one game instead of 3.

The only disappointment here are the players who complain about a game by saying its bad when they are equally dumb and stupid for buying said 'stupid and pathetic' game. Sure Birthright's story was lackluster and didn't have much motivation but at least the script wasn't screwed up. Conquest had a great storyline but IS made an epic mistake of ruining the characters potential. Revelations is a mix of the two and ends up having a good story with characters being overall decent, the only flaw is the huge spoilers that pop up and ruins both Birthright and Conquest if you didn't do both of them first.

[Gaia]

The only disappointment here are the players who complain about a game by saying its bad when they are equally dumb and stupid for buying said 'stupid and pathetic' game.

What? How would we know it's bad if we hadn't played it yet lmao. I came into this game thinking it would be one of my favorite FEs, and I ended up being more than disappointed. There's a lot of nuances you can't get from critics that aren't as familiar with strategy RPGs.

[Thane]

The only disappointment here are the players who complain about a game by saying its bad when they are equally dumb and stupid for buying said 'stupid and pathetic' game. Sure Birthright's story was lackluster and didn't have much motivation but at least the script wasn't screwed up. Conquest had a great storyline but IS made an epic mistake of ruining the characters potential. Revelations is a mix of the two and ends up having a good story with characters being overall decent, the only flaw is the huge spoilers that pop up and ruins both Birthright and Conquest if you didn't do both of them first.

You do realize that most people here are mainly just disappointed with the writing and some DLC aspects, right? The vast majority of people here praise the gameplay, music and other miscellaneous changes that improve the gameplay. It's possible to enjoy something and still criticize it - people wouldn't be here if they didn't care for the series.

What you're doing is getting upset at legitimate criticism, and you seem to want to brush it off. Also, what makes people dumb for buying a game they had high expectations for? I really don't see your logic.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Thane

[Emblem Blade]

You do realize that most people here are mainly just disappointed with the writing and some DLC aspects, right? The vast majority of people here praise the gameplay, music and other miscellaneous changes that improve the gameplay. It's possible to enjoy something and still criticize it - people wouldn't be here if they didn't care for the series.

What you're doing is getting upset at legitimate criticism, and you seem to want to brush it off. Also, what makes people dumb for buying a game they had high expectations for? I really don't see your logic.

Sure, I'm ok with that, the game as a whole gave the script and story holes in it that made it seem out of place in FE series but that doesn't mean that it is a disappointment compared to the previous games. Also, my attitude went sour when I heard the word 'rushed' being applied when Fates wasn't really rushed at all. I'm not one to bash a game due to minor changes compared to every other game in the home series without knowing why the changes were applied since I would end up insulting the company by saying how poor they made the game. Is that very nice? Not really, of course giving insight on what could have been changed is better than straight-out calling how 'bs and bad' the game is.

Ok, maybe I'm being vague on what I am saying here. I already got scolded before by BruceLee and Sunwoo before for not giving my reasons when I lept into a thread without thinking, I'm not doing that here. Am I saying that I'm brushing everything everyone else says off? No I am not. However, saying that the game is bad before playing it one thing. If that is the case if you watched videos of other players playing it or if you just read threads that have lots of complaints before playing and you let that sway you, then what hope do you have left on your own original thoughts? Everyone has expectations that they would like to have met, but reality doesn't always give us what we want, that's why I personally don't ride on high expectations of games that I might get in case the game really does disappoint me. I'm saying that people who complain about a game due to the issues it has need to understand that the game's designers can't just allow players to get what they want in the game, they have rights to make the game how they feel and that's that. If IS wanted Fates to be like this, then so be it, they have the full right to make a FE game that isn't as great as the predecessors.

This is off-topic (if it is), but if people really want to get their expectations completed, then why don't they just go to Japan, talk to the creators face to face and give them their ideas? Also this is a bad response but seeing how 'high' we set our expectations to, we're basically all at fault for saying the game is bad as we don't have the rights to make the game how we see fit.

[Samias]

A lot of us ARE playing the games, though. Hell, I own the special edition so I am going to work my way through all three games. But anyone who has played titles before Fates and Awakening can see a real shift in how emotional hits are handled. We've gone from simple political stories to ones that try to be too complicated and handle too much. This series has always been rooted in anime tropes, but modern anime is weighing this game down. Every chapter feels disconnected from the previous one. Characters will die and then people will quietly stop talking about it until the very end of the game. Every Fire Emblem game has characters die that the protagonist cares about but Fates seems to go the extra mile in reckless kill-offs for shock value and little else, fixing none of the criticisms from Awakening or even Radiant Dawn. The fact that we need DLC to answer the natural questions raised between characters who support because the devs didn't write an adequate support to begin with is just disappointing. Previous games weren't perfect. We've always had one note characters like Vaida, Kieran, everyone who isn't royal in Shadow Dragon, etc, and there are characters we consider boring like Roy and Eliwood, but at least they didn't try to cover the flaws with a copious amount of T&A.

At least Conquest has some really good maps as a saving grace, plus some good new/adjusted mechanics for the series as a whole, but they could have done so much in the story department and accomplished so little. And now they want additional money to get conversations that are actually meaningful.

[Noma9]

Sure, I'm ok with that, the game as a whole gave the script and story holes in it that made it seem out of place in FE series but that doesn't mean that it is a disappointment compared to the previous games. Also, my attitude went sour when I heard the word 'rushed' being applied when Fates wasn't really rushed at all. I'm not one to bash a game due to minor changes compared to every other game in the home series without knowing why the changes were applied since I would end up insulting the company by saying how poor they made the game. Is that very nice? Not really, of course giving insight on what could have been changed is better than straight-out calling how 'bs and bad' the game is.

Whether or not Fates is seen as a disappointment compared to the previous games is completely subjective. You can't definitively say they aren't or are. That's up to every individual to decide and you can't just tell people otherwise.

Ok, maybe I'm being vague on what I am saying here. I already got scolded before by BruceLee and Sunwoo before for not giving my reasons when I lept into a thread without thinking, I'm not doing that here. Am I saying that I'm brushing everything everyone else says off? No I am not. However, saying that the game is bad before playing it one thing. If that is the case if you watched videos of other players playing it or if you just read threads that have lots of complaints before playing and you let that sway you, then what hope do you have left on your own original thoughts? Everyone has expectations that they would like to have met, but reality doesn't always give us what we want, that's why I personally don't ride on high expectations of games that I might get in case the game really does disappoint me. I'm saying that people who complain about a game due to the issues it has need to understand that the game's designers can't just allow players to get what they want in the game, they have rights to make the game how they feel and that's that. If IS wanted Fates to be like this, then so be it, they have the full right to make a FE game that isn't as great as the predecessors.

I wholly agree that the developers have every right to make the game the way they want to, but freedom of expression is not freedom from criticism. And really, I doubt they made the game intending for people to think it's worse than the past games they've made. The majority of the complaints aren't even about the fact that IS subverted their original expectations, but rather that IS did a poorer job of the same things they've managed to excel at in the past. The issue is that the games tend to fail on some really basic levels and we already know that IS can do better than that, so why aren't they? You act like it's normal not to want a game to be great. We're not all so complacent to eat up whatever is fed.

This is off-topic (if it is), but if people really want to get their expectations completed, then why don't they just go to Japan, talk to the creators face to face and give them their ideas? Also this is a bad response but seeing how 'high' we set our expectations to, we're basically all at fault for saying the game is bad as we don't have the rights to make the game how we see fit.

There's so much wrong with this it hurts my brain. How very dare consumers actually have an opinion about what they buy. I don't think asking for at least the same amount of competence a developer has shown in the past is really asking for much. I think the real problem you're having isn't that we all have too high of expectations, rather that yours are just way too low. Besides, no one is saying that Fate's is terrible because it wasn't literally everything they had hoped it was. It was nothing like what I was looking forward to and I can say that I don't regret my purchase one bit. No one is denying the games credit where credit is due. People are still right to be critical about the parts that are obviously sub-par by IS's own standards.

[Emblem Blade]

Sure, I'm ok with that, the game as a whole gave the script and story holes in it that made it seem out of place in FE series but that doesn't mean that it is a disappointment compared to the previous games. Also, my attitude went sour when I heard the word 'rushed' being applied when Fates wasn't really rushed at all. I'm not one to bash a game due to minor changes compared to every other game in the home series without knowing why the changes were applied since I would end up insulting the company by saying how poor they made the game. Is that very nice? Not really, of course giving insight on what could have been changed is better than straight-out calling how 'bs and bad' the game is.

Whether or not Fates is seen as a disappointment compared to the previous games is completely subjective. You can't definitively say they aren't or are. That's up to every individual to decide and you can't just tell people otherwise.

Who said I was making people decide? Where did I say that? What I'm seeing from this game in some aspects and people can say I'm bad for having this view which is perfectly fine with me, that no one knows if IS was 'out' of ideas and decided to re-use themes from previous installments. Each and every game has its ups and downs, but this is off-topic.

Ok, maybe I'm being vague on what I am saying here. I already got scolded before by BruceLee and Sunwoo before for not giving my reasons when I lept into a thread without thinking, I'm not doing that here. Am I saying that I'm brushing everything everyone else says off? No I am not. However, saying that the game is bad before playing it one thing. If that is the case if you watched videos of other players playing it or if you just read threads that have lots of complaints before playing and you let that sway you, then what hope do you have left on your own original thoughts? Everyone has expectations that they would like to have met, but reality doesn't always give us what we want, that's why I personally don't ride on high expectations of games that I might get in case the game really does disappoint me. I'm saying that people who complain about a game due to the issues it has need to understand that the game's designers can't just allow players to get what they want in the game, they have rights to make the game how they feel and that's that. If IS wanted Fates to be like this, then so be it, they have the full right to make a FE game that isn't as great as the predecessors.

I wholly agree that the developers have every right to make the game the way they want to, but freedom of expression is not freedom from criticism. And really, I doubt they made the game intending for people to think it's worse than the past games they've made. The majority of the complaints aren't even about the fact that IS subverted their original expectations, but rather that IS did a poorer job of the same things they've managed to excel at in the past. The issue is that the games tend to fail on some really basic levels and we already know that IS can do better than that, so why aren't they? You act like it's normal not to want a game to be great. We're not all so complacent to eat up whatever is fed.

The tone and expression that we use can show how we act. I never stated that IS actually wanted their customers to see their games as lower quality compared to their better successions, I said if they wanted Fates to be the way it is then they have that right. IS has the right to make a game less stellar but it's their own fault if they do so, some of us can agree while some of us can defend them saying that it's not their fault. Again IS 'might have' run low on new ideas on making a game that didn't run on themes that possibly originated from earlier installments and they had to resort to recycling themes above other things in order to make a game.

This is off-topic (if it is), but if people really want to get their expectations completed, then why don't they just go to Japan, talk to the creators face to face and give them their ideas? Also this is a bad response but seeing how 'high' we set our expectations to, we're basically all at fault for saying the game is bad as we don't have the rights to make the game how we see fit.

There's so much wrong with this it hurts my brain. How very dare consumers actually have an opinion about what they buy. I don't think asking for at least the same amount of competence a developer has shown in the past is really asking for much. I think the real problem you're having isn't that we all have too high of expectations, rather that yours are just way too low. Besides, no one is saying that Fate's is terrible because it wasn't literally everything they had hoped it was. It was nothing like what I was looking forward to and I can say that I don't regret my purchase one bit. No one is denying the games credit where credit is due. People are still right to be critical about the parts that are obviously sub-par by IS's own standards.

Having high expectations of something can possibly lead to some critical disappointment when those wishes don't take place, that's why I normally don't set my expectations high unless it is for a something very important that actually affects my life. I don't place my high expectations on gaming and what games should have since both of them don't really do so much as give me some form of entertainment. If people have high expectations for games and etc., ok, I'll accept that they do and that I have no right to trample on their dreams. Besides, no one is saying that Fate's is terrible because it wasn't literally everything they had hoped it was. There are some people on Fate's Forums whose distaste for the game are quite close but not exactly there to what you are saying isn't true. Being critical about the downside to a company's game is fine with me, these types of incidents aren't rare, saying that the company failed to make the game 'proper' when we have no idea what took place during the days it was being made is what sets me off and even makes me feel really stupid.

You also don't have to believe that I actually feel upset and sorry for those who are being harmed by what I say when I'm not trying to be disrespectful but instead trying to give my view and opinion off from what other people say. I know that what I say is more likely to start an argument when it's not supposed to and that's something that is out of my control since I can't predict how people respond to what I say.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Sieghart]

The only disappointment is the male avatar ending In Revelation with his wife, the Female avatar have Unique ending with his husband and that is unfair for the male avatar users.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Sieghart

[Gaia]

Sure, I'm ok with that, the game as a whole gave the script and story holes in it that made it seem out of place in FE series but that doesn't mean that it is a disappointment compared to the previous games. Also, my attitude went sour when I heard the word 'rushed' being applied when Fates wasn't really rushed at all. I'm not one to bash a game due to minor changes compared to every other game in the home series without knowing why the changes were applied since I would end up insulting the company by saying how poor they made the game. Is that very nice? Not really, of course giving insight on what could have been changed is better than straight-out calling how 'bs and bad' the game is.

Fates was rushed. Look at it on a timescale. Development only began for the game when Awakening did well, so we can assume that's around mid to late 2013. This game released in June in 2015. That's barely 2 years of development for 3 games. This would have been sufficient had it been a single game, since the engine was reused from Awakening, but it just wasn't for 3. The game had a lot of potential that was squandered due to the whole 3 game premise.

Ok, maybe I'm being vague on what I am saying here. I already got scolded before by BruceLee and Sunwoo before for not giving my reasons when I lept into a thread without thinking, I'm not doing that here. Am I saying that I'm brushing everything everyone else says off? No I am not. However, saying that the game is bad before playing it one thing. If that is the case if you watched videos of other players playing it or if you just read threads that have lots of complaints before playing and you let that sway you, then what hope do you have left on your own original thoughts? Everyone has expectations that they would like to have met, but reality doesn't always give us what we want, that's why I personally don't ride on high expectations of games that I might get in case the game really does disappoint me. I'm saying that people who complain about a game due to the issues it has need to understand that the game's designers can't just allow players to get what they want in the game, they have rights to make the game how they feel and that's that. If IS wanted Fates to be like this, then so be it, they have the full right to make a FE game that isn't as great as the predecessors.

I think you're missing one big thing here - I didn't want the game to be bad. None of us wanted the game to be bad. But it was. It's not like my arguments are unfounded either, and I recognize that the game does have its merits. But like others have stated, it tried too hard to appeal to a larger crowd and ended up falling short on all ends. What you're saying here is that it's ok for a game to be bad as long as you don't expect anything in the first place. What kind of bullshit logic is that? You're just letting them get away with whatever they want. Newsflash, a developer's vision isn't always a good thing.

This is off-topic (if it is), but if people really want to get their expectations completed, then why don't they just go to Japan, talk to the creators face to face and give them their ideas? Also this is a bad response but seeing how 'high' we set our expectations to, we're basically all at fault for saying the game is bad as we don't have the rights to make the game how we see fit.

lmao are you trolling?

[Thane]

Sure, I'm ok with that, the game as a whole gave the script and story holes in it that made it seem out of place in FE series but that doesn't mean that it is a disappointment compared to the previous games. Also, my attitude went sour when I heard the word 'rushed' being applied when Fates wasn't really rushed at all. I'm not one to bash a game due to minor changes compared to every other game in the home series without knowing why the changes were applied since I would end up insulting the company by saying how poor they made the game. Is that very nice? Not really, of course giving insight on what could have been changed is better than straight-out calling how 'bs and bad' the game is.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. First of all, how do you know Fates wasn't rushed, or at least several aspects of it? In the Iwata Asks interview, they say that Kibayashi wrote 1500 pages as opposed to 10; however, this was a rough draft, and we don't know if they had time to properly go through everything, make necessary changes to better fit the flow of the game, etc. However, what is undeniable are the loose plot threads that are left hanging especially after Conquest, which rightly gives many people a bad impression of the story, and the feeling that it has been rushed - I've got no proof for this, but I believe large chunks of the story were removed late into development due to Intelligent Systems wanting to entice people to buy Revelation. It would fit with the commercials saying that it was about a revolution, and it would explain why that path more so than any other is reliant on plot conveniences.

Secondly, why would we care about "being nice"? Intelligent Systems and Nintendo are two companies that are trying to make a profit. We bought one of their products, and while most of us are happy with our purchase, we still critique it because it's not as good as it could have been. Given that they've shown to actually read fan feedback, I'd even go so far to say it's important to give your opinion if you want to have a chance of affecting the next installment. Besides, this is a platform for discussion; forums wouldn't be a thing if people were only interested in agreeing on positive things.

Thirdly, I've seen very few people - if any at all - calling this a bad game without specifying why they thought so. You seem to willfully ignore all those threads and literally thousands of posts detailing what they didn't like and why.

Ok, maybe I'm being vague on what I am saying here. I already got scolded before by BruceLee and Sunwoo before for not giving my reasons when I lept into a thread without thinking, I'm not doing that here. Am I saying that I'm brushing everything everyone else says off? No I am not. However, saying that the game is bad before playing it one thing. If that is the case if you watched videos of other players playing it or if you just read threads that have lots of complaints before playing and you let that sway you, then what hope do you have left on your own original thoughts? Everyone has expectations that they would like to have met, but reality doesn't always give us what we want, that's why I personally don't ride on high expectations of games that I might get in case the game really does disappoint me. I'm saying that people who complain about a game due to the issues it has need to understand that the game's designers can't just allow players to get what they want in the game, they have rights to make the game how they feel and that's that. If IS wanted Fates to be like this, then so be it, they have the full right to make a FE game that isn't as great as the predecessors.

Again, where are all the people calling it a bad game? Why can't they criticize the story if they've read it just by watching videos? The script doesn't change and their opinions aren't invalid if they've read the same thing you have. Sure people can be affected by complaints, but don't you see the flaw in your reasoning here? Shouldn't they then be equally susceptible to having their opinion affected by praise?

You seem to think you know a lot of what happened behind the scenes of Intelligent Systems; how do you know that this is the final product they wanted to make? What if they were rushed? What if the writing staff couldn't agree with the bigwigs and marketing team, and thus had to change several aspects of it? We could speculate all day long, but in the end we'll only ever find out if they decide to tell us why the game turned out the way it did. What's important to keep in mind is that people are criticizing the game as it is now; we don't pull any punches because it could have been great - if anything, that makes us more upset.

Once more, I'm having trouble seeing the point you're trying to make. "I don't have high expectations because reality doesn't always give us what we want, and a developer's vision of the game is more important than pleasing the consumer" - I don't see what any of this has to do with the legitimate criticism against Fates. Should we just stop speaking or minds? Is the developer always right? You'll have to explain yourself better because I simply don't know how to address your arguments.

This is off-topic (if it is), but if people really want to get their expectations completed, then why don't they just go to Japan, talk to the creators face to face and give them their ideas? Also this is a bad response but seeing how 'high' we set our expectations to, we're basically all at fault for saying the game is bad as we don't have the rights to make the game how we see fit.

This is so stupid on so many levels that I can only assume you're joking.

[MitoRequiem]

I personally feel like this game was a step in the right direction in terms of gameplay... as far as Conquest goes, Conquest really showed the potential of how amazing the map design could be.

Also I find it funny people thought durability removal would make the game braindead(Hello! This isn't the first Fire Emblem game without it!!! Okay I know a small percentage as played FE2 let me have this ;~;)

The story is ehhhh honestly, but I usually don't expect much from Fire Emblem stories a lot of things in these games just don't make any sense to me. One thing with this game I'd like to point out is the whole "AZURA WHO WAS THAT DANCER ON STAGE xD???" by Corrin but I think that was brought up several times by several members but man oh man do I gotta bring it up again lol.

To answer your question!! I think you should play Revelations I personally find the Map design the weakest out of the 3, However story wise it answers a ton of questions that BIrthright and Conquest didn't. Also if you plan to play future DLC gotta get all the characters!!!(Assuming the DLC after this won't be all pre-made characters)

[Emblem Blade]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. First of all, how do you know Fates wasn't rushed, or at least several aspects of it? In the Iwata Asks interview, they say that Kibayashi wrote 1500 pages as opposed to 10; however, this was a rough draft, and we don't know if they had time to properly go through everything, make necessary changes to better fit the flow of the game, etc. However, what is undeniable are the loose plot threads that are left hanging especially after Conquest, which rightly gives many people a bad impression of the story, and the feeling that it has been rushed - I've got no proof for this, but I believe large chunks of the story were removed late into development due to Intelligent Systems wanting to entice people to buy Revelation. It would fit with the commercials saying that it was about a revolution, and it would explain why that path more so than any other is reliant on plot conveniences.

Secondly, why would we care about "being nice"? Intelligent Systems and Nintendo are two companies that are trying to make a profit. We bought one of their products, and while most of us are happy with our purchase, we still critique it because it's not as good as it could have been. Given that they've shown to actually read fan feedback, I'd even go so far to say it's important to give your opinion if you want to have a chance of affecting the next installment. Besides, this is a platform for discussion; forums wouldn't be a thing if people were only interested in agreeing on positive things.

Thirdly, I've seen very few people - if any at all - calling this a bad game without specifying why they thought so. You seem to willfully ignore all those threads and literally thousands of posts detailing what they didn't like and why.

Again, where are all the people calling it a bad game? Why can't they criticize the story if they've read it just by watching videos? The script doesn't change and their opinions aren't invalid if they've read the same thing you have. Sure people can be affected by complaints, but don't you see the flaw in your reasoning here? Shouldn't they then be equally susceptible to having their opinion affected by praise?

You seem to think you know a lot of what happened behind the scenes of Intelligent Systems; how do you know that this is the final product they wanted to make? What if they were rushed? What if the writing staff couldn't agree with the bigwigs and marketing team, and thus had to change several aspects of it? We could speculate all day long, but in the end we'll only ever find out if they decide to tell us why the game turned out the way it did. What's important to keep in mind is that people are criticizing the game as it is now; we don't pull any punches because it could have been great - if anything, that makes us more upset.

Once more, I'm having trouble seeing the point you're trying to make. "I don't have high expectations because reality doesn't always give us what we want, and a developer's vision of the game is more important than pleasing the consumer" - I don't see what any of this has to do with the legitimate criticism against Fates. Should we just stop speaking or minds? Is the developer always right? You'll have to explain yourself better because I simply don't know how to address your arguments.

This is so stupid on so many levels that I can only assume you're joking.

Even if Fates was rushed, it is not a game that is devastated for the creators bringing it up for sales when the content as lost some/most of its potential. Loose plotholes that show up? That is not new to the FE series or any series that ends up having sequels. Games will have plotholes one way or another, that's unavoidable even though plotholes can ruin the story if too many are present. If what you said about the rough draft is true and that the final draft might have been cut by a lot, the game is still better than it is worse overall.

I'm fine with the games that Nintendo has released, even when the content seems to have degraded compared to anything before it I don't see it has bad but that is me personally and the view of others is up to them and I have no right to tell them otherwise. What I tend to see on threads that somewhat fall on the title 'What could have been' is more negative talk than positive talk most of the time. It's easier for the negative atmosphere to spread because people can easily think of why the game is bad than what has made it good. I'm ok seeing people give opinions that are overall gloomy, it's needed but if a thread goes downhill by mentioning only the failures of a game, then the game 'looks' overall more like crap than it is.

I never stated entirely that most of the people on forums say that the game is bad without giving reasons. I said that there are some people on forums who come close to saying the game is very close to being bad even with justified reasons and proof from their own experiences. If people want to let videos of games that others post up sway their view on the game before they even play it and let that influence them ok, I'll just accept that and shut up so that they can have those views. I just don't see how that is too 'decent' since it may make a person's view fall short of what the game possibly could have before they even play it.

No, I have no idea what Intelligent Systems has up their minds. I never will know and that is something that I have no absolute right to ask for. There could be several reasons if not a few good causes for why IS didn't make Fates as good as they could easily have done so but as you just replied for once, we have no ability to know those reasons unless they told us and thinking too much into it won't help anyone. So far no one really up to now has even bothered to guess what those reasons were and most of us have just made criticizing comments without taking into any possible reason IS had in mind into the formula. It doesn't hurt to defend IS in a post even if what they have done is disagreeable. IS most likely did something bad during the final editing of Fates and it causes some discomfort among those who play it but is that final edit in the long run so bad? Or are we seeing it as poor in the short run as it is now.

*What's important to keep in mind is that people are criticizing the game as it is now; we don't pull any punches because it could have been great - if anything, that makes us more upset.

That is what is happening when we start to criticize games, we start pulling punches when we get too far and end up saying how the game could be better. In the end that makes us upset and we don't sometimes know it before we go and continue criticizing the game before we realize where we currently are. I can agree with what you're saying Thane, but not everyone shares the same views and that causes issues between everyone since we can't easily agree or understand one another. Such as right now.

I never said that others can't speak their minds. But speaking if we speak our minds without understanding the possible causes for the case that is being represented doesn't make us look any better than we started out to be. No, the creators aren't always right even though they make the games. Ignoring the expectations part, the developers in the end make the game's final touches. If the developers made a game solely off of the consumer's review, who would have all the credit for said game? Do you get what I'm saying with that question because that's what my original post was asking for. My original post was asking this simple question which sometimes isn't as easy to understand:

'Who makes the game? If the game was created by the consumer's opinions then where would all the credit go to?

I'm not trying to point out that everyone not named myself is in the wrong, if that were so I would like everyone else to get the Admins so they can remove me from forums. I just see so much on 'The game is screwed up because of this and that' without seeing any possible reasons that point out what the designers possibly felt during the final stages of the game. Perhaps the reason why you have a hard time understanding me Thane and why I can't easily understand you or the others is that I'm no longer just applying how Fates was handled into the situation alone, I'm also taking in cases in real life where similar arguments come up and there is no outside support on why the argument's topic took place.

[Gaia]

All I got out of that was that you don't like bad things being side about something you like. You're not even denying that Fates was disappointing; you're just saying we should accept that and move on because consumers aren't allowed to have expectations, I guess.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Gaia

[Emblem Blade]

All I got out of that was that you don't like bad things being side about something you like. You're not even denying that Fates was disappointing; you're just saying we should accept that and move on because consumers aren't allowed to have expectations, I guess.

Well, that's just about correct. I don't mind the bad things about a game as long as the game itself can provide people with content that's sufficient enough to make them happy. The first part is correct, the second part is close. Consumers are allowed to have expectations and they should be allowed to have expectations, but if we were to see that expectations don't always get met then we should be prepared for anything that could disappoint us so we don't lose ourselves if what we get (Fates in this case) isn't what we had expected. This is something that we sometimes struggle with and something that is at times not considered when we let our expectations control who we are instead of us controlling our expectations.

While I don't know how you or anyone else feels and I really don't want to press so hard to do so since I'm invading the personal space of other people, the higher expectations I place on what I see and desire might end up causing me to lose myself even more than if I just had normally average standards on what I want should be. Essentially, by my own expectations it is this: Ok, so it isn't what I had wanted but I have it and I'm happy. I can live with what I have without wanting more out of it. If I want more from it than I'm being too picky about what it isn't and I'm not accepting what I have. That viewpoint of mine isn't a good one and I often betray it since it's hard for me to be happy with what I have.